New Chapter: Visions in the dark - Post your thoughts

[Slowpokeking]

 

Revan is a Mary Sue, but it's because Bioware turned him into one with the novels and the game, trying to pander to the us darn cultists that form his fanbase (yes we pretty much are more or less cultists when it comes to Revan). I didn't like it myself.

 

~ Eudoxia

Revan isn't really a Sue, he just got some Sue traits.

[JLazarillo]

Just finished it, I'm kinda ambivalent. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't as interesting as the previous two, honestly. But then, I main a Scoundrel and I'm not much for mystic mumbo-jumbo, so that might have something to do with it. A few thoughts that came to mind as I went through it:

• Valkorion was a freaking pushover. I don't think I ever dropped below 90% health, but that made the fact that the fight suddenly shifting to a cutscene where I'm getting my butt kicked a little annoying.
  
• The weapon shell is ugly and the Barrel is weaker than my normal one.
  
• Sorta mentioned this one above, but the Kaliyo/Jorgan story seemed pretty awesome. I feel like we get these little teasers at the beginning/end of actual chapters that are more interesting in terms of story than the chapters themselves.
  
• Once again, things end up a pain to play as a Scoundrel, since everything auto-aggros you even in Stealth.
  
• Was there a point to the cairns scattered about? It felt like for the vast majority of them, by the time I was in range to use one, it would've been easier just to finish walking to it anyway.
  

 

And a plot-related thing that occurred to me, hiding behind a spoiler tag:

 

Did anyone else get the impression that the Satele and Marr we met weren't the real Satele and Marr? It seemed...awfully convenient to me that after Valk and I had our little spat over not fulfilling my destiny and crap because I won't take his power, two other more trustworthy individuals show up and start more or less persuading me to believe the same things Valk was trying to persuade me to believe. And then they pull the whole "well, we have something important and nondescript to do over on the other side of the galaxy, be seeing you!" when I invite them to come help out. I'm quite suspicious...

 

[Slowpokeking]

Vitiate wasn't able to conquer the galaxy before KOTFE, the Zakuul Empire was able to do it in 5 years, let the great Jedi/Sith to rethink a new way, able to rule with cartoonishly evil (chop down your own knights by half).

 

The Zakuul Empire was more like a Sue obviously.

[Slowpokeking]

Just finished it, I'm kinda ambivalent. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't as interesting as the previous two, honestly. But then, I main a Scoundrel and I'm not much for mystic mumbo-jumbo, so that might have something to do with it. A few thoughts that came to mind as I went through it:

• Valkorion was a freaking pushover. I don't think I ever dropped below 90% health, but that made the fact that the fight suddenly shifting to a cutscene where I'm getting my butt kicked a little annoying.
  
• The weapon shell is ugly and the Barrel is weaker than my normal one.
  
• Sorta mentioned this one above, but the Kaliyo/Jorgan story seemed pretty awesome. I feel like we get these little teasers at the beginning/end of actual chapters that are more interesting in terms of story than the chapters themselves.
  
• Once again, things end up a pain to play as a Scoundrel, since everything auto-aggros you even in Stealth.
  
• Was there a point to the cairns scattered about? It felt like for the vast majority of them, by the time I was in range to use one, it would've been easier just to finish walking to it anyway.
  

 

And a plot-related thing that occurred to me, hiding behind a spoiler tag:

 

Did anyone else get the impression that the Satele and Marr we met weren't the real Satele and Marr? It seemed...awfully convenient to me that after Valk and I had our little spat over not fulfilling my destiny and crap because I won't take his power, two other more trustworthy individuals show up and start more or less persuading me to believe the same things Valk was trying to persuade me to believe. And then they pull the whole "well, we have something important and nondescript to do over on the other side of the galaxy, be seeing you!" when I invite them to come help out. I'm quite suspicious...

 

Yeah, Satele and Marr were obviously out of their characters.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Yeah, Satele and Marr were obviously out of their characters.

