Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[peter_plankskull]

You seem to contradict yourself there somewhat ... I don't think spam means what you think it means.

 

Meh I did a little bit.... yeah its not the easiest to spam the homing rockets, but its still plausible. I would prefer a limited amount of ammo rather than a cool down to prevent unlimited use.

 

It would favor experienced players too much ... I mean already they can easily get the pickup but once they die it's there for someone else to get if they so choose before the player who died can reach the spawn again.

I personally would have favored totally random spawn drops for the pickup so it can't be camped.

 

They need to still make it attractive to casuals and new players in that they do get a chance to get a vehicle or be the hero even if they suck else you end up with the mess that is this games style PVP where gear is everything and casuals can't be assed bothering to try gear up thus don't bother with PVP.

I think casuals at one point should know their not able to obtain everything in the game unless they try, and if they always want to feel the power of the heroes, theirs always Heroes and Villains mode or even offline. If they want that awesome power up, I think they should strive their hardest and feel like they actually earned it, knowing they topped the leaderboards and it gives a bigger amount of satisfaction compared to RNG just handing it to you.

 

Yup they can ... in a way it's more realistic in that regard. I personally always felt restricted maps to be somwhat cheesy in terms of realism.

 

Personally I prefer gameplay over realism unless it specifically milism like ARMA or something. Battlefront seems more arcade than a realistic sci fi shooter and I think the maps should be someone formatted to be slightly restrictive but not to much to hurt the overall gameplay of people unless your a mountain sniper.

 

I don't need to think of it, turning point and surpremacy are my favourite modes and it's just as simple to avoid the rocket in those. Yes it gets chaotic ... welcome to war. If you need it all scripted out for you and simple to grasp then you can't dislike battlefront because it's too simple ... you are sounding like you don't like it because it's too hard.

 

Not to hard per say... but not as many controlled factors that I can manipulate to prevent a death that I would like. Yeah every now and then I get that odd death in battlefield... some random mortar... grenade... a UCAV... something unavoidable, but for the most part most of the factors in the game aren't such a balance breaker like explosive shots to were it can be avoided or dealt with.

 

If you have 7 in front of you then you've put yourself into a situation you should die in for the most part ... if you don't awesome you're super skilled but that's an exception not a rule.

 

Again you sound like you find this game too difficult and are expecting something simpler ... then yes it's not the game for you.

 

Probably should of used a better example honestly and filled in some of the blanks. Its not like its a 7v1 were im out in the open, but a 7v4 each in separate rooms and they immediately grenade spam the heck out of us. Rather than them using their grenades wisely, they just all use their gadgets knowing its going to be refreshed soon after rather than a special one off in battlefield, or a ton of time next time a ammo box. Giving them unlimited resources allows less of a tactical edge knowing your resources will eventually be replenished. Imagine unlimited vehicles that respawn right after death without altering the server rules in battlefield.... vehicles are no longer resourceful or used as tactically knowing you can use them as trash.

 

Slower than battlefield ... not sure what you're on about here.

 

Welp... I may have to take a look at how fast the rounds move in each of the games again.

Edited April 23, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Krazzorr]

They even said before the new expac hit off that it will be story driven with no new raids. MAYBE we'll get one once the new main story is over, but that's just a maybe.

 

I mean really, why is this still a big thing? I think it was a great idea revamping all new dungeons/raids for max level, made a lot of people come back and even got the eyes of new people.

 

If you just play this game for raids then you're playing the wrong MMO.

 

You mean besides spending probably over a million dollars on non repeatable content that most people space bar after maybe like the 2nd -3rd time? So here... let's break it down.... The KOTFE story is supposed to last about 20 hours. So if we are generous, and say people won't space bar the thing until say the 3rd time, that's 60 hours of content per person that they are actually going through, IF they even do that... I know that for all of my characters except 2, I have not done the story at all. So, 40 hours of content total for that story for me throughout the year.

 

Now, let's talk about raids and pvp maps etc. The level sync was a great idea trust me. I support it! But let's think about what would happen if they took the time of developing KOTFE stories and split that between 2 things, Raids and PvP Maps. How many maps and raids do we think they could get accomplished? I would say 5 each? Would that be fair in a year?

