Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 That word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Coming from nowhere and kicked everyone's ***=strong Sue trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Coming from nowhere and kicked everyone's ***=strong Sue trait. A weak sue trait, especially when it's Star Wars. Weak Sue Trait=/=Mary Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 A weak sue trait, especially when it's Star Wars. Weak Sue Trait=/=Mary Sue How is it weak? The strongest Mary Sue trait is "super awesome and above everyone else". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm-Cutter Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) * also I'm tired of villains in masks. -Baras, Revan, Malgus, Arcann...... What happens when they sneeze?= Edited April 7, 2016 by Storm-Cutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 * also I'm tired of villains in masks. -Baras, Revan, Malgus, Arcann...... What happens when they sneeze?= LOL. You forgot Darth Marr. and, I don't think I'd wanna know lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 LOL. You forgot Darth Marr. and, I don't think I'd wanna know lol. Plus the Dread Masters, we didn't even get chance to unmask the rest five of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milomilome Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 i find this chapter horriblu boring , full of easter egg hunt all over the jungle , pointless weak shade monsters harrasing the player , useless Tame Beast function.. the most annoying thing is that the real action , destroying the communication Spire , was done off screen by your companion aric or kaliyo... and you are stuck ALONE in the jungle , clicking on pointless items just to advance the quest.. the high note was a single fight, a fight with Valun.. the reward is disappointing ad usual.. in all, the weakest chapter, no new companion return , no action except the Valyn part.. its a lonely walk thrunthe forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Ever see PotC: Dead Man's Chest? I feel about this chapter much the same as I feel about that movie. It's got good things in it, but ultimately, it's just one big build-up for the next chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) That word, I do not think it means what you think it means. "Mary Sue" as a general term has become meaningless, a hollow buzzword, used broadly and sloppily on the internet by people who are trying to say "this character does not meet my personal subjective opinions and tastes" without admitting that their tastes and opinions are subjective and personal. It's never implied that the Zakuul way gives you more power (Considering that so far the Zakuul Knights haven't really been that effective...), just that it's another path to it. Arcann and Vaylin's power stems from their heritage, not their philosophy. Several posters are commenting to the effect that the Outlander finding a "middle way" will make him FAR MORE POWERFUL!, and the trailer has Viti-korian saying "you must become more than light or dark" or whatever the hell it is. Edited April 7, 2016 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 "Mary Sue" as a general term has become meaningless, a hollow buzzword, used broadly and sloppily on the internet by people who are trying to say "this character does not meet my personal subjective opinions and tastes" without admitting that their tastes and opinions are subjective and personal. I don't know as I would describe Vitiate as a Villain Sue (that would require him to be a character, not merely a plot device), but he's certainly an overused plot device after the end of the class stories. Whether Valkorian is a Sue or not depends on the resolution of the story, and whether he's intended to be a character or a plot device. (Right now, I'm on the side of plot device, along with Arcann. Vaylin appears to be getting some characterization, not all of it good) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) It's never implied that the Zakuul way gives you more power (Considering that so far the Zakuul Knights haven't really been that effective...), just that it's another path to it. Arcann and Vaylin's power stems from their heritage, not their philosophy. Yes, but the implication of what is said, is that you can change your understanding/philosophy away from Jedi or Sith and become strong enough to defeat Arcann and Vaylin. Essentially, what we've done in this chapter is create a weapon imbued with the force that is able to defeat Arcann, regardless of whether the person wielding it is a Jedi, Sith or non-Force sensitive. That, just doesn't fit into Star Wars lore. If my character isn't strong enough or smart enough to defeat Arcann, then giving me a magic weapon that can defeat him isn't the solution, it's a cheap trick with no imagination behind it. When Luke needed to get stronger to defeat Vader and the Emperor, he trained under someone who could teach him things he didn't know, things that would help him win, how to use the force essentially. Yoda didn't just give him a magic talisman that did +5 damage to Palpatine. You would think as a Jedi Master that my character has already tapped into their full potential in the force, so the writers should come with an elegant solution of how to defeat Arcann, like... I don't know, using our bloody companions in the fight. Edited April 7, 2016 by darkov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I don't know as I would describe Vitiate as a Villain Sue (that would require him to be a character, not merely a plot