Master loot drama is out of control

[FlyinSpaghetti]

It seems to me ever since 4.0 it seems all the degenerates have come crawling out of the woodwork, with the priority weekly especially you'll often find 1 in 3 groups will have the leader abscond with all the loot from the last boss where before it was something like 1 in 30 or even rarer than that. General chat is now filled with "beware x is a ninja" and this is literally the first thing I noticed since logging back into the game since mid November.

 

And if it's not plain running off with the loot, it's other drama like people making up loot rules as they go along or people demanding rerolls when they were too far from the loot and people reserving items half way through a raid. This just creates an atmosphere of toxicity and vileness between players that are supposed to be working together.

 

IMO master looter should never be used in the public environment in this way and should be kept for closed groups like guild runs however due to round robin not imposing any limits on loot distribution ML is sort of the better of both evils. I mean you got a choice of rolling on 4 bosses and having the leader run off with the 5th or someone technically winning every need roll with round robin.

 

What I think this game needs for public groups is a new loot rule mode like round robin but with it's own suicide list so if you win a need roll the need button gets grayed out and can't be used again.

[LafforCry]

I like that. Especially as last night the Op leader absconded with all loot at the last boss at the end of EVHM.

[RikuvonDrake]

Always ask the leader to clearly state the loot rules before you engage the first boss if you are having master looter, if he does and then does the opposite of what he says (for example he says you roll on each item and then he just runs away at the last boss or gives it to himself although someone rolled higher), CS can take action. It's not common that people ask the leader before the raid but PLEASE, start doing it cause CS can then sort out the missing or stolen loot for your group as they handle your ticket.

 

At least they used to do this, I haven't had this issue in ~years cause I don't run pugs, but they have taken action before for me in cases like this.

Edited January 13, 2016 by RikuvonDrake

[Jedi_riches]

maybe have default loot rules as a new group but have it so that it requires a vote to change,

 

Though there again that could still be open to exploiting as:

 

1) if its mostly a guild run then the group would automatically vote for their group leader

2) People may kick players who dont vote yes.

3) It would not help "replacements" to the group if the loot type has already been "agreed"

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Always ask the leader to clearly state the loot rules before you engage the first boss if you are having master looter, if he does and then does the opposite of what he says (for example he says you roll on each item and then he just runs away at the last boss or gives it to himself although someone rolled higher), CS can take action. It's not common that people ask the leader before the raid but PLEASE, start doing it cause CS can then sort out the missing or stolen loot for your group as they handle your ticket.

 

At least they used to do this, I haven't had this issue in ~years cause I don't run pugs, but they have taken action before for me in cases like this.

 

I'm pretty sure that CS can't get involved loot arguments unless it's a bug that's been exploited, ninja looting is not an exploit and not against the rules it's just one of those petty downsides that come with this sort of loot system.

 

If they did start banning/removing gear from every player that had been reported a ninja I don't think there would be anyone left.

 

Also I'd say bioware would be much better off developing a fairer loot system for pugs rather than having to deal with the thousands of CS reports from every player with a loot dispute when CS is already stretched to it's max.

[ebikenebi]

Or just turn off ability to change loot rooles in combat.

[FlyinSpaghetti]

Or just turn off ability to change loot rooles in combat.

 

The big problem is people using ML to take all the loot from the last boss but the reason why ML is being used in the first place is for fairer distribution of loot than round robin can provide. With round robin you might not have someone take the loot for themselves and drop, but you do have people pressing need on everything and can walk away with most set pieces while others leave with nothing.

 

Round robin is much worse than someone ninja'ing last boss with ML due to this because at least the first 4 bosses can have loot distributed sort of fairly with ML.

 

What we need is a better round robin mode so master looter is kept for groups that trust each other and not randoms.

Edited January 13, 2016 by FlyinSpaghetti

[Jerba]

I still believe in the raiding community. My guild makes sure that none of our members are ninja looters, and players know that if someone from our guild organizes a raid, the raid leader won't run off with the loot.

On my server, the ninjaing situation is not nearly as bad as on the US servers so please don't assume that every player is affected as much as you are by this.

 

Collecting all pieces and rolling at the end is best IMO because the best pieces always drop at the end and if someone gets the belt, bracers or implant from the first boss, he'll be locked from rolling on those later pieces.

Unless they introduce a personal loot setting like in WoW, I am perfectly fine with Master Looter. IMO, it's the player's responsibility to pick groups that have no ninja looter.

 

Always ask the leader to clearly state the loot rules before you engage the first boss if you are having master looter, if he does and then does the opposite of what he says (for example he says you roll on each item and then he just runs away at the last boss or gives it to himself although someone rolled higher), CS can take action. It's not common that people ask the leader before the raid but PLEASE, start doing it cause CS can then sort out the missing or stolen loot for your group as they handle your ticket.

 

At least they used to do this, I haven't had this issue in ~years cause I don't run pugs, but they have taken action before for me in cases like this.

No, BioWare has never done this. Their policy is that if Master Looter is set, it is completely up to the Master Looter to distribute loot however he sees fit.

You may be confusing it with Blizzard, they did this a few years ago in WoW but now that they have Personal Loot, they no longer do it because PuG groups no longer use Master Looter.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Jerba

[Percilator]

You may be confusing it with Blizzard.....

 

Funny how Blizzard customer service actually seems to give a damn about the people playing their game. They actually take action to make people happy, and set things right in this type of situation. Quick human responses to tickets that actually help to fix your problem, like they actually have more than one person in the CS department or something.

 

It's still clearly stated in the WoW help menu that if loot rules were agreed on beforehand and not followed by the master looter, they can and will take action.

 

I know EA doesn't think a game can last more than a few years, because none of theirs ever have, I just wish they'd realize what they have here (the only Star Wars MMO) and how popular it could be. They aren't losing players because the game is old, or because people are losing interest in Star Wars, they lose players because stuff like this happens and they don't care (though this is just one issue among many that they don't care about).

 

Now, while I'd much rather be playing a Star Wars MMO, I'm gonna go play some WoW.

[BlueShiftRecall]

It seems to me ever since 4.0 it seems all the degenerates have come crawling out of the woodwork, with the priority weekly especially you'll often find 1 in 3 groups will have the leader abscond with all the loot from the last boss where before it was something like 1 in 30 or even rarer than that. General chat is now filled with "beware x is a ninja" and this is literally the first thing I noticed since logging back into the game since mid November.

 

Not sure which server you're on but I can agree completely with this statement in regards to Harbinger, in all honesty before 4.0 (what I noticed myself) it was very rare I would hear that someone would steal loot with master looter. I've seen guilds (whom shall not be named) that I always thought had good reputations suddenly being classified as cheats who steal loot on general fleet chat or even here on the official forums. It's a sad state but I would not recommend anyone do any PUG HM's (it's even getting to the point where I've heard of ML ninja'ing on last boss SM's but that's another story) unless you're in a good guild that you trust.

 

Sometimes I think PUG ML's start with good intentions but then on a last HM boss they just can't help themselves when good gear drops and they get greedy, greed makes people do stupid stupid things.

Edited January 13, 2016 by BlueShiftRecall

[Shwarzchild]

Master looter is what I use currently. I think when I plainly state that I'm going to collect the gear and dark matters and after we either get close to the time limit on the bind or down the last boss I ask people to roll. Highest roll goes first and we make our way down the list until everything is gone. If someone wants to pick a dmc they can. Then I have single rolls for decorations. Mk2s I just ask if people want them and if there aren't two people I just give it straight to them. Random out the exotic isotopes and people seem very happy with the distributions. One pug whispered me and said he was definitely worried but he was really glad to have stuck in. He got his first clear on commanders got a dmc and got 224 gloves. Pretty good night for him. I know there are ninjas but I hope my story helps some see that master looter can be used in a really good way.

[auroroavalor]

The issue isn't ML so much as a combination of there being too much loot in HL HM's (220's and 224's) combined with the value of DMC's.

 

What I mean is rolling on 224's, 220's and a DMC after each boss really bogs down the raid, so it's quite common to see ML only roll 224's and hold DMC's and 220's til the end, but come EV they're sitting on 5 220's, 5 DMC's and a 224 MH, it's not surprising people on the internet would cut and run.

