IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Lets face it, most of what they've written to explain how we got the start of KotFE and why the factions are not with us, it complete rubbish. The scene setting for and in KotFE are arguably the worst writing BioWare has done to date in this game. Whilst I quite like some of the story in KotFE and the new characters are definitely interesting, there seems to be a focus on the immediate content story and little thought applied to world building or the long term. It's like they're writing book two of a trilogy without having written book one and with no idea (or intention perhaps) of writing book three. BW has had a constant issue with not preparing for immediate follow-on material. I blame their origin as a single-player-RPG studio; the cadence of release is different in that realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogosPathos Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) Lets face it, most of what they've written to explain how we got the start of KotFE and why the factions are not with us, it complete rubbish. The scene setting for and in KotFE are arguably the worst writing BioWare has done to date in this game. Whilst I quite like some of the story in KotFE and the new characters are definitely interesting, there seems to be a focus on the immediate content story and little thought applied to world building or the long term. It's like they're writing book two of a trilogy without having written book one and with no idea (or intention perhaps) of writing book three. I still think it's cost cutting. They're given profit targets and then write the story to fit the new resource allocation. It's why everything is being collapsed into a single story arc. Edited April 7, 2016 by LogosPathos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAresian Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I was a little nervous playing through on my force users as it felt a little forced, but when I played through on a BH my concerns were allayed. I will say this: It definitely whets my appetite for the last few episodes because Darth Marr said earlier that it was a pity so many would die before it happened and there hasn't been a single major character death yet. (Vik and HK don't count for me. Vik is reduced to an NPC and HK comes back in like one episode.) (Erring on the side of caution here.) The only criticism I have, and it's a small one, is that some of the aggro radii seem ridiculously large as though they're trying to stretch the content out. However, outside of making the alt runs seem to drag it doesn't hurt the overall quality. 7.5 out of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geschmonz Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Really great. I almost quitted the game before this was released.. Now i am back and stay. More like this, Bioware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I still think it's cost cutting. They're given profit targets and then write the story to fit the new resource allocation. It's why everything is being collapsed into a single story arc. The story as laid out by Max and expanded upon wouldn't have been any more expensive - it's still a single-faction story, with maybe one or two more factional frills. It just doesn't ramp everything up to eleven! or to be quite so force-mystical or ignore/retcon the previous class stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I still think it's cost cutting. They're given profit targets and then write the story to fit the new resource allocation. It's why everything is being collapsed into a single story arc. I agree it is probably resource allocation. In an ideal world, the writers would have written the entire story for KotFE before any content is created, but they are probably only one chapter ahead of the content team, with a rough idea of where it is heading (which we all know anyways). Edited April 7, 2016 by darkov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I'd like to see where they could possibly take us post KotFE. Obviously Saresh needs to go. I hear rumors she's been recording in the booth, hopefully her death is imminent. Darth Acina, at the moment, is the only ruling power remaining in the Empire whereas the Jedi have all but scattered so where are we to go after this Outlander business? Take the throne of Zakuul and start a new era? Become rulers of our respective faction and relaunch the war? Bring the Republic and Empire together for good which would be horrible really. Or you know perhaps the outcome for KotFE will be so disastrous we're forced to time jump into the past to undo it all because, that's original and a good excuse to regurgitate Vitiate and others once more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I'd like to see where they could possibly take us post KotFE. Obviously Saresh needs to go. I hear rumors she's been recording in the booth, hopefully her death is imminent. Darth Acina, at the moment, is the only ruling power remaining in the Empire whereas the Jedi have all but scattered so where are we to go after this Outlander business? Take the throne of Zakuul and start a new era? Become rulers of our respective faction and relaunch the war? Bring the Republic and Empire together for good which would be horrible really. Or you know perhaps the outcome for KotFE will be so disastrous we're forced to time jump into the past to undo it all because, that's original and a good excuse to regurgitate Vitiate and others once more. I was actually thinking by the time they finally let us finish KotFE, they will probably just wrap up support for the game and leave it in life support mode whilst they do whatever else they have planned. They could stick Vit into any NPC body and just have us chase him endlessly around the galaxy after we've killed Arcann. Maybe set it up like the events, runs on a schedule, "spawn random NPC with X health and Y damage, use Emperor dialogue for fight, have purple particle effect leave body on death", rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I agree it is probably resource allocation. In an ideal world, the writers would have written the entire story for KotFE before any content is created, but they are probably only one chapter ahead of the content team, with a rough idea of where it is heading (which we all know anyways). No, they've already written all sixteen chapters. They're already recording for Season 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 No, they've already written all sixteen chapters. They're already recording for Season 2. They should write some books/short stories/comics to show us what couldn't be presented in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 They should write some books/short stories/comics to show us what couldn't be presented in the game. Agreed, most of the most interesting things about SWTOR's story comes from the outside material about it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) That would have been awesome. If they must have a single opponent faction, well, the Revanites (even with or despite Revan himself pining for the Fjords at the end of Yavin) fit the bill; as the opposite side of the coin of the character's own "alliance." 