Force Barrier to be like stealth in APG nodes

[Master-Nala]

Nothing in that post negates what I said.

 

Where do you see this protection from control effects? Whatever your 'experience', you're just plain wrong. Enduring Bastion does not provide immunity to anything but interrupts. I've cited the developers description of the power. You cite nothing but your own faulty observation.

 

After they pop Barrier they are free to use the mod uninterrupted.

 

Unless you stun or use a physics effect.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Master-Nala

[Ruhun]

Where do you see this protection from control effects? Whatever your 'experience', you're just plain wrong. Enduring Bastion does not provide immunity to anything but interrupts. I've cited the developers description of the power. You cite nothing but your own faulty observation.

 

Interrupts and damage.

Whatever the notes may be I have not seen a sorc get CC'd with Bastion active.

They have this wonderful grace period to do whatever they want.

Hell they shrug off grenades and continue channeling the mod.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ruhun

[Greezt]

Yes, so what?

 

I thought I answered that. Scrolling back up, I'm sure I have... So let me reiterate. I'm assuming you're talking about the whole "acting" thing. Well, since killing stuff doesn't actually give you points in this map, theoretically you can not kill anyone and still win. Theoretically for any class other than sorc/sage, that is. Why? Because when someone is hitting/shooting you as any other class you're going to have to kill them or die. The only ability that allows you to ignore damage completely while remaining withing the node is barrier. Of course, sins/ops can stealth out... And lose the node (not to mention they're not actually immune to damage even if they have resilience/dodge).

 

Why?

 

Why GBtF, or why entrench? In any case, it's because each of them either mitigates damage or grants immunity to control, but neither of them do both. So a sniper can be killed while entrenched, and a sent can be pulled/pushed/mezzed/whatever. See? Each of them can be countered. Care to teach me how to counter barrier? Other than carrying a pocket merc, that is. Also, please give me another single ability that gives as large a tactical advantage as barrier, and has as little counters. I might try playing the class that has it.

 

Actually, the 4% actually supports your argument because it is the maximum uptime. If, as you say, we should use the power only when necessary, then the uptime goes down, probably into the 1-2% range. Which makes it less overpowered.

 

And the fact that it protects against everything still doesn't answer the question, 'why is that a problem?'

 

The 4% does not support my argument, which you seem to have misunderstood completely. I have no qualms with the uptime of barrier, my problem is with what it does during its' uptime. The only ability in any way similar to barrier is ops' roll. Guess what? It has a larger uptime, and no one's complaining about it! Why, you ask? Because it can be countered in multiple ways (stuns, roots, mezzes). It also offers exactly 3 more seconds of node, and then you can blast the op wherever you want, either by cc or by killing him. Bubble offers you 8 seconds of immunity to everything, and after it ends you have bastion and self heals. Did I just knock you back? No problem, force speed! Oh, a stun? PW back

 

 

Why is it not working as intended? It's possible that is correct, but 'intended' is whatever the developers think it is, not you or me.

 

Look, you all refuse to argue the point. You just keep saying it is unfair. Barrier is a definite advantage. It gives you 8 seconds of defending a node. So what? What about that is problematic?

 

Read my comment, you'll see that I mentioned that if it is working as intended, I have nothing more to say. I honestly believe that this is a dev oversight, because I'm a lamb like that. Maybe I'm so dumb my head is full of cotton, though... Who knows?

 

As for the "what about that is problematic"... Well, I think I've got that covered.

[Master-Nala]

Interrupts and damage.

Whatever the notes may be I have not seen a sorc get CC'd with Bastion active.

They have this wonderful grace period to do whatever they want.

Hell they shrug off grenades and continue channeling the mod.

 

Actually, Enduring Bastion doesn't gain immunity to damage, although it might appear that way. With 4 charges, Enduring Bastion is a VERY big absorb shield. It can be burst through, it's happened to me, but it's not easy to be fair.

 

As for CC, look, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just trying to explain what the power actually does. I promise you I have a lot more experience with this power than most people. I am not a FOTM roller, I have been playing my Sage since literally the first few hours of early access in 2011.

