SootyTX Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wrong again, you aren't very good at this I am afraid good sir. Higher rates and charges are not caused by charge backs, they are caused by high risk debt cancellation and credit negotiation. Visa/MC charge roughly 3% of every purchase to one of their cards from the company, PLUS a rate of interest to the customer through their bank (They both get a cut). There is a reason Visa/MC have such good customer protections, it makes the customer happy and spending. Mad/Upset customers do not spend as much, that cuts into their bottom line MUCH more than a few charge backs. How is the bank having higher costs than it would otherwise have due to charge backs 'wrong' as something that leads to increased costs for us as bank users? It all contributes, fraudulent charge backs are a cost to the bank, how do you not understand this basic concept? Sounds to me like you are another entitled snowflake like the OP that expects everyone else to pay for their mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyDemonNinja Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Easily faked simply by not taking a screen shot of your new items. Everyone else is reporting 50-60% cubes, but somehow you're the magical snowflake that got 97% cubes? If anyone believes this BS I have a bridge to sell them. Can't fake whats in the database I could also live stream it. For Fuc*s sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyDemonNinja Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Sure. ROFL. This. <3 it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelballz Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 His Bank through Visa/MC would act as the paying authority and refund the money, and then deny/reverse the fund transfer through their computer system. EA could dispute it, but in this case probably wouldn't. $150 isnt worth EAs time unless they saw a bigger threat like a class action coming. The bank Visa/MC on the other hand has a customer to keep happy, and they would fight as they have three of the Aces in the deck. You would be amazed how much power Visa/MC has over companies worldwide. Thanks for the response I was interested in knowing as I have little knowledge in consumer laws. Personally I'm a customer is right kind of guy and as long as EA takes away his items they should refund him his money in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict_Nephilim Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Your analogy is totally misrepresentative of the facts as well as pure hyperbole. When you buy crates or anything else from the market, you are given the exact details of what you are purchasing at the point of sale. So no, this was not a bait and switch of any kind. Not at all and totally false. I am actually amazed that BW/EA hasn't gotten a class action over their 'gambling boxes' yet. If I ran a store front, selling 'mystery boxes' out of my store, I'd be arrested for running a gambling ring. Do you know what is in a crate before you open it? Cause that is one hell of a trick. If not, then you cannot say the customer knows what they are buying. They are buying a CHANCE at a set of listed items on display in the tool tip. They are taking that chance based on the representation of past purchases of a similar product. By changing the rules in such a dramatic way without informing the customer the company is at fault. The analogy is solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolxinol Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Call your CC company and dispute the charge. That is probably the best way to go about getting your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict_Nephilim Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the response I was interested in knowing as I have little knowledge in consumer laws. Personally I'm a customer is right kind of guy and as long as EA takes away his items they should refund him his money in my opinion. I agree totally, but in EA's defense it would create a cluster storm. The entire business model of SWTOR is now based off of those gambling boxes and the Cartel Market. If they allow the customer to 'win' in this case they would open the flood gates of other customers because of a set precedence and then set themselves up for a 3 point shot of a class action. What is more than likely to happen, is EA will decline to fight the charge back (TOTALLY different than giving him a refund), the customer will get his money back. Then EA/BW will ban any and all accounts in their system using the same credit card, name, and shipping address as the customer. As I said, EA doesn't like losing. Edited February 10, 2016 by Relict_Nephilim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beattlebilly Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The cubes replaced the Bronze items which were removed. What's the drop rate of cubes vs Bi's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 So once again we have some people with "buyers remorse" who want to blame anybody but themselves, then start threatening to "sue" or get their money back another way. There is no refund for being upset you purchased something - but I'm sure it's everyone's fault but your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelballz Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I agree totally, but in EA's defense it would create a cluster storm. The entire business model of SWTOR is now based off of those gambling boxes and the Cartel Market. If they allow the customer to 'win' in this case they would open the flood gates of other customers because of a set precedence and then set themselves up for a 3 point shot of a class action. What is more than likely to happen, is EA will decline to fight