Standard rotation question [Deception]

[Argonie]

Hey guys.

As far as i have seen a good standard rota is:

 

Spike from stealth > Recklessness> VoltSlash> Maul > Discharge > Ball Lightning

 

The rest is pretty situational i guess right? or did i forget something important.

 

Any tips from your side?

 

Ty

Edited February 18, 2016 by Argonie

[LudhaninRolgge]

Hey guys.

As far as i have seen a good standard rota is:

 

Spike from stealth > Recklessness> VoltSlash> Maul > Discharge > Ball Lightning

 

The rest is pretty situational i guess right? or did i forget something important.

 

Any tips from your side?

 

Ty

 

For pvp yes, for pve don't do that.

[Argonie]

For pvp yes, for pve don't do that.

 

Yea i play pvp mostly. Forgot to mention tx

[MasterFeign]

I tend to have better results with:

 

recklessness (in stealth) > spike > maul (it procs on spike) > force shroud > discharge > phantom stride > discharge > DCDs (including low slash or deflection for 6 second immunity, among others) or > voltaic slash > voltaic slash > ball lightning > assassinate

[ruling]

Imo that's wrong. I've play a sin from beta I'm my experience for an open its like this.. From stealth Pop recklessness, discharge, phantom stride , discharge, lightning ball, x2 VS, low slash, maul. For there if they are not dead Pop force cloak, discharge and lightning ball again on proc then assassinate. Some people use reckless and open with spike but that's a mistake imo it uses one of your 3 stacks and doesn't hit as hard as discharge and it's not internal damage like discharge is. Hope that helps. Seneca

[ruling]

Imo that's wrong. I've play a sin from beta I'm my experience for an open its like this.. From stealth Pop recklessness, discharge, phantom stride , discharge, lightning ball, x2 VS, low slash, maul. For there if they are not dead Pop force cloak, discharge and lightning ball again on proc then assassinate. Some people use reckless and open with spike but that's a mistake imo it uses one of your 3 stacks and doesn't hit as hard as discharge and it's not internal damage like discharge is. Hope that helps. Seneca

[helpmewin]

There is no standart open rotation on deception. All depends on class/spec and player, its a pug or decent, what DCD he used, u need to cap node or kill him, its a duel or mid fight e.t.c. All will come with experience. Just play for fun and don't think about that. Deception became much easier and more forgivable on mistakes with the last changes. Edited February 21, 2016 by helpmewin

[Aravail]

helpmewin is right in that your opener will likely vary if your opponent has cooldowns active (for example, you don't want to open with Discharge on a shadow that has Resilience going, or Spike a Gunslinger with Hunker Down), but my typical opener is most similar to ruling's: Spike > Recklessness > Discharge > Shadow Stride > Discharge > Voltaic Slash > Maul > Ball Lightning. This rotation ensures that (1) you don't waste a Recklessness charge on Spike, which is for some reason a Force attack, (2) you use VS before Maul so you get the auto-crit from your set bonus, and (3) you don't waste charges of Static Charge by using melee attacks while you already have three stacks. Of those moves, every one but spike/vs (your lowest damage ones) will be virtual auto-crits, and having most of them hitting during your relic windows can do a decent chunk of damage. If your opponent is low, you can follow it up with Assassinate or, depending on the situation, even use Force Cloak to reset your cooldowns, though I prefer to use cloak defensively in PvP.

[PlagaNerezza]

helpmewin is right in that your opener will likely vary if your opponent has cooldowns active (for example, you don't want to open with Discharge on a shadow that has Resilience going, or Spike a Gunslinger with Hunker Down), but my typical opener is most similar to ruling's: Spike > Recklessness > Discharge > Shadow Stride > Discharge > Voltaic Slash > Maul > Ball Lightning. This rotation ensures that (1) you don't waste a Recklessness charge on Spike, which is for some reason a Force attack, (2) you use VS before Maul so you get the auto-crit from your set bonus, and (3) you don't waste charges of Static Charge by using melee attacks while you already have three stacks. Of those moves, every one but spike/vs (your lowest damage ones) will be virtual auto-crits, and having most of them hitting during your relic windows can do a decent chunk of damage. If your opponent is low, you can follow it up with Assassinate or, depending on the situation, even use Force Cloak to reset your cooldowns, though I prefer to use cloak defensively in PvP.

 

Maul Sunders the target for a 20% AR reduction.