 

You may recall that I agree that Sorcs should drop the battle mod in barrier, that's just consistent with Huttball. But otherwise, I'm not seeing the problem.

[Ruhun]

Actually, Enduring Bastion doesn't gain immunity to damage, although it might appear that way. With 4 charges, Enduring Bastion is a VERY big absorb shield. It can be burst through, it's happened to me, but it's not easy to be fair.

 

As for CC, look, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just trying to explain what the power actually does. I promise you I have a lot more experience with this power than most people. I am not a FOTM roller, I have been playing my Sage since literally the first few hours of early access in 2011.

 

You may recall that I agree that Sorcs should drop the battle mod in barrier, that's just consistent with Huttball. But otherwise, I'm not seeing the problem.

 

I'm simply stating my experience with the class.

I've been playing since 2012.

 

A sorc with Bastion can and will use that red mod. I always carry grenades these days and know how/when to stun.

Sorcs with Bastion are immune to my stuns. I have seen Jugs push them to no avail. They just continue channeling the mod.

Maybe it's a bug since it's not in the notes, I don't know, but it's happening.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ruhun

[Master-Nala]

I thought I answered that. Scrolling back up, I'm sure I have... So let me reiterate. I'm assuming you're talking about the whole "acting" thing. Well, since killing stuff doesn't actually give you points in this map, theoretically you can not kill anyone and still win. Theoretically for any class other than sorc/sage, that is. Why? Because when someone is hitting/shooting you as any other class you're going to have to kill them or die. The only ability that allows you to ignore damage completely while remaining withing the node is barrier. Of course, sins/ops can stealth out... And lose the node (not to mention they're not actually immune to damage even if they have resilience/dodge).

 

For 8 seconds out of at most 180 seconds. So 4% uptime or less. Why is that a problem? That's my question. All you are saying is that Barrier gives you immunity to damage and control. I agree. That gives you 8 seconds of fool-proof defense. But that's not enough to ensure that you hold the node for an entire round.

 

You seem to suggest that it is self-evident why this is a problem. I don't see it. You may not enjoy seeing the Sorcerer use Barrier while defending, but that doesn't mean that it is unfair. Powers have advantages, sometime great advantages.

 

 

Why GBtF, or why entrench? In any case, it's because each of them either mitigates damage or grants immunity to control, but neither of them do both. So a sniper can be killed while entrenched, and a sent can be pulled/pushed/mezzed/whatever. See? Each of them can be countered. Care to teach me how to counter barrier? Other than carrying a pocket merc, that is. Also, please give me another single ability that gives as large a tactical advantage as barrier, and has as little counters. I might try playing the class that has it.

 

The counter to barrier is E-net. But even if the power had no counters, it's not clear that powers need to have counters.

 

Now tactically on this map, the Entrench + Evasion combo is much more impactful because it can guarantee a mod use. With a red mod at the right time, it can turn the game. Force Barrier provides exactly 8 seconds of fool-proof node defense every 3 minutes. That's nowhere near as powerful as being able to use a mod without fail every single round.

 

The 4% does not support my argument, which you seem to have misunderstood completely. I have no qualms with the uptime of barrier, my problem is with what it does during its' uptime. The only ability in any way similar to barrier is ops' roll. Guess what? It has a larger uptime, and no one's complaining about it! Why, you ask? Because it can be countered in multiple ways (stuns, roots, mezzes). It also offers exactly 3 more seconds of node, and then you can blast the op wherever you want, either by cc or by killing him. Bubble offers you 8 seconds of immunity to everything, and after it ends you have bastion and self heals. Did I just knock you back? No problem, force speed! Oh, a stun? PW back

 

Again, like with Ruhun, you arguing about the whole class now. Force Barrier is part of a nice package to be sure, but I have to ask why you're picking on just one part.

 

As for uptime, uptime is very relevant as to whether something is overpowered. Let me ask you this, and please be honest. If Barrier had a 12 minute cooldown (4x as long), do you still contend that would be irrelevant? The longer the cooldown, the more impactful the power needs to be to be fair. Conversely, powers that can be used only infrequently are rarely problematic for balance.

