Slicing nodes broken, giving way too many credits since 4.1

[MeNaCe-NZ]

where exactly are you getting that estimate? what gives you any idea it is accurate? or even remotely possible? how does that compare to the billions coming in from heroics?

 

That comes in around 17 nodes harvested a minute over all instances ... not sure on the respawn time myself but it doesn't seem overly unrealistic.

 

Now that you asked how someone comes to an estimate and wonder how it's remotely possible ... where did your "billions coming in from heroics" come from exactly?

[squirrelballz]

That comes in around 17 nodes harvested a minute over all instances ... not sure on the respawn time myself but it doesn't seem overly unrealistic.

 

Now that you asked how someone comes to an estimate and wonder how it's remotely possible ... where did your "billions coming in from heroics" come from exactly?

 

I personally could see hundreds of millions not billions from heroics but more people before 4.1 at least were and will continue to do heroics often because it is part of the alliance grind and altoholics probably run them like crazy. Where as slicing's only benefit is credits heroics dish out much more things and isn't repetitive, heroics give out all together Credits, credit bonuses, a lock box, armor and credits from said lock-box. I'd bet a fair amount that more people do heroics.

Edited February 24, 2016 by squirrelballz

[ivanhedgehog]

That comes in around 17 nodes harvested a minute over all instances ... not sure on the respawn time myself but it doesn't seem overly unrealistic.

 

Now that you asked how someone comes to an estimate and wonder how it's remotely possible ... where did your "billions coming in from heroics" come from exactly?

 

800- 900k players doing all heroics per week. if you can assume max numbers so can I. both are just wild assed guesses. only the devs know exactly. 17 per zone? 1 min respawn, that is way too quick, it is a lot longer than that. and they do not get collected 100% upon respawn, ask anyone without slicing that runs around those zones and sees them sitting there.

Edited February 24, 2016 by ivanhedgehog

[mmobrew]

If heroics give out good credits and its what most people actually do then why even have slicing nodes give credits? Credit selling bots are the ones mostly getting the slicing nodes along with a very small amount of people that farm them.

 

If the large majority of people don't even bother with slicing nodes and there is other things like heroics giving out good credits. Why raise the credits you get from slicing nodes or even have slicing nodes give credits anymore when it has no positive impact on the game?

[squirrelballz]

If heroics give out good credits and its what most people actually do then why even have slicing nodes give credits? Credit selling bots are the ones mostly getting the slicing nodes along with a very small amount of people that farm them.

 

Your proof is what exactly? I've seen a couple of bots but that certainly hasn't stopped people from slicing. They give slicing credits because it doesn't give materials and I like it that way if you don't then don't slice and leave the rest of us alone to mind our business.

 

If the large majority of people don't even bother with slicing nodes and there is other things like heroics giving out good credits. Why raise the credits you get from slicing nodes or even have slicing nodes give credits anymore when it has no positive impact on the game?

 

Agreed. Point being, if you have slicing, you automatically don't have something else that completes the trinity of crafting. If you run companion gift missions you can sell those on the GTN for more profit than you should. Heck, if you run bioanalysis and you farm on Rishi or Yavin you can make - pound for pound - MORE than lockboxes yield by selling on the GTN. Let's not mention that treasure hunting lockboxes right now are also insta-profit. Crew skills are generally in a good place, let's enjoy it until the next nerf.

[mmobrew]

Your proof is what exactly? I've seen a couple of bots but that certainly hasn't stopped people from slicing. They give slicing credits because it doesn't give materials and I like it that way if you don't then don't slice and leave the rest of us alone to mind our business.

 

Basically just because you like something it should stay even though it has a huge negative impact on the game?

 

You have heroics that give a lot of credits which bots can't do.

 

vs

 

Slicing nodes that now give a lot of credits which bots can easily do 24/7.

 

If they made slicing nodes give materials only, you can still get all your credits from heroics and all the other stuff you haven been saying that is just as good as slicing. You would still even be able to get your "run around and click game objects" fix after the change.

 

So why exactly are you fighting to the death for slicing? Makes absolutely no sense when there is no meaningful gain.

[Max_Killjoy]

Basically just because you like something it should stay even though it has a huge negative impact on the game?

 

You have heroics that give a lot of credits which bots can't do.

 

vs

 

Slicing nodes that now give a lot of credits which bots can easily do 24/7.

