Arsenal Mercenary is completely overpowerd

[foxmob]

So funny how people trying to protect merc. They are _OVERPOWERED_ at the moment and i totally agree with the OP. How stupid are you if you cant see that every warzone is full of mercs and sorcs atm.

 

all I see are sorcs and warriors. but to be fair, that's because the ops and sins are invisible.

[alienwareguy]

Alright just to dismiss the claims I never played a Mercenary, here is a video recorded today 3/27/16 of evidence I do indeed play this class.

https://youtu.be/mK3522DZans

[Thaladan]

as a merc IO fan too, i understand and respect your point of view.

 

indeed 30%crit damage of arsenal needs to be nerfed, like PT/AP and snipers/MM/engi were. heatseeker missile crit damage is just insane and too easy.

[helpmewin]

as a merc IO fan too, i understand and respect your point of view.

 

indeed 30%crit damage of arsenal needs to be nerfed, like PT/AP and snipers/MM/engi were. heatseeker missile crit damage is just insane and too easy.

 

They don't need nerf or buff tho.

Edited March 27, 2016 by helpmewin

[Gyronamics]

Alright just to dismiss the claims I never played a Mercenary, here is a video recorded today 3/27/16 of evidence I do indeed play this class.

https://youtu.be/mK3522DZans

 

The only OP thing is the sorc healer you're going round with.

 

Hilarious that you think its you.

[foxmob]

as a merc IO fan too, i understand and respect your point of view.

 

indeed 30%crit damage of arsenal needs to be nerfed, like PT/AP and snipers/MM/engi were. heatseeker missile crit damage is just insane and too easy.

 

it's once every 60s, and I'm doing 22-24k cell bursts vs. 22-26k heatseekers. they're nearly identical crits.

 

I mention this more because I was surprised to see it rather than one or the other is op. I usually think of AP being so dangerous because every GCD averages 10-15k dmg (which is fricking huge). and mercs I think of more as hitting harder in a single gcd but the dmg from heatseeker is sort of an outlier. after that, I'm extatic to get 15k with rail. and 5-6k from each bolts tick. overall isn't much difference, but arsenal feels much more erratic. so when I saw my energy burst doing as much dmg as heatseekers, I was a bit surprised.

[Smilinghawk]

I play pvp merc on both specs, the only thing I'm wondering is how come boltstorm is so energy efficient at 16 energy when the gunny spec already has passive resource regen and simple energy management.

 

Maybe move discount heat to Assault into the tier that used to reduce full auto cooldown and give boltstorm the 28 heat cost?

[LordTurin]

The only OP thing is the sorc healer you're going round with.

 

Hilarious that you think its you.

 

Also, you play io... and you basically doubled what anyone else in that wz got in terms of damage (including 2 other merc dps who were probably arsenal). Sorry, what exactly is op here now?

[Romeugues]

Mercs are literally glass cannons, I have a gunnery Mando the only time you're reking someone is if they're terrible or if you have a healer following you around, as soon as people pay attention to you you're as good as dead without a healer.

I play pvp merc on both specs, the only thing I'm wondering is how come boltstorm is so energy efficient at 16 energy when the gunny spec already has passive resource regen and simple energy management.

 

Maybe move discount heat to Assault into the tier that used to reduce full auto cooldown and give boltstorm the 28 heat cost?

 

This, I haven't figured out why anyone would want to play IO/AS, heat management is terrible and the damage if you're perfect in your rotation isn't that much more, make one or two mistakes and you can seriously mess up your heat management.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Romeugues

[alienwareguy]

Also, you play io... and you basically doubled what anyone else in that wz got in terms of damage (including 2 other merc dps who were probably arsenal). Sorry, what exactly is op here now?

 

The point is, most Mercenary's represent the worst players in PVP. For some reason this class attracts really unexperienced, and often unprepared players. Like I've mentioned before, I've seen more backpeddling mercs than almost any other class so clearly not everyone is gonna perform well on it. But in the hands of an average to moderate player the Arsenal spec is doing way more than it should, especially in comparison the other ranged burst AC's Lighting and Marksmanship.

