For pair healing, which is better: two sages or one sage and one scoundrel/commando?

[Volxen]

I am asking this primarily in regards to 8 vs 8, not 4 vs 4. My girlfriend always plays a healing sage in warzones, and we frequently like to heal together. I have all three healers myself, but I am just wondering if the team already has one sage healer, what is the best healing class for the second healer to be? Another sage, or a scoundrel or commando?

 

In case anyone responding only plays on the Empire side:

 

sage = sorcerer

scoundrel = operative

commando = mercenary

[MrGoldsilver]

Probably a sage, but a scoundrel healer can work also if they are good, since it has superior aoe heals.

 

But not a commando, anything but a commando

[Lhancelot]

2 sages are best. Bubble, phasewalk, most complete set of heals, overperforming in all facets of pvp... no reason to not go with 2 sages.

[Jimvinny]

Two sages means you both can't use force armor. Scoundrels are very strong on 3+ targets, so roll your scoundrel.

[Fellow-Canadian]

No matter what the question is Sage healer is the answer.

[ebbehhm]

No matter what the question is Sage healer is the answer.

 

^^

Out heal everything, 1v1 everything, face tank everything, what else can you ask for...

[NikSunrider]

Depends on how your team is playing.

 

If you are fighting in two different places on the map, then two sages are better.

 

If you are generally localized in one furball, then a Scoundrel healer is a really good support to your sage- sage burst heals, scoundrel tops everyone up with HOT.

[Qwurdilu]

I am asking this primarily in regards to 8 vs 8, not 4 vs 4. My girlfriend always plays a healing sage in warzones, and we frequently like to heal together. I have all three healers myself, but I am just wondering if the team already has one sage healer, what is the best healing class for the second healer to be? Another sage, or a scoundrel or commando?

 

In case anyone responding only plays on the Empire side:

 

sage = sorcerer

scoundrel = operative

commando = mercenary

 

Better go tank or supporting dps, because two healer of any kind is overkill, especially in current meta in which its very likely youll get another two healer in your team.

[Wimbleton]

I've always liked Sage/Scoundrel. People are whining about sage/sorc healers right now and there are a few issues (roaming mend, mostly), but Op/Scoun has tremendous HPS potenatial.

 

The two types of healing go well together. Sage can put alot of HP on a single target fairly quickly and the Scoun cannot. Scoundrel can sustain HoT and sustain aoe healing, sage cannot.

 

Effectively the OP will normalize the life bars and make the spikes easier for the Sage to counter. Op/Scoun healing is also much less vulnerable to CC (they have hots out, get CCd, hots keep going) so with double sage you can run a greater risk of one being CCd and the other being outdamaged.

 

Then you have other non-HPS related characteristics and abilities that work better in non-pairs as well.

[yellow_]

Op/Scoun healing is also much less vulnerable to CC (they have hots out, get CCd, hots keep going) so with double sage you can run a greater risk of one being CCd and the other being outdamaged.

 

I see this meme that medic and sawbones are less vulnerable to CC than other healing specs posted fairly often and I really don't buy it.

 

The fact you still have dinky heals ticking while waiting out a mezz is beside the point. A given amount of time spent not activating heals is going to produce a similar loss in HPS for each spec; meanwhile, medic and sawbones are, by far, the least well equipped to deal with the situation you often find yourself in after sitting out a mezz or two.

 

Anyone who has tried to play these specs in ranked will be all too familiar with this scenario: You're out of the mezz finally and one or more of your teammates are dangerously close to dying. On top of that, if you're fortunate, your probes are in danger of falling off just about everyone (if you're not fortunate they already have and you are hosed). Very often you have two options that are mutually exclusive to a large degree: you can go for your mediocre "burst" options in order to maximize the chances of your dangerously low teammates not dying right now or prioritize keeping your HOTs up to keep your HPS up (and therefore avoid everyone dying 10 seconds from now) at the risk of people dying right now. The former option isn't even reliable at its intended goal because your "burst" options are either bad, easily interrupted, or both. Medic and Sawbones are EXCEPTIONALLY vulnerable to CC.

 

There is LITERALLY no analogous situation for corruption and seer -- the dilemma of saving someone at the cost of long term HPS is nearly non-existent. You likely come out of mezz with at least a couple of a few good options to save low players that also do not ruin your long term HPS. Barrier, double bounce roaming mend, innervate, and even *********** dark heal spam can save someone from dying. Recklessness and polarity shift (especially if you're white barred) are just the icing on the cake.

