GSF needs love

[MaximilianPower]

Does a typical new player on the Harbinger in your experience join the channel prior to playing GSF? I really do not want the odd stuff I do, like being on the forums to impact things skewing it. My PvP entry was orders of magnitude much easier than a normal player's because of all the help/tips I was getting at the forums, and because I met someone who's actively taught me a few months into it in-game.

 

None of the following is necessarily specific to Harb, but I'll say the typical new player is likely to do one of these things:

 

1) Check out the forum before playing at all, like this guy. Note the very first response includes a comment to /cjoin gsf.

 

2) Play a little, get stomped, and then go straight to the forum with questions, like this guy. /cjoin gsf is also mentioned here in the first response.

 

3) Same as above, except the forum visit is solely to vent and berate GSF in general. This is one of my favorite examples of this type of experience; the OP started out with "screw GSF!1!1!!", got lots of help, and ultimately ended up enjoying it. There are a number of threads like these scattered across the GSF forum. Yet again, /cjoin gsf is one of the first things mentioned (by me, actually).

 

4) Play a little, get stomped, and then swear off GSF for perpetuity without seeking any help. Unfortunately, my guess is there are more of these cases than any of the others above, thanks to the difficult learning curve and awful tutorial.

 

Point is - anyone who legitimately gives GSF the "old college try" will inevitably be directed to the gsf channel. Those too frustrated to seek help won't. And most folks who really give GSF a fair shake generally end up enjoying it.

[DomiSotto]

Okay, fair points, I will cjoin after I do the tutorial and before loading the match. I want to emphasize that I am not going to self-sabotage, but I do want a real McCoy experience.

 

So you don't feel you are a regular player? You came to the forums to find out how and where to start pvp with your "A PVP a day" thread. Why would this be any different?

 

I was more motivated than a regular player, because it was the only way I could figure out to get comms for the 140 Makeb set to finish Corellia at the time, because my Gunslinger got killed there all the time. I was desperate at the time to finish my first class story. It was when they had 2x comms promotion.

Edited January 20, 2016 by DomiSotto

[branmakmuffin]

So, no answer?

So, no answer?

[Greezt]

So, no answer?

 

Sure, why not?

 

My questions were completely unrelated to on another. Maybe you thought that by asking what you do in the game I meant that there is nothing to do apart for GSF. That's not what I meant. I asked why you hate GSF so much, and as a completely separate question I'd like to know what you find enjoyable in-game.

 

Unless you meant that you do everything except GSF. If that's the case, I have some other questions.

 

As for my answer: No, you did not miss that update. There never was one that removed all content but GSF.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Sure, why not?

 

My questions were completely unrelated to on another. Maybe you thought that by asking what you do in the game I meant that there is nothing to do apart for GSF. That's not what I meant. I asked why you hate GSF so much, and as a completely separate question I'd like to know what you find enjoyable in-game.

 

Unless you meant that you do everything except GSF. If that's the case, I have some other questions.

 

As for my answer: No, you did not miss that update. There never was one that removed all content but GSF.

 

Why engage him? Best thing to do is ignore him. He never brings anything meaningful to the conversation and his posts are always inflammatory and antagonistic. Best way to deal with him is ignore him.

[TX_Angel]

Why engage him? Best thing to do is ignore him. He never brings anything meaningful to the conversation and his posts are always inflammatory and antagonistic. Best way to deal with him is ignore him.

 

And those that aren't inflammatory are passive-aggressive...

[Greezt]

Why engage him? Best thing to do is ignore him. He never brings anything meaningful to the conversation and his posts are always inflammatory and antagonistic. Best way to deal with him is ignore him.

 

I'm willing to try and understand, I guess. Worst case, this is only a forum thread.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Greezt

[MDVZ]

Okay, fair points, I will cjoin after I do the tutorial and before loading the match. I want to emphasize that I am not going to self-sabotage, but I do want a real McCoy experience.

 

I'm not sure what a real McCoy experience would be. I see that you're trying to judge GSF from the perspective of a new player, but, mate, you can't do anything but judge GSF from the perspective of a new player, because you are a new player. You'll have your new player experience, you can't have anyone elses, and I really hope you enjoy it.

Edited January 20, 2016 by MDVZ

[Stradlin]

Posting on behalf of Heizen&Irek.

Well, copypasting on their behalf more like. This is a conversation between Heizen, Irek and some dude using Steam Controller for TOR. Was originally posted in TOR's Reddit. Figured it gives interesting food for thought, certainly for those who feel they absolutely need a pad.Or for those who don¨t care what they are eating.