[iusCogens]

Not to mention that HM EV and KP are easier than SM Ravagers or ToS or EC. It's easy to get to the end of the run and even easier to run away with the loot. I've been pugging in Harbinger and haven't seen a ninja, but if you want to play it safe stick to guild run or lead the ops yourself.

[JouerTue]

don't pug those EV/KP.

every kind of bad, ninja, total nub, unkown alts to be carried participate, it boosts the chances to be scammed.

/ignore, contact CS and move on.

 

tuesday night: >20 instances on EV, bads farming soa's *** for 224 MH, last week, 6 instances on ToS, all on revan attempts..you can figure out the quality of groups in choosing which ops to pug.

[Malix-Moon]

I like that. Especially as last night the Op leader absconded with all loot at the last boss at the end of EVHM.

 

Thats why i only do those missions with guildies and other friends

[AlrikFassbauer]

I don't need Master Looter.

 

Because I won't get anything anyway with my notoriously bad roll luck.

[Toraak]

I've run groups many times using ML, and I've never had a problem with it. I've never even considered Ninja'ing any loot. Everything was done fairly, and Loot distributed after each boss is killed. I never understood why people tried to hold onto the Drops and do loot at the end. I'll never stay in a pug group that does it that way, and I'll never do it that way personally.

[RocketWoofus]

My experience in the first round of EV HM was every PUG group I ran with , except the one I ran, had the Group Lead ninja the 224 Mainhand. Subsequent weeks with much more challenging bosses have introduced many creative loot distribution schemes, none of which seemed to improve on having a trustworthy Lead. While I agree the best would be to gather all the loot and distribute it at the end, I have rarely seen even the 220s and the DMCs get handed out fairly at the end. Under the guise of a rage quit or accidental DC, the Lead disappears along with the gear. Need/Greed runs devolve to greed = pass. Even decos get needed by folks who have won three or more. The tougher runs see folks come and go like a pro football or basket ball team. I have seen S&V runs with seven bosses still have 5 folks rolling for the final gear items due to so many drops and replacements.

 

Now the wheel has come through a full rotation and it is EV HM time again. I ran a group Tuesday night. We cycled through 13 folks to get an 8 person raid started (DCs, mom called, guild called, flakes, etc.). I had to type the loot rules 6 times, as the last guys over and over demanded to know what the rules were. Just keeping the raid trinity ratios straight, trying not to have the twitch monkeys start the fight before everyone arrived, looking for lock-outs, explaining to the woefully undergeared that HM does not bolster, having the pvp geared remember to switch to pve, etc. makes repeating the loot rules that many times a royal pinta. I found the best way to earn raid trust was to hand everything out as soon as well got it with the warning that if you leave the area too soon, you are not eligible for the loot (because chasing you down to hand it off while the twitch monkeys are string pulling the trash mobs, or finding out you rolled an 89 in an area I can't see is another royal pinta).

 

I pug because as a guild raid lead we only have time for one run a week, and I can get multiple toons through these runs. I pug because my reward for the run was a single 220, and I have starving alts at home who need the gear. I pug because I enjoy the game, and when we all work as a team and blaze through the op, I Have Fun.

 

I agree with the folks that a need/greed system where need is greyed out after a win would be the fairest, but ML will be my run method of choice until the upgrade occurs.

[Khaleijo]

I don't need Master Looter.

 

Because I won't get anything anyway with my notoriously bad roll luck.

 

You do know or understand that a fair used ML+ "one token each" distribution is used to counter exactly this kind of bad luck and improve the chances of getting something out of an operation for everyone?

Each time someone won an item, there are less players rolling for the next one, until everyone had an item. There are needed 8 items in total, like token, DMC or decorations in order to make sure you get something too, even if you roll 1 every time.

 

Concerning the problem with ML ninjas, the best measure is to become ML yourself to make sure loot is given out fair or having trusted players you know being fair as ML.

If you encounter a player who is running away with loot, try to talk to his guild, that won't help getting the items back, but most serious guilds are taking their reputation serious too and don't want to be known as ninja ML.

Put the player on the ignore list and warn your friends about him.

There isn't much fun with bling bling items if no group is taking you anywhere anymore.