embarrassing

[LadyDarkkitten]

Well I must admit the replies to this thread are encouraging. There was no "go back to wow" or anything. Thing is I used to play tie fighter when it first came out and Xwing alliance was an amazing game I spent 100s of hours playing. Back then though it was with a forcefeedback joystick and the viewing angles were alot easier. Flying in gsf is HARD.

 

Its a shame cos I would love to play a decent space flight sim again. sadly I can't make xwing work on my pc. I'm planning to try elite dangerous at some point.

 

Thanks for the understanding responses.

[Greezt]

GSF is pvp. The quicker you understand that, the quicker you know whether it's for you or whether you're wasting your time.

 

I used to think that going easy on new players was the way to go... Honestly, I was wrong. I haven't seen the slightest difference in attitude between the ones who selfdestruct and whine when I fly a Starguard compared to when I fly a Flashfire.

 

Just to add to this I was trying to cap all my guys conquest on imp JC this week. Couldn't do it. after the 4th death match that went 50-~4 against us and every time I came out alemor blew me up. (record was 12 deaths to him in one match) I couldn't make myself queue anymore. Its been real nasty trying to cap with just 250 conquest per wz and only 3 of my guys made it this week before the deadline

 

the key points I took away from this are:

 

1) the controls are unintuitive and I have no idea what was going on

 

2) dog fighting is hard. Ale literally flew around me in circles. I would be behind him pounding away seeing little 131 130 pop up, then he would vanish to one side get behind me and kill me. Death would be near instantaneous.

 

3) gear seems to be a real big issue. it felt like trying do wzs v full 208s in pve gear without bolster

 

4) by the end of the death matchs when we were 40-3 I noticed a suspicous amount of self destructs. I'm not saying people were flying deliberately into asteroids to end the pain faster. honest.

 

5) I'll be unsubscribing before I queue for another gsf. Not fun in any way shape or form.

 

The main issue is, in my opinion, that you were flying for conquest. There's a big difference between flying because you have to and flying because you want to

 

The controls aren't intuitive to anyone who hasn't played similar games before, that's true. However, even the horrible tutorial that GSF has gives a basic understanding of how to move, aim and shoot. Of course dogfighting is hard, doing anything against players more skilled than you is hard - that's pvp. Gear is less of an issue in GSF than in ground pvp in my experience. Except for some specific upgrades, the only time gear is really an issue in GSF is when facing players of the same level or better - same as in pvp...

 

This all boils down to whether you want to learn how to play, or not. It seems to me like you don't.

 

 

 

To OP - it seems like you're on the right track. I think most of the advice given here is sound - just keep at it and get the good pilots on JC to explain stuff and group. Don't worry about dying, and you'll be fine.

[Lavaar]

This thread is an encouraging one to read, a lot of solid advice from the folks of this forum, and a lot of open-mindedness and encouraging responses from those here for some advice. The fact of the matter is that while GSF has always been difficult to get a grasp on initially, one of the bigger issues is that the "skill gap" is mirroring what is happening to the middle class in America these days, and is quickly turning into a skill chasm. There are less and less "normal" matches going on lately because of the depopulation of the game and the stark differences between the experienced players and the newer players. It is easy in this environment to be quickly discouraged, I recently have been dabbling in ground pvp for the first time in years, and the frustration is certainly palpable when it feels like there would be no difference were you there or not.

 

One of the things I would recommend above all else is to group up. This game truly is, at its core, a tactical team game, and having competent, helpful teammates that support each other is how some teams seem to be untouchable, while you can't seem to land a single shot. The GSF chat channel is usually great for asking for groups and advice, no matter the server, and from your match with my friend Max, it is apparent you are discovering the benefits of it already. Having a competent team allows you freedom in the match to learn, rather than being blown up immediately while simply trying to get your bearings.

 

I will be rolling a toon over on jedi covenant imp side soon, feel free to contact me in-game on the gsf chat channel if I am on and I would be happy to group up with any of you guys and help out. I will be leveling a ship as well, so we can work through the hard stuff together. Keep at it!