 

This is why I think Entrench + Evasion is so much more powerful on this map. This combo, usable every minute, ensures mod use and makes it very difficult to dislodge a Sniper, especially one that's being healed.

[Master-Nala]

I'm simply stating my experience with the class.

I've been playing since 2012.

 

A sorc with Bastion can and will use that red mod. I always carry grenades these days and know how/when to stun.

Sorcs with Bastion are immune to my stuns. I have seen Jugs push them to no avail. They just continue channeling the mod.

Maybe it's a bug since it's not in the notes, I don't know, but it's happening.

 

I have been stunned dozens of times with Enduring Bastion active. I'll leave it at that.

[Ruhun]

I have been stunned dozens of times with Enduring Bastion active. I'll leave it at that.

 

Again, there is a reason why the team with more sages and sorcs tend to win, on this map and every other.

A Sniper with Entrench can be killed, a Sorc with Bastion can't.

[Greezt]

For 8 seconds out of at most 180 seconds. So 4% uptime or less. Why is that a problem? That's my question. All you are saying is that Barrier gives you immunity to damage and control. I agree. That gives you 8 seconds of fool-proof defense. But that's not enough to ensure that you hold the node for an entire round.

 

You seem to suggest that it is self-evident why this is a problem. I don't see it. You may not enjoy seeing the Sorcerer use Barrier while defending, but that doesn't mean that it is unfair. Powers have advantages, sometime great advantages.

 

Holding a node solo for 8+ seconds vs. anything ranging from a single attacker to a whole team is "not enough to ensure that you hold the node for the entire round", and is therefore ok? Why do sorcs deserve to be able to hold a node for 8 seconds vs. whatever? Also, 8 seconds (again, not counting bastion etc.) are more than enough for any competent help to come. At the very least to prevent the node from going to the enemy, if not to keep it yours.

 

The counter to barrier is E-net. But even if the power had no counters, it's not clear that powers need to have counters.

 

Now tactically on this map, the Entrench + Evasion combo is much more impactful because it can guarantee a mod use. With a red mod at the right time, it can turn the game. Force Barrier provides exactly 8 seconds of fool-proof node defense every 3 minutes. That's nowhere near as powerful as being able to use a mod without fail every single round.

 

The counter to barrier is E-net only preemtively. Yes, it's not bad, but the fact that only one AC in the game can counter a move is already dumb. It means that if someone chooses to sorc I can either go merc or go bang my head against the wall.

 

What's with all this "red mod" stuff? You'd think snipers can actually plan ahead to pick up the red mod. In other words, the point I'm making is that entrench+evasion (by the way, only usable as sharpshooter, as opposed to barrier) is not nearly as useful as you make it seem. Yes, snipers can still pick up any mod and use it. Will it be anywhere near as useful? No. Give a sniper a green mod and watch them die on the node they just activated...

 

Again, like with Ruhun, you arguing about the whole class now. Force Barrier is part of a nice package to be sure, but I have to ask why you're picking on just one part.

 

As for uptime, uptime is very relevant as to whether something is overpowered. Let me ask you this, and please be honest. If Barrier had a 12 minute cooldown (4x as long), do you still contend that would be irrelevant? The longer the cooldown, the more impactful the power needs to be to be fair. Conversely, powers that can be used only infrequently are rarely problematic for balance.

 

This is why I think Entrench + Evasion is so much more powerful on this map. This combo, usable every minute, ensures mod use and makes it very difficult to dislodge a Sniper, especially one that's being healed.

 

I am arguing about the whole class for sure, but that's because the whole defensive package is a bit (a "bit") overtuned (regardless of DPS or whatever). Barrier in itself is too strong (I could live with the CC immunity as well as damage immunity if not for the mechanics immunity). Together with heals and PW you get a too many synergising abilities, and this stands out in OPG especially.

 

Uptime is not entirely irrelevant, that's true. But you missed the point where ops' lolroll is also immunity and no one cares! They have a longer uptime, but they can do less during their uptime, and they can be countered (by ways other than the early net). Their move needs some adjustment too (avoiding acid/fire pits, for example) but they are fine on this map.