 

- - - -

 

I was casually lurking on /r/swtor when suddenly this wild thread has appeared! I saw the perfect opportunity to ask OP 'bout how SC works with GSF, here's the exchange:

 

Hzn: Got one very important question everybody else forgot to ask: How does it work with GSF? Mouse + Keyboard is a terrible controller for space combat simulators. I'll gladly consider gettin' myself SC, if it proves to be an efficient tool for GSF! Share your experience with me, please! ;›

 

OP: I hadn't even considered this! I'll have to do some tinkering and let you know! Since I don't have a "states" toggle like I did on my G13 gamepad, I'll just have to rebind some stuff for GSF.

 

Hzn: Much thx! I shall await your feedback! ;]

 

OP: So my first feedback is holy ****, the queues on BC for GSF are *********** ridiculous.

 

Secondly, though, I'm rather pleased with how the Controller handles! It's important to note that the thumbstick (or in my case, the D-pad) doesn't control the way the ship actually moves, since those are WASD. All of it is controlled via the mouse, which is on the right pad. It is going to take some time to get as accurate as you'll want to be to make use of your guns, but turn off trackball mode so it doesn't slide, up the sensitivity a bit, and this could work really really well!

 

Oh damn, I just thought of something. This might actually be a fantastic use of the Gyro on the controller. You can set it so that it activates on a certain modifier (commonly, "Right Pad Touch") and give it a fairly low sensitivity, and that gives you extreme precision for aiming your weapons and flight. That sounds perfect! BRB, need to test more.

 

OP: All right, /u/VonKuffel, /u/erdevs. Here's my conclusion:

 

- Controls did well in the transition from ground to GSF! Only needed a few tweaks (mostly kill engine and target cursor/attacker), and my control scheme worked very well. Strafing was easy to swap to; just hold down the left grip! But of course, strafing didn't make a huge difference.

 

- My games weren't the best example of the control scheme for the sole reason that my team got STOMPED. MASSIVELY. 6 to 1000. I could be really really good and just not be able to win that. Brutal.

I could hit what I was aiming at without much effort! I was pleased to see that, and for the following reason.

 

- The Gryo is PERFECT for GSF. I simply cannot overstate this. The Gryo on a low sensitivity in combination with the parts of the screen that actually send feedback to your ship is such a perfect combination, that precision plus full deflection is almost second nature. If anyone else has a Steam Controller, THIS is the way to play GSF. Oh my god.

 

I didn't perform terribly well, but I wasn't ever very good at GSF in the first place. The queue times have always been really bad on Bergeren Colony, so I've never gotten into it. But after this experiment, I need to roll something out on Bastion and start playing seriously. This was the most enjoyable GSF flying experience I've ever had.

 

Hzn: Excellent! I shall share this info with my fellow pilots! I get the feeling that your lil' research right here's gonna change the way we play GSF! Now, I definietly gotta lay my hands on Steam Controller! Thx again!

 

Y'know, If you wanna get into GSF fo' real, you'd be a welcome addition to Iota Squadron on Progenitor! We have some really dedicated and friendly vets in our ranks!

 

Who haz Gaben's Controller to check this out and verify results of OP's research? D:

 

~ Heizen & Irek

Edited January 21, 2016 by Stradlin

[branmakmuffin]

Unless you meant that you do everything except GSF. If that's the case, I have some other questions.

Did you really think I was going to answer your trollish question?

 

Further, if I don't do GSF, do I have to do everything else in order to enjoy the game? Are you implying that the game is divided into two main parts: GSF and "everything else?"

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by branmakmuffin

[Greezt]

Did you really think I was going to answer your trollish question?

 

Further, if I don't do GSF, do I have to do everything else in order to enjoy the game? Are you implying that the game is divided into two main parts: GSF and "everything else?"

 

 

Oh well... They were right, and I was wrong. Shame on me.

 

Where did you see me type the game was divided into "GSF" and "everything else"?

 

Never mind.

[Vhaegrant]

It's nice to hear the anecdotal stories of GSF players that prefer to throw a fight or gimp themselves to make a match result closer.

That however has not been my experience.

 

A decent solo mode training, even if it was a tunnel based time challenge like the one I linked to earlier, would at least give players a way to hone their flying/targeting skills without having to wait a ridiculous time for a queue to pop.3

 

Also if gear isn't an issue why do PvP players need it as a reward?

