Gear Rewards from Eternal Championship

[Count_Mario]

One idea I would also like to throw in are alternative rewards for Arena Tokens. I don't need them for gear, so I wouldn't grind them, but I would certainly love to be able to buy other stuff with them, like new legacy gear, weapons, mounts or even titles.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Sub standard raiding gear lol.

 

Come on, some of you guys have to be casuals. I refuse to believe that so many players are completely out of touch with what motivates casuals to participate in content.

 

It will be viewed that way considering crystal gear is better and arguably easier to get I would be questioning why someone would be full geared in this gear ... almost implies they've not tried to do any of the end game ( tacticals/hm/heroics ) content and jumped straight into the operations.

 

This will be worse still if they don't tune it right ( companions being a HUGE factor in that plus their influence level ) and the gear is just too simple to get and people don't really learn anything.

Things will get worse instead of better and this content still won't be worth repeating for the majority of players.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Look, the idea was to entice CASUALS to use this system IMO. This is an introduction to group content and learning to use abilities properly.

 

It needs to appeal to casual players, the first stages existing as an ALTERNATIVE to the long and tedious H2+ grind to get proper gear (208), even if it is unmoddable.

 

.

 

208 gear is hardly much of a grind to get your hands on, it's practically gifted to you just for having fun playing the end game. Unless of course you like none of the end game content in which case this isn't going to help with that.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

One idea I would also like to throw in are alternative rewards for Arena Tokens. I don't need them for gear, so I wouldn't grind them, but I would certainly love to be able to buy other stuff with them, like new legacy gear, weapons, mounts or even titles.

 

Tbh I hate the idea of running something just for vanity crap, this isn't an event and I feel there does need to be something worthwhile to long term character progression.

 

If not higher end gear then things like crafting mats such as DMC & Strategic Resource Matrix, even credit boxes would be a nice thing to add to the vendor to give it that replayability.

[JennyCharmers]

208 gear is hardly much of a grind to get your hands on, it's practically gifted to you just for having fun playing the end game. Unless of course you like none of the end game content in which case this isn't going to help with that.

 

After leveling many alts in different ways since 4.0, this statement does not make any sense?

Every one of my alts has had very close to the cap or were capped at the 1000 crystal limit by the time they hit 65.

Gear drops from heroics and not having to gear companions means I don't use them anymore while leveling, and tact fps start giving 208 pieces at 61 onwards, so having a full set when you hit 65 is pretty well a given for me.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

After leveling many alts in different ways since 4.0, this statement does not make any sense?

Every one of my alts has had very close to the cap or were capped at the 1000 crystal limit by the time they hit 65.

Gear drops from heroics and not having to gear companions means I don't use them anymore while leveling, and tact fps start giving 208 pieces at 61 onwards, so having a full set when you hit 65 is pretty well a given for me.

 

Well I only have current end game content to go off and I was responding a poster who seemed to think getting 208 was grindy and possibly even difficult but you've helped prove my point even more ... 208 gear is most certainly not a grind to get and definitely not difficult.

[Ramalina]

So the gear rewards are going to be, underwhelming.

 

I guess that's ok for a tutorial mode, especially if the encounters are interesting.

 

So if you want replay value for the people who regard the gear rewards as, "vendor crap and vendor crap tokens," I have a suggestion that may provide replay value even after titles, mounts, and pets have been cleaned out.

 

Leaderboards and a character history scoreboard similar to what's in the Hangar for GSF.

 

Break it down by advanced class and specialization, but also have an overall.

 

Fastest clear, highest dps, highest damage, highest HPS, highest healing, number of interrupts, that sort of thing.

 

Whether you're trying for a personal best, a server best, or global best, having performance stats to compare and improve upon can be a powerful incentive. Sure, most of the time it's mostly about epeen, but classic arcade and console games were often as much about beating your own previous high score as anything else when it came to "rewards."

 

Also having this sort of thing might have recordkeeping commonality with tiers of legacy achievements for the achievement hunters.