4 different groups (the "official" governments of both original factions, the Revanites, and the anti-Revanite Alliance that the player is a member of - because how many people think Saresh wouldn't want to have Vitiate's essence under her thumb; much less the Dark Council and the Moffs. Big question is, why did the second War end? It's not inexplicable (especially after the events of SoR gutted both sides' military via the defections to the Revanites and the losses in the various 3-way fights that resulted. Other big question, why are the players not working with their governments? I don't have enough data on that to say, one way or another - the Sith characters end up on the Council, don't they? Hmmm... The 2nd War would end through the wasted efforts and defections in the Revanite plots (as you note), and through the sheer exhaustion of the war itself. On the second big question, ending Vitiate would require visiting contested or "enemy" worlds, gaining the cooperation of experts and mystics and seekers from the other faction, etc. There are those on both sides for whom this is treason. On the Republic side, imagine how bitter and venomous Saresh would be about the 2nd war ending in a petered-out stalemate and finding out that all the violations of principle and lives thrown away and treasure wasted and political capital spent did nothing to end the Emperor or the Empire. She'd never support anyone working with Imperials, especially Sith, no matter the cost of that refusal. On the Imperial side, Vitiate would still have "his" creeping influence throughout the organs of government and military, his Hands and Eyes are everywhere, and so on. Some members of the Dark Council might be under his influence, or unknowingly compromised, or not believe Darth Marr and Darth (Sith Inq) because they still want to believe in The Emperor. The PC would have to work in the margins and the shadows, with like-minded and trustworthy individuals regardless of faction, all the while keeping it as quiet as possible. Edited April 7, 2016 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Agreed, most of the most interesting things about SWTOR's story comes from the outside material about it anyway. Yep I'd be cool with that. Even the occasional blog post as they did in the past. Slightly OT, just grabbed the Revan book for my tablet, thrilled to get started on reading through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Yep I'd be cool with that. Even the occasional blog post as they did in the past. Slightly OT, just grabbed the Revan book for my tablet, thrilled to get started on reading through that. Ha..ah...ahhhahahahahaha. Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Ha..ah...ahhhahahahahaha. Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled... Bah humbug yourself Mr. The first chapter's already about Scourge, consider me satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Hmmm... The 2nd War would end through the wasted efforts and defections in the Revanite plots (as you note), and through the sheer exhaustion of the war itself. On the second big question, ending Vitiate would require visiting contested or "enemy" worlds, gaining the cooperation of experts and mystics and seekers from the other faction, etc. There are those on both sides for whom this is treason. On the Republic side, imagine how bitter and venomous Saresh would be about the 2nd war ending in a petered-out stalemate and finding out that all the violations of principle and lives thrown away and treasure wasted and political capital spent did nothing to end the Emperor or the Empire. She'd never support anyone working with Imperials, especially Sith, no matter the cost of that refusal. On the Imperial side, Vitiate would still have "his" creeping influence throughout the organs of government and military, his Hands and Eyes are everywhere, and so on. Some members of the Dark Council might be under his influence, or unknowingly compromised, or not believe Darth Marr and Darth (Sith Inq) because they still want to believe in The Emperor. The PC would have to work in the margins and the shadows, with like-minded and trustworthy individuals regardless of faction, all the while keeping it as quiet as possible. Last question - why are the cross-class companions free to join the player character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Agreed, most of the most interesting things about SWTOR's story comes from the outside material about it anyway. I want a book about the Dread Masters and some comics about Lana Beniko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Ha..ah...ahhhahahahahaha. Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled... The book didn't say much about Darth Traya's influence on Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabenschwinge Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The scene setting for and in KotFE are arguably the worst writing BioWare has done to date in this game. Whilst I quite like some of the story in KotFE and the new characters are definitely interesting, there seems to be a focus on the immediate content story and little thought applied to world building or the long term. Hmmmm... I doubt the writers of the Ziost storyline had anything like Knights of the Fallen Empire in mind when the wrote Ziost. Ziost was a continuation of Shadow of Revan, not really a new chapter, but an interlude. At that time my greatest problem with it that was that on a larger scale, Shadow of Revan and Ziost in particular obsoletes the Jedi Knight storyline. However, Knights of the Fallen Empire was basically saying: And now something completely