[MaximilianPower]

3.) It can be, but being very selective in the first few components you spend your comms on can make all the difference in the world. So can getting the intro quest and buying the Rampart/Razorwire and Quarrel/whatevertheimponeiscalled.

 

Geez, Mangler. Lord knows how many times you've been on the wrong end of that thing.

 

But I quoted this not to poke fun at Eudoxia, but rather to emphasize the point he makes. There are certain upgrades that can instantly impact your performance for the better...some are in the higher tiers, but if you spend your req wisely you'll reach those levels sooner than you might think. I'm talking about stuff like armor piercing (T1 pods, T3 slug, T4 BLCs, etcetera)...the first couple upgrades on barrel roll...T4 splash on ion rail...T5 TT. Focus on those important upgrades and save stuff like clusters for later.

 

On the flip side, dumping sub-optimal components can also improve your experience dramatically. The most notorious offender is the oft-maligned RFL, your starting blasters on a number of stock ships. They sound good, but they're actually terrible; even if you hit your target (which is a dicey proposition to begin with) you aren't going to hurt them much. As I like to say, it's sort of like urinating on the enemy...annoying, perhaps, but not particularly damaging. Swapping those out ASAP can instantly improve your effectiveness and accuracy.

Edited April 4, 2016 by MaximilianPower

[Krixarcs]

Hey guy I recently trained dixarcs from scratch and I stuck with the basics. She said she noticed the best success when she stuck to the basic ship gender roles and did not try to overextend herself

 

Scout - use all your evasion and engines and fly evasively don't worry about being a killing machine like Krixarcs

 

Gs : just snipe snipe snipe and run back to team at first sign of trouble

 

Bomber - just camp and loS don't even shoot ur guns much

 

Strikes - bend over and kiss ur bum

[Maulkat]

The main issue is, in my opinion, that you were flying for conquest. There's a big difference between flying because you have to and flying because you want to

 

I learned how to fly before conquest came out and I didn't do very well. The motion of the space flight, the 3d of the game mode, just made me feel motion sick. The amount of matches I could do at one time was 2-3 before I needed to take a break and walk away for a short period of time or even the rest of the day. Once conquest came out, I pushed past my "yucky" limitations and can now fly for hours at a time.

Other than TRE, usually the only time I fly on other servers is when conquest doesn't count. I enjoy flying now and make solid pilot. When I'm on other servers, I always reach out to people there. Make a name for myself, group up, ask/answer questions to my best ability. The classes Despon is holding on JC have been helpful even to me and I've been flying since GSF launch.

So not all "conquest" fliers are bad pilots.

[Greezt]

So not all "conquest" fliers are bad pilots.

 

I never said that, but in any case you yourself say that you flew before conquest, and also that most of your flights are for conquest.

 

People who do anything out of necessity instead of actual will, will never do it as well. The person I was replying to said they took GSF as a tool to finish conquest, nothing more. I appreciate the fact that they didn't resort to flying into rocks or AFKing in game, but how can someone expect to improve in something they clearly see as a chore - something to be done with as quick as you can?

[FlavivsAetivs]

Its a shame cos I would love to play a decent space flight sim again. sadly I can't make xwing work on my pc. I'm planning to try elite dangerous at some point.

 

Well Rogue Squadron just released on Steam, and Battlefront 2 you can also get on Steam. GSF is loosely modelled off the class system of Battlefront 2 (Interceptor/Starfighter/Bomber/Gunship) but is very, very different.

 

Geez, Mangler. Lord knows how many times you've been on the wrong end of that thing.

 

But I quoted this not to poke fun at Eudoxia, but rather to emphasize the point he makes. There are certain upgrades that can instantly impact your performance for the better...some are in the higher tiers, but if you spend your req wisely you'll reach those levels sooner than you might think. I'm talking about stuff like armor piercing (T1 pods, T3 slug, T4 BLCs, etcetera)...the first couple upgrades on barrel roll...T4 splash on ion rail...T5 TT. Focus on those important upgrades and save stuff like clusters for later.