[SootyTX]

Look, the idea was to entice CASUALS to use this system IMO. This is an introduction to group content and learning to use abilities properly.

 

It needs to appeal to casual players, the first stages existing as an ALTERNATIVE to the long and tedious H2+ grind to get proper gear (208), even if it is unmoddable.

 

<snip>

 

IMO EC is probably not designed to appeal to hardcore players, but instead probably focuses on casual appeal, and I feel the suggested rewards do not appeal enough to the current casual player.

 

I think you are getting stuck on a definition of 'casuals' that doesn't match the devs' stated intent. EC has been clearly stated as being a transitioning point for players that haven't done high level group content much or at all, I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. I'm not objecting to it because it won;t be useful or helpful to ME, I'm objecting to it because it won't do what the devs seem to want it to do, based off my experience in SWTOR since launch and over 15 years experience as a raider at all levels in many games.

 

The content part appears fine on paper, and we can't judge until we see how it plays out. But the rewards, especially the use of low ilevel static gear, is nonsensical. I spent a bunch of time yesterday and today inspecting players on Odessen that were calling in general for help with heroic SF, especially those that made it clear they were going in for the first time - they were almost all in complete or almost complete 208 or 204 PvP gear already. I couldn't even give away level 200 static gear. The level 208 drops I get from soloing heroic SFs sell for a pittance. Players don't want even more pointless 208 gear that will simply be a waste of money to do anything with (i.e. augment).

 

Almost no-one that is thinking about going into ops is going to be interested in 208 or lower gear, they will already have it. Players that are fearful of getting into group content (and there are many that are due to the somewhat unforgiving nature of some players) are also going to want to be overgeared for anything, just so they won't worry about being picked on for being 'noobs' before it even starts. If it says lowest is 208, they'll want 216 just for the buffer it provides them.

 

And that last point is actually even more important as I think about it - I can already see pug leaders refusing to take people that are in 'EC static noob gear' just because it makes an easy identifier of a player that probably doesn't have much or any experience. Will that happen a lot? Probably not. But why encourage it at all?

 

Using shells and mods instead of static gear provides so much more flexibility, both for players and for the devs. It begins the important lessons about optimizing gear for people that want to get into the harder endgame content. it provides for far more replayability of EC itself. And it doesn't hurt anyone in doing so.

Edited January 25, 2016 by SootyTX

[JennyCharmers]

Well I only have current end game content to go off and I was responding a poster who seemed to think getting 208 was grindy and possibly even difficult but you've helped prove my point even more ... 208 gear is most certainly not a grind to get and definitely not difficult.

 

I understand now, sorry for the confusion, I didn't understand the context.

And yes, I agree with your statements.

[DayneDrak]

The only thing I don't like about this is that I'm already hard pressed to spend glowing crystals on anything and would like something besides vendor gear to sell for credits.

 

Guess that's better suited for a patch thread, though.

 

Uhm, pretty sure Exotic isotopes from the Vendor in Odessen will net more than vendoring gear, especially since the gear costs at least 4 times that of an Exotic Isotope

[Eurydemus]

I get the feeling this Eternal Championship feature - and its corresponding rewards system - was conceived and constructed with non-subscribers in mind. This isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong. However, apart from content that will likely be burnt through quickly - or ignored altogether - there's not a lot to be excited about for subscribers.

 

The pay-to-play folks already have access to moddable 208s from vendors at level cap without having to set foot in a FP or OP. And it's all paid for with Common Data Crystals that drop like candy from Heroic missions done whilst leveling. What use would we have for static stat equipment? The BoL thing is alright, I suppose, but then again we can already remove hilts, barrels, and the like from moddable vendor items, slot them into legacy gear, and mail it all to alts.

 

How about throwing your subscribers a bone? It won't be the most popular opinion here, but rewarding players who overcome the Championship at its greatest difficulty with a single SM set token each week would, in my opinion, be a good start. Anything, really, other than gear most subscribers neither need nor want.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Eurydemus

[BrianDavion]

I get the feeling this Eternal Championship feature - and its corresponding rewards system - was conceived and constructed with non-subscribers in mind. This isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong. However, apart from content that will likely be burnt through quickly - or ignored altogether - there's not a lot to be excited about for subscribers.

