Max_Killjoy Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 So now using one of the signature attacks for mercs is an "exploit"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezarkan Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 So if a character is at X,Y... and then is at X+100, Y+129 in under one second... the game can't red-flag that as suspicious? Either way, I did post several suggestions earlier in one of these many threads on the topic. There has been a lot of talk lately about the bots slicing on Yavin 4 and Zakuul. Some of the suggested "fixes" from players have been draconian overreaction, to say the least. Instead, here are my suggested steps for making sure this isn't a problem: 1) more node spawn locations, spawning more randomly in location and timing, and never with a PC or companion within X distance -- this would make it harder for the bots to be in the right place at the right time to instant-gather. 2) place more of the nodes in locations where mobs will agro, flagging the bots for combat and complicating their timing and movement. 3) change the contents of slicing nodes to no more than one credit box, with the rest of the "payout" in sliced tech parts, schematics, and crew skill mission unlocks. 4) engage in a far more robust effort to target the actual botters, instead of making things harder for real normal players. my understanding is that in a 3d game there is a lot of leeway given to the client when it comes to movement because of lag and it mostly trusts the client and if it had to be absolutely sure of a person's location then it would be too much for the server to calculate all the time. at least it was like this in the past and maybe with more modern server technology they could do it. if two people are moving in a 3d game and one has 250ms lag and the other has 50ms lag then they seem to move at the same rate inside the game with the server accepting the big difference between them as lag and allowing it. if two people are moving in a 2d game like ultma online then the guy with 250ms stutters and stops a lot and its aggravating to them but the guy on 50ms lag moves around nice and smooth. so because of these things, teleporting and speedhacking are solved in a well made 2d game but not in 3d games. that's my understanding of it but the problem itself could be solved by the nodes giving mats or items instead while they work on a way to better stop teleporters or speedhackers whatever they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 So now using one of the signature attacks for mercs is an "exploit"? its just as much an exploit as using a crafting skill is. just because someone decides something is an exploit doesnt make it one..this morning an assassin walked right past the mobs on yavin to collect a node!! its like they didnt even see him! I cant do that so it must be an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezarkan Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Credit sellers lowering their prices is as likely to be a good thing as not. Means they can't sell at the higher prices. actually it means there is massive inflation which decreases the value of everything in the game that a person owns and it means that it hurts cartel coin sales because the credit buyers get much more bang for their buck buying from the exploiters rather than cartel coins many people buy cartel coins to legitimately get items to sell for credits on the auction house. exploiters using teleport hacks at nodes giving crazy amounts of credits increases spam in the game and steals cartel coin sales the game makers otherwise would have as people decide to just buy credits for 65 cents or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) actually it means there is massive inflation which decreases the value of everything in the game that a person owns and it means that it hurts cartel coin sales because the credit buyers get much more bang for their buck buying from the exploiters rather than cartel coins many people buy cartel coins to legitimately get items to sell for credits on the auction house. exploiters using teleport hacks at nodes giving crazy amounts of credits increases spam in the game and steals cartel coin sales the game makers otherwise would have as people decide to just buy credits for 65 cents or whatever Prices can also go down when there is less demand. Somehow this idea got started that prices are only influenced by the amount of currency in the overall pool... E: also, for those who aren't aware that it exists: Deflation. Edited February 27, 2016 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Prices can also go down when there is less demand. Somehow this idea got started that prices are only influenced by the amount of currency in the overall pool... That's what I was hinting at - that there is less demand because, by playing the game as-designed (weekly heroics) people are getting money, so they don't need to GO to the bots. And, the anecdotal experience above, the slicing nodes are not a really good way to make money fast, regardless of payout. Which doesn't surprise me that much, actually. I wonder if they monkeyed with things such that the nodes pay higher, butless often. The payout rate over time is still the same, but it's been made spikier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirandel Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Prices can also go down when there is less demand. Somehow this idea got started that prices are only influenced by the amount of currency in the overall pool... In theory they can, in practice (game related specifically) - never happen. Last time gold prices dropped like that when exploit with the crystals was abused. Anyway, these days with a very high demand for Unstable LS (which is insanely expansive) gold sellers are doing good for sure. Edited February 27, 2016 by Mirandel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 In theory they can, in practice (game related specifically) - never happen. Anyway, these days with a very high demand for Unstable LS (which is insanely expansive) gold sellers are doing good for sure. you wont mind posting the proof of this. your ingame metrics should convince us all that you didnt pull these out of someplace unpleasant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroDSMtuner Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Whine and complain all you want. This was obviously done on purpose, its not a bug. Why on earth you are complaining about it is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 The more people post freaked-out hyperbole about these "cheats" and "exploits" and "game-destroying" whatever... the less I give even a single damn. Every time Bioware listens to the overblown, melodramatic nonsense about this or that thing that's going to "ruin" SWTOR, we end up with a complete over-reaction that's far worse for 95% of the players than the actual problem ever was. For example? Nice how you accuse others of hyperbole and yet manage to put "Every time" in your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 every day the credit spammers lower their price. the currency is being devalued day by day. credit spammers prices are dropping so fast that soon there won't be much point to buying cartel coins since cartel coins will cost much more by comparison because of those nodes giving credits and huge amounts of it those bots are doing the following 24 hours a day teleport 14k, teleport 15k, teleport 15k teleport 13k, teleport 16k, teleport 12k, teleport 15k teleport 15k, teleport 15k, teleport 14k teleport 13k, teleport 16k, teleport 11k, teleport 9k teleport 15k, teleport 11k, teleport 15k teleport 14k, teleport 16k, teleport 15k, teleport 15k teleport 15k, teleport 15k, teleport 15k teleport 13k, teleport 16k, teleport 12k, teleport 