Edited February 16, 2016 by yellow_

[Surbatu]

My girlfriend always plays a healing sage in warzones, and we frequently like to heal together.

 

I WILL FIND YOU AND I WILL *** YOU :mon_evil:

 

 

 

 

 

[Lhancelot]

I see this meme that medic and sawbones are less vulnerable to CC than other healing specs posted fairly often and I really don't buy it.

 

The fact you still have dinky heals ticking while waiting out a mezz is beside the point. A given amount of time spent not activating heals is going to produce a similar loss in HPS for each spec; meanwhile, medic and sawbones are, by far, the least well equipped to deal with the situation you often find yourself in after sitting out a mezz or two.

 

Anyone who has tried to play these specs in ranked will be all too familiar with this scenario: You're out of the mezz finally and one or more of your teammates are dangerously close to dying. On top of that, if you're fortunate, your probes are in danger of falling off just about everyone (if you're not fortunate they already have and you are hosed). Very often you have two options that are mutually exclusive to a large degree: you can go for your mediocre "burst" options in order to maximize the chances of your dangerously low teammates not dying right now or prioritize keeping your HOTs up to keep your HPS up (and therefore avoid everyone dying 10 seconds from now) at the risk of people dying right now. The former option isn't even reliable at its intended goal because your "burst" options are either bad, easily interrupted, or both. Medic and Sawbones are EXCEPTIONALLY vulnerable to CC.

 

There is LITERALLY no analogous situation for corruption and seer -- the dilemma of saving someone at the cost of long term HPS is nearly non-existent. You likely come out of mezz with at least a couple of a few good options to save low players that also do not ruin your long term HPS. Barrier, double bounce roaming mend, innervate, and even *********** dark heal spam can save someone from dying. Recklessness and polarity shift (especially if you're white barred) are just the icing on the cake.

 

Exactly all of this, sorc/sage can recover and burst heal after a stun easier than any healing class. They also can break and avoid stuns, roots etc., far easier than the other two healers.

 

Sorcs are not easy to lock down. This is not 2.0. In 4.0, sorc healers are by far better at EVERYTHING than the other two healers, except when your team bunches up, and you are on an ops and able to freely cast your nice powerful AE channeled heal.

 

Sure, it's great. Thing is that's the only situation where an ops is better than a sorc healer, and that's a highly situational example.

 

As for only one sorc being able to bubble people, so what? You can overlap all the other heals np. Also, if your partner failed to throw a bubble on someone, you can quickly do it yourself.

 

Two sorcs healing together are nearly impossible to beat if played well. You don't even need a tank to mitigate damage, the healing is so powerful in an 8v8 setup (regs).

[AlrikFassbauer]

To sum everything up :

 

Don't play any other class that Sage Sorc Healer.

[mwissie]

sages are kings of healers atm

but I personally don't like it when there's other sage healers in my group, they get in my way

 

all 3 healers work fine; it all depends on what you're best at, and what combination you find most enjoyable

 

I personally HATE 2 sages, but that's probably the most effective healing combo, else I'd go with a commando probably

[Wimbleton]

Anyone who has tried to play these specs in ranked .

 

There's the problem, sweetpea. You took what I wrote out of context.

 

Since you obviously missed the context, let me help you. Oh fck, it was the first GD line of the thread:

 

I am asking this primarily in regards to 8 vs 8, not 4 vs 4.

 

Obviously Ops are going to lose HPS when CCd, incredible insight there. My point was that, when paired with burst, the Op's main focus is keeping hots up on a few targets - the targets under current focus, AOEing that target and nearby targets etc. So when they get CCd, their contribution to the job they need to be doing continues. Yeah, they might be dropping some HPs when Bob over there at 94% health has his hot drop off, but the 2-3 guys taking the most dmg will likely have their hots still rolling.

 

Sorc/Sage is hands-down the best healers right now, I don't think anyone would argue that. But warzones give you a different picture than 4s. Focus fire gets widely minimized and spread damage is very common, the need for more superior AOE heal presence rises. Ops have that.