 

 

And the fact that she basically freezes you if you try and kill her seems FAR more like Vitiate/Valkorion than like something Satele is canonically capable of. Remember he constantly "froze" scenes so he could talk to you in chapters 1-9. There's also the possibility they may both be under Valkorion's control, as he was able to do it to other force-sensitives in the past. It's also quite clear he's far more than a simple force ghost.

 

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[IanArgent]

And a plot-related thing that occurred to me, hiding behind a spoiler tag:

 

Did anyone else get the impression that the Satele and Marr we met weren't the real Satele and Marr? It seemed...awfully convenient to me that after Valk and I had our little spat over not fulfilling my destiny and crap because I won't take his power, two other more trustworthy individuals show up and start more or less persuading me to believe the same things Valk was trying to persuade me to believe. And then they pull the whole "well, we have something important and nondescript to do over on the other side of the galaxy, be seeing you!" when I invite them to come help out. I'm quite suspicious...

 

Lazy writers is more likely to me.

[Slowpokeking]

And the fact that she basically freezes you if you try and kill her seems FAR more like Vitiate/Valkorion than like something Satele is canonically capable of. Remember he constantly "froze" scenes so he could talk to you in chapters 1-9.

 

 

~ Eudoxia

 

It really feels bad that I was owning Valkorion throughout the battle and in the story he was stomping me.

[Slowpokeking]

Lazy writers is more likely to me.

 

I can accept them working together, but not something like they thought Jedi/Sith Way was wrong to go(not strong enough) is really pissing me off and lead to this argument, especially when we are talking about Arcann, a joke compare to the great Jedi Masters/Sith Lords in history.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[FlavivsAetivs]

It really feels bad that I was owning Valkorion throughout the battle and in the story he was stomping me.

 

I think that's because the problem is it's geared towards start-at-60's or people who levelled up after 4.0 with 190 green gear and have no idea how to play their class, and not people like me in 220/224 mix with a very good rotation.

 

Or once more, lazy writers/coders.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[IanArgent]

I think that's because the problem is it's geared towards start-at-60's or people who levelled up after 4.0 with 190 green gear and have no idea how to play their class, and not people like me in 220/224 mix with a very good rotation.

 

Or once more, lazy writers/coders.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

That's not lazy, that's realistic - they have to make the content accessible to start at 60s and folks too cheap to gear up other than in dropped 190s

[Slowpokeking]

I think that's because the problem is it's geared towards start-at-60's or people who levelled up after 4.0 with 190 green gear and have no idea how to play their class, and not people like me in 220/224 mix with a very good rotation.

 

Or once more, lazy writers/coders.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

The problem is not some script/lines, but they are trying to put 8 different characters, each got a long and entirely different history, with totally different achievement into one storyline that wasn't set up during the class story's release. So the disconnection/awkwardness is unable to avoid, even for Force User classes.

[ekwalizer]

My opinion on it was the chapter was really good. First one I can say I really enjoyed since we started the one a month cycle. The feel of it was what got me I think. Had a good tip of the ice berg type feel with some good dialogue. Felt very star warsy to me.

 

Now to spend the rest of my time trying to get the Rishi Arena to pop cause arenas are awesome, and good lord have I been looking forward to that new one.

 

 

I think the story was very good, and if anyone remembers I was pretty critical of the story up to this point. I felt like the critter combat sequences were kind of lame.

 

The puzzle for the Khem Val clone was interesting. It kind of makes me want to run my Sintank up through ch12 just to see his reaction to another Dashade (sp?).

 

[FlavivsAetivs]

Again, the concept that your character can hold their own against very powerful force-users, like Darth Revan, who himself was able to stand up to Vitiate and were it not for Lord Scourge killing Meetra Surik, probably would have beat him, and then fight him mentally for 300 years, just is a total disconnect.

