Discussion Thread: How should the devs balance healers?

[MrGoldsilver]

-Yes I know the devs will never listen to any ideas that we come up with. This is a sort of for-fun thread to see if us forum-goers can "create" a balance in all the healer specs-

 

Sorc healers right now are outperforming Operatives, and Operatives are outperforming Mercenaries in healing right now. That is a given fact we have known for a while now. If you for some reason think that all three healers are perfectly balanced, just ignore this thread.

The question is how should the devs fix this problem?

 

The way I see it, there can be two paths to achieve balance in the healing classes.

 

Option A: Buff operatives a little, and mercenaries a lot in order to bring them to the level of sorcs

 

 

OR

 

Option B: Buff mercenaries, and nerf sorcs in order to bring them to the level of operatives

 

This original post will focus on option A, since I personally believe that would be for the best to achieve balance among the healers.

 

The way I see it,

 

-Mercs should be best best at single target, and burst healing, but bad at AOE group healing

 

-Operatives should be awesome at AOE heals, but should lack heavy single target burst

 

-Sorcs should be somewhat in the middle, sort of a "Jack of all trades, but a master of none"

 

So lets get down to my proposed changes to operatives and mercenaries in order to make them balanced with sorcs.

 

 

Operatives

 

-Kolto Probe and Recuperative Nanotech both needs a buff. I can't tell you the exact amount but using the calculations done by aristrokratie:

 

Here's my calculations:

They ticked for 1362 without the RN healing buff

so that's 1362 on approximately 40k life.

Health pools were increased by 30k, that's 75%.

So our hots should be doing 2.3835 k healing per tick. Plus recup buff it'd be ~2.503k per tick.

 

If we add in our increased critchance we would get about 10% less out of that so about 2.25k but this still would be a great buff the class needs.

 

There needs to be some sort of buff to Operative's HoT's.

 

-Some healing should be moved from Kolto Injection to Surgical Probe.

 

-The initial healing for Kolto Infusion should be lowered, but the HoT part of it should be buffed.

 

-Kolto Waves suffers from the same problem that the Sorc AOE heal of fun does... No One Stays Still In Pvp So Kolto Waves should have it's duration cut in half, but it should keep the same HPS that it does now, (Maybe even a slight buff) the heals that are lost from Kolto Waves is then free to go into Kolto Probe and Recuperative Nanotech.

 

Mercenaries

 

Mercenaries right now suffer from poor heat management, and an vulnerability to being interrupted/stunned during their burst period.

 

There are two paths I see that could be taken to buffing mercenaries, but first I'll go over some changes that should be made to the class regardless.

 

-There should be an ability (Maybe add it on to the level 64 ability) that goes something like "Every time Kolto Shell critically heals a target, you gain one charge of Supercharged Gas. This can not occur more than once every 3 seconds"

 

This will allow mercs to have their burst period up sooner without relying on an expensive heal to do it for them.

 

-Kolto Boosters should be redesigned (lv 60 ability) It should be: Every time you build (or refresh) a charge of Supercharged gas, you vent 1 heat. Also the heat generated by Kolto Missile is reduced by 10, and Kolto Shell's critical chance is increased by 5%.

 

This will help with heat management.

 

-IMPORTANT: The 6 piece set bonus should also increase the duration of the utility Supercharged Defense by 4 seconds as well.

 

-Kolto Shell's heat cost should be reduced by 5

 

 

Now, as stated before, I see two paths mercs can take.

 

Option 1: Mercs gain a lot more mobility, with less cast times.

 

Option 2: Mercs gain extra passives that makes them very hard to shut down during their burst period.

 

The changes that I would suggest for each:

 

Option 1

-Every time you build a charge of supercharged gas, the active cooldown of Emergency Scan is reduced by 1 second.

 

-Kolto Missile should have it's base heat cost be 15 instead of 20 (So with the lv 60 buff, it's only 10 heat). Also it should build a charge of supercharge.

 

-Using Supercharged grants (no idea how many, probably 2) charges of Instaheal (Made up that name) which allows the next X Healing Scans to be casted while moving.

 

-The cast time of Healing Scan should be reduced by .5 seconds, so that it is only a 1.5 second cast.

 

Option 2:

 

-activating supercharge grants (Something) that absorbs the next X stuns (Lasts 8 seconds, 12 with the 6 piece set bonus). It only stops hardstuns and mezzes. This is so that the merc is harder to stun when in his 'burst period"

 

-Leaving extra space, since I ran out of ideas.

 

In Conclusion

 

Hopefully we can start an active discussion that brings in other ideas on how to balance the healing classes in this game. I do want to know how others think we should balance the classes.

 

We complain about balance all the time. It's time we put some of that energy towards attempting to fix the problem, however slim our chances are of doing so.

