4.4 and no class''Balance''

[Floplag]

Agreed Floplag. It's so ridiculous these days that PvP isn't even something I enjoy right now...it used to be the first thing I'd do every night and the last thing I'd do...not now.

 

I've been finding myself doing a lot more PvE than i had in literally a year or more. I'm to the point where im almost considering finding a good PvE guild over looking for anything in PvP. Maybe get back into raiding again, IDK something.

[alexsamma]

You are smarter than this... We had a whole thread on this last week where i posted all the numbers at that time and the discrepancy was horrific. A 5 minute search of the leaderboards now tells and even darker tale...

 

There are 173 Sorcs at or above 1600 in solo queue, compared to 17 Mercs and 33 Sniper/GS. For the math impaired that a 10-1 differential.

Theere are 93 players in team ranked with 1600 or better.

In team ranked its 23, 1, and 7.

One darn Merc/Mando over 1600 in team ranked.... ONE!

This is your argument? That because there is ONE, that they are fine? oh and 1 is not even "multiple".

 

You are either trolling, ignorant, or both, either way your view is invalid, incorrect, and blatantly wrong.

 

At no point did I say that mercs or snipers were strong in solo queue, if you go back a few posts I actually point out that mercs are weak in solo queue, but I blatantly disagree with you that all players who play mercs in solo queue are "told to re-roll;" both classes are capable of succeeding in solo ranked in the hands of a good player/

 

The team ranked pool is extremely small, and you're going to see a ton of powertechs and sorcs because two of the FOTM comps are PT tank, AP PT, Anni Mara, Sorc healer and PT Tank, AP PT, Sorc dps (with bubble stun), Sorc healer (with bubble stun), the double pt ranged is counter to double pt anni, but given how tanky the comps are when two equally skilled teams fight there is a good chance that the game will go to acid so sorcs are generally taken over mercs and snipers. Group ranked has been suffering from double carbonize cancer since 3.0 dropped and has become more prevalent as more and more experienced groups capable of countering the setup have drifted away from the game (hard swap can win, but it takes a lot of coordination and experience, something that newer/less experienced teams lack).

 

No one is arguing that mercs are the alpha dps, especially in solo ranked, but they're as bad as you make them out to be.

[Jake_Chambers]

Mercenaries are excellent in regs and group ranked. As for solo ranked, that's hardly a game mode balance should be based on. The problem of merc being targeted first is a solo ranked problem, as group ranked players have guards and heals while in regs playing a ranged class with some manner of healing and mobility is pretty strong. It's quite squishy, but then again you can unload terrific burst onto a target from 30m. I'm sorry it's been less fun for you, but the spec has been so good in my experience. Edited May 3, 2016 by Jake_Chambers

[Jadescythe]

Mercenaries are excellent in regs and group ranked. As for solo ranked, that's hardly a game mode balance should be based on. The problem of merc being targeted first is a solo ranked problem, as group ranked players have guards and heals while in regs playing a ranged class with some manner of healing and mobility is pretty strong. It's quite squishy, but then again you can unload terrific burst onto a target from 30m. I'm sorry it's been less fun for you, but the spec has been so good in my experience.

 

I'm in agreement with this. The majority of complaints come from solo players playing a class that is more reliant on a team than other classes. I also don't think we see the same number of complaints (or Sorcs for that matter) if Sorc immunity bubble is replaced by a more traditional DCD.

[Lalainnia]

Stop saying mercs please, yes 2 other specs exist. Arsena/Gunnery is fine and has always been the least fugly duckling out of the fugly duckling group of the 3 merc specs. As for the kiting factor of mercs in general it varies heavily, as arsenal it depends if you're actively hitting a target with blazing bolts/boltstorm or netted the person trying to eat u alive. Outside of those we don't actually move faster than anyone aka the other 2 specs realistically suck at kiting.

 

 

IQ and Assault they have literally nothing special over arsenal anymore even its rng threat drop is worse in the past they used to be able to cleanse themselves and gain 30% periodic DR for 12 secs. They even used to pump out more overall dps with all dots running etc. Now all they have is operative tier dotspread and very annoying heat/ammo management limiting overall deepz.

 

Bodyguard/Combat medics just outright lose in comparison of what they're trying to compete agasint not even kings and queens of burst anymore.