 

Especially as both the Warrior and Knight where you DO defeat Vitiate, and he was allegedly more powerful in the Warrior than he was in the Knight questline.

 

And what really is the major plothole is why was Revan trying to resurrect Vitiate, if he was never dead to begin with? Why the evil genocide plans on Belsavis, Voss, and Corellia, and why Ziost? You could explain that this was just to prolong his life, but the Vitiate written was very different from the Valkorion we have now, despite that they are stated several times to be the same person.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Paganinii]

I just played through the chapter on my (light) Inquisitor.

 

I thought the bit with Valk was awkward. I'm all like "hey, let's talk" and he's all like "we're not sith! I'm not your servant!" and I'm all like "huh?"

 

I also liked questing without a companion. Though still wasn't as hard as the underlevelled questing of yesteryear, even to stay above the "survival gear" breakpoint...maybe I was just overgeared. Either way, it feels better to do proving yourself sort of objectives, well, by yourself.

 

The rest was ok. I'm glad I got to say that I'm still Sith in the end without being too much of a jerk.

 

It's a little weird that a chapter with so much to say about how many different ways there are to approach the force seems to be pushing one as the "right" one. We'll see where this goes, I guess.

[nanamaryjj]

this is the first chapter since the graveyard, that i have absolutely enjoyed

some moments while predictable still hit like a meteor

the only gripe i had, is that my LS (i wont help you valk) and my DS (I love you valk) still had him being dismissive.

felt like a total disconnect on that part

but the satele and marr segments i absolutely loved

[Lil_Fusion]

In my honest opinion the Area was done amazingly I had fun using the force jump clickables, but the story however seemed to be a filler and was lame I didn't enjoy it much at all, the only good thing apart from the area was that it wasn't broken and wasn't super boring as the Kaliyo and Aric chapters were. I was also disappointed that HK weapons are BoP and not legacy when there is virtually no point to use non-legacy weapons until they allow us to have cosmetic overrides for weaponry if not those then the almighty weapon that we made in the Oddessen wilds should've been legacy as again there is no point in using it outside of story time if it gives a boost when fighting Arcann when the time comes.

 

I'm also not looking forward to next month doesn't even look like having a point to be a subscriber by May 1st for those rewards because they are hardly rewards but that's a topic for another day.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Lil_Fusion

[vadess]

I LOVED this chapter... Though there is one tiny issue and I hope bioware takes it to heart:

 

The letter I got from my LI at the end, in this case Theron Shan's, is OK but really disengages. Letters are great, I love getting a good letter, but Theron shan writes about how worried he was and feared the worst for the Outlander. He kept pacing back and forth.

 

Would've been nice if at the end there was a cutscene where Theron, or whoever LI the person has, expresses that worry. Even if it is like a 2min asking if they're OK, and go deeper into what they experienced. It certainly would have beaten a letter. After all, if my LI was lost somewhere for days unend, I would tell them how much I missed them and how worried I was and all of that in person! Not send an email after the fact.

[Darkbloom]

Just finished it, I'm kinda ambivalent. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't as interesting as the previous two, honestly. But then, I main a Scoundrel and I'm not much for mystic mumbo-jumbo, so that might have something to do with it. A few thoughts that came to mind as I went through it:

 

 

And a plot-related thing that occurred to me, hiding behind a spoiler tag:

 

Did anyone else get the impression that the Satele and Marr we met weren't the real Satele and Marr? It seemed...awfully convenient to me that after Valk and I had our little spat over not fulfilling my destiny and crap because I won't take his power, two other more trustworthy individuals show up and start more or less persuading me to believe the same things Valk was trying to persuade me to believe. And then they pull the whole "well, we have something important and nondescript to do over on the other side of the galaxy, be seeing you!" when I invite them to come help out. I'm quite suspicious...

 

 

No I definitely felt the same way and I felt it from the beginning.

 

However, I think it's more likely that Valk has succeeded in tricking Satele and Marr. The one thing that makes me wonder is that Satele uses that Valk-like force freeze move and then goes off to chase force butterflies, just like he did.

