Thoronmir Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 When did I ever condemn anyone in this thread specifically? This argument only started because some guy didn't like that I was calling people rip off artists for being rip off artists.I'll let that sink in. I'm not offering advice. I'm rebutting your arguments ... we're all rebutting your arguments. Successfully, I add. That you ignore our positions and cling to your "I don't like it" whine proves you're not here for a discussion. Well, I should add that I'm certain your open to a discussion about why you're right and wise and exactly what the game needs. But that would be a very one-sided conversation and the better place for it would be a mirror rather than these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 Because this is the very system you are arguing. Of course, you don't like the system when it costs you more. No it isn't. If they choose to sell it for less, so be it. They're only doing that so they can sell faster and that's up to them. They shouldn't, however, be able to sell the item for obscene amounts of credits. A 10 million credit limit would be fine, what's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Never, what is your point? Why in the world would I do that? If charging more than the fair price (determined arbitrarily rather than via market forces) is ripping someone off, it must mean that paying less than the fair price is ripping someone off, taking advantage of the ignorance of the seller for their own greedy ends. This leads to only two conclusions: 1) Your idea that there should be an automatic fair price is wrong, and prices should be determined by market forces (most obviously supply and demand). or 2) You've taken advantage of people and are, in fact, a ripoff artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'll let that sink in. I'm not offering advice. I'm rebutting your arguments ... we're all rebutting your arguments. Successfully, I add. That you ignore our positions and cling to your "I don't like it" whine proves you're not here for a discussion. Well, I should add that I'm certain your open to a discussion about why you're right and wise and exactly what the game needs. But that would be a very one-sided conversation and the better place for it would be a mirror rather than these forums. Specifically. Spe. cif. ic. ally. Please point out where I called you or anyone else here a rip off artist specifically. I haven't ignored your positions, but you haven't said anything that's going to drastically change my mind yet. The only good point anyone's made was about the almonds and that situation very loosely applies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I don't have to accept what you're saying for it to be a discussion, I didn't open this thread for your advice. No, you opened a thread under the disguise of wanting/seeking a trade/sell sub section on the forums yet you open it up with raging about the current prices for said item and how you don't want to pay a certain amount for it. Then you mention forum sections somewhere in between and finish it off with a "rip off artists" accusation. Now you're surprised that people are firing back at you with sane logic? Silly. None of your tantrum about prices and "rip of artists" even had anything to do with the false premise of your thread, you could have left it all out and been fine. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 No it isn't. If they choose to sell it for less, so be it. They're only doing that so they can sell faster and that's up to them. They shouldn't, however, be able to sell the item for obscene amounts of credits. A 10 million credit limit would be fine, what's wrong with that? And you of course get to decide what that limit is right? Price caps do not take inflation into account (which is pretty steep in this game), and as such would become useless pretty fast. If you place a 10 mil price cap on the GTN, there will be an ever increasing number of items that will just never be listed. Right now you can buy a saber for 20 mil or so. Put a 10 mil cap on and you won't even have that choice. This whole argument smells like some evil Trump-Marx zombie baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 If charging more than the fair price (determined arbitrarily rather than via market forces) is ripping someone off, it must mean that paying less than the fair price is ripping someone off, taking advantage of the ignorance of the seller for their own greedy ends. This leads to only two conclusions: 1) Your idea that there should be an automatic fair price is wrong, and prices should be determined by market forces (most obviously supply and demand). or 2) You've taken advantage of people and are, in fact, a ripoff artist. No, I said there should be a limit to how much people can charge, that's the only way to protect people from getting ripped off. If a seller is charging 200k for an item that he can clearly see is selling for 500k, then he's doing to so the item can sell faster. There are no "ignorant" sellers using the GTN. Now if you mean a genuine mistake like put an item for 90k instead of 900k, then no I've never bought from someone that did that. And even if I had, I wasn't intentionally ripping them off, that's a mistake on their part that they have to take responsibility for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Specifically. Spe. cif. ic. ally. Please point out where I called you or anyone else here a rip off artist specifically. I haven't ignored your positions, but you haven't said anything that's going to drastically change my mind yet. The only good point anyone's made was about the almonds and that situation very loosely applies here. I see. It only counts if you insult someone who happens to read this thread. Good to know. The almonds scenario is simple application of supply-and-demand. So, you now accept that supply-and-demand at least "loosely applies here." Good. Thanks for that concession. I know you're a troll and all, but can't you at least vary your rhetoric? It's grown quite stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 And you of course get to decide what that limit is right? Price caps do not take inflation into account (which is pretty steep in this game), and as such would become useless pretty fast. If you place a 10 mil price cap on the GTN, there will be an ever increasing number of items that will just never be listed. Right now you can buy a saber for 20 mil or so. Put a 10 mil cap on and you won't even have that choice. This whole argument smells like some evil Trump-Marx zombie baby. I'm anti-Trump, but I'm pro-consumer and there's no reason for someone not to sell an item if they don't need it. If credit hoarding becomes a problem, then put a cap on player credits, let's say 250 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Oh if only you spent half as much time on actually farming the credits needed to buy your item rather than argue about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 I see. It only counts if you insult someone who happens to read this thread. Good to know. The almonds scenario is simple application of supply-and-demand. So, you now accept that supply-and-demand at least "loosely applies