 

As for entrech+evasion - I've covered that. But "especially if they're getting healed" - see, that's a fair exchange! if you're against a healer+dps, you need to work harder to win. But snipers don't heal themselves (unlike sorcs).

 

However, this whole thread is about how barrier allows you a larger advantage when guarding than any other DCD. This is factually true, and by a large margin. It also has virtually no counters. These are the reasons it should be adjusted to behave the same as stealthing out... which has many counters and offers 0 tactical advantage.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Greezt

[Lhancelot]

The main difference between Barrier and other DCDs is that Sorcs also have the strongest self heals in the game.

Madness and Healers can outlast 3 dps bashing them after barrier, that is enough for the team to reinforce that node.

Sorcs can also delay then by using bubble with the aoe stun, and healing to full again.

 

Mercs and Ops have self heals, but cannot survive the amount of DPS that sorcs can.

They have no "oh ****" button that allows them to take a break and reset the fight.

Ops can stealth out, but not with a mod. If they don't have a mod and stealth, I just maddash and force them out of stealth.

 

Snipers are easily killed in a node. A force choke or a well placed interrupt can delay that mod long enough to take it out.

 

The only classes that have a 100% chance of popping red mod are Sorcs, Jugs area close second.

 

EDIT:

I forgot to add that Sorcs have a stun immunity and damage for 5 seconds after barrier.

 

Either they cannot pop barrier when they have a mod or they lose the mod when they pop it, like in huttball.

This **** is getting out of hand.

 

It's interesting that sorcs are so powerful in regs, whereas in ranked they truly are not overpowering. Two good dps shut them down fast, and a team with slight coordination can wreck them.

 

You take sorcs and throw them into regs, and suddenly they become these all-powerful gods. it's just humorous to me.

 

Then, you take the other two healers, and they are crap in ranked, yet they can manage alright in regs. Usually.

 

The class balance is wonky on this game, and it becomes even more wonky depending on what meta you are pvping in, and what the comps are.

[Ruhun]

It's interesting that sorcs are so powerful in regs, whereas in ranked they truly are not overpowering. Two good dps shut them down fast, and a team with slight coordination can wreck them.

 

You take sorcs and throw them into regs, and suddenly they become these all-powerful gods. it's just humorous to me.

 

Then, you take the other two healers, and they are crap in ranked, yet they can manage alright in regs. Usually.

 

The class balance is wonky on this game, and it becomes even more wonky depending on what meta you are pvping in, and what the comps are.

 

Because there's only one of them in ranked.

Then again, a healer/madness combo is nothing to laugh at.

Get a decent burst dps and it's over.

 

Or you an always fight to acid with a decent healer, but two sorcs have a high chance at surviving said acid.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ruhun

[teclado]

Nah, Enduring Bastion does not grant immunity to stuns or knockbacks. You probably just encounter a lot of Sorcs who used barrier when they were white-barred. As somebody who plays Mara / Jugg most of the time, I use my AOE mezz or Force Choke on them as soon as barrier ends and Enduring Bastion begins (provided that they are not white-barred). May as well make them not able to do any damage or healing while EB wears off and attack another target in the meantime.

 

I do agree that Sorcs are just way too easy in the Odessen map. No other class can hold a node as easily as a Sorc. It's a combination of knockback root, barrier, and PW. The broken queues have driven me from regs. I've done more ranked games this season than I have in all of the prior seasons combined. Proving Grounds was fun for a while, but one can only play it so many times in a row before insanity kicks in. Solo ranked is a mess at times as well, but at least there is some map variety. Just don't get me started on the Rishi leap kill spots, though.

 

EDIT:

Ok, re-reading what Ruhun said, I think I know what's going on here. Ruhun is talking about using CC to stop a Sorc with Enduring Bastion from channeling a battle mod. Now, I have noticed more than once in Odessen that Sorcs who just exited barrier seem to be immune to CC while channeling the battle mod. I've lost nodes that way more than once. Sorc barriers, leaves barrier, is not white-barred, starts channeling battle mod = stuns do nothing. I think it is a bug.