 

So it's just Arsenal that does well and that's largely due to the fact that it somehow avoided the mass surge nerf to dps specs across all classes/specs

[Lhancelot]

The biggest problem with mercs being good in regs, awful in solo ranked, and "viable" in group ranked is that let's be honest... 1% of the pvpers play group ranked. No matter the reasons, that's how it is.

 

As a merc trying to hit a high rating fair and square is next to impossible. Unless you are a merc with a great team in group ranked, or, you are some kind of amazing pvp master that has inhuman skills that propel you through solo ranked with wins.

 

Chances are as a merc you are going to have crappy rating, and have a crappy time in solo ranked pvp.

 

Yes, in regs mercs are actually quite good. Not the best or most popular of the fotm classes, but decent.

 

The reason people would be especially angry about mercs in solo ranked now is because season 7 is in effect and mercs gimp their teams and simply are NOT viable in solo ranked where communication, and excellent group support is needed for them to succeed.

 

As for a merc doing fine in solo ranked, and it only being a matter of skill... I honestly have to disagree. I like to think i am above average on my merc, and in solo ranked I found nothing but total frustration on the class.

 

I'd say it takes someone with siginificant, no, AWESOME skill level to take a merc and do well in solo ranked, I would enjoy watching such a merc in action, particularly against the army of juggs, marauders, and PTs that are in the matches.

[Floplag]

At no point did I say that mercs or snipers were strong in solo queue, if you go back a few posts I actually point out that mercs are weak in solo queue, but I blatantly disagree with you that all players who play mercs in solo queue are "told to re-roll;" both classes are capable of succeeding in solo ranked in the hands of a good player/

 

The team ranked pool is extremely small, and you're going to see a ton of powertechs and sorcs because two of the FOTM comps are PT tank, AP PT, Anni Mara, Sorc healer and PT Tank, AP PT, Sorc dps (with bubble stun), Sorc healer (with bubble stun), the double pt ranged is counter to double pt anni, but given how tanky the comps are when two equally skilled teams fight there is a good chance that the game will go to acid so sorcs are generally taken over mercs and snipers. Group ranked has been suffering from double carbonize cancer since 3.0 dropped and has become more prevalent as more and more experienced groups capable of countering the setup have drifted away from the game (hard swap can win, but it takes a lot of coordination and experience, something that newer/less experienced teams lack).

 

No one is arguing that mercs are the alpha dps, especially in solo ranked, but they're as bad as you make them out to be.

 

You made the statement "Yet both classes have multiple 1600+ players and are strong in team ranked.", this statement is wrong. You cannot use the hypothetical to prove a point when the facts say otherwise.

 

I HAVE been told to re-roll, Its one of the reasons i quit ranked. Heck ive been told to re-roll, uninstall, molest my dead mother, draw a map to Hades, and figure out how to have intercourse with myself, and that was just last night.

 

All the things you said above are accurate, but that says nothing about why Mercs (and Snipers) are lacking. I'll concede that it could be a partial by product of others things, that could well be true and makes logical sense, but it still doenst change the facts that we are where we are and it needs to change.

[Floplag]

Stop saying mercs please, yes 2 other specs exist. Arsena/Gunnery is fine and has always been the least fugly duckling out of the fugly duckling group of the 3 merc specs. As for the kiting factor of mercs in general it varies heavily, as arsenal it depends if you're actively hitting a target with blazing bolts/boltstorm or netted the person trying to eat u alive. Outside of those we don't actually move faster than anyone aka the other 2 specs realistically suck at kiting.

 

 

IQ and Assault they have literally nothing special over arsenal anymore even its rng threat drop is worse in the past they used to be able to cleanse themselves and gain 30% periodic DR for 12 secs. They even used to pump out more overall dps with all dots running etc. Now all they have is operative tier dotspread and very annoying heat/ammo management limiting overall deepz.

 

Bodyguard/Combat medics just outright lose in comparison of what they're trying to compete agasint not even kings and queens of burst anymore.

 

So it's just Arsenal that does well and that's largely due to the fact that it somehow avoided the mass surge nerf to dps specs across all classes/specs

 

We all suffer from the same lack of effective DCD. There is little difference in that regard. I've played all 3 specs, all three have the same concern.

