I saw a duck on the sidewalk today...

[Gokkus]

when making my way to work. I found this quite odd as I did not expect a duck to sit on a cold, hard surface where you would rather expect humans to be at. What's more, there was a patch of grass and some water less than 10 meters (30 ft.) away. So why would the duck not go there?

On closer inspection, the duck was not in distress, nor anxious, nor crazy. He just decided to chill on the sidewalk for a bit. Believing this to be his own choice and right, I left him there to do as he pleased.

 

So how about it folks, whether someone believes this game to be an MMO or a single player game, whether someone wants a challenge or just an easy ride, whether (s)he enjoys leveling or just endgame, to PvP or to do Ops, clicking or key-bindig, whether you feel they belong in this game or not, or even if you feel they are playing the game wrong...just let them play the game the way they want. The only wrong way to play this game is to do so not enjoying it.

 

Yes I know what you are thinking, what if a lot of ducks suddenly decided to go and relax on the sidewalk... Well, I guess you will just have to walk around them. And otherwise there will be plenty of room on the grass.

 

 

 

 

Tl;dr: Don't kick a duck for sitting on the sidewalk.

[DieAlteHexe]

Most excellent post and one that I wish more people would take in.

[Knorlac]

While I wholeheartedly agree with your general message, I don't think that this is even the main concern. Most people don't care where this individual duck or a whole group of ducks is sitting.

 

It's more like there was this huge pond and meadow with lush vegitation where most of the ducks used to sit for years. There was a city with streets and sidewalks off in the distance and if one of the ducks really wanted to go there it could.

Then, suddenly, the humans with their loud and stinking machines arrived from the nearby city and turned nearly all of the once beautiful landscape into parking lots and shopping malls, leaving only very little of the former habitat as a small park.

[DieAlteHexe]

While I wholeheartedly agree with your general message, I don't think that this is even the main concern. Most people don't care where this individual duck or a whole group of ducks is sitting.

 

It's more like there was this huge pond and meadow with lush vegitation where most of the ducks used to sit for years. There was a city with streets and sidewalks off in the distance and if one of the ducks really wanted to go there it could.

Then, suddenly, the humans with their loud and stinking machines arrived from the nearby city and turned nearly all of the once beautiful landscape into parking lots and shopping malls, leaving only very little of the former habitat as a small park.

 

Except that "just over there" there are still places with vegetation, freedom to frolic etc., with even more risk v. reward but no, it's just easier to want to take away than to go do what is readily available.

[Knorlac]

I don't want to take away anything. As it stands, something was taken away from me and ducks like me.

All I desire are options to get some of it back without hindering the other duck's enjoyment.

[DieAlteHexe]

I don't want to take away anything. As it stands, something was taken away from me and ducks like me.

All I desire are options to get some of it back without hindering the other duck's enjoyment.

 

What options are missing that you want back? BTW, mine was a more generalised "shot", not aimed at you necessarily but at those who can't be arsed to go play what is available and would rather whinge about what others are doing and enjoying.

[Gokkus]

I don't want to take away anything. As it stands, something was taken away from me and ducks like me.

All I desire are options to get some of it back without hindering the other duck's enjoyment.

 

I guess I can see where you are coming and I agree with options being a good thing. This anecdote would not really work if there would only be sidewalks around.

 

However I definitely feel some ducks here feel superior to others for being on the grass instead of the sidewalk. They even feel they are entitled to more and condemn others for not doing what they do, the way they do it. My aim was to remind people that not everyone has the same tastes and sometimes this may seem very illogical. That does not make it wrong though.

[Knorlac]

What options are missing that you want back? BTW, mine was a more generalised "shot", not aimed at you necessarily but at those who can't be arsed to go play what is available and would rather whinge about what others are doing and enjoying.

 

What I enjoyed most in SWTOR was leveling alts of different classes, advanced classes, gender, active companions and allignment.

While doing so, I used to enjoy the journey most of all. I never skipped any of the sidequests(and bonus series if I felt like it), did the FPs at their appropriate level once and fulfilling my chosen role to the best of my abilities.

I enjoyed the feeling of slowly growing more powerful and looking forward to x ability at level y or being able to use x crafted gearpiece once I reached lvl y were all the carrots I needed to keep me motivated.

The game was always on the easy side of things, but at least some major villains required the use of some tactics and if I pulled too many mobs at once there was a real possibility of defeat, requiring me to use CC and DCs to master the situation.

 

Overleveling was a problem for me even then, as slaying grey mobs didn't feel very satisfying to me and even back then, I would've wished for an otion to slow or halt XP gain(with the exception of PvP for obvious reasons).

 

Now I can't play this way anymore.

