Suggestion: Give Sentinel/Marauder a 2nd Role

[Strref]

I'm a newer player, and my first character is a Sentinel. On the whole, I like the class; I figured I would when I made one. However, looking at some of the shortcomings and reading past history of balance/mechanical issues from the class, I think I see one primary flaw in it--and a "role hole" in the game as well.

 

Basically, the specializations for the class = 3 different ways to hit things with 2 glowy sticks. That's it. Unlock most of the other advanced classes (except gunslinger?) it's locked into a very singular role: melee DPS.

 

Making 3 functional specs that are both interesting and playable is a challenge, one that in my opinion hasn't been adequately met, and in my opinion part of the difficulties in the past.

 

My suggestion? Turn one of the specializations (Watchman, just going by the name) a party support role--party heals/buffs that come from the use of Sentinel's melee abilities. A somewhat tough melee support character.

 

For those familiar, I would compare this suggestion somewhat to Captain in LOTRO. Good but not great armor--can survive melee, but not really a tank in all but small party situations--good but not great DPS, and party support.

 

I would designate the advanced classes specs as such:

 

Single Saber:

 

Spec 1 -- Tank

Spec 2 -- Sustained DPS/DOT spreading

Spec 3 -- Burst DPS/Mobility (Shared with Sentinel)

(This is exactly how it is now)

 

Dual Saber:

 

Spec 1 -- Melee party support

Spec 2 -- Sustained DPS

Spec 3 -- Burst DPS/mobility (Shared with Guardian)

 

This doesn't breach the trifectum of having all 3 of tank, heals, and DPS on one advanced class. However, compare it to the design of the (imo) better put together Consular/Inquisitor. I feel that with each of the 6 specs of Consular/Inqusitor, I am playing a different concept/role.

 

Single Saber:

 

Spec 1 -- Heals

Spec 2 -- Sustained DPS

Spec 3 -- Mobility DPS (Shared with Staff)

 

Staff

 

Spec 1 -- Tank/Support

Spec 2 -- Sustained DPS

Spec 3 -- Mobility DPS (Shared with Single)

 

Much more analogous, and this would leave Sentinel feeling much less pigeonholed -- and leave the specs feeling much less thin in uniqueness.

[jauvtus]

The 3 specs of sents are different and all of them have advantages in different situations: Watchman is dot-pressure spec, Concentration is pure burst, Combat is hybrid sustained-burst class with a very unique burst style. I dont feel like Im missing out anything by not being able to play a support role as sent, that's what other ACs are for.

But if you insist, I'll tell you a secret: you can do some support as sent, while being dps:

1. Use Ephemeral Mending relic as Watchman Sentinel. You won't lose that much dps by dismissing Serendipitous Assault relic, but your hps will be considerably bigger.

2. Combat Sentinels are quite good tanks. You have 6% dmg reduction and 6% defense 100% uptime, combine that with Jedi Enforcer and Jedi Promulgator utilities, and you will have a high uptime, strong Rebuke, making you take less dmg and since Combat has both good burst and high sustained (+Rebuke dmg), holding aggro wont be a problem unless a good tank attacks the same target/taunts it. Plus you can have 6s Godmode on 150s CD.

So, no sentinels dont need a designated tank/heal discipline. You already can do that if you really want to, all the while pulling great dps.

Edited January 12, 2016 by jauvtus

[Valzanik]

They don;t need to give Marauder a 2nd role.

 

Marauder is a pure dps melee class, so BIO-Ware needs to stop listening to bad and people who have complained about mara and improve their performance specifically in PVP.

 

Anni has hardish hitting dots with a laughable self heal aspect and dot spread potential. It may be one of the best performing in PVE but it is not viable in PVP and the role it fits is immensely out preformed by Hatred Sin (still)

 

Carnage- Was perfect back in 2.1 (Gore reset, 4,5 gore Window, Crippling root, ravage actually did damage and was worth the channel time and skill/difficultness to get off, retaliation as a skill ) It was still able to be stun locked and shut down but also had ability to achieve the burst/DPS it was intended to when controlled by a skilled player.

 

BUT Bio-Ware then gutted and nerfed it taking away all its utility and uniquness with the discpline tree. Its burst damage in PVP is not EVEN CLOSE to where it should be, with the lack of utility and utility options it has. The core ability which is one of the hardest to land in the game (ravage) hits like a wet noodle with a lvl 64 talent that is basically a big FU/troll giving a "Burst intended Melee DPS spec" the *******s 9 sec dot of all time. Give Carn its unique utility back or for the love of god please make it a viable burst spec again.It is intended to be a burst class not an ineffective sustained/easily locked down minimal burst Hybrid.