 

Why not spike > recklessness. > Maul. > Discharge > PS > Discharge > VS > Low Slash > Maul > BL

 

Low slash should auto proc and be on crit on the second maul.

[Aelanis]

Maul Sunders the target for a 20% AR reduction.

 

Why not spike > recklessness. > Maul. > Discharge > PS > Discharge > VS > Low Slash > Maul > BL

 

Low slash should auto proc and be on crit on the second maul.

 

Because +40% damage on Maul under a double relic window is worth more than ~+7% damage on VS and Low Slash during the same window. Not to mention you're also missing +2% damage on your opener by not using Ball Lightning in your opener. In addition to this, you can't use Maul a second time when you try to: there's no more Duplicity trigger off the rate limit on Low Slash or Spike. Using Low Slash like that also wastes 2.5 seconds on the mezz by immediately hitting the with Maul (ignoring the fact that that doesn't even work).

[Argonie]

See the discrepancies? Use Maul after VS. Use it befirhand. Dont open with Spike. Open with Spike. Oh boy. 10 differential opinion

[Aelanis]

See the discrepancies? Use Maul after VS. Use it befirhand. Dont open with Spike. Open with Spike. Oh boy. 10 differential opinion

 

I mean, people can have their opinions about a fact, but if they really have an opinion about it, rather than proving they're right, they're wrong. What I'm saying does more damage isn't opinion: it's fact.

[MasterFeign]

It also depends on how you're geared and who you're fighting against. Like my above rotation, has some great results, and I adapt and change it up as needed, depending on the enemy.

[sir_valor]

If its 1v1 ill open with spike then immediately hit maul cause its proc'ed then vltic slach with ball lighting when its proc ed while low slashing them til three discharges then use it then recklessness then phantrom stried for threee straight then manage with stuns til next discharge

[Neoforcer]

First there so much wrong with a lot of these rotations... First i want you to go to a test dummy hit recklessness then spike from stealth notice you just ate 1 stack of recklessness on a 3k hit to only hit for 4500 max gg you killed the burst rotation from stealth by 1 stack of recklessness. Some of you have posted a good rotation but telling people to hit recklessness before spike sigh bad bad. What ever rotation you choose start with spike then recklessness please you will increase your dps. Chaining discharge ball lightning phantom stride discharge on recklessness is again more dps. As recklessness is only consumed and used by force or yellow damage on a sin. This is no difference then hitting recklessness on force slow no one would ever do that but guess what it also consumes a stack of recklessness. Hope this helps Edited March 1, 2016 by Neoforcer

[Iona_Var]

Depending on who I'm facing, I'll cc, hard cast crd, recklessness, discharge, vs, maul, stride, discharge and then after that it's situational. But I haven't played deception since it got nerfed and tend to favor darkness now. Note that the above statement is only for a 1v1. If it's more than one opponent, then I'll usually open with spike. Edited March 4, 2016 by Iona_Var

[Kazz_Devlin]

Because +40% damage on Maul under a double relic window is worth more than ~+7% damage on VS and Low Slash during the same window. Not to mention you're also missing +2% damage on your opener by not using Ball Lightning in your opener. In addition to this, you can't use Maul a second time when you try to: there's no more Duplicity trigger off the rate limit on Low Slash or Spike. Using Low Slash like that also wastes 2.5 seconds on the mezz by immediately hitting the with Maul (ignoring the fact that that doesn't even work).

 

So you'd rather waste the proc'd maul ?

I am not sure I get that. I usually spike|maul (because its proc'd) then recklessness|discharge etc etc.

[Aelanis]

So you'd rather waste the proc'd maul ?

I am not sure I get that. I usually spike|maul (because its proc'd) then recklessness|discharge etc etc.

 

You don't waste it. How is holding it for a few seconds wasting it?

 

Duplicity triggers off of any damaging ability you use, can only trigger once every 10 seconds (10.5 divided by 1 + alacrity percentage in reality), and lasts long enough to be able to be replaced by the next Duplicity trigger if you don't use Maul in time. If you hold the Duplicity buff for 9 seconds (6 abilities) before using Maul (which is basically fitting in all of your possible other damaging moves, other than Assassinate, in before it plus another stun), you still get to use Maul under Duplicity, and your next move after Maul triggers Duplicity again, and there's no wasted Mauls.

[Kazz_Devlin]

You don't waste it. How is holding it for a few seconds wasting it?