device), but he's certainly an overused plot device after the end of the class stories. Whether Valkorian is a Sue or not depends on the resolution of the story, and whether he's intended to be a character or a plot device. (Right now, I'm on the side of plot device, along with Arcann. Vaylin appears to be getting some characterization, not all of it good) At least "Villain Sue" has a more distinct meaning than the now-meaningless "Mary Sue", and I admit to a touch of snark when I call him "Vitiate Sue" due to my exasperation with his continued repeated presence in the story. It comes across as a "pet villain" situation. If it's more accurate to refer to him as an "expired plot device", that's fine with me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Yes, but the implication of what is said, is that you can change your understanding/philosophy away from Jedi or Sith and become strong enough to defeat Arcann and Vaylin. Essentially, what we've done in this chapter is create a weapon imbued with the force that is able to defeat Arcann, regardless of whether the person wielding it is a Jedi, Sith or non-Force sensitive. That, just doesn't fit into Star Wars lore. If my character isn't strong enough or smart enough to defeat Arcann, then giving me a magic weapon that can defeat him isn't the solution, it's a cheap trick with no imagination behind it. When Luke needed to get stronger to defeat Vader and the Emperor, he trained under someone who could teach him things he didn't know, things that would help him win. Yoda didn't just give him a magic talisman that did +5 damage to Palpatine. Long Sword of Emperor Slaying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 At least "Villain Sue" has a more distinct meaning than the now-meaningless "Mary Sue", and I admit to a touch of snark when I call him "Vitiate Sue" due to my exasperation with his continued repeated presence in the story. It comes across as a "pet villain" situation. If it's more accurate to refer to him as an "expired plot device", that's fine with me too. Revan Sue, on the other hand, has enough characterization to be a full-up Mary Sue. It's one of our few points of agreement in regards to the story; that Vitiate should be dead, but for being a "favorite" of the writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Long Sword of Emperor Slaying? That's essentially what we've got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Revan Sue, on the other hand, has enough characterization to be a full-up Mary Sue. It's one of our few points of agreement in regards to the story; that Vitiate should be dead, but for being a "favorite" of the writers. I get the impression that as a group, Bioware looks around the room and starts to really worry what they're going to do, whenever they think about doing TOR-era Star Wars without Revan and his associated trappings, or without Viti-korian as "the big bad voodoo daddy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I get the impression that as a group, Bioware looks around the room and starts to really worry what they're going to do, whenever they think about doing TOR-era Star Wars without Revan and his associated trappings, or without Viti-korian as "the big bad voodoo daddy". I hadn't thought of that, what could possibly come after this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I get the impression that as a group, Bioware looks around the room and starts to really worry what they're going to do, whenever they think about doing TOR-era Star Wars without Revan and his associated trappings, or without Viti-korian as "the big bad voodoo daddy". The Old Republic Era is the (Legends) Era That Revan Built. Their mistake was having them be active and involved with and brawling with the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I hadn't thought of that, what could possibly come after this? That's a darn good question. Which is why upping the stakes after Yavin was a bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 That's a darn good question. Which is why upping the stakes after Yavin was a bad idea Post-Yavin should have been built around finally finding a way to undo Vitiate, maybe some counter-ritual discovered or developed using lost secrets and lore uncovered on Ziost, Yavin 4, Korriban, Dromund Kaas, and other worlds where Vitiate had left his fingerprints over the centuries. A overarching storyline combining scholarship, archaeology, tomb raiding, obtaining old tomes through diplomacy or theft, fighting off mad Imperial Guardsmen and the Emperor's Hands and competing "tomb raiders" and bounty hunter dupes and so on, and building up a group of contacts you need to out it all together, mad chases through space and across hostile worlds. Every "piece" could have been obtainable in multiple ways, opening up solo, FP, Ops, and PvP options to include as many players as possible without locking anything behind content a particular player didn't want to do. While the overall arc would have been a single storyline, there would have been room for class-specific and Imp/Pub specific missions peppered into the mix. No time jump, no carbonite, no Interminable Empire, no "special relationship" with Viti-korian, no "fall" of the Republic and Empire as the major factions, etc. Would still have worked with levelsync and new companions and building up an "alliance" and all that. They could have easily done that... I'm already working on it as an aside in my head between reports and emails and whatnot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Post-Yavin should have been built around