 

Fury-Rage juggs do it so much better.

 

It is a shame they have ruined one of the most fun classes in the game and have let the influence of people who have tremendous L2P issues dictate the way they have addressed this class and overall game play in general. The game as of now is honestly the most "balanced" it has ever been. that being said, They have taken away the enjoy-ability of mara by making it a 2nd or 3rd runner up to a rivaling A/C who can additionally benefit from the perks of the other role options available with that class.

 

It is a pure MELEE DPS spec with no ability to heal/( please don't embarrass your self by agruing the laughable self heal anni gets) /gaurd/taunt/stance swap. It should be the highest dps and have the tools to obtain the highest potential for Burst(carnage). Dot pressure(Anni) and Sustain/burst(Rage) in PVP and PVE. Not fighting for it to be OP like previous mess ups by Bio-Ware has implemented that have ruined PVP and resulted in a loss of massive player base, (i.e Smash monkies, Old hatred sins, OP PT/tank spec) it simply needs to have the tools,utilities, potential to be what it was orginally designed to be,the top melee DPS spec. because its Melee pure DPS, fix it to what it was and had previously been designed to be.

 

Musco read this please and show it to the devs. Ill email ya

Edited January 12, 2016 by Valzanik

[Ardarell_Solo]

They don;t need to give Marauder a 2nd role.

 

Marauder is a pure dps melee class, so BIO-Ware needs to stop listening to bad and people who have complained about mara and improve their performance specifically in PVP.

 

Anni has hardish hitting dots with a laughable self heal aspect and dot spread potential. It may be one of the best performing in PVE but it is not viable in PVP and the role it fits is immensely out preformed by Hatred Sin (still)

 

Carnage- Was perfect back in 2.1 and then they gutted and nerfed it taking away all its utility and uniquness with the discpline tree. Its burst damage in PVP is not EVEN CLOSE to where it should be, with the lack of utility and utility options it has. The core ability which is one of the hardest to land in the game (ravage) hits like a wet noodle with a lvl 64 talent that is basically a big FU/troll giving a "Burst intended Melee DPS spec" the *******s 9 sec dot of all time. Give Carn its unique utility back or for the love of god please make it a viable burst spec again.It is intended to be a burst class not an ineffective sustained/easily locked down minimal burst Hybrid.

 

Fury-Rage juggs do it so much better.

 

It is a shame they have ruined one of the most fun classes in the game and have let the influence of people who have tremendous L2P issues dictate the way they have addressed this class and overall game play in general. The game as of now is honestly the most "balanced" it has ever been. that being said, They have taken away the enjoy-ability of mara by making it a 2nd or 3rd runner up to a rivaling A/C who can additionally benefit from the perks of the other role options available with that class.

 

It is a pure MELEE DPS spec with no ability to heal/( please don't embarrass your self by agruing the laughable self heal anni gets) /gaurd/taunt/stance swap. It should be the highest dps and have the tools to obtain the highest potential for Burst(carnage). Dot pressure(Anni) and Sustain/burst(Rage) in PVP and PVE. Not fighting for it to be OP like previous mess ups by Bio-Ware has implemented that have ruined PVP and resulted in a loss of massive player base, (i.e Smash monkies, Old hatred sins, OP PT/tank spec) it simply needs to have the tools,utilities, potential to be what it was orginally designed to be,the top melee DPS spec. because its Melee pure DPS, fix it to what it was and had previously been designed to be.

 

Musco read this please and show it to the devs. Ill email ya

 

That kind of attitude has been helping to improve the class immensely in the last 2 years :/

[Valzanik]

That kind of attitude has been helping to improve the class immensely in the last 2 years :/

 

i have played since beta and been a supporter of swtor and seen everything this game has been through as well as playing at the "highest level" of PVP. My "attitude" is rather a suggestion compiled from experience conversation, theroycrafting with some of the best/most experienced players throughout swtor. my intention is e to help the quality of PVP and class gameplay.

 

Giving validated and though out suggestions, that go unrecognized i might add, does not warrant you sarcastic comment about my intentions to truly improve the class. Please sir, kindly take a seat.

[Eastiano]

Lol, you told Elethon to take a seat?