 

- I hit lvl 65 not even half way through the story, leaving nothing to look forward to for the rest of the journey

- Crafting gear for my char is no longer needed as he will outgrow it in a few hours

- I can sleepwalk through the planets while my companions slaughter every adversary with ease or make me invulnerable.

- I can't in most cases play my role in FPs anymore, because the leveling ones are tactical with everyone just rushing in and pulling everything while still succeeding somehow.

- bonus series are suddenly lvl 60 or so content making it impossible to play some of them in the right order.

- all companions are basically the same

 

I know giving options to revert all of those changes wouldn't be feasible, so there are only two things I'd ask from BW.

 

- reimplementing the white acute module, reducing XP gain to pre 4.0 levels.

- creating a similar object to tone down my companions power, so I can still enjoy watching them fight at my side and commenting on things without them being demigods.

[DieAlteHexe]

What I enjoyed most in SWTOR was leveling alts of different classes, advanced classes, gender, active companions and allignment.

While doing so, I used to enjoy the journey most of all. I never skipped any of the sidequests(and bonus series if I felt like it), did the FPs at their appropriate level once and fulfilling my chosen role to the best of my abilities.

I enjoyed the feeling of slowly growing more powerful and looking forward to x ability at level y or being able to use x crafted gearpiece once I reached lvl y were all the carrots I needed to keep me motivated.

The game was always on the easy side of things, but at least some major villains required the use of some tactics and if I pulled too many mobs at once there was a real possibility of defeat, requiring me to use CC and DCs to master the situation.

 

Overleveling was a problem for me even then, as slaying grey mobs didn't feel very satisfying to me and even back then, I would've wished for an otion to slow or halt XP gain(with the exception of PvP for obvious reasons).

 

Now I can't play this way anymore.

 

- I hit lvl 65 not even half way through the story, leaving nothing to look forward to for the rest of the journey

- Crafting gear for my char is no longer needed as he will outgrow it in a few hours

- I can sleepwalk through the planets while my companions slaughter every adversary with ease or make me invulnerable.

- I can't in most cases play my role in FPs anymore, because the leveling ones are tactical with everyone just rushing in and pulling everything while still succeeding somehow.

- bonus series are suddenly lvl 60 or so content making it impossible to play some of them in the right order.

- all companions are basically the same

 

I know giving options to revert all of those changes wouldn't be feasible, so there are only two things I'd ask from BW.

 

- reimplementing the white acute module, reducing XP gain to pre 4.0 levels.

- creating a similar object to tone down my companions power, so I can still enjoy watching them fight at my side and commenting on things without them being demigods.

 

That's exactly how I play. Many alts, story-mode and I had no issue with doing this at all. Since I am focused on the story mainly, the over/under-level aspects weren't much of an issue (except on one char that I leveled during the winter holiday really-ridiculous-amount-of-extra-xp thing...I had some problems there but that was due to not knowing my class).

 

I'm a bit at a loss as to why you cannot continue to enjoy the story simply because you are at 65?

 

Agreed on the companions. That was a bit of a shock. Was a nice "mini-game" dealing with evolving them.

 

Thanks for the serious, non-snarky response. Wish more folk would take the time to do this.

[Knorlac]

I guess I can see where you are coming and I agree with options being a good thing. This anecdote would not really work if there would only be sidewalks around.

 

However I definitely feel some ducks here feel superior to others for being on the grass instead of the sidewalk. They even feel they are entitled to more and condemn others for not doing what they do, the way they do it. My aim was to remind people that not everyone has the same tastes and sometimes this may seem very illogical. That does not make it wrong though.

 

Yeah, there are definitely ducks who feel superior to others, but a lot of them are just frustrated IMO, as am I.

I'm under no illusion that MMOs change over time to some degree, but I've never seen it done to such an extreme as here. If the game had been this way from the start, I wouldn't have complained(or subscribed for that matter), but changing it so drastically after years just feels crazy to me.

[DieAlteHexe]

Yeah, there are definitely ducks who feel superior to others, but a lot of them are just frustrated IMO, as am I.

I'm under no illusion that MMOs change over time to some degree, but I've never seen it done to such an extreme as here. If the game had been this way from the start, I wouldn't have complained(or subscribed for that matter), but changing it so drastically after years just feels crazy to me.

 

Reminds me of the days, long ago, in UO when Trammel was introduced. It was a very, very drastic change and all hell broke loose.

 

And to think, UO is *still* around after, what, nearly 20 years? I think it came out in 1998. Could be off on that but definitely pre-2k. As you noted MMOs change and they change to reflect income. What makes them money is what they will most likely do. It's a business after all. Sucks, though, when you're on the "wrong side" of the change.