here." Good. Thanks for that concession. I know you're a troll and all, but can't you at least vary your rhetoric? It's grown quite stale. I NEVER said supply and demand didn't apply here, I said it was a load of baloney. Not those exact words, but you get the idea. My T-Shirt scenario is a far better example of what's going on here and it demonstrates how usually the term "supply and demand" is just an excuse to rip you off. And by the way, a troll's primary purpose is to antagonize and I really couldn't care less if you feel antagonized or not. I didn't even start this argument, someone else did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I'm anti-Trump, but I'm pro-consumer and there's no reason for someone not to sell an item if they don't need it. If credit hoarding becomes a problem, then put a cap on player credits, let's say 250 million. Just pointing out that I predicted a subscriber's credit cap as well. Either I can read minds or the OP is trolling his own thread by making my predictions come true. <Thoronmir peers into his crystal ball> I see the OP invoking some version of "I know you are but what am I?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Oh if only you spent half as much time on actually farming the credits needed to buy your item rather than argue about it.. I made 143m today. Bought a ton of decorations though so it's about even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 No, I said there should be a limit to how much people can charge, that's the only way to protect people from getting ripped off. If a seller is charging 200k for an item that he can clearly see is selling for 500k, then he's doing to so the item can sell faster. There are no "ignorant" sellers using the GTN. If no sellers on the GTN are ignorant, then they must be aware of the market price. Ergo, if the listed price for a lightsaber is 20 million credits, that must be a price that reflects the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 Just pointing out that I predicted a subscriber's credit cap as well. Either I can read minds or the OP is trolling his own thread by making my predictions come true. <Thoronmir peers into his crystal ball> I see the OP invoking some version of "I know you are but what am I?" You gave me these ideas, you didn't predict anything. There's nothing wrong with a subscriber credit cap, people just want to be greedy like I've been saying. 250 million credits is more than enough to get anything you want in this game and stay secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I made 143m today. Bought a ton of decorations though so it's about even. What the hell?! In a DAY? I've been here since launch and I suck at making $...I probably haven't made that total since I've been playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) subscriber credit cap It's supposed to be about 4b. It's kept as a 32bit integer. I can;t find the thread right off as there's too many "increase cap for preferred/f2p" threads. Edited April 13, 2016 by dr_mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 If no sellers on the GTN are ignorant, then they must be aware of the market price. Ergo, if the listed price for a lightsaber is 20 million credits, that must be a price that reflects the market. Exactly, and the market price is too damn high. Players shouldn't be able to charge that much, which brings me back to the 10 million credit GTN cap and 250 million credit player cap that everyone seems to have an irrational problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 What the hell?! In a DAY? I've been here since launch and I suck at making $...I probably haven't made that total since I've been playing. Maybe he's GTN flipping? That's a whooooole bunch of money to make in a single day. Seems unlikely it's from crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I NEVER said supply and demand didn't apply here, I said it was a load of baloney.No. I'm holding you to your admission that supply-and-demand applies to SWTOR economics. Your attempt to backtrack doesn't make sense. As for the T-shirt analogy, it is fatally flawed. The light sabers are not a "limited edition" item. There is no fixed number of them. EA/BW will make more. They're just rare. This is not a case like when the Franklin Mint produces a limited number of Buffalo Head Memorial Coins, then breaks the mold, thus capping quantity to encourage buying. These sabers are 10 carat diamonds. Rare, sure. But someone may always find more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I made 143m today. Bought a ton of decorations though so it's about even. I haven't made that in game.. ever. But truth be told, as much as I'd like to have the credits to buy whatever I feel like buying.. I want none of it bad enough to actually dedicate myself to credit farming or really play the GTN. And I know this of myself so despite not having the funds to buy what I want, I'm not gonna cry about it either because I know I COULD have it if I actually made the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCT Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 What the hell?! In a DAY? I've been here since launch and I suck at making $...I probably haven't made that total since I've been playing. Just switched to my "Hypercrate Char", and he's made 50 million today. With no more effort than posting stuff on GTN. I wonder what I'll do with this money - maybe go hunting for some Arbiters sabers, buy them up then put them back on for 100m, just for the hell of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Exactly, and the market price is too damn high. Players shouldn't be able to charge that much, which brings me back to the 10 million credit GTN cap and 250 million credit player cap that everyone seems to have an irrational problem with. 10 million credits for a "simple melee weapon" is acceptable to you? Why? What makes 20 million a "rip off", but 10 million is okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Exactly, and the market price is too damn high. Players shouldn't be able to charge that much, which brings me back to the 10 million credit GTN cap and 250 million credit player cap that everyone seems to have an irrational problem with. For what reason should players not be able to charge what the item is worth, which is what market price is? And if market price is not what an item is worth, then are you going to begin reimbursing everyone you ripped off for purchasing at prices below what the item is worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Exactly, and the market price is too damn high. Players shouldn't be able to charge that much, which brings me back to the 10 million credit GTN cap and 250 million credit player cap that everyone seems to have an irrational problem with. Yes! Now you're changing your trolling rhetoric. It's not irrational to oppose anyone dictating how much I can earn. It's not irrational to oppose anyone dictating the value of my goods for sale. It is even less irrational (yeah, I know that's not a thing) for someone to make those choices arbitrarily. Your suggestion hurts the game. Edited April 13, 2016 by Thoronmir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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