Solution to negating premade advantage vs pugs.

[Vashadan]

Funny how this crap keeps coming up every full moon.

 

Silly how people do not see the real issue. When we are talking about premades, and since this is an MMO where people can and should not be denied to group up, then it literally means that the chance you will end up against one or even being with one on the same team in the same warzone is pretty high, since...wait for it...you are restricted to one single server.

And yes, it is the population issue, if there was a larger pool of players to draw from there might not be any need to seperate ques. Hell, maybe Bioware would even allow the option to choose which kind of PvP you wish to play, as in letting ppl select the maps themselves.

 

Since we do not have a larger pool of players to draw from nothing will change on this matter. Having one warzone, which keeps coming up more often than any other (except maybe for arenas) is the best we have right now. Even if Bioware made all warzones and all arenas cross-faction it would still be limited to the same people playing on the same server, so you would eventually end up against or with a premade, or at least more often unless the above was introduced in the future.

I think the horse that got beaten to death is turning into a pile of mashed...perish the thought.

It is all you got, take it or leave it and while we are at it, take some pity on that something something resembling a dead horse.....

[-Bob-]

and should people be forced to make groups?

you truly are a victim

I hope someday the judge lets you cancel your sub and doesn't force you to Que within the existing format, it's such a tragedy, oh the drama.

[Teriaon]

The only reason this keeps popping up is simply because it is one of the main reasons why PvP population is dropping, quality of games going shi*-level, and results in casual players abandoning PvP for good.

 

It pops up because its a problem. Simple.

 

 

 

...and should people be forced to make groups?

 

 

 

...why? According to who? That's certainly how the queueing is set up, but it's not if there's a great reason or morality behind it. The devs just made it that way.

 

So why should it just blindly stay that way? If there's a problem, the rules can change. Certainly all that crap the premade guys were spewing in the forums for the last two weeks straight has shown that they don't like the new queueing system because it leads to super long queueing times. It was confirmed that it wasn't a bug.

 

So they demanded a change, and got a change early this weak. This shows people can protest to problems in accordance to grievances they suffer in game, does it not?

 

Then, tell me, why there should be a "chance you will end up against one or even being with one on the same team in the same warzone" in the first place. This can be avoided systematically, no?

 

Seperate queues. Everyone is happy.

 

Why are the premade douches objecting to this?

 

 

 

 

Funny how everyone forgot to tell that to the premade guys who were whining last 2 weeks straight.

 

They certainly didn't want to "take it or leave it", and actually got what they wanted.

 

Tell me a good reason, then, why solo queuers should not be treated with same amount of respect.

 

Alright first of all, please dont stop making ranting posts like this, you provide endless amount of entertainment, secondly sure an option to only que aginst premades would be great, but it isent gonna happen, now obviously you should continue to ask for it if you belive it is posible.

 

And secondly about the fact that the option not to que wasent a bug.. well it was, it says in the patch notes that "Fixed an issue that caused groups to be unable to queue properly." the thing that was working as intended was the newest warzone popping more often then the others. You are clearly confused by these two issues. However if you belive that there is the playerbase needed to support two seperete ques for reg warzones, then by all means ask for it, just dont expect the rest of us to buy in on the fantasy.

[josephxp]

The real problem is ignorance and stupidity of some players who either do not know how important having 2018 expertise (i know so many people who are like why cant i have 2018 expertise rating... did u put in the 2 crystals for the +82 you missing?).

 

Some of the problems are that people don't know how to work in ops groups settings, or they dont focus on the main objective. Ex. People feel in the Ancient Hypergate WZ that orbs are not important at all to the WZ even though they are, I have been on teams where we lost control of both pylons 1 round and still won solely because of the orbs because our opponents avoided mid at all cost.

 

Another problem is that people don't pvp early on to get the experience when gear doesn't matter before lv 65, then when they hit lv 65 they dont have the 3k coms to get a full set of 204 gear to be some what competitive at lv 65. (Remember when it was a pain to get a full set of basic pvp gear? Thankfully with the lower cost of it people should be able to at least get 204 ASAP). And/Or don't know they can transfer coms (because stupidity cannot be fixed and some people don't read the patch notes).

 

The most recent issue is that an influx of people queing are those at lv 65 with 0 experience who are only doing it for the companion mission to get 20 WZ (or 10 with wins and any number in between, or 40 valor but non pvp'ers wont have 40 so they need to do the WZ's anyhow) done that was a HUGE mistake, pvp quality became poor after that so its a huge issue.

 

So how can you fix this?