 

On the flip side, dumping sub-optimal components can also improve your experience dramatically. The most notorious offender is the oft-maligned RFL, your starting blasters on a number of stock ships. They sound good, but they're actually terrible; even if you hit your target (which is a dicey proposition to begin with) you aren't going to hurt them much. As I like to say, it's sort of like urinating on the enemy...annoying, perhaps, but not particularly damaging. Swapping those out ASAP can instantly improve your effectiveness and accuracy.

 

Lol.

 

As for components, some other good tips:

 

1. Get rid of quick charge shield and replace it with distortion field preferably. Directional shield, Fortress shied, and feedback shield are good choices too. Charged plating can be if you stack armor (MK-4 Rampart/Razorwire Bomber is a good one for charged plating, for example).

 

2. Power Die is also useful... but we often call it that for a reason. It has no engine energy requirement on its first upgrade, so it drastically increases your ability to evade and your mobility. If you use it, get used to smacking into asteroids until you can learn how to time it properly.

 

3. Heavy Laser Cannon is always a good choice on ships without Burst Laser Cannon. It gets armor ignore at T4 and shield piercing at T5, but nevertheless is still a fantastic option before then compared to most of the blasters you can get. On your stock starfighter (Starguard/Rycer), replace your Rapid Fire Lasers with ion cannons so you can press "1" and swap back and forth between the two.

 

On the Novadive/Blackbolt and Spearpoint/whatevertheimponeiscalled the best choice and only choice is really "normal" laser cannon.

 

4. Missiles: The two best ones are Concussions and Cluster Missiles. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and throw in Sabotage probe too, but without upgrades it's really not that useful. Still, Sabo makes your enemy get stuck flying straight which might help you as a beginner, but really has a long lock-on time and can be evaded off without the upgrades. So it's better you use concs/clusters until you get more experience.

 

5. Evades: Barrel Roll and Retro are the two best. Hyperspace beacon is good on a bomber, so can the shield/weapons power converters.

 

6. Special: This can depend on the ship. T1/T2 Strikes get an extra weapon. Clarion/Imperium gets a special, for that ship I go with repair probes. T3 Scout (Spearpoint/whatevertheimponeis) gets Tensor field, which is your #1 choice there since you can use it to send your team racing to a sat at the beginning of a match. Bombers get mines and drones, and any of them really work, some are just better than others.

 

Minor Components:

This can depend on the ship.

 

Armor: For scouts/strikes/gunships you typically want lightweight armor. Bombers can take reinforced or deflection, depending on the build, but lightweight is really your universal choice.

 

Magazine: Any of the three really work, AFAIK. I'm not sure which one is really better.

 

Weapons Capacitor: Damage cap is pretty universal too.

 

Reactor: This one also depends on the ship. For scouts/gunships it can be regeneration or turbo. For bombers, strikes it typically is large reactor.

 

Sensors: Can vary. For some ships comms, for others range. As a new player don't worry about this.

 

Crew:

 

This again can depend on the ship:

 

Copilot: Someone with Wingman or Running Interference is 99% of the time your best choice. Concentrated fire is good once you gain some experience. Nullify is good if you're stacking armor on a Rampart/Razorwire or on a Charged Plating Clarion (the latter is not something I'd recommend to a new pilot).

 

Offensive: Typically you want firing arc for your missiles, and ALWAYS weapon accuracy. The secondary weapon cooldown time is good too, but make sure you get in that weapon accuracy.

 

Defensive: Shield Power pool and Evasion are a good combination. I typically always pick someone with evasion. If a shot misses, it doesn't do damage, so it's statistically better to have them miss than to hit you even though you have higher shields/armor. Damage reduction is good on a Rampart/Razorwire build with Charged Plating and Nullify and Deflection armor, as I have stated several times.

