branmakmuffin Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Wow. People actually treat players Iike this in group finder? No, they treat them like that after they group up via Group Finder. Why you ask questions you already know the answer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) HM FP drop various marks of 216 gear on the bonus boss and final boss. Which is pretty the same as 216 crystal vendor gear, i.e., no set bonuses. Not trying to be rude but.. did you do your due diligence? I dont raid nearly at all due to time thats required for it which I dont really have the for any more. Due diligence? It's a game, not a multi-million dollar lease agreement. Edited February 1, 2016 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantboi Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Which is pretty the same as 216 crystal vendor gear, i.e., no set bonuses. it has good enhancements though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makillda Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I'm kind of half seriously considering trying to start a guild of know-nothings who can all get together and go through all the SM ops in chronological order, enjoying the story and trying to stay alive. That's kind of the background story for my guild on Shadowlands (previously Davik's Estate and Pot5) We liked to raid but hated try hards that made the experience *********** awful. I'm almost inclined to rebuild with that mission in mind - to form up with like-minded individuals who want to learn and don't mind wiping and a few dick jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpuds Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well to be honest, you admitted right away that you didn't really bother to look up anything to the Op. That pretty much giving the group a middle finger and say "Lol guess who you'll have to drag in this run?" Aurely the purpose of a MMORPG is to learn your role through game-play. That is learn through doing. Personally I have always found the "go learn (outside of the game) what you are supposed to do so you can learn (inside the game) what you are supposed to do" argument to be totally specious. All The Best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibegami Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) If u want to do a sm op, leave your toon name, and i will get you in a guild sm op Edited February 1, 2016 by Kibegami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Aurely the purpose of a MMORPG is to learn your role through game-play. That is learn through doing. Personally I have always found the "go learn (outside of the game) what you are supposed to do so you can learn (inside the game) what you are supposed to do" argument to be totally specious. All The Best Whilst I agree with you I've had this debate on these very forums before and so many people were defending the point that any player joining a pug/gf group for an operation run should have already read how to do the content ... just seems silly to me. Even when you get new operations/flashpoints that hardly anyone has run through but guides exist there are still people out there completely uninterested in trial and error and figuring it out for themselves and thus expect people to read that fresh new guide. Stranger still is often these people consider themselves the more "hardcore" of the community but personally I don't find anything "hardcore" about following a guide before you've even given it a go. Sure if you get stuck refer to a guide for some help but before you've even entered the instance? pfft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagboot Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 OP, your first mistake was thinking that being honest to a pug group was going to help you. No one needs to know you are a noob in Ops. Especially Story Mode. It targets you for the scape-goat upon a failure. Even if they check achievements you can claim you quit and started a new account. whatever. But seriously, join a good raiding guild that has been in game for a while. On Shadowlands my guild, "Old Timers Guild" has been in the gaming business for over 15+ years in all multiplayer games. We take in all players (age requirement tho) new, old, good, bad, even Soloer's and get them up to speed, gear and runs. Some people like to just Solo and occasionally run ops. We have weekly and weekend runs for that. Basically, OP, there ARE guilds out there that accommodate for solo players. My last dvice tho is to listen to the others that have posted here about reading/watching Operation boss tatics and gearing and be prepared if you are going to stick to pugging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therainking Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I understand your frustration and hopefully this tip I share with you will help When I first started doing OPS 4 years ago I learned very quickly to not tell anyone I was new. You sound as though you know your class well so you shouldn't have any difficulty in completing the OP. If people ask if you know the fights just say yes and I'm sure you will do fine. It worked for me and I'm a healer. I went into OPS not having watched any videos or reading any guides and no one ever knew that it was my first run. My advice, just give it a shot! Best of luck and happy gaming This. You are better off reading tactics on one or two fights well, doing as good as you can, and if you bomb just say "lag". Unfortunately, the game is full of impatient scuzz balls. The flip side is that if you cause a wipe, you know you are causing trouble only for people who couldn't be bothered to help you ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 There are quite a few guilds on Red Eclipse that are more than willing to take a new guild member through the Ops list once they hit level 65, starting at the easier ones, or even stating on some of the more challenging flashpoints to make sure you are (a) geared, which you are, and (b) that you and they know how to work together as a team. The players involved in that process know that the time they spend training/helping you is an investment in, potentially, a future member of