finally finding a way to undo Vitiate, maybe some counter-ritual discovered or developed using lost secrets and lore uncovered on Ziost, Yavin 4, Korriban, Dromund Kaas, and other worlds where Vitiate had left his fingerprints over the centuries. A overarching storyline combining scholarship, archaeology, tomb raiding, obtaining old tomes through diplomacy or theft, fighting off mad Imperial Guardsmen and the Emperor's Hands and competing "tomb raiders" and bounty hunter dupes and so on, and building up a group of contacts you need to out it all together, mad chases through space and across hostile worlds. Every "piece" could have been obtainable in multiple ways, opening up solo, FP, Ops, and PvP options to include as many players as possible without locking anything behind content a particular player didn't want to do. While the overall arc would have been a single storyline, there would have been room for class-specific and Imp/Pub specific missions peppered into the mix. No time jump, no carbonite, no Interminable Empire, no "special relationship" with Viti-korian, no "fall" of the Republic and Empire as the major factions, etc. Would still have worked with levelsync and new companions and building up an "alliance" and all that. They could have easily done that... I'm already working on it as an aside in my head between reports and emails and whatnot... That would have been awesome. If they must have a single opponent faction, well, the Revanites (even with or despite Revan himself pining for the Fjords at the end of Yavin) fit the bill; as the opposite side of the coin of the character's own "alliance." 4 different groups (the "official" governments of both original factions, the Revanites, and the anti-Revanite Alliance that the player is a member of - because how many people think Saresh wouldn't want to have Vitiate's essence under her thumb; much less the Dark Council and the Moffs. Big question is, why did the second War end? It's not inexplicable (especially after the events of SoR gutted both sides' military via the defections to the Revanites and the losses in the various 3-way fights that resulted. Other big question, why are the players not working with their governments? I don't have enough data on that to say, one way or another - the Sith characters end up on the Council, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 That would have been awesome. If they must have a single opponent faction, well, the Revanites (even with or despite Revan himself pining for the Fjords at the end of Yavin) fit the bill; as the opposite side of the coin of the character's own "alliance." 4 different groups (the "official" governments of both original factions, the Revanites, and the anti-Revanite Alliance that the player is a member of - because how many people think Saresh wouldn't want to have Vitiate's essence under her thumb; much less the Dark Council and the Moffs. Big question is, why did the second War end? It's not inexplicable (especially after the events of SoR gutted both sides' military via the defections to the Revanites and the losses in the various 3-way fights that resulted. Other big question, why are the players not working with their governments? I don't have enough data on that to say, one way or another - the Sith characters end up on the Council, don't they? No more Dark Council now, Darth Acina made herself the Sith Empress and it looks like she is the only survivor. I REALLY hope to see Jadus in the future, he got some ideas of the Emperor's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 No more Dark Council now, Darth Acina made herself the Sith Empress and it looks like she is the only survivor. I REALLY hope to see Jadus in the future, he got some ideas of the Emperor's doing. Well, that's post-KotFE's timeskip and the EE's incredible victories. Without that, how do you off the rest of the Council? Easy answer, the Emperor's influence on the Dark Council leads to most of them being drained unto death as a "side effect" of the events on Yavin and Ziost; leaving the character and Darth NewBoss (who holds the character responsible) "coincidentally" still alive. Or, yeah, Darth Jadus, which neatly helps the Agent with a reason to no longer affiliate with the Empire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Well, that's post-KotFE's timeskip and the EE's incredible victories. Without that, how do you off the rest of the Council? Easy answer, the Emperor's influence on the Dark Council leads to most of them being drained unto death as a "side effect" of the events on Yavin and Ziost; leaving the character and Darth NewBoss (who holds the character responsible) "coincidentally" still alive. Or, yeah, Darth Jadus, which neatly helps the Agent with a reason to no longer affiliate with the Empire... I really think Jadus knew the Eternal Empire, which is why he went for seclusion till now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Lets face it, most of what they've written to explain how we got the start of KotFE and why the factions are not with us, it complete rubbish. The scene setting for and in KotFE are arguably the worst writing BioWare has done to date in this game. Whilst I quite like some of the story in KotFE and the new characters are definitely interesting, there seems to be a focus on the immediate content story and little thought applied to world building or the long term. It's like they're writing book two of a trilogy without having written book one and with no idea (or intention perhaps) of writing book three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts