Nighthawked Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think a damage meter does more harm than good. Some people abuse this and create websites that have the perfect "rotation" At that point it is not really a game anymore is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Dood, you responded to me, I had not quoted anyone else. Yes, implying that having it on the test server should satisfy everyone. I don't agree. I've cited 4 or 5 things recently that aren't satisfied by that, and then one example in specific directly in response to your claim. And I said exactly what you quoted, Bob doing x and Y and what people want to use the tool for. Which kicking people from groups is a large part of it.I didn't mention kicking or dead weight anywhere in there. Which is why I said that your response to it didn't seem to have anything to do with the quoted text. Pretending that I did say anything about kicking people from groups... well, on that path, the strawman argument lies. Your quote has very little specifics in it at all.Ability to gain the knowledge about what is going wrong in a fight; specifically, which players are having problems with it. Seems pretty specific to me... Edited February 16, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think a damage meter does more harm than good. Some people abuse this and create websites that have the perfect "rotation"There's really no such thing; generally there are priority systems, not perfect rotations (due to proc based abilities) At that point it is not really a game anymore is it?Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Ok, my thoughts on something like this: DPS tools for personal, "just my character I'm playing as right now" use? Sure. Some people like that - it's their thing. That's fine - who the hell am I to tell them to not play how they want? DPS tools for group use, as in, "I'm looking at the last fight, and Billy has a DPS three whole points below where he should be! Let's kick Billy, he's obviously dragging everyone down!" use? Hell no. This ties into the first one - play how you want, but don't shove your playstyle onto someone else. Yes, I can see the benefits from the OP's listed example of an extreme case - you can see who's literally just tagging along and not doing anything to help out. However, there's always the extremes, and there will also be those people who harbor a "MUST HAVE X DPS OR WILL KICK" mentality, and that's not cool. Edit: I should add that I do know of other good uses for the "tool for everyone" thing. I mean, if I saw a fellow Sentinel who was lacking in DPS, I'd try to give him a few pointers that might help him boost his numbers - and I'd do it in a nice, polite way. So there are good things about it, but... somethign I've learned from many years of internet usage is that people turn into horrible jerks online about 90% of the time. Hyperbole much? There's absolutely no situation in the world where someone would be idiotic enough to boot someone for a minuscule DPS difference. More like "Billy is doing 20% less DPS than the next lowest DPS, we should figure out why." or "Billy is lower than the tanks in DPS, this is a problem." Or would you rather Billy and his sub-tank DPS continue to be the reason you can't beat a boss' enrage timer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpholinium Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think a damage meter does more harm than good. Some people abuse this and create websites that have the perfect "rotation" At that point it is not really a game anymore is it? It's not anything one couldn't approximate from the tool tips anyway. DPS meters may make verifying things easier, but are far far more often used as epeen measuring devices and as excuses for exclusion. After all, players who are being "carried" are pretty apparent to anyone paying attention anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Yes, implying that having it on the test server should satisfy everyone. I don't agree. I've cited 4 or 5 things recently that aren't satisfied by that, and then one example in specific directly in response to your claim. I didn't mention kicking or dead weight anywhere in there. Which is why I said that your response to it didn't seem to have anything to do with the quoted text. Pretending that I did say anything about kicking people from groups... well, on that path, the strawman argument lies. Ability to gain the knowledge about what is going wrong in a fight; specifically, which players are having problems with it. Seems pretty specific to me... -nods- You quoted me, and expected me to remember all the things you were saying in the thread. Then went on about specifics, where there are none in your initial quote to me. So, I stated what I think was what people wanted to use the tool for. You have in your mind something else, but you did not express it in your quote. So stop arguing about me not being a mind reader, that has no bearing here. If you want to argue some specifics, then annotate them out for me and we can discuss them. Edit: I never stated you said people wanted to kick others, since you had no specifics, I inferred that from my knowledge of the subject. Edited February 16, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawked Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 There's really no such thing; generally there are priority systems, not perfect rotations (due to proc based abilities) Yes. Yes there is, I have looked it up on WoW. They tell you use ability X, then Y, then Z, back at X when cooldown is done, and so on.... They usually list it as Death Knight Blood Spec Damage Guide or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I would think the scoreboard idea some people are touting for after flash points and ops is a good compromise between both camps. Also i see no reasont o not add a meter / target dummy inside the guild capital ships or your personal ship, make it something you buy for ship as an addon. I personally don't care either way. I do prefer not to have to add 3rd party crap to my system that breaks every patch, i wanna play after patches, not update addons ...so my only thing is if damage parsers / meters are added, please make it part of the actual ingame UI straight from bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yes there is, I have looked it up on WoW. They tell you use ability X, then Y, then Z, back at X when cooldown is done, and so on.... They usually list it as Death Knight Blood Spec Damage Guide or something. once addons and macros are added, the priority proccing abilities get rolled into a main skill / proc skill 1 button and let the rotations begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 After all, players who are being "carried" are pretty apparent to anyone paying attention anyway. How? Are they running around in circles going "dur dur dur!" while dancing or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freekyjason Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 DPS meters are for folk too lazy to use their own brains to figure out whether their skill usage is actually funa and entertaining. instead they need a tool to tell them that they are now officially at work and no longer in a gaming world. this tool they can then use to point