 

That is what we call sustainable and repeatable content. So, say they released them periodically, throughout the year, as guilds were conquering one raid, another opens up, and then another and another etc. That's repeatable content and challenging. Not mind numbing story.

 

 

Most game development professionals agree that a great story can't save crappy game play but great game play can save a crappy story.

[Eanelinea]

You are the exception, not the rule. If you were we wouldn't have had letters like Ben's and the response it got.

 

This is true. There's tons to do in the game and alot of the veterans (meaning those who HAVE Founder titles and have been here since 1.0 or since beta) aren't as many as there was. So the new people have a **** ton of things to do (except the Chevin event of course). But people ONLY want one thing or another and get mad when it's not around. I KNOW Bioware will make another raid, but what I can't say for certain is WHEN. Could be end of this year, or end of next year.

[TheSeventhJedi]

This is true. There's tons to do in the game and alot of the veterans (meaning those who HAVE Founder titles and have been here since 1.0 or since beta) aren't as many as there was. So the new people have a **** ton of things to do (except the Chevin event of course). But people ONLY want one thing or another and get mad when it's not around. I KNOW Bioware will make another raid, but what I can't say for certain is WHEN. Could be end of this year, or end of next year.

 

I'm curious as to how you supposedly KNOW such a thing. I mean, it should be common sense, but BW haven't proved they're capable of that to me. Regardless of what you think the percentage of people who raid actively is, what I think is that I've logged three nights in a row into an empty guild and it's really starting to be a bummer.

[Slowpokeking]

I'm curious as to how you supposedly KNOW such a thing. I mean, it should be common sense, but BW haven't proved they're capable of that to me. Regardless of what you think the percentage of people who raid actively is, what I think is that I've logged three nights in a row into an empty guild and it's really starting to be a bummer.

 

Current game got problem doesn't mean the route of raid was the way to go.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Current game got problem doesn't mean the route of raid was the way to go.

 

Not saying it's the only problem, but it's the reason for the last 100 people in my guild who left the game.

[Slowpokeking]

Not saying it's the only problem, but it's the reason for the last 100 people in my guild who left the game.

 

But raid content cost a lot of money like the analyst said in the interview, yet only like 10-15% of the players were doing the new HM during 3.0. It's not like Bioware didn't try to focus on raid before, but it didn't work well either. Sure some guilds love to raid, but more people can't find the group. This was what we were talking about, raid/ops require change. Many many modern gamers prefer drop in-drop out content.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Max_Killjoy]

It's a problem because they spent more on KotFE's CGI trailer than they have on Ops since it came out.

[TheSeventhJedi]

But raid content cost a lot of money like the analyst said in the interview, yet only like 10-15% of the players were doing the new HM during 3.0. It's not like Bioware didn't try to focus on raid before, but it didn't work well either. Sure some guilds love to raid, but more people can't find the group. This was what we were talking about, raid/ops require change. Many many modern gamers prefer drop in-drop out content.

 

Well, there's plenty of that at the moment with more on the way - so surely the game is as alive and well as Ben says it is, and he posted his letter because nothing was wrong.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, there's plenty of that at the moment with more on the way - so surely the game is as alive and well as Ben says it is, and he posted his letter because nothing was wrong.

 

Whether there's something wrong "with the game", there's certainly something wrong in the forums, and one could interpret the letter as an attempt to counter the intensity here without it being about the game as a broader whole.

[Slowpokeking]

Well, there's plenty of that at the moment with more on the way - so surely the game is as alive and well as Ben says it is, and he posted his letter because nothing was wrong.

 

The problem is that the stories could only be played once per character and there is only 1 story right now.

 

It would have been better if there are story achievement which let you to repeat story and take all the special challenge like GW2. Also I think solo/group content like the revamped heroics/SF/EC is the way to go, they just need to fix the bug of SF and make it shorter.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This is true. There's tons to do in the game and alot of the veterans (meaning those who HAVE Founder titles and have been here since 1.0 or since beta) aren't as many as there was. So the new people have a **** ton of things to do (except the Chevin event of course). But people ONLY want one thing or another and get mad when it's not around. I KNOW Bioware will make another raid, but what I can't say for certain is WHEN. Could be end of this year, or end of next year.