 

I am not at all surprised to see PVE mercs coming to this forum trying to defend arsenal spec. Its undebatable, undeniable that currently in PVE the vast majority of ranged players have rolled into arsenal, and for a reason. I'm not saying the spec needs to be gutted. I'm just saying that it needs to be brought in line with the other classes, all of which have lost their bonus surge critical damage. Only class in the game right now that retains the 30% is Mercenary, and it just makes no sense at all. If it wasn't for the totally ridiculousness of sorc healers at the moment this spec would be getting a lot more attention.

 

What I was trying to prove in my pvp video is that IO is totally viable, and its not underperforming. More people would be able to enjoy the spec if it wasn't shadowed by Arsenal. Its as if arsenal, the burst spec is the only option as it represents the vast majority of Mercenary players.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3522DZans

[aristrokratie]

Mercs are simply doubly (doubily? idk) unbalanced:

Their offense with net and their insane burst is really scary and needs to be toned down to the other classes' level, while they need huge buffs survivability wise.

 

The class is NOT op and tbh I haven't had the experience of mercs generally being worse players than on other classes

[alienwareguy]

The question that needs to be on everyone's mind is.. Why arsenal over IO? Why arsenal over lightning? Why arsenal over MM sniper? When you answer that question in your head honestly, you can then realize what's wrong here. Not only is arsenal eaiser to play than most specs, its highly mobile given the right utility selection, and highly destructive with very good defensive cooldowns. The issue is, so many players that underperform on other classes play mercenary, and desperately want something super easy that takes little effort to achieve high results, and that's exactly what we have here with Arsenal. It sacrifices nothing to have superior mobility with superior damage output. When played properly a mercenary is almost untouchable, if utilized correctly. A ranged player should not take much damage to begin with, I feel like most concerns about merc survivability come from improper positioning and face tanking. Edited March 27, 2016 by alienwareguy

[Flintfire]

The prophecy has been delivered. Mercenaries are now being whined about being OP!

 

 

On a realistic note, they have great offense but collapse under pressure from more than 1 melee and it really kills their outgoing damage.

 

But glad to see mercs after 4 years are getting some sort of attention, even from the naysayers. #NerfOperatives2016

[Volxen]

The question that needs to be on everyone's mind is.. Why arsenal over IO? Why arsenal over lightning? Why arsenal over MM sniper? When you answer that question in your head honestly, you can then realize what's wrong here. Not only is arsenal eaiser to play than most specs, its highly mobile given the right utility selection, and highly destructive with very good defensive cooldowns. The issue is, so many players that underperform on other classes play mercenary, and desperately want something super easy that takes little effort to achieve high results, and that's exactly what we have here with Arsenal. It sacrifices nothing to have superior mobility with superior damage output. When played properly a mercenary is almost untouchable, if utilized correctly. A ranged player should not take much damage to begin with, I feel like most concerns about merc survivability come from improper positioning and face tanking.

 

But is it really better than MM sniper? Merc's dont have cover (lea/pull/interrupt immunity), entrench (you can be immune to CC more than 50% of the time as a MM sniper), or the roll escape.

 

Also, are you talking about arsenal being "completely overpowered" in regs or arenas? Because that video that you linked to was just an 8 vs 8 in Voidstar. Most people seem to agree that mercs do OK In regs, since having 7 other people on your team potentially decreases your chances of being focused fired down right off the bat. But in arenas -- even unranked 4 vs 4s -- mercs are almost always the first target people take down. And in the fact in arenas, none of the three ranged burst specs in this game (lightning, arsenal, marksmanship) are popular. Mercs are definitely underpowered and underperforming in 4 vs 4 and ranked in general.

[Lhancelot]

All this does is show the complete cluelessness of the common pvper on this game. Now, mercs are "overpowered". I have seen it all now.