 

Tactical: Kendra Novaar is a good beginner's choice since she increases communication and sensor range, allowing you to see more of the map and where the enemies are on it.

 

Engineering: Another tricky one that depends on the build. Typically you want someone who gives a bonus to both blasters and engines, like Tharan Cedrax, Risha, Yuun, or Ashy. Really I find the cost of using weapons bonus better than the engine ability bonus.

 

Some ones to avoid:

 

1. Rapid Fire Laser Cannon/Light Laser Cannon

2. Quick Charge Shield

3. Unless you know what you're building your ship for, Quad lasers.

4. Ion Missile/EMP Missile/Protorp. Again, unless you know what you're doing, best to avoid these. Protorp is good if there's no better option (Concs/Clusters).

5. Any of the copilot abilities except for Running Interference and Wingman. Hydrospanner is a HUGE noob trap, since it heals you. NEVER use it, because the amount it heals you is worth less than a single rapid fire laser cannon shot.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 4, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Krixarcs]

Are u nuts eudoxia magazine regen is the only right choice and hydrospanner is way better than nullify and c2-n2 is a great choice for engineering. Concussion and sab probe SUCKs Edited April 4, 2016 by Krixarcs

[Greezt]

Are u nuts eudoxia magazine regen is the only right choice and hydrospanner is way better than nullify and c2-n2 is a great choice for engineering. Concussion and sab probe SUCKs

 

The difference between magazines is not huge (but I agree regen is the best in most cases). Nullify is useless on a CP bomber (or strike), and for crewmembers, generally Yuun/C2-N2 , maybe T7-01 for certain scout builds.

 

Concussions don't suck.

 

Edit: So as not to derail the thread: OP, you can check out Stasie's guide stickied at the top of these forums. That's a great starting point.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Greezt

[Krixarcs]

Not huge lol you can get 4 full railgun shots with regen but only 3 with any other choice please tell me how 75% shots is a minor loss lol

 

Concussion suck.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Krixarcs

[Krixarcs]

Maybe concussion good against TRE nubs

[Krixarcs]

TBH BTW u fools not picking 10% more engine on ur gs u are doing it wrong. Guess what with the 10 bonus you can just barely get to the perfect spots such as sniping window in Mesas Domination and damage overcharges.

[PulseRazor]

So I had the opportunity to fly with the OP for a bunch of games tonight, and we had a good discussion along with another long-time JC GSFer (Cevanik). I think we helped shed some light on a couple of possible issues; he's been using quads and BO on his Ocula, which is of course a perfectly viable combo, but they aren't necessarily the most user-friendly components when just starting out. We went over some of the basics like targeting, tracking penalty, hit-box size, evasion vs accuracy, etcetera. A lot to absorb but I'm pretty sure OP is moving in the right direction.

 

Here's one of tonight's matches; OP is L'autrechienne. 27k damage and 40% accuracy is pretty damn respectable, if you ask me. As he said, this was one of his better games, but clearly there's hope here. Keep it up, man!

 

I should comment on that game, because it was really my best showing.

 

I got the distinct impression that I was on a 'winning team' that time, and I have to admit I found a pilot who liked to park a gunship in pretty bad spots and I tried to bully him as much as possible, so that was where my acc/dmg was comming from.

 

This map was filled with spaceship wreckage, so it was easy and fun to fly behind something whenever I got shot at, or whenever I was moving across the map even. I spent the match ducking behind cover to cover flying circa Obiwan vs Jango in the asteroid fields of Geonosis, which is really why I picked the Ocula as the ship I was intent to 'master'. We had a capture point that was hotly contested the whole match, but filled with well placed healing probes for me to stock up at, and I got some points defending that against attackers as I snaked around the wreckage.

 

Every once in a while I faceplant while I am target camming. and some of the spots look like I can fit through but I cant.