[aristrokratie]

I mostly agree with the changes to operatives. Cannot tell for merc because I am not creative enough to imagine how this would play but again any buffs to mercheals are welcome.

 

Though there's one problem with the opchanges:

Buffing hots is great and needed, BUT we also have to accept a nerfnto kolto waves then because in pve ot's the main aoeheal (should be hots but yeah) and would otherwise overpower us in pve.

 

So I suggest just cutting KW by one sec and by that make it lose the last tick of the channel. So instead of ticking 4x for ~1700 in 3 seconds it'd tick for 3x 1700 in 2 seconds.

 

Edit:

 

One of the major issues ops are suffering from in arenas is RN not spreading. If your teammates aren't stacked up,

because you have to spread due to class mechanics (pt tank aoe, dotspread etc.)

you won't be able to use RN effectively. Either you lose 2 targets on it or you wait until players are stacked... either way it's a BIG hpsloss.

 

Possible solutions:

-increase RN radius to 20 metres to somewhat the range wandering mend and progressive scan both have

-RN is only applied to your initial target. Also places 3 stacks stored kolto on the target. Stored kolto will fly off to an ally (preferring damaged ones) and put RN on him. Lasts 7 seconds

Edited January 15, 2016 by aristrokratie

[DariusCalera]

Bringing the other two healers up to the the level of sorcs/sages would be a terrible move.

 

Sorc/sage healers are already over performing to the point where it is almost ridiculous. They have the tools, mobility, and a resource pool that allows them to be fairly self sustaining. If they get focused, they bubble or phasewalk out. Giving the other two healers similar, but different, tools and pvp would become far more of a mess than it currently is. There should be no reason to have 3 god mode healing classes.

 

I would actually go with your Option B as being the most intelligent move.

 

Of all three healing classes, the one class that is probably the most balanced is the merc/mando. The can put up very good healing numbers when supported but can still be shut down with some effort.

 

Operative/scoundrels are a bit more self reliant than the merc/mando and the only thing I would do with them would be to drop their over all heals by about 3-4%. This would bring them down a bit closer to the merc/mando level.

 

Sorc/sages need to have a few major adjustments. First, their resource management pool need to be a lot less forgiving. Second, they need to lose some of their defenses. Either bubble would need to be redesigned to bring it down closer to the defensive CDs of the other two or they need to lose phase walk.

 

Though to be fair, I think a lot of the new teleport abilities need to be done away with.

[Ruhun]

Sorcs don't need to lose their defenses, they just need to be tweaked so every defense doesn't reset the fight.

They can heal 2 full three times while being shut down.

[MusicRider]

As a sage/sorc main (have like 6 of them) playing all specs of the class I can tell you that bringing the other two healers to the level of sorcs is bad for game balance. The solution is to nerf sorc heals that are overperforming in two areas: mobile healing (e.g. no instant aoe heal) and nerf the insane healing burst of roaming mend; for the latter there have been a gazillion proposals and any of them would be an improvement. To balance out the hps numbers for pve deliverance and/or dark heal can be reworked to provide an added hot.

[aristrokratie]

Buffing the other classes up to sage opness wouldn't be a great move, buffing them to at least compete with them in terms of hps/ burstheals is not.

 

Sorcs need to be affected by stuns. They have 3 ways to work around a stunlock. The other healers just have two.

 

The changes suggested by the op for operatives are very reasonable and necessary. Mercs need a great buff.

 

Ops' niveau is too low to be considered the ankerpoint to which mercs need to be pulled up and sorcs need to be pushed down to.

 

The best place would be sorc without phasewalk.

[aristrokratie]

Of all three healing classes, the one class that is probably the most balanced is the merc/mando. The can put up very good healing numbers when supported but can still be shut down with some effort.

Also give all classes their 30% surge back and remove guard

 

You either don't know the healers well, are trolling or one of those fotmrolling dds that are furious because an ophealer could survive their burst.

Edited January 15, 2016 by aristrokratie

[HaoZhao]

Mercs can't be balanced, period. Operatives and Sorcs can both force enemies to hard switch onto another target. Mercs can't do this, so unless you get the luckiest jet boost ever, and dump three enemies off the bridge on Makeb, your death from focus fire is inevitable.

[DomiSotto]

I think that mainly I'd like to see changes to Sorc's energy management so that an average Sorc can be shut-down by interrupting their channel/cc'ing through it, that will also make the Sorc to be careful with puddles + slight wandering mend adjustments that were mentioned before so it does not heal half of Dromund Kaas population; increase on the HoT/Surgical Probes heals on the Op to give them a chance to keep up with burst when they manage to maintain the double stack in a normal gear, and I have no opinion on mercs, as I do not play it.