 

Well regardless of your player awareness all sentinel/marauder specs are in a pretty good place atm, not "we can now fly", sorc/pt powerful, but decent. I wouldnt want any buffs because that would remove the challenging element of the gameplay. I wish bubblestun gave more resolve though, that would maybe fix a few issues with pvp.

[Ardarell_Solo]

i have played since beta and been a supporter of swtor and seen everything this game has been through as well as playing at the "highest level" of PVP. My "attitude" is rather a suggestion compiled from experience conversation, theroycrafting with some of the best/most experienced players throughout swtor. my intention is e to help the quality of PVP and class gameplay.

 

Giving validated and though out suggestions, that go unrecognized i might add, does not warrant you sarcastic comment about my intentions to truly improve the class. Please sir, kindly take a seat.

 

I don't doubt your intentions and I think that some things you're suggesting do make sense. It's just been my experience from communication with the Dev team that you just might get listened to a bit more if you adopt a respectful tone and try to be constructive. Which I meant to point out your post was lacking. Point taken it's generally difficult to get good ideas across and I've failed at if myself for sure. Partly also because I can get very passionate about our class and get carried away.

 

But to my knowledge a lot of the best things about the new Annihilation did actually come from a well known player whose patience and graciousness in everything he says is unrivaled.

[jauvtus]

The devs probably have their hands full with 4.1 so I dont expect any class changes until then. But after 4.1 hits, maybe we should start asking for QoL and performance fixes again. Personally I was in love with pre3.0 Combat, loved Watchman, now I cant even stand the Juyo form and Combat is more boring, less useful with burst, too. Edited January 13, 2016 by jauvtus

[g_mK]

The devs probably have their hands full with 4.1 so I dont expect any class changes until then. But after 4.1 hits, maybe we should start asking for QoL and performance fixes again. Personally I was in love with 3.0 Combat, loved Watchman, now I cant even stand the Juyo form and Combat is more boring, less useful with burst, too.

 

Combat hasn't changed a bit since 3.0

[jauvtus]

Combat hasn't changed a bit since 3.0

 

Missed a "pre", fixed now. You also kinda missed my point

Edited January 13, 2016 by jauvtus

[Valzanik]

I don't doubt your intentions and I think that some things you're suggesting do make sense. It's just been my experience from communication with the Dev team that you just might get listened to a bit more if you adopt a respectful tone and try to be constructive. Which I meant to point out your post was lacking. Point taken it's generally difficult to get good ideas across and I've failed at if myself for sure. Partly also because I can get very passionate about our class and get carried away.

 

But to my knowledge a lot of the best things about the new Annihilation did actually come from a well known player whose patience and graciousness in everything he says is unrivaled.

 

I understand exactly where you are coming from. My initial tone and delivery was also to spark interest in this post and draw some of the communities attention, resulting in putting it on Bio-wares radar. As many know constructive and patient suggestions don't also work out in an effective manner. My intentions were to express mine and others, current frustrations with the class and mainly carnage spec specifically. I do intend to put together a thought out post regarding Maras current PVP state and valid, constructive, changes created by a group of experienced players. Both PVE/PVP to ensure proper balance as well as effectiveness attributing to more satisfying play style.

 

Will make a post sooner than than to get communities suggestions that are actually realistic and constructive and with then. relay them to people who have the ability to contact Musco directly. Hopefully this will try to get them actually seen/heard

[Ardarell_Solo]

I understand exactly where you are coming from. My initial tone and delivery was also to spark interest in this post and draw some of the communities attention, resulting in putting it on Bio-wares radar. As many know constructive and patient suggestions don't also work out in an effective manner. My intentions were to express mine and others, current frustrations with the class and mainly carnage spec specifically. I do intend to put together a thought out post regarding Maras current PVP state and valid, constructive, changes created by a group of experienced players. Both PVE/PVP to ensure proper balance as well as effectiveness attributing to more satisfying play style.

 

Will make a post sooner than than to get communities suggestions that are actually realistic and constructive and with then. relay them to people who have the ability to contact Musco directly. Hopefully this will try to get them actually seen/heard

 

sounds good :-)

[Strref]

I suppose it's just a lack of true variety in the class that leaves me a little disappointed. Yes, there's certainly something to be said for excelling at a role. On the other hand, with the other classes I've played thus far I feel like I can kit out for three truly different experiences in role and behavior.

 

That's not to say I'm displeased with the class. I find mine highly enjoyable. But it still comes down to "3 different ways to hit things with 2 glowy sticks." I think a war leader/inspirational type spec would have merit.

