Switch Advanced Classes

[Mordresh]

Just use an instant 60 token if you want to not be what you are that bad

 

I'm very confused by this sentence. What I think you are saying is that I'm bad because I don't want to level a new toon. Which this thread is not even about. (See my above post.) But more interestingly, you seem to imply that there's some skill involved in leveling.

 

Let me assure you that this game's solo content in its current state is so easy that I could have my dog level to 65 for me by smearing peanut butter on my keyboard and having him at it.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Mordresh

[PorsaLindahl]

Maybe you need to take some advice from

, and just roll another character.

 

Personally, I can't see playing 1 character that long. And I'm not criticizing your preference. But with only 1 character you're limiting yourself (ex: 3 crew skills, none of the legacy achievements/buffs from the other classes, etc.)

[PorsaLindahl]

I'm very confused by this sentence. What I think you are saying is that I'm bad because I don't want to level a new toon. Which this thread is not even about. (See my above post.) But more interestingly, you seem to imply that there's some skill involved in leveling.

 

Let me assure you that this game's solo content in its current state is so easy that I could have my dog level to 65 for me by smearing peanut butter on my keyboard and having him at it.

 

What they're saying is if you want to be another class so bad, then get a level 60 and level it.

[Mordresh]

Maybe you need to take some advice from

, and just roll another character.

 

Personally, I can't see playing 1 character that long. And I'm not criticizing your preference. But with only 1 character you're limiting yourself (ex: 3 crew skills, none of the legacy achievements/buffs from the other classes, etc.)

 

I've played through all the other class stories so I have the buffs and story achievements, hell I even have the Imperial squad commander title. But like I said above, I want to keep playing the character I'm attached to and invested almost all of my playtime time in.

[Master-Nala]

I think this is a reasonable idea and would be for it. Only because leveling is so easy now, that it doesn't really matter anymore. I don't even know why anyone is still against it.

 

Should anyone suggest I would desire to use this myself, I have at least 1 of every class at 60+ and many classes I have multiples.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Master-Nala

[Ratajack]

Why does there always have to be such a punitive counter?

 

If you look at the core mechanics behind Advanced Class it's to separate out a few of the AC core abilities from each other. The most obvious example to build on is that of the AC core healing or tanking abilities.

I mainly play Bounty Hunters (not so much for the class story, but for the facial tattoos on the humans ) and a Powertech can equip shield generators and adopt a tank stance even if they are in the Pyro/Advanced Prototype discipline. Similarly the Mercenary has access to some self heals and crowd control whether they are in the healing discipline or not.

This AC divide is in place so that a character can be a Healer OR Tank and not a hybrid.

 

However as long as that segregation is maintained there is no reason why role choice shouldn't be more flexible.

 

A classic example is the Druid in World of Warcraft. Here we have a single class that can perform Tank, Heal, MeleeDPS and RangedDPS, on the same character. Access to all four roles available to the same character at any time... why would anyone play anything else? And yet they do

 

The devs have explained that it was to separate FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS and to treat them as FULL CLASSES.

 

In addition, it was to INTENTIONALLY ensure that NO character would have access to all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. The devs did NOT want any character to be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time.

 

You keep ignoring this design intent, and say "no one will be able to heal and tank at the same time".

[Mordresh]

The devs have explained that it was to separate FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS and to treat them as FULL CLASSES.

 

In addition, it was to INTENTIONALLY ensure that NO character would have access to all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. The devs did NOT want any character to be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time.

 

You keep ignoring this design intent, and say "no one will be able to heal and tank at the same time".

 

The devs have said a lot of things. Originally the two factions were never going to share a quest, now we have KotFE. Design changes over time, hopefully this will be one of the changes.

[XiamaraSimi]

What they're saying is if you want to be another class so bad, then get a level 60 and level it.

 

This.

 

Went back and edited my original post from "bad" to "badly" to help those that dont comprehend it...

 

Again, they break numerous things just by breathing near the code

 

Having them go in and tinker with existing class coding just because people are lazy is a catastrophy waiting to happen...

 

I have 24 non insta 60 characters on jung ma alone, its stupidly easy to level characters -without- using an insta 60, let alone taking the easy route and using an insta 60.

Edited January 22, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[Mordresh]

This.

 

Went back and edited my original post from "bad" to "badly" to help those that dont comprehend it...

 

Again, they break numerous things just by breathing near the code

 

Having them go in and tinker with existing class codes just because people are lazy is a catastrophy waiting to happen...

 

I have 24 non insta 60 characters on jung ma alone, its stupidly easy to level characters without using an insta 60, let alone taking the easy route and using an insta 60.

 

Fair enough. The thing is though, like I said above, this is about me wanting to keep playing my character of 4 years but breathe some new life into him. I could easily make a new character, but I don't want a new character. I want to continue with the one I'm attached to after all this time.

[Ratajack]

The devs have said a lot of things. Originally the two factions were never going to share a quest, now we have KotFE. Design changes over time, hopefully this will be one of the changes.

 

Yes, this is an MMO and MMO's evolve over time.

 

Very few, if any, MMO's let you change your class. The AC's were designed as FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS, and were treated as FULL CLASSES.

[Mordresh]

Arguments in favour:

- We can switch to an almost new class without feeling like all our progress over the year was for nothing.

- The "Leveling is how you learn your class"-argument no longer applies, since we already have instant level 60 tokens.

- Bioware makes fat loads of cash by putting this on the Cartel market.

- Bioware doesn't need to invest in new content to keep people interested for this as the classes are already there.

- People won't lose their Alliance Companions/Titles/Achievements/Mounts/Pets/Armour.

-You'll still have your friendslist and people will still have you in theirs.

 

Cons:

- It would take up some of the development resources.

 

I updated the pros & cons in the op.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Mordresh

[Mordresh]

Very few, if any, MMO's let you change your class.

 

So what? Most MMO's don't have knockbacks, this one does. Not every MMO has to be a copy of the other.

[Vhaegrant]

You keep ignoring this design intent, and say "no one will be able to heal and tank at the same time".

 

Far from it. I accept what the design intent was during development and at launch. I just don't think that should stop consideration of future development.

 

I think forums should be a place for fans of a game to collect and discuss aspects of the game they feel could do with improvement. This could range from modifying an existing mechanic to adding new ones.

 

I think the unhealthiest stance to take in any discussion, especially with regards to an MMO that has to change to fit the marketplace, is 'That's not how it was intended at launch'.

 

I think it's quite healthy to discuss the merits of an AC swap. I've yet to see any argument that would convince me that it would actively harm the game.

 

There are many MMOs that allow players to have a full range of roles available on the same character, World of Warcraft, The Secret World, Rifts, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars to name a few of the popular ones.

There are some MMOs that handle class as a function of weapon such as Final Fantasy XIV a realm reborn, where class is as easy to swap as changing your weapon. Each class is levelled separately but that is not an argument against allowing AC swap in SWTOR just for opening up the discussion on what the limits should be (in this case it would be more of an unlock across legacy once you achieve a certain level/ unlock an Advanced Class).

[Mordresh]

I can't take you seriously if you think this would be as easy to implement as recoloring a piece of gear and you can't just pull an employee from one department and ask them to do a task that might require a different type of skill and expertise.

 

I wasn't being serious at all, I was poking fun at the thought that all the develop resources are going into super crucial parts of the game. But I guess your concern is valid, so I added it to the OP.

[Ratajack]

So what? Most MMO's don't have knockbacks, this one does. Not every MMO has to be a copy of the other.

 

I cannot speak for every MMO, but every MMO I play has knockbacks.

[Fevee]

Those of you who say "Just roll a new toon" don't get that that means abandoning the current toon; something the OP doesn't want to do. I take it the OP wants to keep their achievements, their energy credits, their irreplaceable gear and titles, their character name, all that stuff. I take it the OP simply wants to switch up between one Sub Class to the other. They're already 95% of the way there; it's not like we're asking to go from Sniper to Sentinel, here.

 

And, then the other argument is that "it'll take effort". Well, yea, but so did outfit designer, strongholds, living mounts, and whatever the makeover terminal is called. So, unless you want to specify what exactly you would prefer the devs devote their time to, don't just mindlessly chop down others' ideas.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Fevee

[TX_Angel]

Maybe you need to take some advice from

, and just roll another character.

 

Personally, I can't see playing 1 character that long. And I'm not criticizing your preference. But with only 1 character you're limiting yourself (ex: 3 crew skills, none of the legacy achievements/buffs from the other classes, etc.)

 

There is not, to the best of my knowledge, any legacy achievements/buffs from playing both sides of a AC from lvl 1...

 

I think you're mistaken here, no one is asking to change CLASS, they are asking to change ADVANCED CLASS.

 

Very different. I don't think ANYONE believes that class changes are going to happen.

[TX_Angel]

In addition, it was to INTENTIONALLY ensure that NO character would have access to all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. The devs did NOT want any character to be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time.

 

You keep ignoring this design intent, and say "no one will be able to heal and tank at the same time".

 

Lots of things that were part of the "design intent" no longer apply. Most of those devs are no longer even working at Bioware.

 

What plans were made in 2009-2010 hardly apply to 2016.

 

After all, you didn't used to get SPRINT until level 10 and SPEEDERS until level 25! Look at the size of the worlds, some of the early ones were CLEARLY not designed for speeders...

 

So frankly your point no longer holds any water... in 2016...

[TX_Angel]

Yes, this is an MMO and MMO's evolve over time.

 

Very few, if any, MMO's let you change your class. The AC's were designed as FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS, and were treated as FULL CLASSES.