 

If they made slicing nodes give materials only, you can still get all your credits from heroics and all the other stuff you haven been saying that is just as good as slicing. You would still even be able to get your "run around and click game objects" fix after the change.

 

So why exactly are you fighting to the death for slicing? Makes absolutely no sense when there is no meaningful gain.

 

Because Bioware's history tells us that they'll turn the nodes into useless landscape features, rather than adjusting them slightly or doing something to make them less "bottable".

[IanArgent]

Because Bioware's history tells us that they'll turn the nodes into useless landscape features, rather than adjusting them slightly or doing something to make them less "bottable".

 

They could give them the Security Chest treatment - which, to be fair, did make those terrain features for some people. I see a lot more of those available for clicking these days. But I would expect they'd nerf the payout from high orbit, myself

[Max_Killjoy]

They could give them the Security Chest treatment - which, to be fair, did make those terrain features for some people. I see a lot more of those available for clicking these days. But I would expect they'd nerf the payout from high orbit, myself

 

I'd rather they toned the credit payout down to a single scaled lockbox, and made the rest of the return sliced tech parts, schematics, and gathering mission unlocks.

 

Of course, I've seen at least one person in chat react to that idea by claiming that putting more schematics into the system will "devalue crafting", so who knows what grounds people will object on...

[IanArgent]

I'd rather they toned the credit payout down to a single scaled lockbox, and made the rest of the return sliced tech parts, schematics, and gathering mission unlocks.

 

Of course, I've seen at least one person in chat react to that idea by claiming that putting more schematics into the system will "devalue crafting", so who knows what grounds people will object on...

 

That's what I meant by the Security Chest treatment - basically, anything that could be returned by a slicing crew run, and a single scaled lockbox. As long as the schematics aren't for Ice Scrabbler Jerky...

[Max_Killjoy]

That's what I meant by the Security Chest treatment - basically, anything that could be returned by a slicing crew run, and a single scaled lockbox. As long as the schematics aren't for Ice Scrabbler Jerky...

 

I was thinking of the Security Chest treatment as "here's maybe a med pack, maybe a green item, and some random crafting mats".

[nissanmaxima]

There are a million different things, game changing things that are broke in this game that you could be complaining about. A few extra credits dropping from a slicing lockbox is not one of them.

 

Find something more productive to do on the forums.

Edited February 24, 2016 by nissanmaxima

[IanArgent]

I was thinking of the Security Chest treatment as "here's maybe a med pack, maybe a green item, and some random crafting mats".

 

That's the gentle BW Balance touch for you. I did notice some credits are sneaking back into the security chests recently.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I personally could see hundreds of millions not billions from heroics but more people before 4.1 at least were and will continue to do heroics often because it is part of the alliance grind and altoholics probably run them like crazy. Where as slicing's only benefit is credits heroics dish out much more things and isn't repetitive, heroics give out all together Credits, credit bonuses, a lock box, armor and credits from said lock-box. I'd bet a fair amount that more people do heroics.

 

Heroics can't be botted ( well wouldn't even be worth attempting imo ) ... don't assume the comment on credits generated into the economy was about legitimate players.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

800- 900k players doing all heroics per week. if you can assume max numbers so can I. both are just wild assed guesses. only the devs know exactly. 17 per zone? 1 min respawn, that is way too quick, it is a lot longer than that. and they do not get collected 100% upon respawn, ask anyone without slicing that runs around those zones and sees them sitting there.

 

You actually have any knowledge on this topic at all or just posting for the hell of it? Because if you did you would be aware of the amount of bots around and also the new strangeness which is stealth harvesting.

 

You still haven't really dictated where your "billions" comes from - all I did was give you the number per minute required to hit the total the poster gave. He was also talking about "daily" which you quoted with your "billions" statement but now you are talking about per week? Which is it? How many billions?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

There are a million different things, game changing things that are broke in this game that you could be complaining about. A few extra credits dropping from a slicing lockbox is not one of them.

 

Find something more productive to do on the forums.

 

Like reading and replying to a thread you don't think should exist ... yup real productive.

[ivanhedgehog]

You actually have any knowledge on this topic at all or just posting for the hell of it? Because if you did you would be aware of the amount of bots around and also the new strangeness which is stealth harvesting.