 

I feel like I may come back to this more when I have more experience with the class. As it stands, though I like and see the roles for the 3 specs to an extent, I feel like it's trying to stretch too much over three specs, at least in terms of PvE perspective.

[Strref]

So more impressions after a bit more play time:

 

The class still feels too stretched over 3 specs. To clarify, I think Watchman/Annihilation is fine where it's at; dedicated role as long term DPS/dot healer. The other 2 specs are in some ways trying to fill the same role (burst/spike) in different ways. The result of this is that one tends to be more optimal for large scale PvE and the other for PvP and leveling. Ideally, the two paradigms would be merged into one to a spec that has the PvP utility of one and the PvE ability of the other.

 

Merging two similar specs (in role) in turn frees up a spec that you can focus on a different idea--you've got a burst + AoE spec, you've got a DPS spec. The third spec's natural lean would be towards party support/companion support, assuming you don't want to overlap into tanking (which Sent/Mara shouldn't imo). The core function/role of the class would remain the same: You have two glowy sticks and you hit things with them to do damage. You're still a DPS class.

 

I've detailed this elsewhere on these forums, but I would draw inspiration from Lotro's captain. Need for targeting specific party members would be very limited to none, as your primary target focus would be whatever you're dealing damage to.

 

The Lotro Captain's blade-brother ability links them to a party member (similar to guard), giving them a hard boost to the mastery/power equivalent stats for as long as you're linked to them. You then have several abilities you can activate that do various things for your linked party member and/or you that don't require retargeting. These abilities can apply differently to different types of party members so you can adapt to different situations. Some examples

 

Ability 1: Melee attack -- whenever you hit an enemy with this attack, your linked party member is healed X amount.

Ability 2: Activated ability (instant) -- for the next X seconds, your melee attacks restore your linked party member Y focus/force power/whatever.

Ability 3: For the next X seconds, whenever you or your linked party member hits with an attack, the other receives a +Y (or +Y%) bonus to damage for the duration of this ability.

 

These are just some examples of how such a mechanic can work.

 

In addition, focus spending melee attacks, or crits, or both can proc things to the party, like a party bubble (quick example: whenever you crit with whatever melee attack that spends focus and has a cooldown, your party members gain +X% health for the next Y seconds).

 

And of course you can also have traditional untargeted activated abilities that give boosts to the party, like a relatively long cooldown big AoE heal, or a party wide temporary mastery/power boost/crit (so both DPSers and healers benefit from the buff), etc.

 

If anyone is interested I can throw together a demo tree. I might do so in any case.

 

Some examples of how this type of specs and mechanics could function in different group situations. Going 4 man here for the moment for ease). Let's say that the party is something traditional, like:

 

Tank

DPS

You (DPS/support)

Healer

 

Situation 1: Your healer has a lot of wide spread healing pressure to deal with in this encounter, rather than the usual mash buttons on the tank -- You link with the tank, and the tank receives healing/bubbles/whatever off your attacks/ability uses, as you're doing your thing by hitting stuff. This takes pressure off of the healer.

 

Situation 2: A long term fight in which your healer is having power management issues or healing power issues -- You link with the healer and in addition to a flat mastery/power bonus from the link they get some force power restored whenever you use certain attack abilities. As you DPS, their job gets easier.

 

Situation 3: The tank is able to manage aggro and the healer is keeping up on heals, but you and the other DPSer aren't able to DPS down whatever needs DPSing before the fight gets too out of hand -- You link with the DPSer, increasing the offensive output of both of you by use of your activated melee abilities.

 

Situation 4: The party's in an "oh ****" situation -- You have a party wide "oh ****" button, and you press it. As an example, imagine one of the 4 abilities gained by this spec turning Guarded by the Force or Saber Ward into a party-wide buff.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Strref

[Arkillon]

Matchless > a guy with "anni pve guide" in his sig. Mara is **** compared to how unique it was before (also *** deadly saber wher u at fam????)

 

You could global people, but was squishy. It was challenging and intense and required extreme levels of concentration, spikes in adrenaline and and dopamine. Now it's luck if you 1. You crit on ravage and 2. Can take away 40k healh consistently. Sure I still do 3k + dps as carnage/anni and fury, but that's because I'm knowledgeable about the class and other classes. It's definitely not as fun as before, but it's carnags. It's still fun. Anni is boring, weird and bad. And fury... Get a jug

[ReyVagabond]

Realy?