 

I am very much against Operatives having AoE buffed up, because the Kolto Wave is designed for a raid that stacks on the boss in a choreographed move. Not for a warzone where people move every which way.

Edited January 15, 2016 by DomiSotto

[aristrokratie]

I think that mainly I'd like to see changes to Sorc's energy management so that an average Sorc can be shut-down by interrupting their channel/cc'ing through it, that will also make the Sorc to be careful with puddles + slight wandering mend adjustments that were mentioned before so it does not heal half of Dromund Kaas population; increase on the HoT/Surgical Probes heals on the Op to give them a chance to keep up with burst when they manage to maintain the double stack in a normal gear, and I have no opinion on mercs, as I do not play it.

 

I am very much against Operatives having AoE buffed up, because the Kolto Wave is designed for a raid that stacks on the boss in a choreographed move. Not for a warzone where people move every which way.

 

AoE buff for ops? Are you talking about the hots? I suggested to buff kolto probe and make RN heal to it's full effectiveness as a tradeoff for a nerf to kolto waves (our aoe channel).

[DomiSotto]

I don't want Kolt Waves nerfed or buffed. I'd like more pumped into HoTs and Surgical. The way I see it Kolto Waves is awesome skill for an awesome player and an awesome group that are all super aware and work in unison. I think it should stay this way. What I feel we need is the single-target healing on demand and on the run.

 

Thinking about Sorc or Merc as a burst healer, and an Operative - as an AoE healer means we pave the road to packing two healers for a warzone. Which people do not like/do not do in general.

 

Which means each healer, if we lobby for PvP specifically, needs to be able to heal single targets well. The HoTs that came from RN and the Cast Heal are great buffer heals. But the bread and butter is the double stack and surgical.

 

I want to be able to renew 2xstack with a surgical and don't get disappointed in the results.

Edited January 15, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Quarast]

I would love the stun dr to be rolled into shield cd reduction on merc for all specs, and for the healing of med probe be increased and the cost decreased. Maybe taking damage as a healer should lower cd on rocket out and make rocket out stop leaps and roots and interrupts for three seconds. Maybe supercharged gas should grant interrupt immunity while active. Probably not all those things for mercs, but maybe one or two?

[aristrokratie]

I don't want Kolt Waves nerfed or buffed. I'd like more pumped into HoTs and Surgical. The way I see it Kolto Waves is awesome skill for an awesome player and an awesome group that are all super aware and work in unison. I think it should stay this way. What I feel we need is the single-target healing on demand and on the run.

 

Thinking about Sorc or Merc as a burst healer, and an Operative - as an AoE healer means we pave the road to packing two healers for a warzone. Which people do not like/do not do in general.

 

Which means each healer, if we lobby for PvP specifically, needs to be able to heal single targets well. The HoTs that came from RN and the Cast Heal are great buffer heals. But the bread and butter is the double stack and surgical.

 

I want to be able to renew 2xstack with a surgical and don't get disappointed in the results.

 

Well, for me hots count as aoe as I usually have them active on at least 5 people (that's probably why we were misunderstanding each other slightly), but I agree that they need to heal for more. Hots plus RN plus infuision and surgical should be 85% of our healing, 10% KW and 5% injection to build TA

 

 

Actually buffing us by doing the above suggested would not require any nerfs to Waves as it does like no healing at all in pvp most of the time.

Edited January 15, 2016 by aristrokratie

[DariusCalera]

Also give all classes their 30% surge back and remove guard

 

You either don't know the healers well, are trolling or one of those fotmrolling dds that are furious because an ophealer could survive their burst.

 

Cry more about guard.

 

Anyway, the 30% surge is not needed since numerous classes are still hitting in the 25K area with just the 10%. Not all mind you, but enough of them are to justify the nerf remaining. But, this isn't about guard or the 30% surge nerf, it is about balancing the healers.

 

No one in their right mind can honestly say that mercs/mandos are on the same level as sorcs/sages or even ops/scoundrels. Bringing up the other two classes to sorc/sage level, as myself and others have pointed out, would be a huge mistake. If that was done, you could honestly remove guard and bring back the 30% surge and probably even buff it to 50% and you still would not see people dying in matches with 2 healers simply because of the amount of hps being put out.

 

However, if the other two classes are brought down to merc/mando level then things become far more balance across the board. Your guard issue, and I don't think there is one, would be lessened because the amount of healing being put out is diminished. Players would have to learn how to actually support their healer and not just number chase. Because, lets face it, very few players actually try to peal for their healer.