Edited April 25, 2016 by teclado

[SlightlySychotic]

So what DCDs are fair on this map?

 

Is Entrench + Cover fair since that ensures that Snipers can use any battle mod without fail?

 

Is Enraged Defense fair in that it pretty much precludes killing the Juggernaut until the charges are expended?

 

Or Force Shroud?

 

This is a serious question. If the policy question around the OP's concern is that Force Barrier allows a Sorc to hold a node for 8 seconds (every 3 minutes) without there being anything that can be done, then what DCDs are legitimate on this map?

 

Entrench, ED, Shroud, and Reflect either make the player damage immune or CC immune. Not both. Stealth is actually less broken in this context and it doesn't count toward the cap.

Edited April 25, 2016 by SlightlySychotic

[foxmob]

So what DCDs are fair on this map?

 

Is Entrench + Cover fair since that ensures that Snipers can use any battle mod without fail?

 

Is Enraged Defense fair in that it pretty much precludes killing the Juggernaut until the charges are expended?

 

Or Force Shroud?

 

This is a serious question. If the policy question around the OP's concern is that Force Barrier allows a Sorc to hold a node for 8 seconds (every 3 minutes) without there being anything that can be done, then what DCDs are legitimate on this map?

really? I don't think it is a serious question. absolutely none of your examples are close to the immunity barrier does (why do ppl call it bubble when bubble is actually another thing that the class does?). it breaks the mechanics of the map. you can neither dps nor push/pull the target. it's actually WORSE than stealth, b/c the area is so small that you're bound to pull a stealther out just by smashing in the middle. no other ability in the game prevents you from both killing OR moving the opponent at the same time.

 

sorcs aren't my problem with the map. my beef is that it's just too complicated for pug interactions (how many ppl still don't know how to play AHG or HB?), and you will ALWAYS have pugs unless you superQ. the sorc thing is...meh. w/e. but obvious broken mechanic is obvious. they figured it out with carrying the huttball and...apparently that's it.

[Ruhun]

Nah, Enduring Bastion does not grant immunity to stuns or knockbacks. You probably just encounter a lot of Sorcs who used barrier when they were white-barred. As somebody who plays Mara / Jugg most of the time, I use my AOE mezz or Force Choke on them as soon as barrier ends and Enduring Bastion begins (provided that they are not white-barred). May as well make them not able to do any damage or healing while EB wears off and attack another target in the meantime.

 

I do agree that Sorcs are just way too easy in the Odessen map. No other class can hold a node as easily as a Sorc. It's a combination of knockback root, barrier, and PW. The broken queues have driven me from regs. I've done more ranked games this season than I have in all of the prior seasons combined. Proving Grounds was fun for a while, but one can only play it so many times in a row before insanity kicks in. Solo ranked is a mess at times as well, but at least there is some map variety. Just don't get me started on the Rishi leap kill spots, though.

 

EDIT:

Ok, re-reading what Ruhun said, I think I know what's going on here. Ruhun is talking about using CC to stop a Sorc with Enduring Bastion from channeling a battle mod. Now, I have noticed more than once in Odessen that Sorcs who just exited barrier seem to be immune to CC while channeling the battle mod. I've lost nodes that way more than once. Sorc barriers, leaves barrier, is not white-barred, starts channeling battle mod = stuns do nothing. I think it is a bug.

 

It was driving me crazy, if it's a bug then I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

 

I

[Ansultares]

Bubble is annoying, but this map has so many issues that its not even one I would complain about. I'm more interested in seeing other positional abilities get the force charge treatment. Which wasn't just limited to huttball.

 

No more pulls into endzone, no more pulls into traps.

 

Entrench, ED, Shroud, and Reflect either make the player damage immune or CC immune. Not both. Stealth is actually less broken in this context and it doesn't count toward the cap.

ED makes you neither damage or CC immune.