 

1- Dont make Warzones required for a beloved companion like Pierce/4X which everyone is going to want to have because that floods pvp with players who are only doing pvp just for that nothing else. This would be the same case if you made a companion require GSF victories. Instead give it as an option for the 20 WZ and allow a 2nd option to be used like kill 300 opposite faction mobs on a planet.

 

2- Ignorance hurts, make sure to stress how important the full 2018 is and that you can transfer coms.

 

3- Common sense goes along way, just like with #1 if something is going to bring many poor quality players who will never touch WZ's again after their character gets that story related achievement/mission/companion don't do it. This is one of the major problems why this happens (unless your playing ranked).

[-Bob-]

The real problem is ignorance and stupidity of some players who either do not know how important having 2018 expertise (i know so many people who are like why cant i have 2018 expertise rating... did u put in the 2 crystals for the +82 you missing?).

 

Some of the problems are that people don't know how to work in ops groups settings, or they dont focus on the main objective. Ex. People feel in the Ancient Hypergate WZ that orbs are not important at all to the WZ even though they are, I have been on teams where we lost control of both pylons 1 round and still won solely because of the orbs because our opponents avoided mid at all cost.

 

Another problem is that people don't pvp early on to get the experience when gear doesn't matter before lv 65, then when they hit lv 65 they dont have the 3k coms to get a full set of 204 gear to be some what competitive at lv 65. (Remember when it was a pain to get a full set of basic pvp gear? Thankfully with the lower cost of it people should be able to at least get 204 ASAP). And/Or don't know they can transfer coms (because stupidity cannot be fixed and some people don't read the patch notes).

 

The most recent issue is that an influx of people queing are those at lv 65 with 0 experience who are only doing it for the companion mission to get 20 WZ (or 10 with wins and any number in between, or 40 valor but non pvp'ers wont have 40 so they need to do the WZ's anyhow) done that was a HUGE mistake, pvp quality became poor after that so its a huge issue.

 

So how can you fix this?

 

1- Dont make Warzones required for a beloved companion like Pierce/4X which everyone is going to want to have because that floods pvp with players who are only doing pvp just for that nothing else. This would be the same case if you made a companion require GSF victories. Instead give it as an option for the 20 WZ and allow a 2nd option to be used like kill 300 opposite faction mobs on a planet.

 

2- Ignorance hurts, make sure to stress how important the full 2018 is and that you can transfer coms.

 

3- Common sense goes along way, just like with #1 if something is going to bring many poor quality players who will never touch WZ's again after their character gets that story related achievement/mission/companion don't do it. This is one of the major problems why this happens (unless your playing ranked).

 

I Blame Syria!

[knowmyname]

I have a solution to negate the unfair advantage that premades have over pugs.

...

Get good, make friends, group up, join voice comms, and queue up

....

Fixed

 

This is a multiplayer game. War zones are team based game play.

The only thing wrong here is players refusing to group up and communicate as a team. Don't blame the players that group up for group content when you join a team solo.

 

Bads will always play victim and blame others to bring them down to their own filthy level

[Lundorff]

The easiest thing they could do is simply make any group of 2+ have to enter a group queue for regs. Just make "solo" queue actually be a solo queue. It's not complicated.

 

If people want to group for PVP, that's cool. They simply should be placed into a "group" queue to do it. Premades would then fight premades.

 

Oh, so the queues are taking longer because there aren't many groups queing? That's too bad. Join the solo queue for faster pops then.

 

The only issue is, people would try to queue sync for solo like they already do with double premades.

 

If there was cross faction queues, queue syncing would be less successful because of a larger pool of players being randomized into teams...

 

Anyway. The game encourages premades and people to group, because unless you are in one, depending on RNGesus to give you a good PUG group is truly like winning the lottery, it's highly unlikely.

 

Facing premades as a solo queing player can be very frustrating so to avoid that, many end up joining premades of their own.

 

As many will tell you, dead horse beaten.

 

My god, we completely agree on premades!

[Vashadan]

The only reason this keeps popping up is simply because it is one of the main reasons why PvP population is dropping, quality of games going shi*-level, and results in casual players abandoning PvP for good.

 

It pops up because its a problem. Simple.

Not the only problems, but fair enough...all of the above has been 1 of the several "problems" since this game was released, so yeah. It is all we had and got for now.

 

 

 

...and should people be forced to make groups?

No1 is forced to do groups. I rarely group up with others, just because most of these premades are bads. Their advantage only shows if they bring a healer or 2 in the match and my team has none. Everything else comes down to communication among the group and the individuals skill.

 

 

 

...why? According to who? That's certainly how the queueing is set up, but it's not if there's a great reason or morality behind it. The devs just made it that way.