[Knorlac]

That's exactly how I play. Many alts, story-mode and I had no issue with doing this at all. Since I am focused on the story mainly, the over/under-level aspects weren't much of an issue (except on one char that I leveled during the winter holiday really-ridiculous-amount-of-extra-xp thing...I had some problems there but that was due to not knowing my class).

 

I'm a bit at a loss as to why you cannot continue to enjoy the story simply because you are at 65?

 

Agreed on the companions. That was a bit of a shock. Was a nice "mini-game" dealing with evolving them.

 

Thanks for the serious, non-snarky response. Wish more folk would take the time to do this.

 

Like I said, it's not JUST the story for me. I also enjoyed the traditional MMO aspects of it as in leveling up over the whole distance having to gear up all the way to stay on top of things and having to play my chosen role in the trinity even before endgame.

 

Even if overleveling didn't bother me, the level sync failed in its task to keep content relevant IMO. With all the abilities I still feel like a god, that is just going through the motions.

This game was never very difficult or challenging to begin with, but there is a difference in between easy and almost playing itself IMO.

Before 4.0 there were instances like bosses, groups of mobs and heroics where you would die if you didn't at least pay a little attention to what you were doing or which skills you were using. Now I get bored to a point where I either just stop playing or literally fall asleep while playing for seconds.

 

I bought this game because it was SW AND a MMO back when it was released. The "KOTOR3" aspect was just a bonus to me and I was under no illusion that a MMO could ever reach the level of writing and decisions and consequences that was possible in a single player experience.

[Knorlac]

Reminds me of the days, long ago, in UO when Trammel was introduced. It was a very, very drastic change and all hell broke loose.

 

And to think, UO is *still* around after, what, nearly 20 years? I think it came out in 1998. Could be off on that but definitely pre-2k. As you noted MMOs change and they change to reflect income. What makes them money is what they will most likely do. It's a business after all. Sucks, though, when you're on the "wrong side" of the change.

 

This is why crowd funded games are becoming more and more important to me. Games like Pillars of Eternity, Divinity, Shadowrun(and Star Citizen if it ever gets released;)) are what keep my hopes up.

The only conventional developer I still would blindly buy a game from is CDPR at the moment.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Knorlac

[DieAlteHexe]

Well, sorry it's not working out for you and I hope you find something that does. Truly. I've churned through all the non-Eastern MMOs over time and will, eventually, churn through this. In face, I'm getting a bit tired of MMOs and will probably take another break from them when my time here is ended.

[Stradlin]

when making my way to work. I found this quite odd as I did not expect a duck to sit on a cold, hard surface where you would rather expect humans to be at. What's more, there was a patch of grass and some water less than 10 meters (30 ft.) away. So why would the duck not go there?

On closer inspection, the duck was not in distress, nor anxious, nor crazy. He just decided to chill on the sidewalk for a bit. Believing this to be his own choice and right, I left him there to do as he pleased.

 

So how about it folks, whether someone believes this game to be an MMO or a single player game, whether someone wants a challenge or just an easy ride, whether (s)he enjoys leveling or just endgame, to PvP or to do Ops, clicking or key-bindig, whether you feel they belong in this game or not, or even if you feel they are playing the game wrong...just let them play the game the way they want. The only wrong way to play this game is to do so not enjoying it.

 

Yes I know what you are thinking, what if a lot of ducks suddenly decided to go and relax on the sidewalk... Well, I guess you will just have to walk around them. And otherwise there will be plenty of room on the grass.

 

 

 

 

Tl;dr: Don't kick a duck for sitting on the sidewalk.

 

In TOR version of the analogy, most of your ducks sit on the side walk not because of desire to chill, but cause BW is pouring dung into the pond the said duck would like to chill in.

[DieAlteHexe]

In TOR version of the analogy, most of your ducks sit on the side walk not because of desire to chill, but cause BW is pouring dung into the pond the said duck would like to chill in.

 

If I felt that strongly (and I have in other games) I think I'd be finding a new "pond" rather than bemoaning the corruption of the one I've been swimming in.

 

Just makes sense.

[Knorlac]

If I felt that strongly (and I have in other games) I think I'd be finding a new "pond" rather than bemoaning the corruption of the one I've been swimming in.

 

Just makes sense.

 

Sure it does. And it's a real possibility that I will do exactly that before long, but as a MMO veteran you'll understand that this is not an easy decision after someone has been attached to a game for so long having invested 100s or in some cases 1000s of $ and more importantly several months of /played into it.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Knorlac

[DieAlteHexe]

Sure it does. And it's a real possibility that I will do exactly that before long, but as a MMO veteran you'll understand that this is not an easy decision after someone has been attached to a game for so long having invested 100s or in some cases 1000s of $ and more importantly several months of /played into it.