 

Considering most MMOs aren't making much money, perhaps doing what "most MMOs do" is not a good business plan?

 

You have a serious chip on your shoulder on this issue for some reason. You had valid reasons in the past for not wanting it, but those reasons have largely been removed in 4.0. Frankly, there is much of a reason left to not do it.

 

I can imagine come 5.0, they might do away with advanced classes completely and let every toon be a dps, tank, or healer... just like companions... that would be a nice improvement...

[theUndead]

I think I'm not alone when I say I have a really old character that I'm kind of bored with. But looking at all the achievements and everything I've done over the years with him, the thought of starting a new character just fills me with fatigue.

 

My suggestion: Let us switch advanced classes so we can breath some new life into our old characters.

 

Arguments in favour:

- We can switch to an almost new class without feeling like all our progress over the year was for nothing.

- The "Leveling is how you learn your class"-argument no longer applies, since we already have instant level 60 tokens.

- Bioware makes fat loads of cash by putting this on the Cartel market.

- Bioware doesn't need to invest in new content to keep people interested for this as the classes are already there.

- People won't lose their Alliance Companions/Titles/Achievements/Mounts/Pets/Armour.

-You'll still have your friendslist and people will still have you in theirs.

 

Cons:

- It would take up some of the development resources.

 

Also before someone posts: "They warned you it was permanent when you picked your advanced class." I'm not debating that, I'm suggesting they change it.

 

Here is further cons.

 

They already said it's not going to happen to due to the various quest and romance flags

Next we already have the ability to purchase new 60's, so why bother adding a change option? Finally, it's really easy to level in this game, so this is unneeded.

[Ratajack]

Considering most MMOs aren't making much money, perhaps doing what "most MMOs do" is not a good business plan?

 

You have a serious chip on your shoulder on this issue for some reason. You had valid reasons in the past for not wanting it, but those reasons have largely been removed in 4.0. Frankly, there is much of a reason left to not do it.

 

I can imagine come 5.0, they might do away with advanced classes completely and let every toon be a dps, tank, or healer... just like companions... that would be a nice improvement...

 

I will continue to voice my objection to allowing class (AC's a FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS and are treated as FULL CLASSES by the devs) changes.

 

Will my voice prevent it from ever happening? Who knows?

 

As it stands now, and for the foreseeable future, if you want to play another class, you have two options. One is to level that class from level 1 and the other is to use the level 60 character creation option. I for one hope it remains this way.

[TX_Angel]

I will continue to voice my objection to allowing class (AC's a FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS and are treated as FULL CLASSES by the devs) changes.

 

And you have every right to do so...

 

I just don't see a whole lot of people supporting your viewpoint anymore... they did once, pre-4.0, and I understand why.

 

Have you considered that if the other voices on your side have gone away, perhaps it is time to look at it again yourself? I'm not saying you have to change your mind, you're entitled to any viewpoint you like, I just think that perhaps you're being... stubborn.

 

Of course, my wife says I'm stubborn about stuff too, so it isn't a crime.

[Ratajack]

And you have every right to do so...

 

I just don't see a whole lot of people supporting your viewpoint anymore... they did once, pre-4.0, and I understand why.

 

Have you considered that if the other voices on your side have gone away, perhaps it is time to look at it again yourself? I'm not saying you have to change your mind, you're entitled to any viewpoint you like, I just think that perhaps you're being... stubborn.

 

Of course, my wife says I'm stubborn about stuff too, so it isn't a crime.

 

Remember that no single character can fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. This was a conscious and deliberate design intent, and a good one, IMO. Allowing class (AC) would negate this design intent.

 

I would have less of an objection to class (AC) changes IF:

 

-a class (AC) change cost the same as an instant level 60 character

-the item to change class (AC) were ONLY available on the CM and there was NO credit option

-the item to change class (AC) was bound to legacy and could not be sold on the GTN

-the item to change class (AC) was a one time use item and did not unlock to option to change class (AC) at will

[Mordresh]

Those of you who say "Just roll a new toon" don't get that that means abandoning the current toon; something the OP doesn't want to do. I take it the OP wants to keep their achievements, their energy credits, their irreplaceable gear and titles, their character name, all that stuff. I take it the OP simply wants to switch up between one Sub Class to the other. They're already 95% of the way there; it's not like we're asking to go from Sniper to Sentinel, here.

 

Thank you for understanding what I've been trying to say.

[Strref]

As this has absolutely no effect on story, I don't see a reason not to do this.

 

My solution? Gate it with Cartel Coins. Everyone wins:

 

People like the OP who want to keep their current toon bad enough will find it worth it at the right cost.

EAware makes money off of it.

You can change your toon's species with coins and that does have story/dialogue effects (albeit minor).

 

I don't see a reason why it needs to be more difficult than this.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Strref