cmlfree Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) OK I just have to get this off my chest, but i is the point of playing a tank if you do not use guard? after being in an area with 3 tanks, and seeing 1 got 0 prot, and the other 2 did not break 20k, it begs the question, whats the *********** point? I don't care if you throw it on me (the only pure DPS) of each other, but *********** use it, you are a tank, your primary job is to mitigate damage!!! not be a gimped DPS. Edited March 2, 2016 by cmlfree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 there really isn't any. they probably think it makes them more "survivable" than a dps, but it really doesn't, due to the same reason your going for high endurance dps stats instead of tank stats. without taunt/guard a dps tank is just a watered down dps. you're not doing as much damage and your dying about the same time a dps would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It's just force of habit -- and a bad one, at that. Most usually its from new players with L2P issues. They don't perceive it as much of a problem, and in some extreme cases they don't even know such a function exists. They don't use it in PvE, since after the (relatively) recent changes all companions can heal and survive well without having to worry about setting companion gear. In other words, they rarely have any content in PvE that requires active guard, so they rarely -- if ever -- use it in the first place. Then they enter PvP, and due to lack of experience + reality of PuG matches, many of them never get to truly experience just how "gamechanger" a well placed guard can be. ... Not surprisingly, there's also the other end of the problem, where the "guardee" doesn't really support the "guardian" well. Countless times I try to identify the most important member of my team, and actively guard the person... except, as an opposite case, the guy doesn't realize that he's being protected, and just acts like as if he is playing solo. Yeah, it's been 3 years since I've last played SWTOR, but in my prime, I've practiced the game enough to actively switch guards upon situation to protect different people by the second, while at the same time fighting 2~3 guys simultaneously. Then after I've returned to SWTOR, start levelling a new alt, and in the WZ all I see is people who don't really know what "guard" means. Times like these I almost understand why some tank players don't really bother to guard people. (Of course, not that they don't use guard under the same reason as myself) Even still, without even a single drop of heal received, I still try to guard as many people as possible as often as possible -- but it is getting increasingly difficult by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikSunrider Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 ::snip:: Yeah, it's been 3 years since I've last played SWTOR, but in my prime, I've practiced the game enough to actively switch guards upon situation to protect different people by the second, while at the same time fighting 2~3 guys simultaneously. Then after I've returned to SWTOR, start levelling a new alt, and in the WZ all I see is people who don't really know what "guard" means. Times like these I almost understand why some tank players don't really bother to guard people. (Of course, not that they don't use guard under the same reason as myself) Even still, without even a single drop of heal received, I still try to guard as many people as possible as often as possible -- but it is getting increasingly difficult by the day. I cannot agree more, with your post, and your signature. Very, very true. As a person who played tank for years on end, I can confirm. Most people think higher HP means they survive better. Trouble is, with a mindest like that, they don't have the skill to take advantage of it, and are doing piss-poor DPS. I consider myself an objective player, and the sad reality is that I will guard as a healer, if no-one else will. Oftentimes I've found myslef guardswapping around a node not because some people were taking more damage than others, but because some people were within range while i chased away cappers (hello civil war mid node, I'm looking at you! how you can run out of guard range there is beyond me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volxen Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It's just force of habit -- and a bad one, at that. Most usually its from new players with L2P issues. They don't perceive it as much of a problem, and in some extreme cases they don't even know such a function exists. They don't use it in PvE, since after the (relatively) recent changes all companions can heal and survive well without having to worry about setting companion gear. In other words, they rarely have any content in PvE that requires active guard, so they rarely -- if ever -- use it in the first place. Then they enter PvP, and due to lack of experience + reality of PuG matches, many of them never get to truly experience just how "gamechanger" a well placed guard can be. ... Not surprisingly, there's also the other end of the problem, where the "guardee" doesn't really support the "guardian" well. Countless times I try to identify the most important member of my team, and actively guard the person... except, as an opposite case, the guy doesn't realize that he's being protected, and just acts like as if he is playing solo. Yeah, it's been 3 years since I've last played SWTOR, but in my prime, I've practiced the game enough to actively switch guards upon situation to protect different people by the second, while at the same time fighting 2~3 guys simultaneously. Then after I've returned to SWTOR, start levelling a new alt, and in the WZ all I see is people who don't really know what "guard" means. Times like these I almost understand why some tank players don't really bother to guard people. (Of course, not that they don't use guard under the same reason as myself) Even still, without even a single drop of heal received, I still try to