 

The pay-to-play folks already have access to moddable 208s from vendors at level cap without having to set foot in a FP or OP. And it's all paid for with Common Data Crystals that drop like candy from Heroic missions done whilst leveling. What use would we have for static stat equipment? The BoL thing is alright, I suppose, but then again we can already remove hilts, barrels, and the like from moddable vendor items, slot them into legacy gear, and mail it all to alts.

 

How about throwing your subscribers a bone? It won't be the most popular opinion here, but rewarding players who overcome the Championship at its greatest difficulty with a single SM set token each week would, in my opinion, be a good start. Anything, really, other than gear most subscribers neither need nor want.

 

the problem with this being for F2Ps is to play through the EC you're going to have to be a subscriber (unless they allow people to buy KOTFE ala cart) so everyone who plays the EC is a subscriber

[Eurydemus]

the problem with this being for F2Ps is to play through the EC you're going to have to be a subscriber (unless they allow people to buy KOTFE ala cart) so everyone who plays the EC is a subscriber

 

Good point, though I'm hazarding a guess it's more of an enticement to be a regular subscriber rather than a one-off type deal (i.e. one month for the expansion(s) and Preferred status). I brought up F2P/Preferred largely due to the crazy number of restrictions both account types have versus an actual subscription. This Championship seems like it's a way to let non-paying players advance a bit quicker in terms of gear - which is great - but it also leaves little incentive for subs to actively participate in the long term and that's my gripe. This can be a win-win thing where both F2P/Preferred and subscribers can benefit.

 

But, conspiratorial talk aside, the rewards are still rather lacklustre for a lot of people no matter how you look at it.

[Nkya]

The championship looks interesting but the reward might discourage gear augmentations.

Couldn't the tokens be traded against 1 mod (not necessary optimized) or even 1 augments, as an alternative to the planed legacy static gear?

[justik-forn]

The ratings on the gear are too low to provide any incentive to repeat the content. The lowest should be 208 and the hardest content should provide gear better than 216. I don't need another way to get 208/216 gear. I would like a way to get something better (as a solo player).

 

Static gear doesn't make sense to me. Alliance crates drop orange gear but soloists (the apparent target player base for EC) cannot get level appropriate item modifications to put into it from playing solo content (except for pulling them out of data crystal gear). I have plenty of orange gear I'd like to use if only I had something to put into it.

 

Please give us a way to customize the appearance of the new companions.

 

Also, since I don't post much, I'll use this opportunity to state again (though it's off topic) how WRONG it is for BW to withhold the "One for All" achievement even though I completed it. To be denied the achievement after working so hard to complete it, spending so much time and effort to complete it, is grossly unfair and not what I expect from a game I PAY a subscription for.

[Keypek]

Yay, more faceroll content with limited to no replay ability.

[phalczen]

Making the EC basically a tutorial for new players at End-Game is, I feel, a slap in the face to all your veteran players.

 

I don't believe that teaching players relatively inexperienced at end game mechanics and incentivizing even hard core raiders to try the eternal championship are mutually exclusive. The tenth round seems to be intended to be a significant challenge for the solo player+ comp. The question of whether the final few rounds' worth of rewards is appealing to any operations player is different than whether earlier rounds could be structured in such a way as to teach mechanics.

 

Bounty Contract henchmen are not terribly challenging, but the encounters are certainly easier if you interrupt, get out of red circles, watch cast bars, and deal with adds. These prepare you for the Kingpins, where some of those considerations are much more important (like the noblewoman's son Claw, the Alderaan kingpin). Now, I haven't done much bounty stuff since 4.0 came out so these things may not be as challenging as they once were. However, the fact remains that however limited, however brief, those missions constitute a progression, and I see no reason why EC can't have a progression nature to it while being educational, challenging, and worthwhile. My ideal version of the EC would have all three of those things with an interesting story. Whether that ideal is achievable is another story, but that's why we're providing feedback.

