Guardian Redundant Abilities

[KiranK]

There are definitely some redundant abilities in the all of the JK trees. There are two big ones that stand out above the rest.

 

1) Strike/Sundering strike. Why? Why why why why? Other classes/specs can ignore armor innately, yet we need to wait on a CD just to hit our armor sunder/focus builder. That's ridiculous. Remove the damn CD. Sundering strike should replace strike completely.

 

2) Pommel strike/Opportune strike. Stupid. Practically the same skill. Combine skills and conditions. Halve the CD. Fixed.

[Dirtylobster]

No one NEED 25 buttons where you are only able to use half of them once about every second minute....!

 

It would not be so bad if ALL the attacks were not blue and looked completely identical.

After one minute fighting you don't think anymore, you just click the button that is not on CD.

That does not take one bit of skill or intelligence. My cat could do it.

I understand it sounds like I am contradicting myself but I think half of the buttons would do the exact same work... 5 types of identical stun/cc, one million grenades and 511 attacks is overkill.

 

 

On another topic, this game turned me into a clicker and its really starting to take its toll on my hand.

I have been sitting in front of computers since I was 9 and I am 35 now and so far no game has EVER given me physical pain after 2 weeks like SWTOR has...

[EdAraujo]

What's the point of having so many abilities and having to play the class at 100% if another class can do everything we do, but better and at 50%? That other 50% doesn't just vanish. Instead, while we're having to invest into our class 100% just to get it to perform decently others are playing at 50% and using the other 50% to play the meta game we can't even approach because we have to juggle "18-20 buttons to be effective."

 

And for the record, more abilities =|= skill. Skill is using what abilities you do have smartly and at the most opportune time. It's knowing what abilities counter your enemies and what abilities or yours they can counter. Having Force Charge doesn't make you skilled. Knowing that using it to attack that Sorc who'll probably just use Overload to knock you away and either position yourself in such a way to negate it or using a different opener is where the skill lies.

 

Exactly.

[OdonKnight]

A thousand times this. Even just removing the cooldown on sunder or talenting to make slice have sunder effects would make the class flow a lot better.

 

The combination of pommel strike and opportune strike would be nice too.

 

Another thing. Why are there 47 skills to interrupt on long cooldowns? Why not reduce them to one interrupt with a fraction of the cooldown? Doesn't a tank have enough to do? Vanguards don't have that obnoxious gimmick and I can't speak for shadows.

 

The rest of the stuff can be tweaked later, but frankly, the clunkiness of the priority/rotation is needlessly complex and those small changes would make it a lot better. More changes would be better, but I'm okay with baby steps. The DPS & tanking tree overhauls can come later. ;-)

 

+oo This This This This (mentally insert a ~/-~ between the two circles for my plus comment)

 

The class, while I am enjoying, has the feel of a design by committee (and separate parallel committees at that). The class and its powers/triggers/situations did not get run through for psychological review/triggers. Side note: Many of the programs you use have been run through one or more psychological tests/trial runs to ascertain what people wanted to do, where they clicked, and why. Addendum: My view is biased as I play a guardian and see them as slightly.. off.

 

Many of the guardians powers are duplicates yes, but they compound the error by not having any clear triggers or associations with many of the powers. (below is through mid 30's)

 

You have two primary force building attacks - great.

 

You have one force burning standard attack - no trigger - poor and easily overlooked by average person in heat of battle - only mental tag is "more damage" Could be excised from list for ease but not mandated as list of "standard" all purpose attacks is short.

You have another attack - short range - also stuns - but s free after jump and can trigger defense shield. Massive mental tags and triggers for the user to key off on.

 

You have an AoE - good damage, can stun, primary - good triggers causes it to be high-priority/memorable.

You have a redundant A0E - is just damage - usable more often versus the better/more preferred AoE - comes across as "filler" material mentally but can cause the mind to go into auto-drive mode (totally forgot how you're suddenly home).

 

Then they mess up.

you have a attack/stun attack: Usable only on some opponents (first negative mental trigger - anything situational needs a positive to tell user to - "hey click me as we're in X situation" X could be a robot, a force user, <something>

 

Then they have TWO attacks which are atrocious.