 

I am at the point now where my next upgrades are going to cost 10k each, trying to decide if I want to push for missile lock dump, or 20% more engine pool, or if I should abandon retro engines and go with barrel roll for the 10% more turn and 10% more speed. Speed and turn is life, but that 20% more pool seems pretty nice, though I wonder if barrel roll itself might be more practical then retro, especially at the beginning of a match where i might get a chance to cap a point before it is covered with red turrets.

 

 

I have been getting a lot of tips from people, and I appreciate every one of them, but a few people try to tell me that I shouldnt try to fly the scout just yet, that I should learn the fundamentals and once I know more about the game I can come back to the scout and be better in it. I think if I get good in the scout from the start I will be good in the other ships, but sometimes when I forget to pick the ship and I get stuck in the Strike Ship I have a bad time because it cant move and has no engine pool. I can see where dealing with the speed and turnrate while learning the map layouts and learning how to deal with things i dont know enough about to anticipate, while learning how to shoot and aim can be overwhelming, but I am going to stay in this ship until I at lest max out one set of each component.

Edited April 4, 2016 by PulseRazor

[FlavivsAetivs]

The difference between magazines is not huge (but I agree regen is the best in most cases). Nullify is useless on a CP bomber (or strike), and for crewmembers, generally Yuun/C2-N2 , maybe T7-01 for certain scout builds.

 

Concussions don't suck.

 

Edit: So as not to derail the thread: OP, you can check out Stasie's guide stickied at the top of these forums. That's a great starting point.

 

Noted. Just trying to give some starter tips.

 

~ Eudoxia

[MaximilianPower]

1. Get rid of quick charge shield and replace it with distortion field preferably. Directional shield, Fortress shied, and feedback shield are good choices too. Charged plating can be if you stack armor (MK-4 Rampart/Razorwire Bomber is a good one for charged plating, for example).

 

All good info in that post, aside from 2 things: as krix pointed out, regen extender is the only good choice for magazine. And secondly, for the love of all that is good and holy - please do not recommend fortress shield as a viable option. I know some people have found niche uses for it, but it is not, generally speaking, a good choice - especially for a new pilot. It's basically like painting a big sign on your ship declaring "please shoot me". Distortion is the default choice for most ships (where available); directionals can be incredibly effective (once you learn to cycle them correctly), and feedback is a defensible choice as well. Just...not...fortress.

[MaximilianPower]

TBH BTW u fools not picking 10% more engine on ur gs u are doing it wrong. Guess what with the 10 bonus you can just barely get to the perfect spots such as sniping window in Mesas Domination and damage overcharges.

 

I hate to argue with the omniscient krix, but imo this is debatable. I've played with both options. A lot. Yes, the 10% engine boost is nice, and can get you to a good spot (either a DO or simple positioning) faster. But I've landed on the side of turning. The faster I turn, the quicker I can line up a perfectly centered shot. Or orient myself better for a barrel roll escape. I don't think either choice is wrong; the answer is kinda wrapped up in your personal playstyle. And turning works better for me.

[Greezt]

I hate to argue with the omniscient krix, but imo this is debatable. I've played with both options. A lot. Yes, the 10% engine boost is nice, and can get you to a good spot (either a DO or simple positioning) faster. But I've landed on the side of turning. The faster I turn, the quicker I can line up a perfectly centered shot. Or orient myself better for a barrel roll escape. I don't think either choice is wrong; the answer is kinda wrapped up in your personal playstyle. And turning works better for me.

 

I think he meant crewmembers here, and I agree that C2-N2 is the right choice for gunships.

[DavidAtkinson]

Well I must admit the replies to this thread are encouraging. There was no "go back to wow" or anything. Thing is I used to play tie fighter when it first came out and Xwing alliance was an amazing game I spent 100s of hours playing. Back then though it was with a forcefeedback joystick and the viewing angles were alot easier. Flying in gsf is HARD.

 

Its a shame cos I would love to play a decent space flight sim again. sadly I can't make xwing work on my pc. I'm planning to try elite dangerous at some point.

 

Thanks for the understanding responses.