Yup yup yup...spot on.

 

So why should it just blindly stay that way? If there's a problem, the rules can change. Certainly all that crap the premade guys were spewing in the forums for the last two weeks straight has shown that they don't like the new queueing system because it leads to super long queueing times. It was confirmed that it wasn't a bug.

 

So they demanded a change, and got a change early this weak. This shows people can protest to problems in accordance to grievances they suffer in game, does it not?

 

Then, tell me, why there should be a "chance you will end up against one or even being with one on the same team in the same warzone" in the first place. This can be avoided systematically, no?

 

Seperate queues. Everyone is happy.

 

Why are the premade douches objecting to this?

Cause time is money? Nah, I do see some defending this because they like to roll over others, easy wins and all but just IMO, on my behalf and all...it would do more harm than good considering how PvP has been set up since the very start.

 

 

 

Funny how everyone forgot to tell that to the premade guys who were whining last 2 weeks straight.

Nvm those people, for whatever good or bad reason they whined....

 

They certainly didn't want to "take it or leave it", and actually got what they wanted.

 

Tell me a good reason, then, why solo queuers should not be treated with same amount of respect.

 

 

Already posted why the system "works", with all its flaws and weaknesses at what it has provided the players with from the very beginning. It is far from perfect but BW wanted to reduce the time on ques, they can not do much more beyond cross-faction and a server-wide introduction, both to PvP and PvE.

This would bring GSF back to life as well, or at least get them more matches as it seems to be the most neglected part of the game so far.

I do not care if I end up against premades, they do not que all the time and most of them suck really bad. So I would rather have this than to wait even longer, for who knows how long to get into a match...and yes, something besides getting APG 24/7, and it is starting to feel that way.

And guess what, it would still be the same people from the same freaking server...I can not repeat this often enough, please see some sense behind this statement whenever you go for the issue of premades.

 

It is a population issue, it is restricted to a single server so 1st grasp that fact and you might see why everything you wish to happen for would even further "kill" PvP...unless, UNLESS they added a larger pool of players to draw from and then maybe you can get what you wish for.

Start with cross-faction for each PvP map and maybe 1 day....allowing for players to group up with more than just those on their own server.

 

Till then, it is all we got...repeat after me, a minigame . a minigame . a minigame . a minigame . . . .

[OmegaDagger]

I am not even sure how to respond to this....

 

Let me get this straight. You think "playing as a group" is an unfair advantage in a group based activity? You do realize how crazy that sounds. Actually, you probably dont.

 

P.S. I am kinda new here, but are there threads that claim that guild raid groups should have a 15% stat decrease to make raiding more "fair" for pug groups?

[Tsetso]

I am not even sure how to respond to this....

 

Let me get this straight. You think "playing as a group" is an unfair advantage in a group based activity? You do realize how crazy that sounds. Actually, you probably dont.

 

P.S. I am kinda new here, but are there threads that claim that guild raid groups should have a 15% stat decrease to make raiding more "fair" for pug groups?

 

If this game still had progression raiding and first kills competition, i'm sure there would be such threads

[sithBracer]

Why are people taking this thread seriously? BW will never do something so stupid and musco and tait are probably laughing at the OP and the people who are arguing in it at this moment (if they even bothered reading it). Edited April 21, 2016 by sithBracer

[Lhancelot]

My god, we completely agree on premades!

 

Thing is, unlike most on this topic, I am neutral.

 

I understand if I solo queue the disadvantage I am at if I face premades. I don't hate people who are in premades. I don't think premades are an imp-only phenomenon.

 

I have had fun in premades myself. I have found being in premades boring when the opposition are not premades and simply awful competition.

 

I have seen the good and the bad of both sides of this argument. I have played both sides.

 

The issue is how the devs made a system from the very beginning that shoveled solo queue players into the same queue as grouped players. How was this viewed as smart?

 

Who knows? Maybe in the beginning, when they had literally thousands on top of thousands of players, had they had a smarter PVP queuing system we'd still have thousands on top of thousands playing PVP?

 

The very constraining queue system that probably pushed some people away from PVP has ended up being the only viable queing system that can work now due to the population being so small. Ironic.

[Cherryluve]

The problem isn't premades. It is the fact that most premades are pvp players. You take out everyone but the serious pvpers and regardless if they run premades or not, every game would be fun and more challenging and a toss up of who would win. The amount of bad players in pvp has ruined pvp, not premades. I'm sorry but if you do 600 dps or 1k heals, etc, you aren't losing cuz there is a premade...you might as well sit down and kick your own butt since that is how helpful you are.