their Ops raiding team. For the people involved in a PuG, where everyone is an unknown, the only common ground comes from everyone knowing the fights and how to clear that particular content. Without some common ground, there can be no trust in the person standing next to you (and when I talk of trust I do not mean trusting that the person will not ninja the loot and then logout... I mean trust that they know what they are doing). One member not knowing what they are doing, and the rest of the group not being totally synched as a team, added to a lack of voice communications, will often lead to several wipes and very little progress - that equates to wasted time and a potentially large repair bill. For subscribers, repair bills are not a huge issue and an evening trying/failing to do content with an inexperienced group member is just that, a wasted evening and a dent in their credit balance. For Preferred status players, who have both very limited credit balances and a requirement to buy time-limted authorizations to run Ops, both the repair bills and the wasted chance to run that Op are hassles they do not need, so dropping from the group and finding another is preferable. Saying that the OP should be able to enjoy the game on his terms is perfectly true. But the same also holds for those other players, and if they will not enjoy a large repair bill and a wasted opportunity to run content effectively, why should they run it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 That's pretty much how it works in MMOs in general: "You can't do this unless you have already done it. The rest of us had experienced guildies/friends hand-hold us through our first runs, telling us exactly where to stand and what to aggro and when, so we never really had to bother with the story or with learning things on our own. Eventually, we learned it all by rote. Yay, us." This is why I do not, will not and have not bothered with raids (other than a few in my DDO days). I want to play the story, not be care-beared through the thing. You sound scared muffin man. Scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Your best bet is to find a decent pve guild that does ops. People there will be experienced and willing to teach new players who are willing to follow instructions. Dont have any suggestions for Red Eclipse. There used to be a top raiding (but newbie friendly) guild called Aphotic, but they imploded sometime last year... Dont place your faith in group finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Which is pretty the same as 216 crystal vendor gear, i.e., no set bonuses. Set bonuses are highly overrated in my personal opinion... The real value of set bonus gear is the better stat distribution, not the bonus itself. The drops from HM FP are sometimes better stat distribution than the crystal gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Set bonuses are highly overrated in my personal opinion... The real value of set bonus gear is the better stat distribution, not the bonus itself. The drops from HM FP are sometimes better stat distribution than the crystal gear. If they only sometimes are, then they sometimes are not. In any event, all else being equal, set bonus gear is obviously superior to gear without set bonuses. You sound scared muffin man. Scared. You have an extraordinarily expansive definition of the word "scared." Or you are being sarcastic. Edited February 2, 2016 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Try KP. It should be in GF in few days. If no one takes you to KP SM group just because you have never done it before they are just idiots. TFB would be ok for your first time as well, it would be my third choice, but you could do it. Third? Never done that but I've done EC and DF (well, Brontes killed me with her death beam) instead. Is that easier than those two? Edited February 2, 2016 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-cat Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 It was TOS which from what I understand is one of the more difficult ops. I can understand people not wanting to take the time and I don't feel entitled to their help but some of the responsibility has to fall on experienced players to help newer players and I'm not even new just new to ops so I'm not nearly the disaster I could be. never kicked anyone for being new when running SM ops (also on TRE). 16 man helps for start as there 1 screwup is pretty much neglectable. sometimes operator IX, S&V city fight and draxus were a problem. i'd advise to start pugging KP, EV, S&V, TFB, DF, DP before ToS, pretty much in that order. However, as it looks like, the average pug quality is much lower now than at the time of 2.x, so the general pacience has ran short. myself, i pretty much stopped running ops with pugs, only guild runs now and then. add ninja looters to the mix and you can see why ppl don't want to invest time and resources if they only suspect there might be problems. solution: join a guild with ops activity. ask around the fleet and/or forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Try KP. It should be in GF in few days. If no one takes you to KP SM group just because you have never done it before they are just idiots. ^ Quoted for truth! Third? Never done that but I've done EC and DF (well, Brontes killed me with her death beam) instead. Is that easier than those two? Well, I think so... but it is possible that I've just done it so many times, it is just an overgrown flashpoint to me now. The second boss on DF can get people, due to how long it is and all the mechanics. But I suppose the big droid on TFB gets people too. The tanks in EC can get people, the mine field as well. Given a choice, if I'm raid lead, I'd take people to TFB before DF or EC, but that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galdos Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 OP, your first mistake was thinking that being honest to a pug group was going to help you. No one needs to know you are a noob in Ops. Especially Story Mode. It targets you for the scape-goat upon a failure. Even if they check achievements you can claim you quit and started a new account. whatever. That is weird because in my experience I see the exact opposite. If Someone says they havnt done an ops before someone immediately speaks up and says he will explain everything for them. A lot of times Ill do it but ive seen plenty of other people do it. Meanwhile, if someone attempts to fake it and ****s up (say they assign the person a job and because he hasnt done the ops he doesnt know the job and fails it) people get pissed. Half the time, even on a success, it is an immediate vote kick after the fight unless the person types quickly "sorry, first time here" in which case the response is always "you should have said something, okay here is how this place works..