 

You still haven't really dictated where your "billions" comes from - all I did was give you the number per minute required to hit the total the poster gave. He was also talking about "daily" which you quoted with your "billions" statement but now you are talking about per week? Which is it? How many billions?

 

if you can tell us how many actual bots there are, please, by all means, give us the actual numbers. you didnt give us an actual number per minute, you gave us your guess. you have absolutely no idea, unless you are a bioware dev. I kind of doubt that you are. 200k per character times 800k accounts(assuming just 1 alt which would be low) is 160000000000 per week. makes those slicing boxes look weak now doesnt it.

 

If bots are the problem, fix the damn bots. dont nerf the game

[TitaniaZero]

What annoys me about this... is that at game release so many years ago... slicing was great. Then because it was killing the economy they nerfed them into the ground, making the gather prof absolutely useless.

 

Come F2P and somewhere down the line they gave slicing missions something to gather other than pointless boxes.

 

Now its back and even worse now, and I know... they'll nerf it into the ground again.

[LordArtemis]

Well, I think I mentioned earlier....put slicing terminals in heroics, reduce open world slicing nodes dramatically in credit payout. There would still be a payout, but perhaps it would be 10 percent of what it is now....but the terminals in heroics would offer HUGE payouts.

 

Say perhaps 10k per terminal, perhaps 2 to 3 terminals per instanced heroic. And they would offer perhaps 5 times the normal points toward slicing.

 

I feel it is important to keep the current income level for legitimate slicers, but still find some way to discourage botters.

 

Of course, if Bioware had some way to monitor and boot players that engage in this kind of behavior there would be no need.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, I think I mentioned earlier....put slicing terminals in heroics, reduce open world slicing nodes dramatically in credit payout. There would still be a payout, but perhaps it would be 10 percent of what it is now....but the terminals in heroics would offer HUGE payouts.

 

Say perhaps 10k per terminal, perhaps 2 to 3 terminals per instanced heroic. And they would offer perhaps 5 times the normal points toward slicing.

 

I feel it is important to keep the current income level for legitimate slicers, but still find some way to discourage botters.

 

Of course, if Bioware had some way to monitor and boot players that engage in this kind of behavior there would be no need.

 

Seems a bit much to lock yet more of the game behind the mediocre new "heroics, heroics, heroics" paradigm...

[PennyAnn]

This thread is ridiculous.

 

Do you complain to your boss on payday that your paycheck has too much money in it too?

 

On a more serious note, you talk about the economy of this game like it isn't already completely out of whack. Nothing about the slicing nodes being the way they are will make the economy more/less screwy than it already is and always will be.

 

Credit farmers are going to credit farm regardless of what is in those boxes. It will make 0 difference in the credit farming world to change them. You know who it WILL affect? Legitimate players who are just trying to make a little extra spending cash WITHOUT buying credits from credit farmers. But by all means, cut those people off at the knees.

 

I also agree with the notion that you should NEVER ask Bioware to "nerf" something. It has never ended well. They always sledgehammer things into oblivion and never "balance" the way people expect. If you want them to take the value of slicing nodes out of the game entirely, then by all means keep after them about this. Otherwise just leave it alone. None of the arguments you make in favor of changing it will make any difference.

 

Again, I agree with the notion that there are literally HUNDREDS of things more important to fix than this. It is a non-issue by comparison.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

if you can tell us how many actual bots there are, please, by all means, give us the actual numbers. you didnt give us an actual number per minute, you gave us your guess. you have absolutely no idea, unless you are a bioware dev. I kind of doubt that you are. 200k per character times 800k accounts(assuming just 1 alt which would be low) is 160000000000 per week. makes those slicing boxes look weak now doesnt it.

 

If bots are the problem, fix the damn bots. dont nerf the game

 

A guess?

 

300,000,000 divided into minutes in the day ( 1,440 if you can't figure this one out ) = 208K per minute. @ 12K per high level node ( taking the low end number of the first post in this thread ) that's 17 required per minute server wide to hit the posters total. As I side, to me this doesn't seem so far out of the realms of possibility as you believe it to be.

 

Now take into consideration all other nodes game wide that may not yield as much but for the purposes of botting is still simple credits and 100's of millions generated per day per server isn't that much of a stretch.

 

Now you seem to be implying there are 800,000 accounts per server actively doing heroics and making 200K a week ... now THIS seems outside of the realm of possibility to me but *shrug* I can't prove otherwise I guess.