 

I can theorycraft a situation where either Sorc/Sorc or Sorc/Op would be better, but if you'll read what I wrote, you'd see that I'm just offering up an idea of total contribution to the successful win of an 8v8. It's not all about HPS and having both a Sorc and an Op that work well together can be extremely powerful, due in part to the unique healing contrubtion that they both make, but also to the auxillary contributions that can be made by the other abilities both classes possess.

 

I have absolutely no problem healing an entire 8v8 by myself, solo, as a Sorc/Sage, and never a problem when there are two competent healers of any kind, even Merc/Mando.... so clearly it's not JUST about HPS.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Wimbleton

[yellow_]

There's the problem, sweetpea. You took what I wrote out of context..

 

I was not weighing in on the pair healing discussion. I made it as clear as I know how that I was specifically responding to the following:

 

Op/Scoun healing is also much less vulnerable to CC (they have hots out, get CCd, hots keep going) so with double sage you can run a greater risk of one being CCd and the other being outdamaged.

 

Medic and Sawbones are not "much less vulnerable" to CC -- they are much more vulnerable to it. The only reason I specifically brought up ranked is because this fact about those specs is at its most obvious in that environment. It is still 100% the case in regs too. This weakness of the specs hurts less in regs for obvious reasons but that doesn't make it any less true.

 

I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't run an operative healer in the pair (although, when push comes to shove, I probably would say that because sorcs are clearly better). I'm saying you shouldn't run one over double sorc healers out of a fear of CC. Double sorc healer is the least vulnerable to CC pair available.

 

tl;dr all I'm doing here is dispelling the myth that Medic and Sawbones are less vulnerable to CC

Edited February 17, 2016 by yellow_

[Wimbleton]

 

tl;dr all I'm doing here is dispelling the myth that Medic and Sawbones are less vulnerable to CC

 

Actually, you are taking what I said outside of its context, in its context my words meant "The effectiveness of an OP and doing their job when paired with a sorc (hotting focus targets, AOEing focus areas) is less impacted by time spent inside of a CC than are sorcs at doing their job (providing burst healing)."

 

Then you put it into your assumptive context which is a blanket assertion that OPs are more/less vulnerable to CC in general, and especially as pertains to ranked play per abovementioned anecdotal eyebleeder.

 

I'm not making that assertion, so you can requote me and say that I am, but it doesnt change the facts. Out of context, bad, reapplied with assumptions to another/a general context, bad.

 

And just so you know where I stand on the off-topic context of which you keep effing going back to:

I've been a proponent of the fact that Ops are in dire need of (a)interrupt protection and a (b)hot finisher/backloaded burst ability.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Wimbleton

[yellow_]

you can pretend your claim that medic/sawbones is less vulnerable to CC than other healing specs was couched in whatever special context you like after the fact -- it doesn't change anything. there is literally no context that will suddenly make it true because it's a consequence of how the spec works Edited February 17, 2016 by yellow_

[Lhancelot]

you can pretend your claim that medic/sawbones is less vulnerable to CC than other healing specs was couched in whatever special context you like after the fact -- it doesn't change anything. there is literally no context that will suddenly make it true because it's a consequence of how the spec works

 

^^^ I like it.

 

It's true though, ops/scoundrel healers actually are easier to shut down than sage/sorc healers. All it takes are well timed stuns/roots etc., and the ops is ****ed.

 

Sorc healers can work around well timed stuns or roots with powerful escapes and they also have an easier time playing catchup with heals if someone gets low.

 

If a team gets low in health, and the ops healer needs to save someone with some burst healing BUT has some dps that is really pressuring them, that teammate in need of a burst heal is going to die and there's simply nothing that ops can do about it.

 

That's why I hate my ops healer. I hate feeling powerless watching someone die and not being able to give them a chance to live with some kind of burst heal.

[kissingaiur]

There's the problem, sweetpea. You took what I wrote out of context.

 

Since you obviously missed the context, let me help you. Oh fck, it was the first GD line of the thread:

 

 

 

Obviously Ops are going to lose HPS when CCd, incredible insight there. My point was that, when paired with burst, the Op's main focus is keeping hots up on a few targets - the targets under current focus, AOEing that target and nearby targets etc. So when they get CCd, their contribution to the job they need to be doing continues. Yeah, they might be dropping some HPs when Bob over there at 94% health has his hot drop off, but the 2-3 guys taking the most dmg will likely have their hots still rolling.