 

"Nerf Operatives meme should be replaced with "Nerf Mercs". It's 2016 afterall, time for a new and ridiculous meme.

[aristrokratie]

The prophecy has been delivered. Mercenaries are now being whined about being OP!

 

 

On a realistic note, they have great offense but collapse under pressure from more than 1 melee and it really kills their outgoing damage.

 

But glad to see mercs after 4 years are getting some sort of attention, even from the naysayers. #NerfOperatives2016

 

I'd be for reducing their ''lolburst'' and giving them some more reliable but not as insane if left alone damage so that they aren't as easily shut down, while increasing their survivability

[Floplag]

The point is, most Mercenary's represent the worst players in PVP. For some reason this class attracts really unexperienced, and often unprepared players. Like I've mentioned before, I've seen more backpeddling mercs than almost any other class so clearly not everyone is gonna perform well on it. But in the hands of an average to moderate player the Arsenal spec is doing way more than it should, especially in comparison the other ranged burst AC's Lighting and Marksmanship.

 

I am not at all surprised to see PVE mercs coming to this forum trying to defend arsenal spec. Its undebatable, undeniable that currently in PVE the vast majority of ranged players have rolled into arsenal, and for a reason. I'm not saying the spec needs to be gutted. I'm just saying that it needs to be brought in line with the other classes, all of which have lost their bonus surge critical damage. Only class in the game right now that retains the 30% is Mercenary, and it just makes no sense at all. If it wasn't for the totally ridiculousness of sorc healers at the moment this spec would be getting a lot more attention.

 

What I was trying to prove in my pvp video is that IO is totally viable, and its not underperforming. More people would be able to enjoy the spec if it wasn't shadowed by Arsenal. Its as if arsenal, the burst spec is the only option as it represents the vast majority of Mercenary players.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3522DZans

 

NOTHING is PVE is hard so lets dispense with that right now. Now as to Mercs being the worst players... that is utterly asinine statement.

 

Those who choose to play Mercs in PvP fall into 2 categories: Those who simply like the class, and those who want a challenge, or both. Most have no illusions about it, we know what we are, we know our weaknesses, we know we are targets, we know we have bar far the lowest life expectancy of any other class even if we play it perfect.

 

I find FOTM/OP classes completely boring and devoid of any skill requirements. They are mindless. I have one of each class, i play them all, and i can do more damage nad live far longer on other classes without any fear than i can on a Merc. I play the Merc precisely for the challenge. Being competitive on a Merc is FAR harder than most other classes especially if you are stupid enough to run it solo without premade backup like i do.

 

You sir either have no idea what you are talking about, play nothing but fotm/op classes, roll nothing but premades, or all of the above. Either way, you are wrong, period.

[alienwareguy]

NOTHING is PVE is hard so lets dispense with that right now. Now as to Mercs being the worst players... that is utterly asinine statement.

 

Those who choose to play Mercs in PvP fall into 2 categories: Those who simply like the class, and those who want a challenge, or both. Most have no illusions about it, we know what we are, we know our weaknesses, we know we are targets, we know we have bar far the lowest life expectancy of any other class even if we play it perfect.

 

I find FOTM/OP classes completely boring and devoid of any skill requirements. They are mindless. I have one of each class, i play them all, and i can do more damage nad live far longer on other classes without any fear than i can on a Merc. I play the Merc precisely for the challenge. Being competitive on a Merc is FAR harder than most other classes especially if you are stupid enough to run it solo without premade backup like i do.

 

You sir either have no idea what you are talking about, play nothing but fotm/op classes, roll nothing but premades, or all of the above. Either way, you are wrong, period.

 

 

You do realize Mercenary is the second most played class in the game right now. Its VERY VERY FOTM.... You need to open your eyes and take a look around. Just type /65 mercenary, and do the same for every other class, and you can clearly see where the population is.