Healing Mercs have other worse issues in that they are simply not as effective as other healers in addition to weak DCD, which amplifies the issue.

[Jake_Chambers]

Stop saying mercs please, yes 2 other specs exist. Arsena/Gunnery is fine and has always been the least fugly duckling out of the fugly duckling group of the 3 merc specs. As for the kiting factor of mercs in general it varies heavily, as arsenal it depends if you're actively hitting a target with blazing bolts/boltstorm or netted the person trying to eat u alive. Outside of those we don't actually move faster than anyone aka the other 2 specs realistically suck at kiting.

 

 

IQ and Assault they have literally nothing special over arsenal anymore even its rng threat drop is worse in the past they used to be able to cleanse themselves and gain 30% periodic DR for 12 secs. They even used to pump out more overall dps with all dots running etc. Now all they have is operative tier dotspread and very annoying heat/ammo management limiting overall deepz.

 

Bodyguard/Combat medics just outright lose in comparison of what they're trying to compete agasint not even kings and queens of burst anymore.

 

So it's just Arsenal that does well and that's largely due to the fact that it somehow avoided the mass surge nerf to dps specs across all classes/specs

 

Mercs move faster than their targets. Spamming a 70% slow with blazing bolts is pretty good and io have a base slow on its fire dot.

 

As for IO, that's one of my favorite specs. Unlike arsenal, with supercharge this spec completely annihilates tanks and other high armor targets. It's phenomenal. You can still spec into dot dmg reduction (though I normally don't) and that threat drop skill is much better than arsenals one when you have heavy focus. And for the record, no class has dot spread as bad as lethality. Yes, it's two moves, but they're both 30m and have reasonable sizes. A melee tiny cone is far far worse. As for healing, yes, healing needs to be addressed as the main balance issue at this time.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Jake_Chambers

[Lalainnia]

We all suffer from the same lack of effective DCD. There is little difference in that regard. I've played all 3 specs, all three have the same concern.

Healing Mercs have other worse issues in that they are simply not as effective as other healers in addition to weak DCD, which amplifies the issue.

 

No its not a suffering from a dcd issue Mercs can survive now while it's lacking we can actually stay alive to have a significant impact. No merc should ever be getting killed extremely fast unless they mess up their cd order or get stuck in a very uneven match.

[Lalainnia]

Mercs move faster than their targets. Spamming a 70% slow with blazing bolts is pretty good and io have a base slow on its fire dot.

 

As for IO, that's one of my favorite specs. Unlike arsenal, with supercharge this spec completely annihilates tanks and other high armor targets. It's phenomenal. You can still spec into dot dmg reduction (though I normally don't) and that threat drop skill is much better than arsenals one when you have heavy focus. And for the record, no class has dot spread as bad as lethality. Yes, it's two moves, but they're both 30m and have reasonable sizes. A melee tiny cone is far far worse. As for healing, yes, healing needs to be addressed as the main balance issue at this time.

 

That 70 % slow is only useful and realistic in a 1v1 which in themselves are rare or start out fair, funny enough its better for chasing over running away . IQs slow is trash at 30% and everyone knows it sure you can spread it if u manage to pull it off.. Yes........ the spec that takes the longest to build supercharge and has base crappy internal/elemental damage to begin with, any other dot spec will have a far easier and better time "melting" a non shadow tank over IQ unless ur a pyrotech. As for the suit foe talent that is my point IQ lost one of its special talents and now its put into the utility points section with nothing in exchange. It is just as bad as leth because it cannot be used in quick succession carbine burst has no cd. As for the threat drop yup that's very true its way better under heavy focus fire.

[Jake_Chambers]

That 70 % slow is only useful and realistic in a 1v1 which in themselves are rare or start out fair, funny enough its better for chasing over running away . IQs slow is trash at 30% and everyone knows it sure you can spread it if u manage to pull it off.. Yes........ the spec that takes the longest to build supercharge and has base crappy internal/elemental damage to begin with, any other dot spec will have a far easier and better time "melting" a non shadow tank over IQ unless ur a pyrotech. As for the suit foe talent that is my point IQ lost one of its special talents and now its put into the utility points section with nothing in exchange. It is just as bad as leth because it cannot be used in quick succession carbine burst has no cd. As for the threat drop yup that's very true its way better under heavy focus fire.