All gear based PvP I've seen (and GSF is no different) has the double whammy of rewarding the winners of a bout more. Apparently because you have to bribe players to participate. This means the better players accelerate away from those just starting, while the lower rewards for the losers means they take even longer to close the gear gap.

[Greezt]

It's nice to hear the anecdotal stories of GSF players that prefer to throw a fight or gimp themselves to make a match result closer.

That however has not been my experience.

 

A decent solo mode training, even if it was a tunnel based time challenge like the one I linked to earlier, would at least give players a way to hone their flying/targeting skills without having to wait a ridiculous time for a queue to pop.3

 

Also if gear isn't an issue why do PvP players need it as a reward?

All gear based PvP I've seen (and GSF is no different) has the double whammy of rewarding the winners of a bout more. Apparently because you have to bribe players to participate. This means the better players accelerate away from those just starting, while the lower rewards for the losers means they take even longer to close the gear gap.

 

A better tutorial is something we would all like.

 

Gear does make a difference, but not as much as players think. Certain upgrades do give a visible advantage (armor penetration, or the ion AoE), but most of them don't make that big a difference. The main problem is that the basic ships have trap components on them, and that they deal ridiculously bad damage. Fixing that would be better than taking away upgrades.

 

I don't see upgrades as bribes, I see them as rewards. There's nothing wrong with getting recompense for perseverance. Advancement is a major part of MMOs, so why should GSF be different?

 

Also, it would be kind of boring if you started with all ships mastered...

[phalczen]

JTL didn't have autolock. And both inputs were equally effective. I knew plenty of very good M/KB aces in SWG.

 

Because in JtL the primary weapons weren't gimballed like they are in GSF ... except for POB turrets, and there you WERE better off using a mouse to aim than your joystick

[DarkSaberMaster]

Oh well... They were right, and I was wrong. Shame on me.

 

Where did you see me type the game was divided into "GSF" and "everything else"?

 

Never mind.

 

Told you so. Now. What did we learn?

[Greezt]

Told you so. Now. What did we learn?

 

Never feed the trolls

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry

[branmakmuffin]

Oh well... They were right, and I was wrong. Shame on me.

 

Where did you see me type the game was divided into "GSF" and "everything else"?

I guess it was the same place I wrote that I hate GSF.

[Homodmitrius]

I am going to put your claims to the test.

 

I will watch that video linked a few times, go through the entire tutorial in the game, and queue for 20 GSF points (2 for win, 1 for loss), like the folks who are told to PvP for 4X.

 

Then I will come back and tell you if the community is friendly, is any different from the PvP community, how fast the pop is, and how learnable GSF is for someone with no prior experience with joysticks, aiming and twitch games.

 

So, how did it go? Share us your opinion and expirience.

[DomiSotto]

So far I have watched the video a couple of times, and read through the beginner Tutorial at Dulfy. Next I will be setting a character up by selecting a scout ship, assigning the crew and playing through the In-game tutorial until I can move, boost, stop, shoot, rekeybind the up/down strafe, and a couple of other buttons from the defaults. I will post if/when I manage to master the tutorial and try the 20 matches.

 

So far:

 

Compared to the ground PvP, the squares and circles look boring.

 

There is a sobering discussion from 6 months ago following the Tutorial on the Dulfy's site very different in mood from this thread.

 

Also, because things are character-specific in GSF, I had a hard time picking the char to start it on. I initially planned to pick my old-forgotten 1st toon to finish class story, that I also tried PvP on for the first time. But I also thought maybe good to have Conquest points on a char I PvP on. But she is level 63, and I want to play some pre-65 PvP on her and don't want GSF XP to contribute to leveling her. I would try a low-level char, but if it gets abandoned, the comms will go to waste. So, I find it hard to pick a GSF character.

Edited January 21, 2016 by DomiSotto

[AlrikFassbauer]

I don't see upgrades as bribes, I see them as rewards. There's nothing wrong with getting recompense for perseverance. Advancement is a major part of MMOs, so why should GSF be different?

 

Well, look at it like this : It's like the Matthew Effect : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_attachment

Or, in other words : The rich ones are given even more, and the poor ones get taken from.

Like PvP or GSF farming of Newbies or of generally weaker players - by players who have better skill and better gear. It is not below them to squeeze out those who are poor.

 

Well, it is like The American Dream : From low beginnings working into the top.

 

To me, that's a mere illusion, kind of a trap, made up by dark triad people to exploit others on their way up.

Like "you can become a star if you follow my rules ! Only for 10 dollars !"

