Poor Sportsmanship running rampant in Ops and PvP

[-PassingStar-]

Granted, I'm relatively new to MMO's, but I've notice a rather nasty trend when it comes to the behavior of certain players within PvP WarZones and Ops. For them the slightest mistake, by anyone, warrants a nasty ( profanity laden ) whisper or group wide remark that includes anything from questioning ones sexual orientation, a racial slur, and/or their lack of genitalia. - no it's not funny, and if you think it is then you're one of the ones I'm talking about.

 

As a new'ish player I can honestly tell you that these kinds of people are what drive the population down. People don't come here to be mistreated by individuals that probably wouldn't have the courage to say anything to anyone face to face. I firmly believe, after discussing this with literally hundreds of SWTOR players, the number one reason they don't participate in Ops or PvP, is because they don't want to deal with unwarranted and often cruel criticism. Basically, they're afraid to play end-game content because a vocal minority of MMO misfits have come to the conclusion that viciously berating people for mistakes is the norm. It isn't. Its uncalled for and rude.

 

Yes, PvP and Ops can be very competitive, and that can generate a lot of aggressive behavior, but there is no reason to attack someone because they're...

 

• New to the game.

• Inexperienced with the content

• Don't fully understand how the role they've chosen is supposed to be played. ( rotation, gearing )

 

Instead of attacking these people wouldn't it be more beneficial to offer advise? Perhaps they've never had the chance to do a certain Ops before, or are trying PvP for the first time.

 

I've completed every Op in the game from SM to HM, most NiM, and have 100 valor, but I've grown tried of inexperienced players being abused just because they're "not good enough."

 

C'mon, give these people a break. This game needs new players, and treating them like crap isn't going to compel them to stay.

 

Just my two cents.

[Unperson]

Even though I agree, making yet another post about it isn't going to change anything. Feel free to vent I guess, but the effort would be better spent actually coaching a newbie in-game. It's also infinitely more rewarding.

 

Just my $0.02

[-PassingStar-]

coaching a newbie in-game. It's also infinitely more rewarding.

Oh, I do. Last night I got two new'ish people to join a SM Op. They did fine. We wiped a few times, but when we finally finished they felt pretty good, and more confident about joining another group. They had fun, and that's the most important thing; and they learned from the experience.

 

They both had tried Ops in the past but didn't perform very well, but instead of getting advise on how to improve they were told to never join GF again because they were "worthless" players.

 

What kind of low-brow trog calls another person worthless? -and gamers are baffled as to why non-gamers hold them in such low esteem.

[JouerTue]

the new players are worse now, since the game took the ''tactical'' path, but bads has been always around.

personally i tend to stay silent or to help them get an idea of where to look, what to do to improve.

i don't always bother if it's a FP or a pug i'm not leading, i've seen too many instances go disband in the years to become afraid..when i don't stay silent is if i see any kind of harrassment or someone overreacting, because i've the social and ingame skills to prove my point. a lot of experienced players just leave when the situation is hopeless, not many rage at newbies in my experience, and they mostly are bads themselves. i always appreciate when the group stays and there is some in-pug progress, the new guys always are happy in the end when it goes that way.

pvp is another field, you've to have your own bones..

[TX_Angel]

There are several things going on here.

 

First, yes, people do behave in the game in a way that they would not do so in real life. No real names are attached to our game names and there is no penalty for being a jerk. So some people behave in the game in a way that is simply not acceptable in real life. Only a "real names" policy would really do anything about this. But that has other issues.

 

Second, Bioware is at fault for not providing tools to help people better find "like minded players". There are times I'm in the mood to help newbies, and times I simply want to stomp something. The longer I play a game, the more often I find it is the latter rather than the former.

 

Third, the game has promoted lvl 65s who don't know what they are doing. Tonight, Rav GF popped, it appeared at first glance to be a decent group. Lots of 208/216 gear with a reasonable selection of augments (I was main tank in 216/220 ops token gear augmented). Great, this should be easy enough. Only one person spoke up about being "new". Wiped on first boss, lord the DPS sucked. The performance was not at all reflective of their gear.

 

The new 4.0 leveling progression causes people to show up who end up with enough comms to get gear, but not know what to do with it. A few FP and heroics and they get enough blue crystals for a 208/216 mix. Yet they can't play their class worth a damm. They get away with it in the rest of the game because of stupid easy mode and companions that are better than we are. Then they hit ops and just die.