 

You claimed mercs moved at the same speed as everyone else, I'm just pointing out the two slows, one which is very potent and has limited up time and the other significant one which has constant up time. While you may claim that a constant, no cd, spreadable 30% slow is bad, I would have to contend that it's saved me multiple times when used in conjunction with kiting.

 

As for the supercharge build up,it would be very unbalanced if such an insane damage boost was up more frequently. Tanks in particular should not be nuked as they are with it (they should also do less damage, but that's neither her nor there). And your comment about pyrotech behind bad at killing tanks is wrong. Pyrotech, being an aoe elemental spec melts tanks when you cleave with flame tower on a guarded target and the tank it self. It's pretty crazy and very fun.

 

Alot of specs in the game gave up individual tree buffs and put them into utilities, Veng jugg have it worse, they have to spend an extra point for a properly buffed leap, other wise they'll be knocked back. That really sucks, more so than the dot reduction.

 

I'm not even going to go into how abysmally awful lethalitys dot spread is

Edited May 3, 2016 by Jake_Chambers

[Coldsunrise]

Sure but:

mercs//mandos die just as fast as vg/pt in yolo under focused fire.

sorcs/sages were "omg fotm" at the beginning of the season, now people know how to deal with them effectively. basically, push them, fight next to their phase walks and don't eat dot from spread, their offhealing can be real problem but then again, people know what to expect and they just keep stunning sorcs/sages. If you put a sent and shadow on one sorc they will melt fast, speed buff + shadow's control can do wonders. I've seen many good players die fast. Still good sorc can take a lot of damage - but as I said before, many players know how to deal with them now. Also the bubble doesnt work on acid anymore so happy days.

Going back to mando - any focused class dies fast, the deal is to do enough dmg so you die little bit later than your enemy, mando can do that with little bit of support (aoe stuns, speed buffs, pull) enet-->burn-->die = u can really make the difference. Mando doesn't need much - maybe an immunity against stuns after using a stun breaker for 6s or something along those lines.

 

Peace

[Lalainnia]

You claimed mercs moved at the same speed as everyone else, I'm just pointing out the two slows, one which is very potent and has limited up time and the other significant one which has constant up time. While you may claim that a constant, no cd, spreadable 30% slow is bad, I would have to contend that it's saved me multiple times when used in conjunction with kiting.

 

As for the supercharge build up,it would be very unbalanced if such an insane damage boost was up more frequently. Tanks in particular should not be nuked as they are with it (they should also do less damage, but that's neither her nor there). And your comment about pyrotech behind bad at killing tanks is wrong. Pyrotech, being an aoe elemental spec melts tanks when you cleave with flame tower on a guarded target and the tank it self. It's pretty crazy and very fun.

 

Alot of specs in the game gave up individual tree buffs and put them into utilities, Veng jugg have it worse, they have to spend an extra point for a properly buffed leap, other wise they'll be knocked back. That really sucks, more so than the dot reduction.

 

I'm not even going to go into how abysmally awful lethalitys dot spread is

 

Are you basing stuff off of the past or something pyro tech can't even match the levels of old AP silly tanks in dps gear do more damage with firestorm..

 

Nice to know a crappy 30% slow has actually saved your life that's news to me.

 

I'm not exactly sure what patch your living in but IQs dot damage is nothing amazing since it got nerfed and lost its surge on dots.

 

As for veng juggs, please explain how its worse to spend an extra point in the skill full tier instead of masterful tier.

[Jake_Chambers]

Are you basing stuff off of the past or something pyro tech can't even match the levels of old AP silly tanks in dps gear do more damage with firestorm..

 

Nice to know a crappy 30% slow has actually saved your life that's news to me.

 

I'm not exactly sure what patch your living in but IQs dot damage is nothing amazing since it got nerfed and lost its surge on dots.

 

As for veng juggs, please explain how its worse to spend an extra point in the skill full tier instead of masterful tier.

 

Flame thrower is hardly the end all be all of pyrotech, the spec has so much elemental damage outside of flame thrower. Fire storm might do more damage but all the other elemental damage allows the spec to decisively pull ahead. Further more, it on average does more damage than death field while applying a massive snare that allows for stacking aoe from others and it spreads a dot. If you can't see why that's not effective against guard then nothing I say will..