 

It isn't cuz they are on comms and they are grouped. Plain and simple....THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THEIR CLASS. If all dps in the warzone did at least 2k dps, 4k heals, on both teams, running premades wouldn't even be a discussion.

[Lhancelot]

The problem isn't premades. It is the fact that most premades are pvp players. You take out everyone but the serious pvpers and regardless if they run premades or not, every game would be fun and more challenging and a toss up of who would win. The amount of bad players in pvp has ruined pvp, not premades. I'm sorry but if you do 600 dps or 1k heals, etc, you aren't losing cuz there is a premade...you might as well sit down and kick your own butt since that is how helpful you are.

 

It isn't cuz they are on comms and they are grouped. Plain and simple....THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THEIR CLASS. If all dps in the warzone did at least 2k dps, 4k heals, on both teams, running premades wouldn't even be a discussion.

 

I get what you say here. But. You can't expect everyone to be pros in PVP. The matchmaking has no elo system to match up like skilled players, which would ultimately make for better contests.

 

This fact alone falls on devs and the system in place which is creating contests between people that have vast differences in skill level.

 

Premades typically are created to avoid the randomness of who they get placed on a team with, in a way to kind of create their own elo system for their own team.

 

The problem is when the other team a premade faces did not do the same, and lacks the player skill to even begin to compete with the premade.

 

I have been angry with a bad team, it's frustrating to solo queue and have nothing but 600dps or less to work with, or 500hps etc. That's why I have also joined premades to avoid such bad teams.

 

I don't blame the players for awful matches and contests though. I blame the system that sticks grouped players versus solo queued players, with zero ELO or any kind of matchmaking. That's the problem.

[Cherryluve]

Then you can't go complaining it's premades then that are ruining the game. But you can't really do a matching in skill level for regs because how do you determine that? Valor means nothing. Everything group based in MMO's is judged by dps and heals. You don't have enough dps in pve, you can't kill the boss. You don't have enough heals to keep up the tank? etc etc. The same could be said for pvp. You don't need to be a star but honestly, Star Wars isn't hard. You can spam buttons and easily do 1.5 -2k w/o knowing at all what you are doing.

 

I think there are just lots of really young kids playing. /shrug.

[Krazzorr]

When vsing premades, have you tried doing it better?

[Lundorff]

Then you can't go complaining it's premades then that are ruining the game.

 

Indirectly yes we can. Try-hard premades are the result of good players wanting to play alongside other good players and the end result is often a given; for both sides. Rather then spreading the PVP prowess equally on both sides, you suddenly have fist of experience on only one side.

[Khawsarole]

I haven't actually read anything on this thread besides the title and the original post, but I have a better solution: find friends.

[JargoFett]

I'm sorry that I like que'ing with my guildies and friends and that we like to use voice chat to talk amongst each other while we queue. I'm also sorry that it offends you so deeply that you've had to come to the forums and make yet another thread complaining about pre-mades vs solo players.

 

On a more serious note, I personally wouldn't mind que'ing against other groups in a non-ranked format. I miss being able to get a more serious match of 8v8 maps cause right now, whenever my group goes up against another serious group in regs, it's just a matter of who has a better off-team will win.

Edited April 21, 2016 by JargoFett

[Lhancelot]

I haven't actually read anything on this thread besides the title and the original post, but I have a better solution: find friends.

 

The truth about PVP and premades is the people you end up PVPing with most often times at best become good acqaintances. Rarely do they become "friends".

 

Of course, maybe the term "friend" means something different now than it did when I was younger and what I still consider a friend to be.

 

With the age of Facebook, Twitter, and all the other wonderful social media sites I can see how people consider someone they meet online and only know from seeing their avatar in a game as their friend though.

[Jake_Chambers]

With the age of Facebook, Twitter, and all the other wonderful social media sites I can see how people consider someone they meet online and only know from seeing their avatar in a game as their friend though.

 

I have seven boyfriends via swtor

[Khawsarole]

The truth about PVP and premades is the people you end up PVPing with most often times at best become good acqaintances. Rarely do they become "friends".

Find acquaintances.

[Lhancelot]

Find acquaintances.

 

yeah much better. or just, "find people to pvp with".

[Lhancelot]

I have seven boyfriends via swtor

 

I don't know if I am jealous, or disturbed.

[cool-dude]

I think the problem stems from being spoiled by companions in pve. Some people are so use to companions, that they cannot handle anything remotely challenging, so demand that pvp or whatever bend to their difficulty level. Since the age of the overpowered companions, I have seen more rage quits in pvp and in flashpoints than I ever did. Edited April 21, 2016 by cool-dude