 

Lastly as to the slicing for credit increase ... why exactly should slicing get nodes that reward credits when every other crew skill doesn't? They have arguably the best mats provided in terms of value than any other crew skill with their sliced parts so why also provide huge incentive like this? Not exactly what I would call balanced.

[nadoshot]

This thread is ridiculous.

 

Do you complain to your boss on payday that your paycheck has too much money in it too?

 

On a more serious note, you talk about the economy of this game like it isn't already completely out of whack. Nothing about the slicing nodes being the way they are will make the economy more/less screwy than it already is and always will be.

 

Credit farmers are going to credit farm regardless of what is in those boxes. It will make 0 difference in the credit farming world to change them. You know who it WILL affect? Legitimate players who are just trying to make a little extra spending cash WITHOUT buying credits from credit farmers. But by all means, cut those people off at the knees.

 

I also agree with the notion that you should NEVER ask Bioware to "nerf" something. It has never ended well. They always sledgehammer things into oblivion and never "balance" the way people expect. If you want them to take the value of slicing nodes out of the game entirely, then by all means keep after them about this. Otherwise just leave it alone. None of the arguments you make in favor of changing it will make any difference.

 

Again, I agree with the notion that there are literally HUNDREDS of things more important to fix than this. It is a non-issue by comparison.

 

If I suddenly got triple my paycheck, I would ask what is going on because there most likely was an error. If drug dealers that hand out around my work place start getting a paycheck and they end up making more than the people working. Then you are damn right that I'm going to complain.

 

You are right that credit farmers will still credit farm but there is a huge difference. They won't be generating the massive amounts of credits and greatly increasing inflation without the large amount from slicing.

 

People like you just look at what is in front of your face and not the bigger picture. For example say they leave slicing exactly how it is. The rate of inflation greatly increases and the value of your hard earned credits drop. Eventually credit sellers will be selling massive amounts of credits for practically nothing. Which means less people will buy credits by going through the cartel market so less money for Bioware. Which also leads to people getting bored with the game quicker and moving on since you can get everything so easy.

 

Lets also not forget the cheating environment vibe giving off by all the bots farming the nodes which results in frustrated people. Yes there will always be some bots but it is 10x worse when you watch them get massive currency when it can easily be stopped. Keep in mind this is just a few things for example, this has a huge chain reaction on the game.

 

You are also hilariously wrong about a slicing change having an effect on players. People who buy credits don't farm in the first place. That is the whole point of them buying credits so they don't have to farm. Also that fact that people keep screaming how great credits from heroics are and they are so much better than slicing. Then why are a little extra credits from slicing needed? Just make an alt which is more fun and do more heroics?

 

Lastly some people keep implying there is more important things as if altering slicing is a month long project. When in reality its a few hours at most of work so its not going to take away from other things getting fixed.

[Unperson]

Do you complain to your boss on payday that your paycheck has too much money in it too?

 

If your paycheck suddenly read "Pay to the order of PennyAnn Eleventy Gajillion Dollars USD" but everyone was now making at least as much, you can bet your *** you'd be complaining, because prices would raise to match the massive amounts of -essentially worthless- currency now in circulation. See, it wouldn't be just you getting a marvelous raise, and it's not just you getting them sweet blue lockboxes from slicing nodes. Despite earning "more", you are effectively poorer.

 

That's the risk of runaway inflation, it affects everyone -- but especially those "legitimate players" that would waste their time chasing nodes, because their meager savings cannot really buy anything anymore. At that point in-game currency is useless beyond dealing with the unavoidable credit sinks built into the system and the economy transitions into a barter system, where wealth is stored as valuable/rare items, think Dark Matter Catalysts. That's not a bad thing per se, but again, it hits new and casual players especially hard.

 

And no, sorry, but "bots gonna bot/economy is already in bad shape" is no excuse to let the issue be. More like the opposite, in fact.

[LordArtemis]

Seems a bit much to lock yet more of the game behind the mediocre new "heroics, heroics, heroics" paradigm...

 

Fair enough. It was just one idea, but the idea was to set up the best slicing nodes behind instances, since that would be less appealing to botters. It doesn't prevent folks from farming of course, but that can't be prevented in any case to my knowledge.

 

At any rate, the best option would be to find a way to track character toons that have odd movement patterns that do not change.