 

See you have the crux of the issue right there ... knowing they will do another raid. I wish I had your confidence and I did until Ben's post ... the smoke and mirrors to me says they may not do another one as we know it ( i'm happy for smaller ones like 2 boss raids regularly released as long as it's still that same sort of fun, group structure raids have now ).

All he had to do was say a raid was being worked on but couldn't say anymore but that post was so carefully structured I am more confident we won't see another raid any time soon than we will ... I hope I'm wrong.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Whether there's something wrong "with the game", there's certainly something wrong in the forums, and one could interpret the letter as an attempt to counter the intensity here without it being about the game as a broader whole.

 

Ah, but the forums have always been toxic - and if you believe that there was some magic level of forum toxicity that made homeskillet decide to drop in and make a giant PR post, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

The problem is that the stories could only be played once per character and there is only 1 story right now.

 

It would have been better if there are story achievement which let you to repeat story and take all the special challenge like GW2. Also I think solo/group content like the revamped heroics/SF/EC is the way to go, they just need to fix the bug of SF and make it shorter.

 

Oh sure, if there were lots of different stories, I'm sure there would be a lot less whining. However, they couldn't even do a good job of making choices matter with one story - what makes you think they could handle eight again?

 

Also, revamping old content is only good if there's new content to go along with it. It's great for new players, but is it any surprise how many people didn't feel like sticking around to run the same old stuff for a different rep faction across all their alts?

[Laiov]

The problem with not releasing new raid tiers in my opinion has more to do with MMO gaming culture. Once a raid has been out for several months, a year, or whatever extensive period of time, the requirements that raiders expect for the entry level into those raids becomes inflated. "Must have finished the basic quest line" and "must have augments" later becomes "must have completed this raid before" and "must have most of the gear that drops from this raid". This is especially true when pugging.

 

New tiers reset that nonsense.

[Slowpokeking]

Or, remove ops lockout.

[CorellianWannabe]

I agree. As a former hardcore raider, I think Uruare encapsulated it very well.

 

That said, generally speaking... people who are still in to raiding.... they will dismiss or attack what Uruare stated.

 

One thing I will always appreciate with WoW is that it taught me, over time, how silly the raid model is for MMO content consumption. There are better methods for group content, and there has been some good innovation in the market. Which is not to say that there should be no raids in MMOs, but the ad nauseam hard core approach has too much overhead beyond just doing the content. It is the mother of all treadmills in MMOs.. and as people realized this and pushed back, the genre has responded with more turn-key and less needlessly complex raid content. This of course has inflamed some of the remaining hard core MMO raiders.

 

So what are these "better methods for group content" and why has EA not implemented any of them in favor of a poorly-written story with even poorer gameplay and little to no replay value unless players really want a scrolling list of companions?

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Wow nice necro...what really is it going to accomplish bring this thread back to view? everything that has been said has been said on both sides. The only thing this will accomplish is yet another yelling at each other thread. Retreading the same old arguments.

 

Neither side will listen to the other, and what BW decided to do, will be what they decide to do. Pretty sure the bashing raiders horse is beaten to death...

[BrotherJohn]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion

 

Nah its a fact. its terrible.

[BrotherJohn]

So what are these "better methods for group content" and why has EA not implemented any of them in favor of a poorly-written story with even poorer gameplay and little to no replay value unless players really want a scrolling list of companions?

 

There is no better method to deliver content such as a raid. the issue is they wanted to try to grow a game with no content at all. if the story was 8 seperate stories over 16 chapters much like the original vanilla swtor, they would not be going through it issues they currently have with the game. this is even with no new raid content.

 

The story is important in any game BUT you need to deliver something so epic in story and so diverse in replay that a single storyline with a very rigid enviornment and very little to no reward worth while, well spells a mess called kotfe.

 

the worst of it all is they really truly believe they have succeed with this chapter garbage and just blissfully ignore the major pile the game has fallen deep into.