The "when slowed" and the "when stunned" - but it gets better as, again, both are also not usable on everyone. Now before these two we're already up to 7 attacks - for most users you have exceeded their easy finger reach/mouse button threshold. Also, are in danger of so muddling up the "I should use this" logical progression as to confuse a user in stressful situation (tanking tough fight with tough mods that want to wander or pvp, etc, etc)

 

First the situational modifiers of stunned/slowed aren't shared - a negative trigger as you have to stop and remember which will become available as often the stunning/slowing was done by another and you are reacting to that (all of this is burning valuable ms's as you react to that, react and try to remember what to use.. when you can use it.. if the opponent is viable..) very inefficient and poorly designed.

 

Also - that is compounded as you only "see" - get verification - that they are ready once items global cooldown is ready - thus causing inefficient pauses - if there was a trigger of some sort (flashing/etc) to remind user to look there it would help as already the limitations of these powers make these a back-seat if not in the trunk - in the mental priority of the average user's brain. These should be combined into one attack - watered down to be used versus anybody so the user thinks - enemy stunned use by coup de grace; or something akin to this.

 

Again - the above is dealing with law of averages - doesn't apply to everyone.

 

Final note: I respectfully disagree with those n the "there are not too many powers" for the class. Anytime you are dealing with powers that can fit on 4 action bars you have exceeded the average persons ability to a) remember them all b) remember their usability thresholds and triggers c) finding them and using them. Outstanding if you can mentally map them all - cookie for you - most people cannot make that memory/vision jump - like mentally mapping out a bushel of chess moves ahead of time. Most people react to the others move and in a video game you do not want your users ignoring 75% of the screen to watch colored buttons b/c there are so many.

Edited January 4, 2012 by OdonKnight

[CzaplaM]

Great thread boys

5 starring it.

 

I noticed it is a pain to use some of my abilities and I have 12 buttons on my mouse! I'm sure they will put something in place and this thread has a bunch of great ideas for them.

[Cerion]

Guardians who go the DPS route? Why is that even an option? If your a Guardian you should be GUARDING a.k.a tanking. If you want DPS, roll a Sentinel. The fact that they even come close in terms of DPS is evidence that the classes are rife with imbalance and too much overlap. Since Sentinels already essentially faint if a champ looks at them hard, seems to me that Guardians need a defense buff & DPS nerf.

 

.

 

Wrong. Not everyone plays this game for it's mechanics. I want to play a single-saber wielding Jedi, like I've come to love from the movies. As such, I also want kill stuff when appropriate...not tank.

 

I'm not going to roll a two-fisted saber showoff. The day BW implements your suggestion is the day I leave the game. just sayin'

[KraeVull]

I'd really appreciate it if Bioware would take some note of the suggestions listed in this thread.

[Aeryl]

First thing that pops out in this thread is how a majority of replies are indicating that they're binding every single skill to something - thats just plain ridiculous

 

WoW veteran here (Vanilla through LK), and had one set of bars / binds for Raids/PVE , another for PVP / BGs - Same concept applies here

 

Being a WoW veteran doesn't mean you know what you're doing.

 

I have a ZBoard Merc keyboard and a Logitech MZX 518 mouse. Running the Logitech Setpoint program as administrator (which you shouldn't really have to do, but TOR makes you) allows me to bind one of the thumb buttons to ALT. The Merc keyboard puts 11 number buttons close together and gives me 24 rapid button presses with V and Alt-V.

 

If you are mouse-clicking your abilities, you're not doing it right.

[VoidJustice]

Personally...

 

Im really good at using all the abilities properly in the right situations now... I enjoy it quite a bit.

 

Here's my point..

 

If my level 15 councelor can kill with just 5 key presses, why does it take my Guardian close to 20 to kill... IN THE SAME 1-49 WARZONES...

 

It'll be fair when my guardian can kill in 10 and then someone else in the next 10 and tank damage through both.

 

why... cause it takes twice as much skill to manage

this insanity... I like it thou... just give us teh POWA to go with the SKILL requirement.

 

 

O and btw ... my councelor has more survivability with the damn bubble and 2 heals also.

Edited February 10, 2012 by VoidJustice