 

Ok, re-reading what Ruhun said, I think I know what's going on here. Ruhun is talking about using CC to stop a Sorc with Enduring Bastion from channeling a battle mod. Now, I have noticed more than once in Odessen that Sorcs who just exited barrier seem to be immune to CC while channeling the battle mod. I've lost nodes that way more than once. Sorc barriers, leaves barrier, is not white-barred, starts channeling battle mod = stuns do nothing. I think it is a bug.

Must be something to do with carrying a mod or cancelling bubble early. I regularly CC sage/sorcs as bubble expires, even in APG. There was the one I failed to stop one time, but I chalked that up to interrupt immunity.

 

Also worth noting that, with utility, phase walk grants all sorts of immunities.

 

Unrelated, but I ran into my first Lana spam last night. Looks like it continues to trigger if a team's score remains at 250, until the current round ends. Sadly, due to combat, I was only able to get a screenshot of the text spam, not of the score. We were gold team, down 300+ to 250, and they still had a node ticking. Yes, Lana, I'm watching gold team. I'm watching gold team pull out the win.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ansultares

[Kazz_Devlin]

Ah and here lies the problem, for you see the DEV’s favorite is the Sorc/Sage. In the beginning when the universe was young the Sorc/Sage lacked mobility and was prone to death. The Sorc/Sage cried out and a bubble was bestowed upon thy Sorc/Sage for the DEVS’s do not want thy creations to be subjected to many deaths for thou art Princess’s. Time passed and still the Sorc/Sage’s died and they cried out to the all might DEV’s who again granted them a boon and phase walk was bestowed upon them and they were told to go forward and multiply and thus so they have done so. No PVP will be ever lacking a bubble princess for their legions are many. Edited April 25, 2016 by Kazz_Devlin

[Kazz_Devlin]

Holding a node solo for 8+ seconds vs. anything ranging from a single attacker to a whole team is "not enough to ensure that you hold the node for the entire round", and is therefore ok? Why do sorcs deserve to be able to hold a node for 8 seconds vs. whatever? Also, 8 seconds (again, not counting bastion etc.) are more than enough for any competent help to come. At the very least to prevent the node from going to the enemy, if not to keep it yours.

 

 

 

The counter to barrier is E-net only preemtively. Yes, it's not bad, but the fact that only one AC in the game can counter a move is already dumb. It means that if someone chooses to sorc I can either go merc or go bang my head against the wall.

 

What's with all this "red mod" stuff? You'd think snipers can actually plan ahead to pick up the red mod. In other words, the point I'm making is that entrench+evasion (by the way, only usable as sharpshooter, as opposed to barrier) is not nearly as useful as you make it seem. Yes, snipers can still pick up any mod and use it. Will it be anywhere near as useful? No. Give a sniper a green mod and watch them die on the node they just activated...

 

 

I am arguing about the whole class for sure, but that's because the whole defensive package is a bit (a "bit") overtuned (regardless of DPS or whatever). Barrier in itself is too strong (I could live with the CC immunity as well as damage immunity if not for the mechanics immunity). Together with heals and PW you get a too many synergising abilities, and this stands out in OPG especially.

 

Uptime is not entirely irrelevant, that's true. But you missed the point where ops' lolroll is also immunity and no one cares! They have a longer uptime, but they can do less during their uptime, and they can be countered (by ways other than the early net). Their move needs some adjustment too (avoiding acid/fire pits, for example) but they are fine on this map.

 

As for entrech+evasion - I've covered that. But "especially if they're getting healed" - see, that's a fair exchange! if you're against a healer+dps, you need to work harder to win. But snipers don't heal themselves (unlike sorcs).

 

However, this whole thread is about how barrier allows you a larger advantage when guarding than any other DCD. This is factually true, and by a large margin. It also has virtually no counters. These are the reasons it should be adjusted to behave the same as stealthing out... which has many counters and offers 0 tactical advantage.

 

I agree, why in the nine hells do they still have barrier? You got your dam mobility, barrier needs to go especially for heal specs!

[Master-Nala]

Why do sorcs deserve to be able to hold a node for 8 seconds vs. whatever? Also, 8 seconds (again, not counting bastion etc.) are more than enough for any competent help to come. At the very least to prevent the node from going to the enemy, if not to keep it yours.