 

---

 

Solution: Allow GF to have a toggle, "only group with people who have completed the content before". I suspect you'll get 2 things. First, you'll get more "old hands" actually using GF. Second, you'll give people a reason to join a guild or find a friendly group to take them through the op the first time.

[-PassingStar-]

Solution: Allow GF to have a toggle, "only group with people who have completed the content before". I suspect you'll get 2 things. First, you'll get more "old hands" actually using GF. Second, you'll give people a reason to join a guild or find a friendly group to take them through the op the first time.

This is not a solution, it's merely a band aid. Strong, skilled, veteran players can, and often do carry lesser players to the Final Boss "achievement." So, even if you put a toggle for "have completed op before" in GF you're not necessarily going to be grouped with people who actually know the mechanics, or even their role.

 

However, joining a "good" guild is probably the best suggestion. That's how I made if through my first ops.

 

I must add that making a "have completed before" toggle would most likely further divide an already fractured player base. We already have people demanding "achievements" for HM ops. The last thing this population needs is a veiled way of keeping inexperienced players from participating in content that they're paying to play.

 

Furthermore, if you find yourself lashing out at players, for any reason other than being abused yourself, then I think you need to step back and take a break from the game. Its just a game. It DOESN'T give anyone license to attack or abuse others. You may rationalize to your hearts content, but there is a right way to treat people and a wrong way. - More and more I'm seeing the latter.

[JouerTue]

There are several things going on here.

 

First, yes, people do behave in the game in a way that they would not do so in real life. No real names are attached to our game names and there is no penalty for being a jerk. So some people behave in the game in a way that is simply not acceptable in real life. Only a "real names" policy would really do anything about this. But that has other issues.

 

Second, Bioware is at fault for not providing tools to help people better find "like minded players". There are times I'm in the mood to help newbies, and times I simply want to stomp something. The longer I play a game, the more often I find it is the latter rather than the former.

 

Third, the game has promoted lvl 65s who don't know what they are doing. Tonight, Rav GF popped, it appeared at first glance to be a decent group. Lots of 208/216 gear with a reasonable selection of augments (I was main tank in 216/220 ops token gear augmented). Great, this should be easy enough. Only one person spoke up about being "new". Wiped on first boss, lord the DPS sucked. The performance was not at all reflective of their gear.

 

The new 4.0 leveling progression causes people to show up who end up with enough comms to get gear, but not know what to do with it. A few FP and heroics and they get enough blue crystals for a 208/216 mix. Yet they can't play their class worth a damm. They get away with it in the rest of the game because of stupid easy mode and companions that are better than we are. Then they hit ops and just die.

 

---

 

Solution: Allow GF to have a toggle, "only group with people who have completed the content before". I suspect you'll get 2 things. First, you'll get more "old hands" actually using GF. Second, you'll give people a reason to join a guild or find a friendly group to take them through the op the first time.

 

the problem before 4.0 was just levelling with kuat, and the SoR jesus droid FP. now from 1 to 65 you don't have to group with anyone to do all the content but ops. solo fp, solo heroics, kofte is solo fest. if someone is interested in group content (ops) maybe because they are still heavy story driven, he'll crush on a wall. if you level/do kofte with a dps spec you global anything, and can survive the ridicolous dtps content has (1.2k-1.6k heroic SF, 200-400 chapter X) thanks to OP companions. HM FP are dead, tacticals is crowded with people spamming AOE and basic attack once energy is low and that's all. SM ops are dumbed down a lot, and it can be somehow right, but where you have:

- not well scaled content ( sparky or underlurker for example)

- heavy mechanics like EV pylons or tanks in EC

 

you risk a wipe if not everybody has a minimum knowledge of roles..there's nothing BW can do, raising again the difficulty will only open the cry-hell gates here ( see tiny nerf on comps couple of months ago) the community is the only hope for new players to learn something and enjoy endgame if ever there will be one again.

[ebbehhm]

There are several things going on here.

 

First, yes, people do behave in the game in a way that they would not do so in real life. No real names are attached to our game names and there is no penalty for being a jerk. So some people behave in the game in a way that is simply not acceptable in real life. Only a "real names" policy would really do anything about this. But that has other issues.

 

Second, Bioware is at fault for not providing tools to help people better find "like minded players". There are times I'm in the mood to help newbies, and times I simply want to stomp something. The longer I play a game, the more often I find it is the latter rather than the former.

 

Third, the game has promoted lvl 65s who don't know what they are doing. Tonight, Rav GF popped, it appeared at first glance to be a decent group. Lots of 208/216 gear with a reasonable selection of augments (I was main tank in 216/220 ops token gear augmented). Great, this should be easy enough. Only one person spoke up about being "new". Wiped on first boss, lord the DPS sucked. The performance was not at all reflective of their gear.

 

The new 4.0 leveling progression causes people to show up who end up with enough comms to get gear, but not know what to do with it. A few FP and heroics and they get enough blue crystals for a 208/216 mix. Yet they can't play their class worth a damm. They get away with it in the rest of the game because of stupid easy mode and companions that are better than we are. Then they hit ops and just die.

 

---

 

Solution: Allow GF to have a toggle, "only group with people who have completed the content before". I suspect you'll get 2 things. First, you'll get more "old hands" actually using GF. Second, you'll give people a reason to join a guild or find a friendly group to take them through the op the first time.

 

@ your first paragraph.

 

I often call people who talk crap to newbies or because they're just bads themselves: "Sniveling little *****es that would be punished by a 12 year old if they said something wrong to one, thats why they hide behind fake faces, fake names, fake persona, because its the complete opposite of them IRL."

[BenduKundalini]

Once read a scientific article explaining how bullies:

 

1) are a minority

2) are a very vocal minority

3) silence the majority which shies out (hence the name "bully")

4) seize power and set a trend

5) and become less and less a minority and more and more the new norm

 

 

Also, another article detailled how standing up to threats tends to snowball. Like everyone is expecting someone to say something.

 

So this is where we can act. Be that someone, and when someone stands up, snowball.

 

Because that's not merely an mmo trend. Just take a bus and hear the teens...

Edited February 13, 2016 by BenduKundalini

[Unperson]

However, joining a "good" guild is probably the best suggestion. That's how I made if through my first ops.

 

I must add that making a "have completed before" toggle would most likely further divide an already fractured player base. We already have people demanding "achievements" for HM ops. The last thing this population needs is a veiled way of keeping inexperienced players from participating in content that they're paying to play.

 

Yep. The game could use a mentoring/coaching system, though. Joining a guild isn't always the be-all and end-all.

 

Perhaps the GF could be modified so that people queuing for an ops they haven't done before would be put in a "noob-queue", where the raid leader is drawn from a pool of players that have completed the HM and have voluntarily flagged themselves as "mentors" to teach people and lead groups of first-timers through content they know well. For higher rewards, bonus conquest points, dibs on a single loot piece at raid completion, whatever. Everybody wins and nobody has an excuse to chew new players out for queuing up. Not that an excuse is needed, but, anyway...

 

PVP is a whole different beast, and I can't think of anything that can be done to enforce a more "sportsmanslike" attitude in participants.

[JouerTue]

^^nice idea

[LordArtemis]

IMO the PVP and Raiding communities have been slowly killing their own content over time.

 

At one time, there was a large enough community of hardcore players to support both types of play, but quite a few modern game studies have demonstrated that the hardcore MMO market is shrinking rapidly. And it seems casuals have little interest in either form of play.

 

Toxic and elitist attitudes have made both types of play undesirable to casual players, and without casual players there is no future for the current PVP or raiding model.....they need to evolve IMO to survive.

[Aries_cz]

Penny Arcade guys explained this phenomenon over a decade ago

[Clone_Enforcer]

I agree with -passingstar-, I actually spend most of my time in solo mode flashpoints or do warzones once in a while because of these issues. I even turned off general chat from the chat settings because of this. But this is just one reason. The other reason is because I'm occupied in school right now which is a good thing because I wouldn't want to spend most of my day with trolls. It's a waste of time and I literally don't care. I just feel bad for the ones that don't know how to deal with these issues. They are pretty much pretty much breaking the rules of conductive, which they had signed before installing the game to begin with. But to at least decrease these issues I recommend players at least try to report these trolls for harassment, especially if they are a subscriber. It's one way of dealing with them, just don't be that guy that says "Reported" in general chat because it's unnecessary and only entices them. That and turn off general chat from the chat settings. I recommend being in a guild that doesn't contain contaminants like these.

[Clone_Enforcer]

IMO the PVP and Raiding communities have been slowly killing their own content over time.

 

At one time, there was a large enough community of hardcore players to support both types of play, but quite a few modern game studies have demonstrated that the hardcore MMO market is shrinking rapidly. And it seems casuals have little interest in either form of play.

 

Toxic and elitist attitudes have made both types of play undesirable to casual players, and without casual players there is no future for the current PVP or raiding model.....they need to evolve IMO to survive.

 

I actually submitted a suggestion about PVE content such as flashpoints and operations with companions. It should be within a few pages of the suggestion box forums. I think it's called "3 companions instead of group finder (optional for players)."

[DawnAskham]

There are several things going on here.

 

First, yes, people do behave in the game in a way that they would not do so in real life. No real names are attached to our game names and there is no penalty for being a jerk. So some people behave in the game in a way that is simply not acceptable in real life. Only a "real names" policy would really do anything about this. But that has other issues.

 

Second, Bioware is at fault for not providing tools to help people better find "like minded players". There are times I'm in the mood to help newbies, and times I simply want to stomp something. The longer I play a game, the more often I find it is the latter rather than the former.

 

Third, the game has promoted lvl 65s who don't know what they are doing. Tonight, Rav GF popped, it appeared at first glance to be a decent group. Lots of 208/216 gear with a reasonable selection of augments (I was main tank in 216/220 ops token gear augmented). Great, this should be easy enough. Only one person spoke up about being "new". Wiped on first boss, lord the DPS sucked. The performance was not at all reflective of their gear.

 

The new 4.0 leveling progression causes people to show up who end up with enough comms to get gear, but not know what to do with it. A few FP and heroics and they get enough blue crystals for a 208/216 mix. Yet they can't play their class worth a damm. They get away with it in the rest of the game because of stupid easy mode and companions that are better than we are. Then they hit ops and just die.

 

---

 

Solution: Allow GF to have a toggle, "only group with people who have completed the content before". I suspect you'll get 2 things. First, you'll get more "old hands" actually using GF. Second, you'll give people a reason to join a guild or find a friendly group to take them through the op the first time.

 

I'd recommend a couple of changes...

 

One, make a tuning pass across the leveling game - mostly for end planet / chapter boss fights to make sure they are moderately challenging even with companions (to 'test' for ability to handle simple mechanics such as interrupt and move out of bad).

 

Two, something like WoW's 'proving ground' that MUST be completed before using the LFG tool for HM FPs and SM Ops - and for those wondering, providing ground is a simple scripted encounter that requires a player to perform at a basic level in order to complete (for dps its doing enough dps to beat timers, moving away from bad, and interrupting).

 

Three, in-game measurement tool for performance - at least provide a recap summary at the end of a boss fight (maybe even just unsuccessful fights). Sure some might use it to kick 'bad' players from groups, but let's be honest, under-performing players won't ever improve if they have no way of knowing their performance is low.

Edited February 13, 2016 by DawnAskham

[-PassingStar-]

IThree, in-game measurement tool for performance - at least provide a recap summary at the end of a boss fight (maybe even just unsuccessful fights). Sure some might use it to kick 'bad' players from groups, but let's be honest, under-performing players won't ever improve if they have no way of knowing their performance is low.

You don't need to kick a player unless they're clearly not doing anything, or just purposefully trolling the Op.

 

I had a situation the other day in the "Eyeless" Operation. We had a tank that had very low gear, and didn't understand how to properly taunt the boss. ( even with the bolster it was low ) The other tank was the exact opposite. However, we allowed the lower geared player to take the boss ( this was SM anyway... ). We wiped three times.

 

Without getting upset or lashing out, the well geared tank politely asked if his/her counterpart knew the fight? The answer was, of course, no. After a brief explanation of mechanics and taunting ( yes, he/she didn't know how to taunt ) we started the Op again and defeated the boss with no deaths.

 

The other tank didn't rush to the rescue. He/she actually spent a few minutes explaining the fight, instead of wasting time berating the inexperienced player for poor performance.

 

As to the idea concerning a GF modification that would allow knowledgeable players to be grouped with newer ones, yes, I agree. That modification could work.

[JennyFlynn]

Much of this is the reason I don't do Ops or PvP in this game. I did plenty of semi-casual raiding in WoW and got used to the toxic levels there, same for PvP but it's made me reluctant about diving into that atmosphere here. I enjoy SW, I enjoy the majority of story lines this game provides us with and though I'd like to explore Ops and their respective story parts (if any) for the sake of further immersion.. I don't wanna deal with getting yelled at for not having the most optimal gear, for not knowing the fights and so forth so I've taken a pass on all of it. I've done some PvP for the sake of the Alliance quest and try to contribute best as I can but I toggle chat off for my own sanity.

 

Greed, arrogance, foul language, rude behavior, elitist behavior, entitlement and so forth just seems to go hand in hand with raiding/pvp'ing in any MMO which is disappointing. Not everyone is like that of course but the majority or at least the most vocal crowd, is.

[DomiSotto]

I am a Public Noob #1, but I wanted to try everything this game have to offer. I have come and asked for help numerous times on the forums and received awesome response. I have also met people in the game that were happy to help out and group up with me and give pointers. In every community. PvP, PvE and GSF. Well, Okay, I did not do RP.

 

I always remember that time my friend an accomplished NiM raider (whom I met in PvP) was taking me through the pugs of all ops to give me cheevos (hey, I am a tank, and see that healer? Comes with me), and when someone new fell off the bridge, and the rest of the pug was sitting there talking about how the guy was a moron, my friend simply went and walked the new person back from the entrance.

 

In PvP, I played with really great people. There is nothing like being on a team that has that camaraderie going and retains a good feeling about each-other after a tough match even if it was lost. It's really the best thing in this game.

 

When I tried ranked, I had a couple of players furiously whisper-yelling me. I sent each of them a mail with credits and apologizes for ruining their match, and a promise that I will not queue again, as clearly my experience was insfficient. One of them returned the mail unopened; the second returned it with a nice response.

 

When I interact with the new folks I always remember the guys who were both great players and simply very decent human beings. They are the people who made the genre awesome.

 

I hesitate to discontinue my sub because I will miss running the ops and fighting in the warzones with the players I came to like.

Edited February 13, 2016 by DomiSotto

[-PassingStar-]

Much of this is the reason I don't do Ops or PvP in this game. I did plenty of semi-casual raiding in WoW and got used to the toxic levels there, same for PvP but it's made me reluctant about diving into that atmosphere here. I enjoy SW, I enjoy the majority of story lines this game provides us with and though I'd like to explore Ops and their respective story parts (if any) for the sake of further immersion.. I don't wanna deal with getting yelled at for not having the most optimal gear, for not knowing the fights and so forth so I've taken a pass on all of it. I've done some PvP for the sake of the Alliance quest and try to contribute best as I can but I toggle chat off for my own sanity.

 

Greed, arrogance, foul language, rude behavior, elitist behavior, entitlement and so forth just seems to go hand in hand with raiding/pvp'ing in any MMO which is disappointing. Not everyone is like that of course but the majority or at least the most vocal crowd, is.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Here we have a player who is, understandably so, unwilling to participate in Ops because they're not interested in the potential, and unreasonable backlash they might incur if a mistake is made. It's a shame.

 

The vast majority of MMO's. from what I've seen thus far, die not because of poor mechanics or lousy CS, but because of the players who make the environment too toxic to enjoy.

 

People ask why the PvP servers have practically died away? Why did EA move those players to PvE servers? Here's a hint... It's not because there's something wrong with PVP.

[casirabit]

First, yes, people do behave in the game in a way that they would not do so in real life. No real names are attached to our game names and there is no penalty for being a jerk. So some people behave in the game in a way that is simply not acceptable in real life. Only a "real names" policy would really do anything about this. But that has other issues.

 

While what you are saying may be correct, I refuse to accept that as a reason for someone to act like a jerk. Sure people use it but I tend to tell them, get over it, you behave exactly like you do in the game, whether or not you will admit it.

 

Sure, people get upset and lose their tempers but that is totally different than being a jerk. To me if you behave like a jerk in the game, you behave like a jerk in real life.

 

To many people use the internet for their behavior as a cope-out so they don't have to take responsibility for their own behavior. Sure we say things at times we shouldn't but a lot of us do realize that and we will stop and apologize for acting like a jerk. We don't use the internet as an excuse and when we stop letting people saying oh its the internet for an excuse it will continue. We need to take responsibility for our actions without using the internet as an excuse for our actions.

[Cernow]

Whilst I totally agree it's not good, it's far from a new problem. However there's a reason it seems to be getting worse. Most of the problems described here are cured by finding a good guild to run Ops, FPs and PvP with. But, most established guilds seem to be suffering from low participation due to how stale the group-oriented content has become in this game.

 

With such a paucity of new group content added to the game, most guilds seem to be idling. Where there is still Ops activity it's in the form of 'raid logging' and many players aren't seen much outside of raid hours. Consequently, there's very little mentoring of new players, no Stronghold activity (which is often bugged anyway), very few adhoc FP or Ops runs, not much guild-based PvP etc etc.

 

KOTFE has focused on solo story. The success or otherwise of this can be debated, but what can't be disputed is that KOTFE has done almost nothing for group-oriented and guild-based gameplay.

 

MMOs live and die by their community. Neglect group content and you neglect community with inevitable consequences. Ultimately you end up with a single player game with a few multiplayer components dominated by the worst that PUG-mentality can generate.

[TX_Angel]

IMO the PVP and Raiding communities have been slowly killing their own content over time.

 

At one time, there was a large enough community of hardcore players to support both types of play, but quite a few modern game studies have demonstrated that the hardcore MMO market is shrinking rapidly. And it seems casuals have little interest in either form of play.

 

Toxic and elitist attitudes have made both types of play undesirable to casual players, and without casual players there is no future for the current PVP or raiding model.....they need to evolve IMO to survive.

 

The lack of new ops for more than a year and PvP maps for almost two years doesn't help.

 

Back when we used to get new ops, there were guilds and groups of people who trained up newbies to be in ops teams. Today, less so.

 

My own guild doesn't do this as much as we used to. We still do, but it is nothing like before. That is because there is nothing new to do, so everyone is getting tired of the same content.

[Myracarrah]

This is an issue that happens in every game that has raiding.

 

You have guilds who run the content smoothly, and beautifully. Who train their members, who take time to go over char skills, run parsers for dps checks. Go over gearing for the biggest advantage.

 

And you have... PUGS. PUGgers might be guilded, but notice they aren't raiding with their guild? Mostly a PUG is a collection of people who aren't in an Ops/raid guild.

 

Then there is a different set of people in PUGs... an angry bitter set of people. This angry bitter group was in a Raiding guild. And due to lack of content they no longer have the numbers to raid. So they have to PUG to do content that used to run 'smoothly and beautifully'. They used to teach people rotations, gear, specs. And now there is no point in teaching that, because once the PUG finishes, the rest of the PUG will wander off and they will be stuck teaching again next Op. And the next. And the next. This only makes the seething anger worse. These poor lost souls run the risk of becoming a d-bag if they are not careful.

 

What you are bumping into OP isn't that raiding and pvp is toxic. It's that a couple of people in raids or pvp are toxic. Report those people if they cross the line. Swearing, name calling, and slurs of any sort are bad. Just, report them.

 

The biggest barrier for Ops imo isn't the 'jerks'. It isn't the 'newbs'. It isn't the 'bads'. It's the inability to give directions clearly. Many games with raids have a voice chat. This has lead to people thinking a twenty minute rant about a boss fight is okay. It's not. That twenty minute rant is simply time for most raiders to get a drink. Smoke a cig. Use the potty. And possibly have nookie with their spouse. No one listens to that twenty minute rant.

 

So there is the Ops leader thinking they can babble (like a forum post) instead of giving the directions in ONE paragraph or less using small words. So OP this part has to fall on you and anyone else new to raiding. You have to ask for clear direction. Ask a friend. Ask a group mate. Ask the raid leader in /whisper. But you must confirm that the whole 13 minutes of typed out directions that were given to you, boils down to 'DPS don't stand in the stupid'.

[Nokodoko]

Always have to remember a lot of people simply do not have the natural skill set to teach someone. For example, someone may be skilled with their class but simply lack the ability to explain things in a detailed yet coherent matter. Also comes down to time and to be frank some people are simply do not have patience. I getting annoyed easily when it comes to helping other players, and a noticeable shift in my tone appears, so I tend to not avoid offering my help because I know I do not have the patience to teach someone, so I rather just kick the person and in hopefully get someone that knows the encounter.

 

That is the main reason I tend to only run content with people I know. Though this is why they need a toggle, to establish group sets for like minded people. If they had this in place newbies would not have to risk getting kicked because they are they new to the content, by players that simply want to blow through the content without any breaks.

 

May be selfish, but simply put it is not fair to force a certain play style on anyone. Be it a new player or older one.