different. Valkorian and Vitiiate being the same character leads to too many contradictions, even for a fantastic video game in a Star Wars setting. I am willing to go with a lot of rubbish, but Valkorian and Vitiate being the same person just drives it too far. It even invalidates the Jedi Knight storyline further pretty much everything in it must have been a fraud) and it also invalidates the Sith Empire: The Sith Empire was merely a tool to destabilize the galaxy, its philosophies designed to that end, at least in the last few centuries. If the Emperor is a fraud, then so is the Empire. I am not sure how it came to this. Maybe it had something to do with Disney's ideas for the storyline, though I don't see how any of this may relate to events that might happen in the upcoming movies. Maybe they just manoeuvred themselves into a dead end with Ziost and didn't really know what to do with that overwhelming god they created. But the reason consider most important is that they felt that had to introduce a whole new faction, an overwhelming dominion for the player to oppose, since the either faction that players can belong to does not really work to that end. There would have been other ways to do it. (E.g. The Galactic Republic wins the war but turns into a military dictatorship under Suresh's rule in which force users are hunted and eleminated. A faction of secret police is established to find force users, for the Force is considered to be the cause of all evil in the galaxy. Its agents however, are indoctrinated by Vitiate. In truth the largest part of administration is already controlled by Vitiate and somehow all the player characters, including the non-force users end up being enemies of the state.) This particular chapter however is not particularly bad in this regard though. Once you've started with Knights of the Fallen Empire it makes sense to go on like this. We have already seen Satele Shan and Darth Marr in a cut scene at the end of chapter IX, they had to bring them eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Hmmmm... I doubt the writers of the Ziost storyline had anything like Knights of the Fallen Empire in mind when the wrote Ziost. Ziost was a continuation of Shadow of Revan, not really a new chapter, but an interlude. At that time my greatest problem with it that was that on a larger scale, Shadow of Revan and Ziost in particular obsoletes the Jedi Knight storyline. However, Knights of the Fallen Empire was basically saying: And now something completely different. Valkorian and Vitiiate being the same character leads to too many contradictions, even for a fantastic video game in a Star Wars setting. I am willing to go with a lot of rubbish, but Valkorian and Vitiate being the same person just drives it too far. It even invalidates the Jedi Knight storyline further pretty much everything in it must have been a fraud) and it also invalidates the Sith Empire: The Sith Empire was merely a tool to destabilize the galaxy, its philosophies designed to that end, at least in the last few centuries. If the Emperor is a fraud, then so is the Empire. I am not sure how it came to this. Maybe it had something to do with Disney's ideas for the storyline, though I don't see how any of this may relate to events that might happen in the upcoming movies. Maybe they just manoeuvred themselves into a dead end with Ziost and didn't really know what to do with that overwhelming god they created. But the reason consider most important is that they felt that had to introduce a whole new faction, an overwhelming dominion for the player to oppose, since the either faction that players can belong to does not really work to that end. There would have been other ways to do it. (E.g. The Galactic Republic wins the war but turns into a military dictatorship under Suresh's rule in which force users are hunted and eleminated. A faction of secret police is established to find force users, for the Force is considered to be the cause of all evil in the galaxy. Its agents however, are indoctrinated by Vitiate. In truth the largest part of administration is already controlled by Vitiate and somehow all the player characters, including the non-force users end up being enemies of the state.) This particular chapter however is not particularly bad in this regard though. Once you've started with Knights of the Fallen Empire it makes sense to go on like this. We have already seen Satele Shan and Darth Marr in a cut scene at the end of chapter IX, they had to bring them eventually. Yeah they pretty much hit the reset button and it just feel awkward between our old characters and the "Outlander" role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero-Star Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 This visions chapter has me thinking of finally making dark choices for my pure light guardian, and taking a gray jedi approach for the galaxy and still refuse valkohrians power. Side note, I'm tired of being thrown around like a ragdoll when I'm clearly winning a fight First that fight with arcan and now valkohrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 This visions chapter has me thinking of finally making dark choices for my pure light guardian, and taking a gray jedi approach for the galaxy and still refuse valkohrians power. Side note, I'm tired of being thrown around like a ragdoll when I'm clearly winning a fight First that fight with arcan and now valkohrian Yeah, even the battle against Vaylin always starts with you got pushed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Last question - why are the cross-class companions free to join the player character? That might be a bridge too far, and I'm not sure if it's necessary. If you really want it... then maybe something with the player's legacy characters all working together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Out of interest when is the vlog on chapter 12 lore supposed to be? or has it been released already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 (edited) Side note, I'm tired of being thrown around like a ragdoll when I'm clearly winning a fight First that fight with arcan and now valkohrian Yeah, even the battle against Vaylin always starts with you got pushed away. It seems to be how the strong ones greet each other in Star Wars. (cf. Yoda vs Sidious) Edited April 8, 2016 by Altheran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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