 

Sorc/Sage is hands-down the best healers right now, I don't think anyone would argue that. But warzones give you a different picture than 4s. Focus fire gets widely minimized and spread damage is very common, the need for more superior AOE heal presence rises. Ops have that.

 

I can theorycraft a situation where either Sorc/Sorc or Sorc/Op would be better, but if you'll read what I wrote, you'd see that I'm just offering up an idea of total contribution to the successful win of an 8v8. It's not all about HPS and having both a Sorc and an Op that work well together can be extremely powerful, due in part to the unique healing contrubtion that they both make, but also to the auxillary contributions that can be made by the other abilities both classes possess.

 

I have absolutely no problem healing an entire 8v8 by myself, solo, as a Sorc/Sage, and never a problem when there are two competent healers of any kind, even Merc/Mando.... so clearly it's not JUST about HPS.

 

You are just wrong. What you are refering to is Operatives/Scoundrels pre-3.0 where our healing meant something out of a stun. Now that our healing has been nerfed every patch since then, burst healing options are limited out of a stun and we still have to deal with the GCDs restacking if you **** up.

 

Right now the only situation that Operatives/Scoundrels are viable in a team ranked (over a Sorc) is against cleave because they are slightly better at healing massive cleave. This is because if they are being cleaved they aren't being mezed, therefore their HoTs won't fall off. In any other situation Sorcs/Sages are by far better because of their heal adaptability and survivability; both their burst/AoE is great. As someone who played team ranked being double mezed with no break then being triple interrupted, you can feel how weak the class really is. Sorcs/Sages don't have to deal with that kind of punishment and are severely less forgiving.

 

This isn't saying Operatives/Scoundrels are bad, they are just not as good as Sorcs/Sages in 80% of situations in the current burst meta. This is because our healing revolves around HoTs which can account for 40% of our overall healing in a warzone. If they drop off you are forced to not focus on a 'burst heals' but reHoTing everyone which takes 8 GCDs... 8. HoTs really need a buff because the time you spend reHoTing just because you got CCed or Mezed at the wrong time destroys your HPS.

[FlarvawkusTDH]

I always have more trouble against two sages

[aristrokratie]

You are just wrong. What you are refering to is Operatives/Scoundrels pre-3.0 where our healing meant something out of a stun. Now that our healing has been nerfed every patch since then, burst healing options are limited out of a stun and we still have to deal with the GCDs restacking if you **** up.

 

Right now the only situation that Operatives/Scoundrels are viable in a team ranked (over a Sorc) is against cleave because they are slightly better at healing massive cleave. This is because if they are being cleaved they aren't being mezed, therefore their HoTs won't fall off. In any other situation Sorcs/Sages are by far better because of their heal adaptability and survivability; both their burst/AoE is great. As someone who played team ranked being double mezed with no break then being triple interrupted, you can feel how weak the class really is. Sorcs/Sages don't have to deal with that kind of punishment and are severely less forgiving.

 

This isn't saying Operatives/Scoundrels are bad, they are just not as good as Sorcs/Sages in 80% of situations in the current burst meta. This is because our healing revolves around HoTs which can account for 40% of our overall healing in a warzone. If they drop off you are forced to not focus on a 'burst heals' but reHoTing everyone which takes 8 GCDs... 8. HoTs really need a buff because the time you spend reHoTing just because you got CCed or Mezed at the wrong time destroys your HPS.

 

They're not strong enough in the current meta.

Either all burstdamage has to be nerfed (very unlikely, maras still cry they're weak, pt as the all present fotm), as well as carbonize or ops have to be buffed (stronger hots, burstheals through surgical rather than injection) for them to be balanced.

Edited February 17, 2016 by aristrokratie

[Master-Nala]

Theoretically, Scoundrels have better sustained healing. In practice not so much since it requires constant application of medpacks. Two Sages are better because they have much better burst and their 2 AoE heals are functionally instants.

[aristrokratie]

Theoretically, Scoundrels have better sustained healing. In practice not so much since it requires constant application of medpacks. Two Sages are better because they have much better burst and their 2 AoE heals are functionally instants.

 

And because koltowaves is useless as **** in pvp and is intended to be our main source of aoe healing (which should be hots btw but pveers struggle to keep them up and like an aoechannel more)

[turboooo]

Sage / Sorc you don't even have to move not a thing can kill you. Just stand there and out heals anything they throw at you. > really it gets boring after a while nothing can kill you.