fingers at others who were assured they were in a game and enjoyment could ensue, only to find that no, lo and behold they are in a serious situation that needs full attention on the screen where macros and scripts and meters can tell them exactly what buttons to push at exactly what time so they dont cause others to lose their jobs. TL;DR stop being so lazy :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 DPS meters are for folk too lazy to use their own brains to figure out whether their skill usage is actually funa and entertaining. instead they need a tool to tell them that they are now officially at work and no longer in a gaming world. this tool they can then use to point fingers at others who were assured they were in a game and enjoyment could ensue, only to find that no, lo and behold they are in a serious situation that needs full attention on the screen where macros and scripts and meters can tell them exactly what buttons to push at exactly what time so they dont cause others to lose their jobs. TL;DR stop being so lazy :/ No words to describe the logical fallacies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyiss Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 That was a lot of text to justify being an unlikable twit. Damage meters have their uses, but seeing as this community can't act like adults with the limited tools they have, I'm not going to advocate giving them more ways to be childish. Yesterday I went on the Jedi Knight forums to see if anyone had built a class guide yet (I've been using one elsewhere) to see if there was consensus on proper rotation and spec, and instead I found threads about how 'If you can't magically figure it out on your own, you suck and we hate you'. Yeah I *really* want those people to have damage meters, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freekyjason Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) No words to describe the logical fallacies... lazy much? cant help you sorry. the logical fallacies you see are maybe your own inadequacies in life to actually enjoy something that is meant as ENTERTAINMENT, not a job. ( Edited February 16, 2012 by freekyjason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropicus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 /signedI want to know not only how much more effective i can be but meters will also reveal any talent bugs and class imbalances. Make it for personal use and not spammable or maybe an oPtion for the group leader to prevent their use in that group. Just give us the option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyiss Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 lazy much? cant help you sorry. the logical fallacies you see are maybe your own inadequacies in life to actually enjoy something that is meant as ENTERTAINMENT, not a job. ( Can I ask you something? If he plays the game like a job, what exactly does that have to do with you? There are literally thousands of people who would prefer to play at your pace. You never have to speak to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpholinium Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 How? Are they running around in circles going "dur dur dur!" while dancing or something? ***Disclaimer: I don't consider someone genuinely trying, but using a less than ideal build/rotation/priority system as being "carried".*** They're the ones doing nothing half the time, using the same one or two abilities every cool down and nothing else, "healing"*, stealthed in the corner the whole time, etc. Pay a little attention. It's hard to be carried without being obvious. *Just kidding, healers. Love you guys. Don't let me die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Actually, they did advertise competitive end game content. Not everyone wants to sit around and level 7 alts and watch the entire story for each one. If that's what you're doing, and you're not into endgame content, then dps meters shouldn't matter to you. If you're not raiding, then you really shouldn't care about dps meters at all because whatever you do isn't going to be hindered by them. If you are raiding, and you don't care about them, then you're more likely to be a liability on the group then an asset. Hasn't the hardest content already been beat....yes. Sorry but you lost the competition.......move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyiss Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Pay a little attention. It's hard to be carried without being obvious. In WoW, they're the ones face down in the fire ^^ Or ice, if you were there during the last expansion. They get upset when you ask why avoiding a visible, slow moving straight line is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hasn't the hardest content already been beat....yes. Sorry but you lost the competition.......move on. Yup, meters aren't needed to complete content. They are just used to make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freekyjason Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Can I ask you something? If he plays the game like a job, what exactly does that have to do with you? There are literally thousands of people who would prefer to play at your pace. You never have to speak to him. nothing at all, he just decided to call my post a logical fallacy without considering that indeed some people actually prefer to play the game for entertainment and fun value, without all the added pressure of bs meteres, and i responded. did my post offend? im sorry if so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blamminator Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My personal damage meter: 1) I hit stuff 2) A) it dies B) I die If 2-A, damage good. If 2-B damage bad. Done. The Original Damage Meter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpholinium Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yup, meters aren't needed to complete content. They are just used to make it easier. Why not go whole hog and institutes a gearscore type add on? That way your hard mode op can be even easier by excluding anyone who could actually use a drop from it before you start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaea Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I'd personally like to see how I'm doing other than "I can kill x and y in z seconds." However, I've seen the retardation damage meters can bring out in some people. I don't think I'd be playing with such people anyway, though, so I can't decide whether or not I care. The endgame is obviously not unplayable due to their absence, though. edit: oh god no not gear scoreplease no Edited February 16, 2012 by zaea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Why not go whole hog and institutes a gearscore type add on? That way your hard mode op can be even easier by excluding anyone who could actually use a drop from it before you start? I'm not really on the band wagon either way. I simply see no need for them. I equate "damage meters" with cheat codes that are prevalent in single player games. For some people they just can't play the game without them, and I understand that. Edited February 16, 2012 by Vydor_HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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