[IanArgent]

The main challenge I have with kingpins is taking the low-level-planet ones in alive. I accidentally killed the Hutta one, and all the folks hanging around one of the other ones I went after killed him before I could toss the carbo grenade. I don't think I'll have this issue with Nar Shadaa on up (unless everyone hanging around gets "helpful.") Luckily/unluckily, the only ones I have to bring in alive are on lower-level planets.

[gabigool]

If the goal of this is to give solo players a sense of understanding fundamentals of actual gameplay, I think the outlined format is fine, and the gear rewards are fine as well.

 

I might do it once simply to see it but I wouldn't expect to get anything useful from it as a reward.

 

This isn't aimed at players who regularly engage in Operations and as such the rewards do not need to even be in the same ballpark.

 

The rewards are, objectively, fine. I think some of the annoyance is when comparing the rewards to other, far too easily obtained ilvl 216/220/224 gear.

 

The problem is how THAT gear is obtained. The rewards as described by Steve seem to be on the mark.

 

I'd put him in charge of more stuff, TBH.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Am I the only one who wasn't asleep the past three months? The casuals made it loud and clear they don't want group content and that they have no interest in ops/fps. So why worry about gearing them up or try to entice them to do group content?

[LordArtemis]

Ok, a few people commented on my post regarding what drives casuals (from my perspective, which is not the only perspective or even the correct one naturally), so I figured I would clarify.

 

First, my suggestion reprinted....

 

5 encounters - 208 non-moddable Prototype gear, Alliance packs, random material packs.

7 encounters - 216 non-moddable Artifact gear, random Cartel certs, level 6 companion gifts.

10 encounters - 220 non-moddable Artifact gear, 25 Cartel Coins, 5 Exotic Isotope Stabilizer and 1 Strategic Resource Matrix

 

All three should be a source for weapon/offhand drops IMO.

 

Although the bonus items that Bioware is suggesting for EC are not necessarily bad, I think this would have provided a better carrot than what they propose.

 

If they wish to reward titles, I think offering these titles would be best.

 

Titles

These titles would only be available to use once you hit level 50. Some would have dark or light side requirements. The one use items would act like any other titles sold in the market. Some titles are available as class story or achievement items, but this would provide the titles to those that can not gain them based on game circumstances and/or choices (such as a dark alignment jedi that wishes to carry the darth title, or a level 60 instant character).

 

Prefixes: Master, Darth, Lord, Moff, Grand Moff, Sergeant, Lieutenant, Commander, Captain, Major, General, Admiral

Suffixes: Dark Lord of the Sith, Master Jedi, Mandalorian, Imperial Fleet Commander, Republic Defense Forces

 

 

Now, some folks mentioned the lack of a grind to create a pool of common crystals because class story provides a rather large amount. But I would still contend that is an example of a lack of understanding when it comes to casual behavior.

 

Casuals are most likely no longer using mods. The reasons would be that you have the appearance system now, so mods are no longer required, and with level sync, generally speaking, greens and blues are acceptable to level.

 

So that is a good point........however, do casuals use crystals, once they hit the max, to buy gear on the vendors?

 

I contend no. Not the mainstream casual. Instead, they use the crystals to buy companion gifts. They burn through all of them, and then some.

 

I contend the average casual in this game has a few traits...

 

1) They generally do not group, or do so on rare occasions.

2) They rarely wear BIS gear. Gear is either dropped or CM moddable gear in most cases.

3) They do not purchase end game (208 or better) gear from vendors.

4) They USED to use comms to buy vendor mods, now they use "crystals" (ugh) to buy companion gifts.

 

So, I contend that at level 65, with even KotFE completed, they have 190 gear, no common crystals (but are reaching the cap on glowing crystals) and no moddable gear at all that they are wearing as main gear. They likely have next to no radiant crystals to speak of. They probably have one companion at around 20 or 30 influence, others around 5 to 10. All common crystals were likely burned up in an attempt to level up one companion to try and restore 4.0 companion performance.