 

If you are new to GFS your expectations of yourself must be realistic.. If you expect to have 12 kills with 70 k damage 60% accuracy, you will be dooming and discouragng yourself.

 

This is the main reason new people give up. They cannot stand the fact that they have to learn to fly in the first place then shoot and aim, lock on.

[MaximilianPower]

I think he meant crewmembers here, and I agree that C2-N2 is the right choice for gunships.

 

Ugh, you're right. Krix, forgive me, my reading skills are sub-par.

[FlavivsAetivs]

All good info in that post, aside from 2 things: as krix pointed out, regen extender is the only good choice for magazine. And secondly, for the love of all that is good and holy - please do not recommend fortress shield as a viable option. I know some people have found niche uses for it, but it is not, generally speaking, a good choice - especially for a new pilot. It's basically like painting a big sign on your ship declaring "please shoot me". Distortion is the default choice for most ships (where available); directionals can be incredibly effective (once you learn to cycle them correctly), and feedback is a defensible choice as well. Just...not...fortress.

 

Wow I always thought fortress shield was supposed to be good.

 

Yeah don't use it then.

 

~ Eudoxia

[AlrikFassbauer]

If you are new to GFS your expectations of yourself must be realistic.. If you expect to have 12 kills with 70 k damage 60% accuracy, you will be dooming and discouragng yourself.

 

To me, this sounds like sayxing : "You'll never be as good as we are. At least not for months."

 

This is the main reason new people give up. They cannot stand the fact that they have to learn to fly in the first place then shoot and aim, lock on.

 

Yes, but learning to fly while getting shot down ? Is that still "fun" ?

 

How do I learn to fly when I'm the primary target of everyone once they find out that I'm inexperienced ?

Edited April 5, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[SeCKSEgai]

Glad to see you didn't give up.

 

Here's a little something I wrote to help ease the learning curve and explain some basic (and yet essential) principles:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=874945

 

I remember trying to read the stasiopedia when I first started but my lack of experience made it a lot more difficult to take that information and apply it to myself as a beginner pilot.

 

I'm pretty sure you made the right choice in focusing on that Ocula - also note you can pick up a sting for 5000k ship req so you can have two variants - which helps immensely should it become your primary ship of choice.

 

While I'd agree that it can be harder to learn in a sting/ff/ocula/skybolt, I really didn't see a lot of improvement in my own abilities till I made the transition to that ship myself. The better you can fly that ship and understand its strengths/weaknesses, the easier it is to translate that knowledge into other ships, whether it be in blowing them up or simply evading them.

 

GSF can be fun but the hardest part is really just not giving it up altogether.

 

I could go into detail about sting/ff combat but some of that stuff you'll want to learn through direct experience. However, be mindful of how you spend that req as it's really slow to buildup so take some time to research and play a bit with the components before deciding to max out certain trees.

[Greezt]

To me, this sounds like sayxing : "You'll never be as good as we are. At least not for months."

 

First of all, realistically he won't be as good as anyone who's been playing for months/years without practicing for quite a bit. Secondly, while I don't necessarily agree with the idea of setting low goals, it has some merit.

 

Anyway, why would you expect someone new to quickly become as good as a veteran (at anything)?

 

Yes, but learning to fly while getting shot down ? Is that still "fun" ?

 

How do I learn to fly when I'm the primary target of everyone once they find out that I'm inexperienced ?

 

The first statement is legitimate. That obviously depends on you, how you take it. If you want to improve, you will (just like in pvp). The first games will be hard, and you will sometimes land on the bad end of a faceroll. This happens even to people who've played thousands of games... I really don't see any difference between this and ground pvp.

 

The second statement... I only know one or two people who enjoy actively farming new players. Can you point any? Or is this just a given that GSFers are noob farmers?

Edited April 5, 2016 by Greezt

[FlavivsAetivs]

I will admit, new players are easy protorp locks...

 

That being said, I don't actively hunt them. I like challenging players. Usually because they kill me and I want revenge.

 

~ Eudoxia