 

I guess it's possible that they are basically following Valk around. When Satele talked about considering killing me off while I slept, that indicates that maybe they have a back-up plan in mind if I decide to go full Valkorian.

 

This reminds me of something from chapters 1-8 though, that many people don't seem to have seen because they made the choice. During the battle of Asylum, if you choose to GENUINELY surrender to Arcann, you will see a cut-scene where Valkorian talks to Arcann. He tells Arcann, "You will never be free of me until you kill the Outlander."

 

I'm convinced that Valkorian is, at the least, in communication with Vaylin, Arcann and myself. And I'm convinced that Vaylin is the one he really wants to have come out on top.

 

We'll see.

 

[vadess]

I really enjoyed it as well.

 

Though I can see the "There is no gray Force" crowd having a bad day.

 

I already read about them having a bad day. Though if they really want to go back to black/white kind of thinking, someone is remaking KOTOR with up to date graphics for free.

[Nauticaa]

I loved every moment of it - best chapter this year in my opinion.

 

I wish it could have been longer but I know it takes time to build each sequence - I can't wait to see how the story continues.

[FlavivsAetivs]

I already read about them having a bad day. Though if they really want to go back to black/white kind of thinking, someone is remaking KOTOR with up to date graphics for free.

 

But KOTOR and Jedi Knight are what started the whole "Gray Jedi" craze.

 

"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan... and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone." ~ Darth Malak

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[vadess]

But KOTOR and Jedi Knight are what started the whole "Gray Jedi" craze.

 

"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan... and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone." ~ Darth Malak

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Sort of, but even then in KOTOR the Sith were clearly evil, and the Republic was clearly good. Picking darkside choices= being bad; picking lightside choices= being good. That changed in KOTOR 2, which is one of the best parts about that game to me, but in KOTOR it was mostly black and white thinking.

[Slowpokeking]

Sort of, but even then in KOTOR the Sith were clearly evil, and the Republic was clearly good. Picking darkside choices= being bad; picking lightside choices= being good. That changed in KOTOR 2, which is one of the best parts about that game to me, but in KOTOR it was mostly black and white thinking.

 

The problem is not "black or white or grey" but "grey is better than anything else", that is stupid. And Arcann clearly wasn't a neutral character.

 

The grey Jedi Revan was trying to commit genocide on 97% of the Empire's population, I won't call it good.

[Slowpokeking]

Even in OT, Vader wasn't totally evil and Obi Wan/Yoda wasn't all good, they were deceiving Luke and trying to convince him to kill his own father.

[FlavivsAetivs]

The problem is not "black or white or grey" but "grey is better than anything else", that is stupid. And Arcann clearly wasn't a neutral character.

 

The grey Jedi Revan was trying to commit genocide on 97% of the Empire's population, I won't call it good.

 

Don't forget, at that point Revan was 1. Technically insane and 2. it was in fact in-character. The histories of the Mandalorian Wars state Revan's necessary sacrificing of worlds in order to achieve victory elsewhere (a question you're even asked by the terminal on Kashyyyk) was part of how he won the war. It was also part of how he had fallen to the dark side by the end of the war.

 

But you're right, the point of grey Jedi is that not all the choices they make are "good". Some are "evil/bad", but I think the point is most are really neutral, as in how ordinary Joes live out their lives. The point of the gray Jedi is not that he's OP, but that he's average, and that it connects to the player better when their character is average. Revan was supposed to be the exception (canonically gray and the only one to master both sides). Meetra Surik was canonically lightside, not gray. Kyle Katarn is canonically gray, but not OP.

 

Another point is that Gray Jedi are also defined as force-users who act outside the will of the order. E.g. Qui-Gon Jin was a gray jedi because he often defied the council and the Jedi teachings if it didn't suit him or if there was a better option than what the Jedi would usually do.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs