BlackEyeArtistry Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 You do realize that this is the argument that terrorists use when they are targetting civilians: you account a people responsible for the actions of their leader... That's wrong on so many levels. You do realize it was Hitlers factories and and supply that we focused on in the WW2. We struck at his ability to make war by fighting his army and his resupply. " you account a people responsible for the actions of their leader.." If your leader is mismanaging his position and you as his constituents not do anything to remove him/her then yes you are as responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demotivator Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 You do realize that this is the argument that terrorists use when they are targetting civilians: you account a people responsible for the actions of their leader... That's wrong on so many levels. You do realize it was Hitlers factories and and supply that we focused on in the WW2. We struck at his ability to make war by fighting his army and his resupply. " you account a people responsible for the actions of their leader.." If your leader is mismanaging his position and you as his constituents not do anything to remove him/her then yes you are as responsible. Wow. Just wow. You could join ISIL, you'd fit in perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) I love how the OP is only now disgusted by Kaliyo's actions. All the horrible, awful things she does to people in the Agent storyline (including the player) was okay? Three months I waited just for the chance to skewer her for all the garbage she's pulled, and I don't even get the option to force-choke or electrocute her? Even a little?! This right here should be the beloved reunion between Kaliyo and agents who mistakenly romanced her. Edited February 14, 2016 by ZanyaCross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrAwesome Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I like Koth... the fact that he helps us and is fighting for us against his own country is really commendable, and it continues to show his quality because you see how he loves his nation, yet is still willing to fight against it. put yourself in his shoes, would you want countless people to be slaughtered? won't you want to save as many as possible than not? Koth a good character... so what is it you don't like? That he's black ? - I know a lot of you are picky about superficial things like that. He's character personality? I mean you see what the guy stands for. He's attitude? can you blame him for having beef with Senya? so why the hate? it seems irrational like most of the hate people have today. My problem with Koth is that, unlike every character in all of the other Star Wars properties, he doesn't have the good sense to openly obey the Sith Lord. He openly defies me and I can't force choke him or kill him. It'd be one thing if he was subverisely sneaky. He is not. He is protected by plot armor and he knows it and acts on it. That's how it feels like he's written. I do not tolerate insubordination, but I'm being forced to. The heart of the problem is bad, terrible writing, but Koth is the face of that bad, terrible writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myracarrah Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I like Koth... the fact that he helps us and is fighting for us against his own country is really commendable, and it continues to show his quality because you see how he loves his nation, yet is still willing to fight against it. put yourself in his shoes, would you want countless people to be slaughtered? won't you want to save as many as possible than not? Koth a good character... so what is it you don't like? That he's black ? - I know a lot of you are picky about superficial things like that. He's character personality? I mean you see what the guy stands for. He's attitude? can you blame him for having beef with Senya? so why the hate? it seems irrational like most of the hate people have today. So why would a former soldier expect a military alliance to not hit tactical targets on Zakuul? Kaliyo does explain the high value targets she went after. Communications and the Overwatch droid hub for example. Would my characters want people dead? No, not really. Would my characters want a high value military target burned to the ground? Of course. My characters are leading a warring faction after all. Koth is adorable. I saw him and went 'Damn he's cute' and then he talked. Completely ruined it for me. It's not even his voice. He has a great voice. His voice actor sounds delicious. It's his words. They annoy me. His personality? Yup. You bet. Marauder - The Emperor was evil he ate billions. Koth - He was a nice guy. Marauder - Don't horn in on Senya's mission. Koth - But I'm better than her because I'm a people! Marauder - Let the super droid try and unscramble this ancient ship. Koth - It's my ship and I don't trust anyone to touch anything despite my crash record! You don't see what he stands for. You only see his hypocrisy and hear his whining. Basically he's like Ashara with better hair. And I hated Ashara too. And yes I can blame him for having a beef with Senya. He's mad that she followed her orders longer than he did, and still saw the errors of her ways? He followed his orders, until he didn't. Senya followed her orders, until she didn't. Sorry Senya's orders also included hunting down traitors? The very people she served with are now hunting her down... so to me... YES I can blame him for not seeing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyWookiee Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I agree. Although I probably will lose Koth on my main given her choices when I run through chapter 10. Once Kaliyo outlives her usefulness though, it's out the airlock she goes. I feel the same way. Yet, I'm worried now that I allowed her to join up at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 You know what would have been way better? Let Kaliyo hit the button, then kill her and tell Koth you just got to her too late. This game really doesn't let you play like a proper Sith should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archonitek Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 While I don't agree with Koth I don't fault him for his view point. He doesn't know who the Sith Emperor is, he only knows Valkorian, who completely elevated his home planet from a back water into a power house. As far as Koth's concerned, Valkorian is a pretty stand up bloke. Those millions killed on Ziost? He only has evidence saying the Sith Emperor did it and this information is coming from the pitiful remnants of a conquered galaxy pointing fingers and screaming 'they're the same guy!' We know its true because we played 4 years of content to get here, but he doesn't, so of course he'd be skeptical. Same as Senya. Remember, during Valkorians rule the Eternal fleet only made raids against the Republic and Empire, it was only until Valkorian 'dies', Arcann starts a full scale curb stomp and starts massacring innocents that Koth decides 'Fuk this bollocks, this isn't what I joined up for!' and jumps ship to help us out instead. So well done Koth. I'll still tell you to piss off and die on my Warrior and Inquisitor, but that's me keeping in character. On to Kaliyo, my agent romanced her. I liked that my agent was able to focus her into becoming more than a low level psycho gun for hire. Every time she pulled something behind his back, he pretty much strong arms her into changing her ways. Hell, the LS option in KOTFE, when you tell her she's better than a mass murderer and she decides not to go through with bombing civilians, is pretty awesome in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venn_Dras Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) I've heard a lot of complaints from people about how they haven't seen any kind of consequences or different results from choices made in previous chapters up until now. But given the way Bioware is playing the story out, the problem is that they are expecting results too quickly in what is obviously a long story line. The KOTFE expansion that was originally released may have had 9 chapters, but if you look at the actual content it's more of a prologue to the initial story. It sets the foundation for what your character can and cannot do in this new world he/she has woken up into and its more believable story wise to be forced into making alliances that they would rather not make in order to achieve their goal. If I'm not mistaken, the developers have mentioned KOTFE will continue past Chapter 16. There's no reason not to believe that we'll eventually be able to expand or reduce our Alliance later on. Instant gratification won't get you very far in this type of game. It loses the magic of it's great storytelling way too quickly. A good example is like reading the end of a book first. Edited February 14, 2016 by h_weber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 He's attitude? can you blame him for having beef with Senya? That he dislikes her, OK, that's understandable. That he doesn't acknowledge his contribution - that she hunted him (side note: she was doing her job, wasn't she?) was because of what he did (or did not) do, not just for fun - not so OK. In essence, he ends up complaining that "she was hunting a traitor" and "she was hunting Koth" turned out to be talking about the same hunt. That's a lamentable attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimmidice Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 So, now we get to gain Kalyo as a companion. What a b****h. Never realised what a disgusting persona she had while playing my agent. Anyway, let's get to the point it bothers me: How did you miss that? i mean she really is a grade A B***H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonthor Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Choices that matter? Hm I still hope that this will come. I killed Tano, (Person number 4 on my Jugger Death List) Still miss 4 Comp. who deserve to be killed. And well as it was written here i guess the Wrath of the Empire never ever would recrute any republic "Guys" or Slave races, ok Twi'lek Females are something other i mean Wookies,Jawas etc. So as a Sith Warrior you would kill everyone who is against you. Oh my Deathlist crows. Kalyio well, she is something usefull for my Jugger thats why she is part of my Team Edited February 14, 2016 by Amonthor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyWookiee Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I've heard a lot of complaints from people about how they haven't seen any kind of consequences or different results from choices made in previous chapters up until now. But given the way Bioware is playing the story out, the problem is that they are expecting results too quickly in what is obviously a long story line. The KOTFE expansion that was originally released may have had 9 chapters, but if you look at the actual content it's more of a prologue to the initial story. It sets the foundation for what your character can and cannot do in this new world he/she has woken up into and its more believable story wise to be forced into making alliances that they would rather not make in order to achieve their goal. If I'm not mistaken, the developers have mentioned KOTFE will continue past Chapter 16. There's no reason not to believe that we'll eventually be able to expand or reduce our Alliance later on. Instant gratification won't get you very far in this type of game. It loses the magic of it's great storytelling way too quickly. A good example is like reading the end of a book first. Well said!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkov Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I hope that we see more of the main characters coming and going. I've never liked Koth, so seeing him leave is good, but there are going other companions in those main slots that I would either like to keep or leave depending on what class I'm playing. My Shadow is the perfect diplomat, so all are welcome with him, but on my Assassin Koth is gone. For my Commando, she'd never keep Kaliyo around any longer than absolutely necessary. And I'm sure there are going to be more examples like that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 i'm okay with Koth leaving if that's what ends up happening depending on which char I'm running through Chapt 10 but they could have balanced it a little better. The way I play my Jedi Knight, she saw through Kaliyo within no time and has 0 interest into bringing her into the Alliance. Bringing her to Odessen no less, a base we're trying hard to shield and hide from Arcann. And how do we know for sure that while she's wandering around 'taking care of business' she's not ratting us out to Arcann and leading him straight to us? We already know Kaliyo can't be trusted so why on earth bring her there? Keep her as a contact elsewhere perhaps but showing her the base? The Chapter could have been slightly better if we'd had the option to decline Kaliyo as well as the risk of losing Koth.. that said, it is what it is and I'm just gonna see where future chapters take us. Perhaps Senya will be our next problem, she seemed rather displeased about us not going after her kids directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_plankskull Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 i'm okay with Koth leaving if that's what ends up happening depending on which char I'm running through Chapt 10 but they could have balanced it a little better. The way I play my Jedi Knight, she saw through Kaliyo within no time and has 0 interest into bringing her into the Alliance. Bringing her to Odessen no less, a base we're trying hard to shield and hide from Arcann. And how do we know for sure that while she's wandering around 'taking care of business' she's not ratting us out to Arcann and leading him straight to us? We already know Kaliyo can't be trusted so why on earth bring her there? Keep her as a contact elsewhere perhaps but showing her the base? The Chapter could have been slightly better if we'd had the option to decline Kaliyo as well as the risk of losing Koth.. that said, it is what it is and I'm just gonna see where future chapters take us. Perhaps Senya will be our next problem, she seemed rather displeased about us not going after her kids directly. If there's one thing we know about Kaliyo... is that she will side with whoever to get revenge she hates most on. Currently, at the time, this is Zakuul and Arcann, at the moment she will side with us and remain trustworthy due to her bloodlust and revenge, but when Zakuul burns and Arcann falls... well... then we have to worry about trusting her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Frankly all the NPCs in the alliance seem to be boy scouts for the most part. Lana has her dark side but shes in the role of peace keeper as much as anything, hardly what you would call a true Sith. The loss of MARR left a large void in the process.... there is no truly darkside voice on the core NPCs. Koth is a little mew anyway unless he gets what he wants how he wants it... hated him even on my light side guy. He's a bit too much the religious guy that has to convert you personality for my tastes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eanelinea Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 While I'm not a huge fan of Koth's, I didn't want him leaving, so even my DS Jugg didn't blow up civilians so he'd stick around. I have a horrible feeling you WANT the main story companions to stick around. Seriously. Plus, well as much as some things he says makes me want to smack him, I don't HATE him, I just don't like him. I do have a feeling that Senya will be next to go in chapter 11 if we make the appropriate decisions FOR her to walk. I dunno. I'm just taking it one step at a time. I like Kaliyo ONLY on my agent, they have 5+ (game years) years of living together on a ship. Kaliyo on the other classes, not so much. But I'm really hoping, I keep my original companions and get rid of the other 9 billion of them I have. I DO NOT like shared companions. I can stand Nico, the two HKs and Treek but not other class' companions. Please just go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demotivator Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Frankly all the NPCs in the alliance seem to be boy scouts for the most part. Lana has her dark side but shes in the role of peace keeper as much as anything, hardly what you would call a true Sith. The same thing could be told about Darth Marr. Heck his ghost and Satele looked to get along pretty good. That's something that a lot of people seem to miss, with the fight against the Revanites then the Emperor, the times have changed. Some key characters on both side have understood that the war between the Republic and the Empire has become futile. You're free to play your characters the way you want but that's the reason why I made most of mines more flexible, LS characters that will sometimes be more pragmatic and allow Lana to kill someone who would still come after us anyway or a DS character that will spare the lives of innocent because he has gone beyond that. It's not like DS or LS points matter anyway and with the development of the story line being more neutral (or more like a balance between dark and light) does make sense. Edited February 16, 2016 by demotivator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grania Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) The Quinn thing happened years ago, how would it make any sense to shoot him dead now, essentially out of the blue? In a way I feel bad for the writers having to shoehorn these old characters into a story where they don't really belong. On the other hand, they took away our crews and gave themselves the responsibility of bringing them back for us, in compelling ways. I'm still, after all this time, desperate for more personal and companion story that never came and never will. I don't personally want to kill Quinn, I forgave him, but I do understand the desire and expectation players have to continue where they left off. We're all now pretty much the same Outlander. Kill the Zakuulian people or don't, lose Koth or don't. We're still all one conglomeration of a person, and running around with another person's spouses and friends because individuals no longer exist. But I'm really hoping, I keep my original companions and get rid of the other 9 billion of them I have. I DO NOT like shared companions. Agreed, I hate it. Edited February 16, 2016 by grania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Assembled Whiners : "WE WANT CHOICES THAT MATTER!" Bioware: Ok, here you go. Your choice genuinely affects Chapter 10 and beyond. Assembled Whiners: "DAMMIT, THIS ISN'T WHAT I EXPECTED TO HAPPEN! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS THIS WAY?!" This, and the fact they put in tons of tickets in Beta, is the reason why they removed the ability to kill off certain companions from the original story. BioWare felt at that time letting you kill a companion was going to cause a ton of tickets, so they cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyxgem Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Could be worse could get no choice in anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grania Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Could be worse could get no choice in anything Ha, yep. Could be just like any other mmo where you really are the same person doing the exact same missions/quests. Maybe we're spoiled, maybe we're just too attached to our characters and wanting to do and say what our characters would. Well, who says rp isn't important to anyone anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demotivator Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 This, and the fact they put in tons of tickets in Beta, is the reason why they removed the ability to kill off certain companions from the original story. BioWare felt at that time letting you kill a companion was going to cause a ton of tickets, so they cut it. TBH it was a different thing. Vanilla companions were locked into a role so people losing their only healing companion because he/she kept disagreeing with the player was going to cause a few problems. Companions also had a proficiency in certain crew skills. The companion overhaul got rid of all these specificities, you can use them for any role, only the influence matters in regards to crafting and crew skill missions, so it is now easier to kill or let a companion leave with little consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) We got to kill of Tano Vik so there's still hope Quinn can have an accident in the airlock. I don't want Quinn to have an accident in the airlock. I want to bash his face in repeatedly close fisted, just to sort of, ya know, get him in the mood. Once he spits out some of his teeth with the blood gushing from his gums, this will give him some time to realize what's about to happen and more importantly, why. As he's coming out of his thought provoking daze, a few well placed crushing blows to his insteps will ensure that he remains present and compliant to his imminent and forthcoming downfall. A well placed lightsaber blow to remove his dominant hand to insure any measure of self-defense would be at best pathetic will than set the stage for his slow and agonizing death. Reminding him of his complicitness with his 'Lord's" arch-nemesis in seeking the same's death, should than clue him in, should in the most extreme of off-chances, he remain confused about why this is occurring. Giving him the chance to have a say in the manner of his impending death being only right and proper given the fifteen minutes of loyal service he had rendered, the choice of death between being set on fire and allowed to take all the time he'd like burning to ashes or disembowelment via blunt pipe. This choice being nothing more than pleasantry, naturally. In the end, he would come to learn that there was no real reason both implementations of death couldn't be combined, merely having one flow into the other until after the slow disembowelment process [which as a form of death was ritualized by the samurai of feudal Japan], that part of the body not a gaping hole cluttered only by the presence of outwardbound intestinal tract, being drenched in an flammable mixture than ignited. How's that for choices that matter? =] Be nice to not have the ship's bridge cluttered with **** again =] Edited February 16, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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