 

Secondly, playing as a melee class with a thirty percent slow is very annoying, and it increases the effectiveness of kiting. So yes. It does help. I don't see why you're so opposed to the idea that slowing your target by a third is a BAD thing, but whatever.

 

And IO lost its surge before 4.0 on dots. It's nothing new. They were, and still are, fine, partly because A) alot of damage comes from unload, Mag shot, etc. And B) they have a passive 10% surge on ALL abilities, almost as much as rage and fury, because the dots maintain up time on that.

 

And yes, it's more annoying on veng, because force charge cd reduction and ravage root are common choices for regs. But say you want to increase your aoe dramatically by taking the aoe boost (which is further buffed in veng spec on bleeding targets) or the reduced stun break cd. You really can't. It's much more painful than giving up a silly little dot protection on a skill I save for cleansing roots and stuns, especially because my merc dies far more often from burst rather than a piddly dot.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Jake_Chambers

[kweassa]

So, not only did a balance thread turn up another merc/mando debate, now there are differing opinions about the 3 disciplines available... so it's not even about a single advanced class, but rather about three sub-categories of that class.

 

So which of you should the devs listen to when they decide to do something about merc/mandos?

 

...

 

Thanks everyone for proving the point. All subjective feelings, opinions, and anecdotes but no solid ground or basis to start balancing a class. If I were in the devs shoes, I wouldn't touch balance either, if things are like this.

[Jake_Chambers]

So, not only did a balance thread turn up another merc/mando debate, now there are differing opinions about the 3 disciplines available... so it's not even about a single advanced class, but rather about three sub-categories of that class.

 

So which of you should the devs listen to when they decide to do something about merc/mandos?

 

...

 

Thanks everyone for proving the point. All subjective feelings, opinions, and anecdotes but no solid ground or basis to start balancing a class. If I were in the devs shoes, I wouldn't touch balance either, if things are like this.

 

Exactly. Balance is in a good place aside from heals

[Lalainnia]

Never said anything about balance being bad some was stating that arsenal is the only merc spec that can do very well and has the least shortcommings out of the 3 merc specs because ppl keep stating mercs as a class were fine.

 

 

if there was any balance checks to be made 3 key super easy things to focus on

 

-Sorc healing-resource management

-Bodyguard- output/resource management

-Carbonize lockout

[Lhancelot]

So, not only did a balance thread turn up another merc/mando debate, now there are differing opinions about the 3 disciplines available... so it's not even about a single advanced class, but rather about three sub-categories of that class.

 

So which of you should the devs listen to when they decide to do something about merc/mandos?

 

...

 

Thanks everyone for proving the point. All subjective feelings, opinions, and anecdotes but no solid ground or basis to start balancing a class. If I were in the devs shoes, I wouldn't touch balance either, if things are like this.

 

Naturally I feel they should listen to me. Let me elaborate!

 

I don't even bring up merc heals. Everyone agrees the class is abysmal in pvp, particuarly any form of ranked or 4v4.

 

As for IO dot spec mercs, meh. I realize people claim it's a "tank killer" and has awesome dot spread with uber damage. I feel the work you put into dot spec merc to get the same results of an arsenal merc is 10 times as much, only arsenal has great burst and IO does not. Energy management is retarded on IO also.

 

That's just my opinion.

 

My suggestion to improve mercs is one that would work for all the classes, and that's simply give them a worthy anti-tunnel ability. Something that can force focused damage off them temporarily. All three specs could benefit from that.

 

Some changes to their utilities would be great too, but that's probably asking for too much. For instance, 30% DR when stunned should imo be baseline. Just as it is for AP/PT.

 

EDIT: I don't care now. Arsenal is fine in regs, I just don't play merc in ranked. I got a sorc if I want to do ranked. I shelved my mercs, and am running a lowbie hatred sin now so I am preoccupied messing around on that.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Lhancelot

[Jadescythe]

The biggest problem with mercs being good in regs, awful in solo ranked, and "viable" in group ranked is that let's be honest... 1% of the pvpers play group ranked. No matter the reasons, that's how it is.

 

Are we ignoring that 99% of PvP happens in regs? If 1% of PvPers do group ranked, maybe 5% do solo ranked. And even of those that participate in both, they still probably spend more time in regs than either ranked queue combined. So I would argue that Mercs being good in regs is the most effective way to balance them.