guard as many people as possible as often as possible -- but it is getting increasingly difficult by the day. They really, really need to have protection numbers come up like healing numbers do. They could make it come up in blue, which is the same color as the guard shield itself. I don't know why it hasn't been done, as I know I'm not the first person to think of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volxen Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I'm just curious, but in 8 vs 8 is there ever a situation in which having, for example, one healer and one tank is actually better than having two healers? From the perspective of a healer, it seems like having another healer to cross-heal with (and of course to help you with healing all of your team mates) is more beneficial than having a tank to put guard on you. Especially if both you and the other healer are sorcs. I know guard is strong in PVP, and that healer-tank combos can be difficult to deal with. But with the current meta, it seems like two sorc healers >>>>>>>>>>>>> one sorc healer and one tank. Are you better off in regs with just DPS and (sorc) healers and no tanks? Are tanks in regs just a wasted spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) I'm just curious, but in 8 vs 8 is there ever a situation in which having, for example, one healer and one tank is actually better than having two healers? From the perspective of a healer, it seems like having another healer to cross-heal with (and of course to help you with healing all of your team mates) is more beneficial than having a tank to put guard on you. Especially if both you and the other healer are sorcs. I know guard is strong in PVP, and that healer-tank combos can be difficult to deal with. But with the current meta, it seems like two sorc healers >>>>>>>>>>>>> one sorc healer and one tank. Are you better off in regs with just DPS and (sorc) healers and no tanks? Are tanks in regs just a wasted spot? I wouldn't go so far as to say this decides it, but something to consider is that you can stop the other healers output, at least in tbeory, with stuns, interrupts, ect. But the guard or taunt from a stunned tank continues to work just fine. [Edit: I suppose you could say the same about HOTs though, so maybe that's not an advantage after all. ] Edited March 2, 2016 by Banderal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegi Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Had a sin tank in an arena yesterday say "If you out dpsed me I would sacrifice my health to protect you". He said that to a sniper on our team who requested a guard in round 2 after taking most of the other team's damage. Now... why would you go tank spec just to dps? you're telling me that you won't fulfill your role unless everyone else is just as survivable as you are and can face-tank damage while putting out a lot yourself? this just absolutely blew my mind. Why not just switch to dps spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTiphis Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Had a sin tank in an arena yesterday say "If you out dpsed me I would sacrifice my health to protect you". He said that to a sniper on our team who requested a guard in round 2 after taking most of the other team's damage. Now... why would you go tank spec just to dps? you're telling me that you won't fulfill your role unless everyone else is just as survivable as you are and can face-tank damage while putting out a lot yourself? this just absolutely blew my mind. Why not just switch to dps spec? As a player who mains a sin tank in dps gear I kind of see where he is coming from but not if the guy was focused. I usually use guard all the time, but if the dps on my team do significantly less dps than I do AND they are not getting focused then it's a little harder to justify guarding. If I see a guy who isn't getting focused, putting out horrible dps, and survives longer than I do, he most likely will not be getting my guard unless we have a healer and I guard swap. This is of course only applicable if the utility of a tank is not needed ie huttball, team with healers etc. As far as the OP, I taunt pretty much on cd on any character who has a taunt regardless of tank or dps spec. Also you can't have more than half the team guarding anyway even if they are all tanks. But it sounds like none of the tanks were using taunts at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbleton Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Immortal jugg smash kill no guard pleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 They really, really need to have protection numbers come up like healing numbers do. They could make it come up in blue, which is the same color as the guard shield itself. I don't know why it hasn't been done, as I know I'm not the first person to think of this. lol. that would be kinda cool. what colors are available? not green, yellow, white. maybe a shade of blue to match the blue shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Pryor_ Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 OK I just have to get this off my chest, but i is the point of playing a tank if you do not use guard? after being in an area with 3 tanks, and seeing 1 got 0 prot, and the other 2 did not break 20k, it begs the question, whats the *********** point? I don't care if you throw it on me (the only pure DPS) of each other, but *********** use it, you are a tank, your primary job is to mitigate damage!!! not be a gimped DPS. I feel ya man....I had this exact same situation a couple weeks ago. Was on my AP PT, with 3 tanks (1 Jugg, 2 Sins), No guard given even though I requested it. The worst part about it......I was insta-focused (as expected) and I was the only person on my team to have any protection points in either of the two rounds. Needless to say, when my next q popped, and those three bags of d**k tips were on my team again, I waved goodbye and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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