15k teleport 15k, teleport 13k, teleport 15k teleport 12k, teleport 16k, teleport 14k, teleport 11k teleport 15k, teleport 15k, teleport 15k teleport 13k, teleport 16k, teleport 12k, teleport 15k plus there might be other exploits going on, why do they take so long to fix exploits??? Swings and round abouts in the sense that if noone bought cartel packs with CC there wouldn't be any of the CM items to buy with the credits. What will likely occur if this continues is due to the increased amounts of credits and possibly the decrease in purchase from the CM those items will start to soar in price. The losers in all of this will end up being those who don't buy CC or from gold sellers and have to try afford items in this inflated economy. It happened during the last exploit, it can easily happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Credit sellers lowering their prices is as likely to be a good thing as not. Means they can't sell at the higher prices. It means they become a far more attractive option for people who want to convert cash to credits than buying directly from the CM. It is in BW's best interest to nerf these nodes if they aren't going to do anything to stop botting ( and to be fair they can't ), sure a few people might get uppity about a nerf but greater good n all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Prices can also go down when there is less demand. Somehow this idea got started that prices are only influenced by the amount of currency in the overall pool... Prices will go up due to inflation not down. What does slicing nodes have to do with demand in the first place? Many things can affect pricing but at least endeavor to keep it related to the topic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 That's what I was hinting at - that there is less demand because, by playing the game as-designed (weekly heroics) people are getting money, so they don't need to GO to the bots. And, the anecdotal experience above, the slicing nodes are not a really good way to make money fast, regardless of payout. Which doesn't surprise me that much, actually. I wonder if they monkeyed with things such that the nodes pay higher, butless often. The payout rate over time is still the same, but it's been made spikier. When people start seeing easy under $1 a million vs doing heroics and they are happy to buy from gold selling sites then they will go to gold selling sites. I would wager there are a LOT of people who buy from gold sellers too - in fact you can find generate some initial statistics on this by looking at a certain player based gold selling site but I won't say more than that on it since doing so would no doubt break some rules. After all - if people weren't buying a lot of credits there wouldn't be a reason for gold sellers to collect so many credits to sell. They must be selling and people must be buying because they continue to push the sales, that's how I see it anyway. As to slicing nodes not being a great way to make money fast ... that's only when you speak of doing so manually and also it fails to take into consideration how hard it is to hit a node when there are tons of teleporting, stealth bots competing for the nodes. The issue here is these bots are hitting these nodes 24/7 generating credits into the economy every second of every day in ADDITION to the real players running heroics. See it might be "one or the other" for a player buy that's not the case for the bots, there is no tedium or boredom or "heroics are more fun" for them - they will just keep going and going and going and ... Left unchecked for months on end ... would be interesting to see how well the games economy holds up and how many defer to gold selling sites over the CM but we'll never be able to get those stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Always interesting to see 5 or 10 ignored messages in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Always interesting to see 5 or 10 ignored messages in a row. Nice math there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezarkan Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Always interesting to see 5 or 10 ignored messages in a row. i just got this from a search result and maybe it applies? "Search Results ignorance is bliss phrase of ignorance proverb 1. if you do not know about something, you do not worry about it." by the way, the developers should understand that many who are using this exploit are going to be on the forums defending it. Edited February 28, 2016 by Mezarkan added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 by the way, the developers should understand that many who are using this exploit are going to be on the forums defending it. I doubt that bot-running gold-spammers are going to be posting to the forums about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleurdelis Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 [quote=Mezarkan;8838237 by the way, the developers should understand that many who are using this exploit are going to be on the forums defending it. Its not an exploit. If you want to make some real credits run the H2's in a group of 4...tons of money to be made and drops to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezarkan Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 teleporting from slicing node to slicing node is definitely an exploit the high level of credits on an easily exploitable item is extremely poor game design. the combination = the crash of the value of credits. get ready to see the game suffer from lack of cartel coin sales as exploiters take away tons of sales as the spammers drop their prices due to the flood of credits they get from this exploit. even without the teleporting this must have been doing huge damage to the economy. this activity should give items and resources and not credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshiel Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I'm not complaining xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunav Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Slicing is actually back to what it's supposed to be, what it was at launch - it's actually profitable. I find running around competing over nodes a horrible waste of time and tedious, but if people want to do so, let them. Nothing is "broken". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Prices will go up due to inflation not down. What does slicing nodes have to do with demand in the first place? Many things can affect pricing but at least endeavor to keep it related to the topic here. go back and actually read the thread. he was talking about the prices gold sellers charge per million, not the prices of overdone ultra rare items on the gtn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Always interesting to see 5 or 10 ignored messages in a row. he is doing his usual attacks to keep his credit farming business intact, just like every time there is a way for the non gtn whales to make headway. its almost like it is a real money business for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 teleporting from slicing node to slicing node is definitely an exploit the high level of credits on an easily exploitable item is extremely poor game design. the combination = the crash of the value of credits. get ready to see the game suffer from lack of cartel coin sales as exploiters take away tons of sales as the spammers drop their prices due to the flood of credits they get from this exploit. even without the teleporting this must have been doing huge damage to the economy. this activity should give items and resources and not credits. map hacks happen in wz's also. the devs have the ability to stop them. if they choose to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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