[Lhancelot]

Are we ignoring that 99% of PvP happens in regs? If 1% of PvPers do group ranked, maybe 5% do solo ranked. And even of those that participate in both, they still probably spend more time in regs than either ranked queue combined. So I would argue that Mercs being good in regs is the most effective way to balance them.

 

I am not ignoring that 99% of the players participate in regs.

 

The fact is that regs offer no ranked rewards. Regs also are not considered the "competitive" pvp setting.

 

Solo ranked and group ranked are considered the competitive setting right? So seeing that 1% play in group ranked basically nullifying it as having much relevancy, and solo ranked being the major competitive setting people will participate in... Doesn't it make sense that the balance in solo ranked should be a little better than it is now?

 

Yeah, mercs are fun in regs. But if someone wants to enter "competitive" rated matches without forming a superteam (group ranked), they have to enter solo ranked and some classes are awful in this setting.

 

Entering solo ranked as a merc and many other classes is futile and pointless because they are not viable in solo ranked. Period.

 

If you feel that only regs pvp should be balanced, then maybe they need to start giving rating for 8v8 reg matches too. As it stands now, some classes cannot fairly get a decent rating in SOLO ranked.

 

I am being idealistic here. I do not believe for a second that anything will change regarding classes and balance in solo ranked. I am just pointing out one of the hundreds of problems with PVP and "balance".

[Jadescythe]

I am not ignoring that 99% of the players participate in regs.

 

The fact is that regs offer no ranked rewards. Regs also are not considered the "competitive" pvp setting.

 

Solo ranked and group ranked are considered the competitive setting right? So seeing that 1% play in group ranked basically nullifying it as having much relevancy, and solo ranked being the major competitive setting people will participate in... Doesn't it make sense that the balance in solo ranked should be a little better than it is now?

 

Yeah, mercs are fun in regs. But if someone wants to enter "competitive" rated matches without forming a superteam (group ranked), they have to enter solo ranked and some classes are awful in this setting.

 

Entering solo ranked as a merc and many other classes is futile and pointless because they are not viable in solo ranked. Period.

 

If you feel that only regs pvp should be balanced, then maybe they need to start giving rating for 8v8 reg matches too. As it stands now, some classes cannot fairly get a decent rating in SOLO ranked.

 

I am being idealistic here. I do not believe for a second that anything will change regarding classes and balance in solo ranked. I am just pointing out one of the hundreds of problems with PVP and "balance".

 

You're asking for classes to be balanced in an imbalanced game mode. Take off healing as an example. Almost meaningless in a game involving the role trinity. Potentially OP in an all DPS game.

 

Take opening burst and focus fire for example. Difficult to perform in games involving the trinity where you can swap guard and have a healer to keep someone alive. Difficult to prevent in an all DPS game unless the focused player has some sort of anti-focus mechanic.

 

Even within the trinity for solo queue, there is no guarantee that your team will work together properly. Mercs happen to be a class that heavily relies on their team to work together for protection. It's the worst type of class for solo players by design. If they are protected and stay safe, they pump out damage from a safe range. It's the ADC archetype in MOBAs.

 

You have to balance to the highest level scenario. If Arsenal can perform its role as a ranged burst, glass cannon spec well with teamwork, then you have to balance assuming teamwork exists. In the same way you have to balance survivability of everyone with knowledge that guard exists in the game. If you don't, then it will be near impossible to kill anyone with guard present, but it causes scenarios like you see now where all DPS games allow for some classes to get bursted out.

 

You can see the biggest balance complaint for the whole game was from trying to balance for solo players. When resolve was nerfed to allow for overlapping CC, it buffed CC for coodinated teams to allow it to punish uncoordinated teams less. Now you can potentially CC someone for 7 seconds without filling resolve and up to 11 seconds if they can't CC break. Yes, bad players in regs were giving people full resolve because they have no idea when to use CC, but now players complain about being CC'd too long because dropping a 4 second stun on someone who has been stunned for 3 seconds doesn't fill resolve.

[Lhancelot]

You're asking for classes to be balanced in an imbalanced game mode. Take off healing as an example. Almost meaningless in a game involving the role trinity. Potentially OP in an all DPS game.