the charge back (TOTALLY different than giving him a refund), the customer will get his money back. Then EA/BW will ban any and all accounts in their system using the same credit card, name, and shipping address as the customer. As I said, EA doesn't like losing. This makes sense I could see them giving him a refund and then in turn banning him. I think I read that somewhere in the TOS they use it to blackmail consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict_Nephilim Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 This makes sense I could see them giving him a refund and then in turn banning him. I think I read that somewhere in the TOS they use it to blackmail consumers. Par for the course for EA. There was a sports game thing through Origin a few years back that kept charging people who had canceled their sub, so they started submitting charge backs. EA closed all their EA and Origin accounts even though it was their error that caused the charge backs. EA is not a dragon I'd like to poke, they can have my $150. Ill just vote with my wallet and be more careful next time and not be a 'first adopter' of new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootyTX Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Not at all and totally false. I am actually amazed that BW/EA hasn't gotten a class action over their 'gambling boxes' yet. If I ran a store front, selling 'mystery boxes' out of my store, I'd be arrested for running a gambling ring. Do you know what is in a crate before you open it? Cause that is one hell of a trick. If not, then you cannot say the customer knows what they are buying. They are buying a CHANCE at a set of listed items on display in the tool tip. They are taking that chance based on the representation of past purchases of a similar product. By changing the rules in such a dramatic way without informing the customer the company is at fault. The analogy is solid. No it isn't but we clearly aren't going to agree on this even conceptually. You refute your own argument by stating he doesn't know what he is buying, then saying he is buying a chance at a listed set of items. So he does know what he is buying. Same is in other crates, he buying one or more chances at various items. The fact that he claims to have only received 3% new items is what he's complaining about, NOT that he didn't get what was advertised - I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Wider reports on drop rates indicate a far higher average rate for brand new items. He got unlucky and expects someone else to pay for it, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) I am actually amazed that BW/EA hasn't gotten a class action over their 'gambling boxes' yet. If I ran a store front, selling 'mystery boxes' out of my store, I'd be arrested for running a gambling ring. Or, you'd be one of the innumerable stores that sell Magic or Pokemon card packs. Edited February 10, 2016 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newyankalt Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 OP is all talk, I doubt he called the bank and I doubt his story is even accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 OP is all talk, I doubt he called the bank and I doubt his story is even accurate. Have you managed to ever reach CS on the phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict_Nephilim Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wider reports on drop rates indicate a far higher average rate for brand new items. He got unlucky and expects someone else to pay for it, period. My own drop rate was close to 60% Junk Boxes(cubes). Do I feel lied to and scammed? Yea. But I'm not crying about it, nor am I calling my bank or Customer Service. I think that gambling boxes as a general rule are a bad idea as a business model, happy customers spend more than angry customers. As a DEV team your content should inspire your audience, entertain your players and make them content on the worst of days and happy on the best of days. Sadly, EA and BW have taken the opposite stance and have decided the best way to use this game is to trick, smash and grab as much as they can as quickly as they can. Here is a dose of truth from someone on the inside of the gaming industry (Not with EA), Companies like EA are all about the bottom line. They look at a game like SWTOR and see it as an outdated model of gaming, high maintenance, high development cost, with limited upside based on a shrinking player base. They look at companies like King, Gameloft and others who have the ability to spend 3 to 6 months developing a 'free' game with a team of 6 DEVs and then pull in millions a month, and once the player base shrinks they close the game and rinse and repeat. Look at games like Candy Crush and Dragon Mania, CASH COWS compared to SWTOR. EA looks at that and demands more and more money for less and less resources from models like SWTOR because they dont see the difference in the player bases, they see only money and risk vs. reward. The root of SWTORs problems lie in the greed of EA, the pressure from the executives put on the SWTOR team and the total destruction of 2000's style gaming culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newyankalt Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Have you managed to ever reach CS on the phone? Don't need to but OP made the choice to buy CC and he got what he wanted, he then proceeded to use the SWTOR gambling system and looks like the cards where not in his favour... I don't see the problem?? It's his own fault and he did it willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Can't fake whats in the database I could also live stream it. For Fuc*s sake. Feel free to prove it dude. You're the one who made the claim of results nowhere near in line