 

Duplicity triggers off of any damaging ability you use, can only trigger once every 10 seconds (10.5 divided by 1 + alacrity percentage in reality), and lasts long enough to be able to be replaced by the next Duplicity trigger if you don't use Maul in time. If you hold the Duplicity buff for 9 seconds (6 abilities) before using Maul (which is basically fitting in all of your possible other damaging moves, other than Assassinate, in before it plus another stun), you still get to use Maul under Duplicity, and your next move after Maul triggers Duplicity again, and there's no wasted Mauls.

 

I don't see why waiting is necessary sort of moot point whether at beginning of rotation or end out come is the same.

So I : Spike|Maul|Recklessness|Discharge|Phantom Stride|VS|ball|Assassinate

you: Spike|Recklessness|Discharge|Phantom Stride|VS|Ball|Assassinate|Maul

Edited March 21, 2016 by Kazz_Devlin

[Kazz_Devlin]

helpmewin is right in that your opener will likely vary if your opponent has cooldowns active (for example, you don't want to open with Discharge on a shadow that has Resilience going, or Spike a Gunslinger with Hunker Down), but my typical opener is most similar to ruling's: Spike > Recklessness > Discharge > Shadow Stride > Discharge > Voltaic Slash > Maul > Ball Lightning. This rotation ensures that (1) you don't waste a Recklessness charge on Spike, which is for some reason a Force attack, (2) you use VS before Maul so you get the auto-crit from your set bonus, and (3) you don't waste charges of Static Charge by using melee attacks while you already have three stacks. Of those moves, every one but spike/vs (your lowest damage ones) will be virtual auto-crits, and having most of them hitting during your relic windows can do a decent chunk of damage. If your opponent is low, you can follow it up with Assassinate or, depending on the situation, even use Force Cloak to reset your cooldowns, though I prefer to use cloak defensively in PvP.

 

I use Spike|Maul|Recklessness|Discharge|Phantom Stride|Discharge| Voltaic slash once if no proc on ball lightning Voltaic slash|Ball Lightning| Assassinate (instead of maul because usually almost dead by this point.

[Aelanis]

I don't see why waiting is necessary sort of moot point whether at beginning of rotation or end out come is the same.

So I : Spike|Maul|Recklessness|Discharge|Phantom Stride|VS|ball|Assassinate

you: Spike|Recklessness|Discharge|Phantom Stride|VS|Ball|Assassinate|Maul

 

Except it's not. Maybe it wouldn't matter if relic procs didn't exist, but they do. The damage boost is huge when combined with an autocrit (which is basically another 40% more damage, multiplying everything beyond your surge), and you're losing out on it. There's nothing else to it.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Except it's not. Maybe it wouldn't matter if relic procs didn't exist, but they do. The damage boost is huge when combined with an autocrit (which is basically another 40% more damage, multiplying everything beyond your surge), and you're losing out on it. There's nothing else to it.

 

not seeing how i am missing on it? when I get a proc I use it

[Kazz_Devlin]

I mean, people can have their opinions about a fact, but if they really have an opinion about it, rather than proving they're right, they're wrong. What I'm saying does more damage isn't opinion: it's fact.

 

were's the proof did you post something and I miss it?

[Aelanis]

were's the proof did you post something and I miss it?

 

Go do the math yourself. Figure out how hard your Maul hits for with and without relic procs. Figure out how much of a percentage boost your auto-crit is. Then you can see just how much more damage you do by opening correctly. I'm not going to hold your hand through it, it's pretty easy to do.

[PlagaNerezza]

Go do the math yourself. Figure out how hard your Maul hits for with and without relic procs. Figure out how much of a percentage boost your auto-crit is. Then you can see just how much more damage you do by opening correctly. I'm not going to hold your hand through it, it's pretty easy to do.

 

Everything hits harder with a proc'd relic.

 

In PVE you might try and time maul with proc's if you can. What Aelanis is stating is that you can almost certainly instant charge/crit discharge. The same isn't true for maul. So you might try saving maul for when at least 1 relic is procc'd. Nothing wrong with that sound advice.

 

I'd argue in pvp you use it whenever you can procc'd relic or not. Its positional. The timing issue can be so screwy. I'd say a rotation that goes spike/maul is normal and as productive at DPSing pvp and nothing says that spike cannot proc a relic. Star Parse your PVP. You'll know what works better.

 

I think PVP rotations are more fluid and depend heavily on the class you are fighting.