[AurraPing]

They even said before the new expac hit off that it will be story driven with no new raids. MAYBE we'll get one once the new main story is over, but that's just a maybe.

 

I mean really, why is this still a big thing? I think it was a great idea revamping all new dungeons/raids for max level, made a lot of people come back and even got the eyes of new people.

 

If you just play this game for raids then you're playing the wrong MMO.

 

Think of it this way SWTOR:Kotfe is like wow with Legions expansion but the last raid they got was in Burning Crusade

[ThrakhathSpawn]

*IF* we'd gotten a good story, it wouldn't be so bad. Instead we got a monthly cartel pack release and a lot of filler that never went anywhere or accomplished anything.

 

When you finish a chapter in a class story, you felt like you did something, like you moved along in the galaxy. KOTFE you spend your entire time crushed under a rock in a landslide. Frustrating, and boring.

[Chiltonium]

They even said before the new expac hit off that it will be story driven with no new raids. MAYBE we'll get one once the new main story is over, but that's just a maybe.

 

I mean really, why is this still a big thing? I think it was a great idea revamping all new dungeons/raids for max level, made a lot of people come back and even got the eyes of new people.

 

If you just play this game for raids then you're playing the wrong MMO.

 

Sounds like you're playing the wrong type of game in general. MMO with no end game, is not an MMO. People who have played SWTOR the MMO for 3-4 years dont want to see it become SWTOR the single player RPG.

 

More people joined? Caught the eye of new people? Their sub count drops and drops and drops. My guild of 200 people disbanded. All my friends from the Navy I got to play with me quit. All my friends I met in SWTOR over the last few years have quit. I literally dont know anyone IRL who plays SWTOR anymore, and I used to know hundreds.

 

*IF* we'd gotten a good story, it wouldn't be so bad. Instead we got a monthly cartel pack release and a lot of filler that never went anywhere or accomplished anything.

 

When you finish a chapter in a class story, you felt like you did something, like you moved along in the galaxy. KOTFE you spend your entire time crushed under a rock in a landslide. Frustrating, and boring.

 

on top of it, this.

 

The chapters were stupidly short. There was no deviation. The choices -didn't- matter. And it made absolutely 0 sense for non force users. This is bioware. They needed to have branching paths, explorable enviroments with hidden things (quests, items, lore). You walked in a straight line and listened to a storybook tale. That is not interactive gaming. That is what 3 year olds do to fall asleep.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Chiltonium

[nepochop]

Nice necro, i enjoy talking about this over and over cause its sad and true. Like people said, player drop is real, yes its going up and down true, but look at the facts (which are few) at start there many servers, they had to merge cause it was too much, the population has been getting smaller ever since thats y they removed server capacity info and thats y we have so few servers, dont tell me we have 1 mil subs (more like 100k subs).

 

I love the game, but am also waiting for sub to expire, started WoW which has new radis, 10 new dungeons and sooo many quests and stuff to do, was worth every penny!

 

Yes an MMO needs to have raids and group stuff, not only story and Eternal champion ship. Also, Star Fortress is a cheap excusse for group content. I dont wanna expand it all, much has been said here already only this:

 

Story is nice, but short and weak, events are crap, no group content, no repeatable content, nothing to do, grind and enjoy, bugs, lags etc. The game is not doing well, but we miss the old good times!

[tummiswtor]

Sorry 1/10 not really worth discussing with you....

 

<claps>

[PlasmaJohn]

the worst of it all is they really truly believe they have succeed with this chapter garbage and just blissfully ignore the major pile the game has fallen deep into.

 

Think of it as one of the worst examples of corporate inertia. If KotET wasn't already in the cards when KotFE was launched, it was probably greenlit after how well the initial KotFE launch went. It took until early 2016 before population started to decline again. Unfortunately with how thin the talent seems to be in Austin, they simply don't have the agility needed to adjust course so darn the iceberg! Full steam ahead!

 

This is precisely why tunneling on a single content type for an entire release cycle is a BadIdea™. To make it even more tragic, they're repeating the same novice mistake for another release cycle.

 

Oh well, I suppose my $15 every year or two is "good enough" for them.