with what everyone else is reporting (97% cubes vs 50-60%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyDemonNinja Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Feel free to prove it dude. You're the one who made the claim of results nowhere near in line with what everyone else is reporting (97% cubes vs 50-60%). You clearly dont know how to read, go look at some of the other forum posts out there. I have no time for salty trolls like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Feel free to prove it dude. You're the one who made the claim of results nowhere near in line with what everyone else is reporting (97% cubes vs 50-60%). When I opened 10 packs I got 18 cubes, seems like 90% to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Not at all and totally false. I am actually amazed that BW/EA hasn't gotten a class action over their 'gambling boxes' yet. If I ran a store front, selling 'mystery boxes' out of my store, I'd be arrested for running a gambling ring. Do you know what is in a crate before you open it? Cause that is one hell of a trick. If not, then you cannot say the customer knows what they are buying. They are buying a CHANCE at a set of listed items on display in the tool tip. They are taking that chance based on the representation of past purchases of a similar product. By changing the rules in such a dramatic way without informing the customer the company is at fault. The analogy is solid. No, the analogy is not solid. You can go look for yourself, the packs have always made it clear that you have a chance to get a certain item and are not guaranteed anything. The current pack lists it as "2 items drawn from ____" and then lists all of the things you can get in those 2 spots, including the chance cubes. So you know going in that you have a CHANCE to get the items on display in the tool tip, not a guarantee. Even moreso than that, the chance cubes themselves are clearly displayed on the corner of packs to make it clear they have chance cubes in them and then they are, again, shown in the tooltip as being in the pack and then it mentions what can be in said chance cubes. So they are making it very clear that the chance cubes are in the packs and explicitly stating what can be in those chance cubes. If you don't like random packs as a business model, that's fine. I don't either. But you can't say the customer wasn't informed, they were. In multiple different ways since Bioware also detailed all of these changes on the forums (including the possibility of getting 2 chance cubes in one pack). I don't like these changes and I definitely think they should ensure the chance cubes don't take up both spots in the packs to at least guarantee something new, but that doesn't change the fact that it's made very clear that the chance cubes are in the packs so you can't say you didn't get what you paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokodoko Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Good luck with that skippy, cause they dont refund CC because your upset witb the drop rate. If you become aggresive on the phone with their CS, they also have a policy of just hanging up. Maybe, after hearing you need to submit a ticket, you started to raise voice, or make demands? Yes....no...maybe? *edit: post meant to reply to OP Their are two ways he could get CC back, method one if they birthday one the account is a minor then he could request a refund for most recent CC that has been bought on the account. Worked in my case when my little bro used my credit card to buy CC on his account. Second way which I have never tried but a guild mate had it happen to him, he took his mothers credit card and bought over 300 bucks worth of CC, while bioware did not refund her the money on her end, they made the suggestion to do request a charge back from the banks side. Though doing this gets your account locked on biowares side, but she was able to get the money back with the help of her bank. Pretty sure if the second option is true, a lot of people abuse the hell out it if they have no desire to play the game anymore, so not sure how true it is, but said guildie has not been ingame since. And with the nature of credit card transactions and the internet, I do know a lot of companies go with the mindset if the card holder did not authorize the transaction, then they are not liable. Though the second one is illegal if you are lying, but alas not sure many companions will put in the time and effort to prove it for the amount cc goes for. Edited February 10, 2016 by Nokodoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 You clearly dont know how to read, go look at some of the other forum posts out there. I have no time for salty trolls like you. No, I do, and I understand statistics. Everyone else is reporting 50-60% cubes. Just you, somehow, because god hates you, got 97%. A number totally not pulled out of your ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NermalDetonator Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 When I opened 10 packs I got 18 cubes, seems like 90% to me Small sample size is small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokodoko Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Small sample size is small. Sample size may be small, but even you cannot disagree that packs should not have the chance to get two cubes per pack. Many are not asking for a crazy change. 1 new packs has 100% chance to contain 1 new item from 'that' pack in one slot, and say a 40% chance that the second slot will be a chance cube. They get to keep their random nature, and people get a 100% chance at getting a new item per pack. Edited February 10, 2016 by Nokodoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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