 

As for which class I play, I have mained a merc/mando since 1.2. I know how to use his interrupts, stuns, and knock backs to remove a guarded player from guard range and how to best use my toon to the benefit of my team. Sometimes I get to sit there and do nothing but dish out HSMs and Railshots and other times I'm running around using my stuns and knock backs to support my healer even to the point of tossing off heals to insure that they stay up.

[aristrokratie]

Cry more about guard.

 

Anyway, the 30% surge is not needed since numerous classes are still hitting in the 25K area with just the 10%. Not all mind you, but enough of them are to justify the nerf remaining. But, this isn't about guard or the 30% surge nerf, it is about balancing the healers.

 

No one in their right mind can honestly say that mercs/mandos are on the same level as sorcs/sages or even ops/scoundrels. Bringing up the other two classes to sorc/sage level, as myself and others have pointed out, would be a huge mistake. If that was done, you could honestly remove guard and bring back the 30% surge and probably even buff it to 50% and you still would not see people dying in matches with 2 healers simply because of the amount of hps being put out.

 

However, if the other two classes are brought down to merc/mando level then things become far more balance across the board. Your guard issue, and I don't think there is one, would be lessened because the amount of healing being put out is diminished. Players would have to learn how to actually support their healer and not just number chase. Because, lets face it, very few players actually try to peal for their healer.

 

As for which class I play, I have mained a merc/mando since 1.2. I know how to use his interrupts, stuns, and knock backs to remove a guarded player from guard range and how to best use my toon to the benefit of my team. Sometimes I get to sit there and do nothing but dish out HSMs and Railshots and other times I'm running around using my stuns and knock backs to support my healer even to the point of tossing off heals to insure that they stay up.

 

Lol.

Sorry the next time I will put it in brackets and add a note''WATCH OUT I AM TROLLING''

Removing guard and buffing surge back up is an equally reatrded idea just like considering mandos the healer standard. If sorcs and ops were nerfed to their level you can be sure that the meta will be pure tanky dps (buff those spanktanks btw!) as healers are not needed anymore as they can hardly neglect the damage of one single damage dealer.

The optimium healing power is somewhere between ops and sorcs, not on the bottom of uselessness.

[DomiSotto]

Well, for me hots count as aoe as I usually have them active on at least 5 people (that's probably why we were misunderstanding each other slightly), but I agree that they need to heal for more. Hots plus RN plus infuision and surgical should be 85% of our healing, 10% KW and 5% injection to build TA

 

RN is an AoE HoT - it is cast once, but applies to multiple targets within the Area of Effect (AoE). The Probes and Infusion us a single target HoT, no matter how many people you keep them on. One cast = one person benefits.

Edited January 15, 2016 by DomiSotto

[alexsamma]

Lol.

Sorry the next time I will put it in brackets and add a note''WATCH OUT I AM TROLLING''

Removing guard and buffing surge back up is an equally reatrded idea just like considering mandos the healer standard. If sorcs and ops were nerfed to their level you can be sure that the meta will be pure tanky dps (buff those spanktanks btw!) as healers are not needed anymore as they can hardly neglect the damage of one single damage dealer.

The optimium healing power is somewhere between ops and sorcs, not on the bottom of uselessness.

 

Sorc healer so OP!

 

Every sage is an un-killable tank/healer/dps hybrid!

 

If only there was a way for dps to kill this class that requires no skill to play and makes even a total scrub an immortal god...

 

Won't even touch fours where even a novice team can spike someone down to 5-10% of their hp pool with a single stun on the tank...

Edited January 15, 2016 by alexsamma

[DariusCalera]

Lol.

Sorry the next time I will put it in brackets and add a note''WATCH OUT I AM TROLLING''

Removing guard and buffing surge back up is an equally reatrded idea just like considering mandos the healer standard. If sorcs and ops were nerfed to their level you can be sure that the meta will be pure tanky dps (buff those spanktanks btw!) as healers are not needed anymore as they can hardly neglect the damage of one single damage dealer.

The optimium healing power is somewhere between ops and sorcs, not on the bottom of uselessness.

 

Merc/mando healers can most certainly negate the dps of a single damage dealer they can even do it against 2-3 damage if the merc/mando knows what they're doing and if they're receiving support from their team. They can't do it as well as OPs/Scoundrels and most certainly not on the level of sorcs/sages but they can do it.

 

Yes, the meta would shift if the other two classes were brought down to merc/mando levels but then again, buffing the other two healing classes up to the level of sorc/sages is going to change the meta anyway.

[LordKitana]

Merc isnt that hard i outheal operatives all the time . It depends on the person i guess but as for ops they need stim boost to gove them 6sec immunity for casting heals . Mercs get the immune sheild plus overrides and slrcs have polarity shift . Operatives need stim boost to do something other then a defensive right nkw thats the only thing that sucks . Rest are fine .