 

Take opening burst and focus fire for example. Difficult to perform in games involving the trinity where you can swap guard and have a healer to keep someone alive. Difficult to prevent in an all DPS game unless the focused player has some sort of anti-focus mechanic.

 

Even within the trinity for solo queue, there is no guarantee that your team will work together properly. Mercs happen to be a class that heavily relies on their team to work together for protection. It's the worst type of class for solo players by design. If they are protected and stay safe, they pump out damage from a safe range. It's the ADC archetype in MOBAs.

 

You have to balance to the highest level scenario. If Arsenal can perform its role as a ranged burst, glass cannon spec well with teamwork, then you have to balance assuming teamwork exists. In the same way you have to balance survivability of everyone with knowledge that guard exists in the game. If you don't, then it will be near impossible to kill anyone with guard present, but it causes scenarios like you see now where all DPS games allow for some classes to get bursted out.

 

You can see the biggest balance complaint for the whole game was from trying to balance for solo players. When resolve was nerfed to allow for overlapping CC, it buffed CC for coodinated teams to allow it to punish uncoordinated teams less. Now you can potentially CC someone for 7 seconds without filling resolve and up to 11 seconds if they can't CC break. Yes, bad players in regs were giving people full resolve because they have no idea when to use CC, but now players complain about being CC'd too long because dropping a 4 second stun on someone who has been stunned for 3 seconds doesn't fill resolve.

 

So let's say 8v8 is the most balanced and enjoyable for the majority of the players.

 

How does it not make sense to add 8v8 ranked again? Since people obviously enjoy 8v8 (majority), wouldn't they be more apt to queue for ranked 8v8?

 

Surely the reason most do not queue for ranked is that it is solely 4v4, and as you stated is the most imbalanced meta for PVP and 8v8 is the most balanced...

[AlrikFassbauer]

You are smarter than this... We had a whole thread on this last week where i posted all the numbers at that time and the discrepancy was horrific. A 5 minute search of the leaderboards now tells and even darker tale...

 

There are 173 Sorcs at or above 1600 in solo queue, compared to 17 Mercs and 33 Sniper/GS. For the math impaired that a 10-1 differential.

 

There are 93 players in team ranked with 1600 or better.

In team ranked its 23, 1, and 7.

One darn Merc/Mando over 1600 in team ranked.... ONE! And hes a whopping 1702.

 

This is your argument? That because there is ONE, that they are fine? oh and 1 is not even "multiple".

 

You are either trolling, ignorant, or both, either way your view is invalid, incorrect, and blatantly wrong.

 

Thank you. If I had posted a similar response, people would have jumped at me.

 

The biggest problem with mercs being good in regs, awful in solo ranked, and "viable" in group ranked is that let's be honest... 1% of the pvpers play group ranked. No matter the reasons, that's how it is.

 

Thank you for writing this.

Edited May 4, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[Jadescythe]

So let's say 8v8 is the most balanced and enjoyable for the majority of the players.

 

How does it not make sense to add 8v8 ranked again? Since people obviously enjoy 8v8 (majority), wouldn't they be more apt to queue for ranked 8v8?

 

Surely the reason most do not queue for ranked is that it is solely 4v4, and as you stated is the most imbalanced meta for PVP and 8v8 is the most balanced...

 

Because I never said that at all.

 

Let's accept your premise that 8v8 is the more enjoyable and well liked game mode. There is a reason 8v8 ranked was removed from the game. Finding 8 people for a team is a large task and coordinating their availability is even worse. You also need another 8 players to play against, unlike a raid.

 

Now you may ask why 8v8 solo ranked shouldn't be a thing then. You can queue up whenever. Literally everything I said in my previous post still applies. You can't balance objective warzones with both coordinated and uncoordinated teams in mind. You have a much larger queue sync issue when there are 8 spots to be filled. The objective warzones themselves were not balanced even when ranked existed. There are so many non-competitive aspects of the warzones, that there is no reason to try and make it a ranked environment again in its current state. Your individual contribution to an 8 man team is significantly lower than in a 4 man team.

 

From a class balance perspective (aside from healers), 8v8 is more balanced and 4v4 team is more balanced. The balance problem lives with 4v4 solo and will carry over into 8v8 solo.