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelious Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Two moments, OP. 1) Doing ops by just joining GF is a bad idea. First, no telling when it pops. Second, no telling who will be there, with what gear and experience. Third, there is no Master Loot in GF formed ops, which means everyone free to roll need at anything so your chances of getting a token are really low. If you want to do ops, wait till someone starts gathering. Since you are a DPS you must learn to respond very quickly since DPS are plenty and all want to join. You may even try to gather a raid yourself, but it requires tons of patience, nerves, knowledge of bosses and classes, so i would not recommend to do it since you are new. 2)There are easier ops and then there are harder ops. TOS and ravages are the latter, Karagga palace and Eternity Vault are former. You should start doing EV and KP first. Being new and in TOS pug,,, that will not end well for you. 3) Joining guild that does ops on regular basis is a good idea. I am in such guild, with mature and helpful people, who explain tactics before fighting each boss. If you want to join, whisper me in game, I ll ask them to invite you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLynkes Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Personally, and contrary to the advice that some have given here, I don't think trying to bluff your way through an op is a very clever plan at all. Rather it is a good way to get kicked. But that's just me. The key really is finding a good guild. If you can do that, from then on it's all gravy. That's how I got into ops, and I've never looked back. With voice chat on it is so much easier to learn those things, seriously. The folks in my guild are really nice, we often take new people along on the story mode ops, and nobody minds explaining. If we scream "Spacebar! Spacebar!" in the cut scenes we are only joking. Often half the raid will be on totally ungeared alts, and will often be using EV or KP to get those last few levels quickly and gear them up. I did a couple of ops at the weekend where some of my gear was level 45, and I had Rakghoul event relics. With the bolster it doesn't matter on those easy ops. The only hard and fast rule we have is that on Eternity Vault the nearest pod on the left is for the Guild Leader's use only. Breaking that rule will get you kicked from the guild (by which I mean everyone tries to grab that pod before she can just to hear her hurrumphing in voice chat). Our guild does have a more serious raiding team, but there are always several SM group finder runs a week which are open to all guild members (and anyone is free to put their own on the calendar if they want), and the atmosphere is generally light-hearted and casual. In such an atmosphere learning to do ops is a lot of fun. My guild is on Red Eclipse as it happens. I'm not here on a recruiting drive so I won't name it. But you can always PM me if you want. Edited February 2, 2016 by PLynkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinBail Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 2-3 reactions like this are why I've decided to never do OPs. There shouldn't be required reading for a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krenzikai Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not my fault you made a cry thread on the forums. You don't want to take the time to learn some basic stuff, that's your problem. Grow some thicker skin if you can't handle a taste of reality. Yep. Community still trash. I feel pretty lucky I landed in the casual guild I'm in on Harbinger. No leetpro crap for storymodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinQCowart Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 This is why the operations player base has dwindled to the point where Bioware deems it not worth the investment. Most people are insufferable jerks in operations, you even see these kind of attitudes in flashpoints sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross_deutsch Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 OPs are ok, but yea, it really does depend on the group. I just do story-mode stuff so it isn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 This is why the operations player base has dwindled to the point where Bioware deems it not worth the investment. Most people are insufferable jerks in operations, you even see these kind of attitudes in flashpoints sometimes. I do hope the devs are paying attention to this thread, because they've already given us the solution. That last fight during SoR, they made a solo mode OP. If I'm trying to do ANYTHING in SM, the last thing I wanna do is spoil that story by watching a video. I STILL don't know how the Dread Masters storyline ends because I'm not gonna watch a video. I wanna be surprised. But if the only way to find out means I have to deal with the "spaaaacccebarrrr!", "your gear isn't uber augmented", "achievement credit report check" or "stop playing and go study how to play" attitudes and egos....then I'll never see it. So there you go....devs give us more of the solo mode OP's. (At least the ones that are directly tied into other player stories like Makeb, Dreadmasters, etc.) I don't care about set bonuses in optimized gear...I'm doing fine in this combination of 216/220 I've accumulated while building my alliance. But I would like to know how the stories end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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