Edited March 27, 2016 by alienwareguy

[DerSchneider]

You do realize Mercenary is the second most played class in the game right now. Its VERY VERY FOTM.... You need to open your eyes and take a look around. Just type /65 mercenary, and do the same for every other class, and you can clearly see where the population is.

 

They aren't second most played class, man. The overall popularity (not OPness) is: sorc>jugg>mara>pt>sin>merc>operative>sniper. This is because 1) Kylo ren hype (jugg and sorc) and 2) agents and smugglers are the hardest classes in pvp, and they always (except early overpowered operatives) were.

 

However, in PvE mercs and snipers (as well as mandos and slingers) are more popular, because of dumb bioware pve mechanic that favors ranged classes.

Edited March 27, 2016 by DerSchneider

[alienwareguy]

They aren't second most played class, man. The overall popularity (not OPness) is: sorc>jugg>mara>pt>sin>merc>operative>sniper. This is because 1) Kylo ren hype (jugg and sorc) and 2) agents and smugglers are the hardest classes in pvp, and they always (except early overpowered operatives) were.

 

However, in PvE mercs and snipers (as well as mandos and slingers) are more popular, because of dumb bioware pve mechanic that favors ranged classes.

 

Well the server pop is very different on Shadowlands, its more like Sorc-Merc-Jugg-Mara-Sin-Sniper-Op-Pt. And I agree that agents are currently the hardest class to play in PVP, and yes this game is in huge favor of ranged in PVE AND PVP currently. I log on Mercenary or Sorc when I want an easy time, kicking it at 30m blowing people up, with half the effort it takes to play an operative or marauder. Its just simple logic, at 30m range you get stunned/rooted/knockback less often. Its the melee that have to eat most of the CC and exert the most effort in the match..

Edited March 27, 2016 by alienwareguy

[Kiesu]

It is odd how merc is able to pull same dps numbers as snipers/marar, who are pure dps ad got no offhealing to speak of. Wouldn't call it balance when they can pump out the deeps and heal in between with no real dps loss. When it comes to diversity+dps output on 8v8 mercs win on all parts. On arena Mercs are rather easy to shut down, but 8v8 they truly are on top of things.

Well, sorcs are even more OP when balance comparing DPS/HPS to pure dps classes, granted.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Kiesu

[Floplag]

You do realize Mercenary is the second most played class in the game right now. Its VERY VERY FOTM.... You need to open your eyes and take a look around. Just type /65 mercenary, and do the same for every other class, and you can clearly see where the population is.

 

Perhaps overall in game but not in PvP which is what this forum is about. I see far more Sorcs, Juggs, Maras, Ops, Sins, and even PTs than i do Mercs most of the time in PvP... so you should qualify your statement as they are definitely 2 different worlds and not use observations that include PvE in a PvP discussion.

 

FYI just did a 65 check on Harb,, Merc, Sorc, Jugg, Mara, Assasin had 91, all had over 100 results, operative, sniper, and pt had between 70-80. Your math is not valid.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Floplag

[BenduKundalini]

I don't always play arsenal merc...

 

...but when I do I get SO globalled.

Edited March 27, 2016 by BenduKundalini

[ToMyMa]

Let me analyse arsenal spec with my decent pvp (ranked and not) and little pve experience.

How does arsenal perform in pvp?

 

1v1 - Completely great. All melee specs (except concealment ofc) are killable 1v1 and you can try even a jugg tank. From ranged specs, if there are LoS objects madness can win. In contrary, sniper can win only if there are completely no LoS objects.

Regs: Completely great. Ranged, mobility, self heals - check.

Yolo ranked - Below medium, because mercs are easy to shut down by several people. Still better than IO or pyrotech. If they left to freecast, or there is 1v1 fight then arsenal shines.

Team ranked - I didn't play team ranked with my mando, but experienced people say that arsenal is average in team ranked. The reason is that they are easy to interrupt. However I saw arsenal team ranked movies with crazy hardswaps. So I still think arsenal merc is viable in team ranked, maybe not as much as AP PT.