 

This is how I see the state of most casuals coming into EC.

 

Is the gear available? Sure. Do they likely purchase any of it? Not likely IMO.

 

That is why non moddable 208, 216 and 220, IMO, is the best thing to offer AS DROPS in EC. This is right in line with the state of average casuals in this game IMO, and gives them a reasonable state of preparation for end game content, especially with the 7-10 EC tier that requires group play.

 

So there you have it...that is the reason I suggest non-moddable gear as drops for EC to entice casuals.

[BrianDavion]

non moddable weapons are, yet again a waste. many of us, casuals included, have spent good money on weapons in the CM, unless costume designer is updated to support weapons, it is important to allow these to be USED

[LordArtemis]

non moddable weapons are, yet again a waste. many of us, casuals included, have spent good money on weapons in the CM, unless costume designer is updated to support weapons, it is important to allow these to be USED

 

A new tier of crafted mods is coming apparently. I am not sure what level, but I expect they will likely be higher than the current max vendor mods, like it was originally.

[Joefjr]

A new tier of crafted mods is coming apparently. I am not sure what level, but I expect they will likely be higher than the current max vendor mods, like it was originally.

 

It will be 212.

[SootyTX]

So, I contend that at level 65, with even KotFE completed, they have 190 gear, no common crystals (but are reaching the cap on glowing crystals) and no moddable gear at all that they are wearing as main gear. They likely have next to no radiant crystals to speak of. They probably have one companion at around 20 or 30 influence, others around 5 to 10. All common crystals were likely burned up in an attempt to level up one companion to try and restore 4.0 companion performance.

 

This is how I see the state of most casuals coming into EC.

 

Is the gear available? Sure. Do they likely purchase any of it? Not likely IMO.

 

That is why non moddable 208, 216 and 220, IMO, is the best thing to offer AS DROPS in EC. This is right in line with the state of average casuals in this game IMO, and gives them a reasonable state of preparation for end game content, especially with the 7-10 EC tier that requires group play.

 

So there you have it...that is the reason I suggest non-moddable gear as drops for EC to entice casuals.

 

The problem I have with your contention is that it simply an assumption. There is no evidence whatsoever for what you say about how your definition of casuals spends crystals, or even that your definition of casuals is even commonplace. Are there players that spend all their crystals on companion gifts? Of course. But even a cursory examination of players on Odessen showed me that 190 gear is extremely rare, even among people that are clearly not seasoned veterans. You definition of casual is certainly accurate for some subset of players - I just don't believe those players will ever have any interest in doing harder group content.

 

It also does nothing to counter my second point - that providing static gear is the wrong way to begin teaching people about getting into harder group content due to both augmenting and optimizing.

 

If I was a new player and did EC to get gear to go start going into ops, spent a ton of money buying augmentation kits for it and augmenting it, only to replace it all within week, I would be both pissed off and highly unlikely to want to do it again. You need to think about the psychology going on here.

 

Similarly with optimizing. The gear is already stated as being sub-optimal, same as crystal bought gear. But its a step backwards. Cystal gear at least gets players to look at how an item is broken down so when they hear concepts within a raid environment about swapping out one enhancement type for another they can understand what is being said. I have regularly in the past helped players out with starting into raids, how different stats work and how different ACs and even disciplines benefit best from different combinations of numbers - if the first thing I have to say is "well, first you need to dump that static gear and get moddable gear before we can even start talking about stats..." I can imagine most players trying to learn would be pretty pissed off.

 

Static gear is a surface level response to a much more in-depth problem. I'm sure there will be some initial success with EC simply due to players being drawn to the bigger numbers. If the design intent is to provide something for players to do just for fun and to get some gear in a different way than they do currently, that's fine I guess. But it won't do what they have stated multiple times that they want it to do, which means it will be a failure of both design and execution.