 

The end result, however, is that mostly dark triad peopl end up being at the top, because they know the brst ways to get there. And they stay there, because they know how to stay in the top as well.

 

Nowadays I tend to believe that a dark triad mindset is almost an requirement to get to the top.

Edited January 21, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[IslanderRebel]

you want GSF to actually succeed?

get rid of all those ugly ships and put X-wings and tie fighters in the damn game.

Who gives a damn if it's not the right time period or not.

Make it possible to use a damn joystick and then maybe you won't have to die waiting 4 hours for a queue to pop.

BTW, I was chosen to beta test GSF and they didn't like my opinions on how fail it was.

So seeing how people beg others to "please pretty please, queue for GSF" on fleet and planets. I'm pretty sure GSF still fails.

[MDVZ]

There is a sobering discussion from 6 months ago following the Tutorial on the Dulfy's site very different in mood from this thread.

 

I would try a low-level char, but if it gets abandoned, the comms will go to waste. So, I find it hard to pick a GSF character.

 

I just skimmed through a few dozen posts of that. A hell of a lot of misinformation in there. At least a lot of the criticisms of GSF in this thread have been reasonable, and the discussion has been mostly constructive.

 

The main thing I'd like to get out of the way once and for all is the idea that 'aces' are out to farm noobs. Aces don't even want to play against new players, let alone farm them. Good players also don't want new players to have to play against them. It's demoralising, we know that, and we want them to q and practice so that GSF has the population to have more balanced, challenging matches more often, not impossible/super easy depending which side of the imbalance you q into (which, I say again, happens to absolutely everyone; even the best players q into the side that gets stomped).

 

Anyway - fleet comms are pretty limited use. They can buy some GSF cosmetic stuff (decorations, ship skins), but I think most people wait until 50 and spend them on purple ship parts, some of which sell for about 1.5 million each. That can obviously be sent to any toon. Otherwise, it's just XP, req and credits. And you can obviously transfer the credits. There's no harm (that I know of) on starting GSF on a lowbie, is what I'm saying.

 

New is a bit harder. Starting with a toon that has access to fleet already is best, then you can get the 'intro to GSF' and first daily and weekly. Maximum 8 matches later, you have enough fleet req to buy either 1 (whatever: 5000 FR) or 2 (T1 gunship and bomber: 2500 FR each) new ships and a crew member, and enough requisition for some component changes.

Edited January 21, 2016 by MDVZ

[Homodmitrius]

you want GSF to actually succeed?

get rid of all those ugly ships and put X-wings and tie fighters .

And now go to your hangar on repside, look at strike fighter section closely - you will see ships look similar to x-wings

And now go to your hangar on impside, look at scout section closely - you will see ships look similar to tie's.

I dont even speak that there are analogues for a-wing, b-wing, tie-bomber, etc...

[DomiSotto]

Starting with a toon that has access to fleet already is best, then you can get the 'intro to GSF' and first daily and weekly. Maximum 8 matches later, you have enough fleet req to buy either 1 (whatever: 5000 FR) or 2 (T1 gunship and bomber: 2500 FR each) new ships and a crew member, and enough requisition for some component changes.

 

I assumed that I can just improve the first ship, instead of buying other ones, because they will be of a different class. I want to stay on the same class. I don't really care how it looks, it's always look like a circle anyway.

 

EDIT: That's if I can get past the Tutorial, obviously. Otherwise it's moot point. I should not get ahead.

Edited January 21, 2016 by DomiSotto

[IslanderRebel]

And now go to your hangar on repside, look at strike fighter section closely - you will see ships look similar to x-wings

And now go to your hangar on impside, look at scout section closely - you will see ships look similar to tie's.

I dont even speak that there are analogues for a-wing, b-wing, tie-bomber, etc...

 

 

 

well thank you for that tidbit of info m8.

they sort of look like the real stuff .

Maybe it was all them butt ugly paint schemes they have players choose to crayola their ships with that makes me want to puke if I do even get in a GSF battle.

Maybe we can go one better m8.

Let GSF go the way of Eve Online and make 150 plus man fleets and lets go to a galaxy far, far away go have some real space battles.

Forget this kill the drones and capture Point A, B or C malarchy.

Six years of Eve online, countless 1,000 man fleet battles will do that to a person.

Minus the 20,000 drones, of course.

If you never played Eve Online, try it sometime and get into a massive fleet battle and see how much fun it is in a real space battle.

ONLY 1 bad thing about such battles: THE LAG IS deadly.

Edited January 21, 2016 by IslanderRebel