 

Let's compare this to some specs that typically are considered OP (not my position though):

 

1) AP PT - 1v1 good, regs good, solo ranked decent, team ranked - awesome.

2) Vengeance jugg - 1v1 good, regs good, solo ranked great, team ranked - bad.

3) Madness sorc - 1v1 awesome, regs awesome, solo ranked great, team ranked average.

 

How does it perform in pve?

As I know, best parsing specs are still annihilation and engineering. The fact that arsenal parses more than I.O. with rotation easiness doesn't mean that arsenal is OP. Just devs are not competent in specs balance and nerfed I.O. without any reason.

 

What advantages does arsenal have?

 

1) Crazy burst. Hands down the highest spike of all classes, however AP PT has longer burst.

2) Self heals. Weaker than sorc ones, but still great. 0.2 sec cast after two tracers is lovely

3) Decent mobility. Even with nerfed HO, I still found overall merc mobility great. Rocket out is very useful.

4) Very good CC. Hardstun, solo mezz, electro net, aoe knockback, huge slow on boltstorm.

 

What cons?

 

1) With heavy armor and all cooldowns still squishy. Not really squishy though, just not designed to resist many people's attacks.

2) No oh sheet button, that's why all mercs are often getting focused first.

3) With all instant-use buffs, arsenal is still a caster with no CC immunity -> vulnerable.

 

Verdict:

There are 2 points of view:

First - arsenal is typical glass cannon, his burst and squishiness are features of the class.

Second - damage needs to be toned down a little (probably only boltstorm ticks) and survivability must be redisigned in favor of arenas.

 

Overall, I certainly don't think arsenal is completely OP, its damage (mainly boltstorm ticks) may be a little too much, but in case of nerf mercs should gain survivability in return.

 

A very well done analysis, and in the right hands mercs will look completely overpowered - 2v1s are definitely a possibility against less skilled players.

 

@OP: Dunno how you came to the conclusion that mercs were harder to kill than sorcs, considering that sorcs have 2 escapes and an ungodly amount of selfheals. I play both classes a lot, and sorc is definitely the better of them in all departments BUT burst and duels. Furthermore, have a gander on ToFN someday, will ya? Then you can try out merc against 50% sorcs and 50% melee and "enjoy" the FoTMness, aight?

Edited March 27, 2016 by ToMyMa

[Kaedusz]

Well the server pop is very different on Shadowlands, its more like Sorc-Merc-Jugg-Mara-Sin-Sniper-Op-Pt. And I agree that agents are currently the hardest class to play in PVP, and yes this game is in huge favor of ranged in PVE AND PVP currently. I log on Mercenary or Sorc when I want an easy time, kicking it at 30m blowing people up, with half the effort it takes to play an operative or marauder. Its just simple logic, at 30m range you get stunned/rooted/knockback less often. Its the melee that have to eat most of the CC and exert the most effort in the match..

 

What you are complaining about is a ranged vs melee thing, not a merc thing.

 

And out of those merc is hardest, operative easiest and mara in the middle. If you are comparing difficulty of dps rotations, then you have no busyness talking at all about PvP.

Also mercs are not among the classes one sees most often in wzs.

 

It is odd how merc is able to pull same dps numbers as snipers/marar, who are pure dps ad got no offhealing to speak of. Wouldn't call it balance when they can pump out the deeps and heal in between with no real dps loss.

 

Maras or snipers not being a guaranteed first place on damage done is old news and the same counts for pts, sorcs, sins, operatives and juggs not only mercs. Again, as above, this is not a merc issue.

 

It mostly depends on who is actually chasing the big numbers and/or spends more time engaging the enemy with a healer on his back. - (With the current ongoing sorchealer cancer pretty much almost always every1 has healer backup.)

 

The classes which most often end up being on top, on my server, are snipers, juggs and sorcs. All the rest of the classes pop up often enough too. Having most damage done and dps is not a class constant. It has a lot of end result influencing variables, rarely related to class balance.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kaedusz