 

The more MMOs I play, the less patience I have with them when they veer off in a direction that doesn't suit me and that makes it a pretty easy decision, for me anyway. It's a pastime, that I pay for and when it reaches a point where it's just not fun anymore...easy decision.

 

Now, if you mean "sad that it didn't stay the way I wanted it to and bugger all else" then yeah. I know what you mean. Took me a solid two weeks to wake up and shift my arse out of the last MMO I played.

 

As for the money, well spent if you had fun. All things come to an end, damn it.

[Knorlac]

The more MMOs I play, the less patience I have with them when they veer off in a direction that doesn't suit me and that makes it a pretty easy decision, for me anyway. It's a pastime, that I pay for and when it reaches a point where it's just not fun anymore...easy decision.

 

Now, if you mean "sad that it didn't stay the way I wanted it to and bugger all else" then yeah. I know what you mean. Took me a solid two weeks to wake up and shift my arse out of the last MMO I played.

 

As for the money, well spent if you had fun. All things come to an end, damn it.

 

SWTOR is a bit of a special case for me it seems. I have played and still play other MMOs besides this one, but all of them casually and most of them as F2P while still paying for expansions if they interest me. But after EQ2, SWTOR is just the second MMO in which I invested such huge amounts of time and the first one I've played since its beginning.

[DieAlteHexe]

SWTOR is a bit of a special case for me it seems. I have played and still play other MMOs besides this one, but all of them casually and most of them as F2P while still paying for expansions if they interest me. But after EQ2, SWTOR is just the second MMO in which I invested such huge amounts of time and the first one I've played since its beginning.

 

Ah. I've fallen for most and spent plenty of time/effort/money on 'em. Still have my LoTR account (lifetime subscriber there) and SWTOR. Rest I had enough of. Being a complete fan of BW's writing, SWTOR will keep me happy so long as the stories keep on coming. They'd have to bork the play a whole lot more to chase me off.

 

Sorry that you're feeling as you are. I got the same way about LoTR. Being a lifetime sub means I don't pay monthly and can come and go as I please but despite being one of my absolute favourite stories/settings, I just couldn't do it anymore. And I left.

[Knorlac]

Ah. I've fallen for most and spent plenty of time/effort/money on 'em. Still have my LoTR account (lifetime subscriber there) and SWTOR. Rest I had enough of. Being a complete fan of BW's writing, SWTOR will keep me happy so long as the stories keep on coming. They'd have to bork the play a whole lot more to chase me off.

 

Sorry that you're feeling as you are. I got the same way about LoTR. Being a lifetime sub means I don't pay monthly and can come and go as I please but despite being one of my absolute favourite stories/settings, I just couldn't do it anymore. And I left.

 

LoTR is one of the MMOs I play strictly for the story, only returning to it every expansion and enjoying my epic journey through Middle Earth. I really feel like I've come a damn long way in that game and it's the best thing about it for me.

 

As for SWTOR, the stories would perhaps keep me here if they were actually stories instead of a single one and if they would still feel like Star Wars to me. Banding together to fight a greater foe all the time is not what this IP is about IMO.

Also, while the writing is certainly very good for a MMO, it's not as good as many SP games I've played(and neither could it be IMO lest they completely throw the MMO part out of it and make decisions matter to a FAR greater degree).

Sorely lacking replayability, at least in my opinion, it just isn't enough without simultaneously working on all those other MMO aspects to warrant a 15$ sub. If this was indeed a single player game, the monthly episodes would fall into the category of blatant rippoff for me compared to let's say TW3s DLCs

[I_Sithed_MyPants]

whether someone believes this game to be an MMO or a single player game

 

While you're right that people should just let others enjoy the game how they want, I caught myself at this point. This game is an MMO, you can see this here on the official info page on the swtor website.

 

Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ is the only massively-multiplayer online game...

Edited April 29, 2016 by I_Sithed_MyPants

[Gokkus]

While you're right that people should just let others enjoy the game, I caught myself at this point. This game is an MMO, you can see this here on the official info page on the swtor website.

 

Oh you are very right that it is factually an MMO, but a lot of people will dispute this or feel/belief it to be no longer so.

 

I for one still very much believe it is an MMO since I am on a well populated server, doing a FP almost every day.

[JennyFlynn]

I'm more of a swan myself, but I appreciate the sentiment of everything else you've said.

[I_Sithed_MyPants]

but a lot of people will dispute this or feel/belief it to be no longer so.

People can believe an apple is an orange as much as they want, doesn't mean it's actually an orange. Until BioWare say their apple is actually an orange, it will still be an apple. People are entitled to their beliefs, but an apple is an apple and an orange is an orange unless the powers that be say otherwise.