 

Why don't they deserve it? I bear no burden of proof or persuasion, I'm not trying to change anything. You're trying to change something. All you're saying is that it is a benefit. I agree. That doesn't automatically make it unfair.

 

What's with all this "red mod" stuff? You'd think snipers can actually plan ahead to pick up the red mod. In other words, the point I'm making is that entrench+evasion (by the way, only usable as sharpshooter, as opposed to barrier) is not nearly as useful as you make it seem. Yes, snipers can still pick up any mod and use it. Will it be anywhere near as useful? No. Give a sniper a green mod and watch them die on the node they just activated...

 

Likewise, having 8 seconds of defense on a node every 3 minutes isn't really as useful as you're suggesting either.

 

However, this whole thread is about how barrier allows you a larger advantage when guarding than any other DCD. This is factually true, and by a large margin. It also has virtually no counters. These are the reasons it should be adjusted to behave the same as stealthing out... which has many counters and offers 0 tactical advantage.

 

That's actually not true. There are other powers that allow a defender to hold. Perhaps not with the certainty that barrier allows, but its close. No semi-competent Juggernaut, Ops, Marauder or PT should fail to hold the node. I would offer that Juggernauts and Operatives are at least as good as Sorcs if not better.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Master-Nala

[Ansultares]

I bear no burden of proof or persuasion, I'm not trying to change anything.

That's poor logic.

[Master-Nala]

really? I don't think it is a serious question. absolutely none of your examples are close to the immunity barrier does (why do ppl call it bubble when bubble is actually another thing that the class does?). it breaks the mechanics of the map. you can neither dps nor push/pull the target. it's actually WORSE than stealth, b/c the area is so small that you're bound to pull a stealther out just by smashing in the middle. no other ability in the game prevents you from both killing OR moving the opponent at the same time.

 

For 8 seconds out of 180.

 

You guys are behaving as if Sorcs can use Barrier at will. I'm really starting to think that the real problem with Barrier is the feeling that you are helpless to do anything about it. It can't be the actual power's mechanics because it's just not up enough for all this complaining.

[Master-Nala]

That's poor logic.

 

You're correct, but only because it's not a logical argument at all, it's proposition.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Master-Nala

[Ruhun]

For 8 seconds out of 180.

 

You guys are behaving as if Sorcs can use Barrier at will. I'm really starting to think that the real problem with Barrier is the feeling that you are helpless to do anything about it. It can't be the actual power's mechanics because it's just not up enough for all this complaining.

 

It's barrier plus everything else in the sorcs toolset.

Every 3 mins, sure, but good luck taking it down with all its self heals, bubble stun, and phase walk.

By the time it rolls through all it's heal 2 fulls, stuns and bubbles, barrier is already up again.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ruhun

[Ansultares]

It can't be the actual power's mechanics because it's just not up enough for all this complaining.

Now that sorcs/sages comprise close to 40% of the composition of any given warzone, and sometimes as high as 80% (I've yet to see 100%), it can feel like it's up all the time.

 

It's barrier plus everything else in the sorcs toolset.

Every 3 mins, sure, but good luck taking it down with all its self heals, bubble stun, and phase walk.

By the time it rolls through all it's heal 2 fulls, stuns and bubbles, barrier is already up again.

You know he's trolling you, right? Edited April 26, 2016 by Ansultares

[Tsetso]

It's interesting that sorcs are so powerful in regs, whereas in ranked they truly are not overpowering. Two good dps shut them down fast, and a team with slight coordination can wreck them.

 

You take sorcs and throw them into regs, and suddenly they become these all-powerful gods. it's just humorous to me.

 

Then, you take the other two healers, and they are crap in ranked, yet they can manage alright in regs. Usually.

 

The class balance is wonky on this game, and it becomes even more wonky depending on what meta you are pvping in, and what the comps are.

 

Crap in ranked, really/? I call BS. If you ever played against 2 heal sorc/sages in ranked you'll understand why i instant quit when i see it. Even 2 madness sorc can pressure the opposite healer too much while self healing for a large amount. 2 heal sage/sorc is gg most of the games