"Pub pvp..."

[Geeorgedk]

Your reasoning is a bit flawed as too why there are more imp pvpers. It's certainly not just better animations lol. It's because the actual imp stories are more interesting than the rep ones. Most people who start the game will play through the stories to get the class buffs. The rep ones, especially the Jedi ones are so boring and lame, that people quickly switched to imps side. Most people who are new to the game don't jump straight into pvp, so most don't even realise there is an imbalance. Plus most people like the idea of being a little bit evil or dangerous and are attracted to the imp side. Blame Bio for the class stories and blame the people's natural attraction to the dark side.

The issue is once people start pvping on the rep side and see the big imbalance, lots switch to imps to pvp because it's easier to play with a group who can steam roll people, than actually learning to play properly. On a percentage vs percentage basis, there are actually the same if not more rep players that are as good as or better imps. But the population is much smaller on the rep side, so the less experience or less skilled players stand out more because there aren't enough reps queueing. While the less experienced imp players hide in amongst the larger population of players, which means they can be spread out through more games. This allows them to be carried by the better players.

At certain times of the day, imps are a lot worse than the worst reps I've seen. In those time brackets the reps completely dominate them. But once again, because of the larger population, the time brackets are more in favour of the imps because a higher population means a better chance of having better player on during a larger part of the day.

The only solution to the population imbalance is to have cross faction pvp.

You're just going by what you're assuming is the case. There is no proof whatsoever that because the stories are better/cooler, more people pvp on Imp side. And are the stories cool by their own right, or because you're playing a bad *** Imp? Or a combination of both? People in general steer towards the evil/bad side in mmo's. I've played some and it's the same every time. By the way, the stories being better is very debatable.

 

From other mmo's I know that most serious pvp'ers don't really care about the levelling, they just want to pvp, so I doubt a supposedly cooler story would help there. I know this is all anecdotal, but I've asked quite some Imps why they prefer pvp as I was intruiged about the gap, and most said, it's either the cooler animations, being more bad ***, or shorter queues. And well shorter queues, that's cause and effect.

[foxmob]

it's either the cooler animations, being more bad ***, or shorter queues. And well shorter queues, that's cause and effect.

 

pretty sure the major factors in order of relevance are...

1. more balanced (fewer bads, less likely of popping a WZ in which you have to carry 4-6 players whereas the other team/faction only has to carry 1-2)
   
2. faster pops
   
3. ...
   
4. ...
   
5. ...
   
6. bad is cool (compare Joker vs. Batman, Lex Luthor vs. Superpanties, Vader vs. Luke)
   
7. story (corrupting the "good" or "light side" jedi is always going to be more interesting than the inverse...unless you're really into your missionary religious thing)
   
8. animations are better for the most part
   
9. even playing subversively is more fun on imp side (playing an agent or a BH who undermines the imperials...maybe similar to...ahem...Rogue One?)
   
10. care bears tend toward the "light side" (e.g., Alliance vs. Horde, Pub vs. Imp., Human vs. Orc, Terran/Protos vs. Zerg, etc.). they just do. I really don't know what to tell you there.
    

point is, all of these nuanced explanations are way below the first two.

 

during the first round of server mergers, my origin server was rolled into Canderous Ordo. CO was utterly dominated by <LD50> (pub). and with the merger, they got bolstered by high quality guilds like <Bloodline> (pub). It took a literal all-star guild of imps (<infidels>) just to defeat LD50 in one or two WZs, which they did and proceeded almost immediately to disband. A few weeks later, everyone who was in <infidels> either left the game or rerolled pub side and were (mostly) members of <LD50>.

 

• there was never any problem with pops. they were quick and often.
  
• the dominant faction was pub. so all of those story and animation arguments were clearly not pertinent.
  
• one thing mattered: pub side was stronger. pubs didn't have to band together to field a competent team. there were always decent players in the queue. imps had to premade (more to avoid bad teammates but then they even started forming superQs).
  

 

mediocre players and solo players flock to the stronger side because they need help (call it a carry if you want), but good players do it because their egos cannot stand getting pulled down by players so far beneath them that they lose to their equals (in skill) every time. so they swap faction. and why not? you wreck pubs. which is...whatever. but it also means you get same faction matches where you're aren't guaranteed to be saddled with completely hopeless teammates. in other words: x-faction please.

[Geeorgedk]

pretty sure the major factors in order of relevance are...

[*]more balanced (fewer bads, less likely of popping a WZ in which you have to carry 4-6 players whereas the other te

 

Why do you think that is really? Bit amazed you stated that as the most important thing. It's because of the reasons I mentioned.

That's what I meant by cause and effect.

Those shorter queues and less bads are because people prefer playing Imp in the first place.

You can't say people go Imp because queues are shorter, that's the effect of more people going Imp.

[foxmob]

Those shorter queues and less bads are because people prefer playing Imp in the first place.

You can't say people go Imp because queues are shorter, that's the effect of more people going Imp.

did you stop reading after the first two lines? because I provided a very clear example of PUBS being the dominant faction (CO and then later on JC).

[Geeorgedk]

did you stop reading after the first two lines? because I provided a very clear example of PUBS being the dominant faction (CO and then later on JC).

I did stop reading yes, but I read the rest now. I've been pvping for about 4 years now, and yes, on pub side there have been very good teams, and yes Imps had a hard time, bla bla bla.

I've pvped on 2 servers before the server merges took place, and overal Imps have been dominating, perhaps not as much as they have now, but still.

And the whole 'animation thing, imps are more bad *** etc' ,perhaps it didn't play as big a role back then as it does now, player population does change. I don't have an answer for that, I mostly go by the Imp players I asked in game and what I've seen on other media. It's just a sample of course, nothing scientific about it.

 

I'll ask you this though, if animations, being bad *** etc isn't important at all, why aren't all the good Imps moving Pub side? You could say well 'why would they, it's all good Imp side'. That's true, but it doesn't help the game overall.

It's why we're having this thread and others.

I have characters on both sides and whenever I'm on my Imp char, I notice a lot more hate/disdain for Pubs than the other way around. Pubs are weak, goody two shoes, etc, amongst the remarks I've seen.

I remember several times chosing light side options on my Imp in fp's and people talking ****.

[foxmob]

I explained very clearly what the two major reasons are and how they feed on each other. believe it or don't. I've nothing more to say. it can't be anymore clear. players gravitate toward the winning side. no matter which side that is. if you want to talk conspiracy theories, alrikfassblahblah will be happy to feed you relatively inconsequential gibberish.

[Geeorgedk]

I explained very clearly what the two major reasons are and how they feed on each other. believe it or don't. I've nothing more to say. it can't be anymore clear. players gravitate toward the winning side. no matter which side that is. if you want to talk conspiracy theories, alrikfassblahblah will be happy to feed you relatively inconsequential gibberish.

The weird thing is, you stated all the reasons why there's more people playing Imp, yet you got it backwards. Insert everything with Rep, apart from your first argument, and see where that goes.

Not sure what to tell you anymore. But I assume you mostly play Imp so meh, you don't care.

[Technohic]

I have not seen a Pub yet today over several hours of PvP. I think they are a myth at this point.

 

Sad part is; eventually whatever bad there might have been pub will be imp side as well so they can get pops.

[foxmob]

Sad part is; eventually whatever bad there might have been pub will be imp side as well so they can get pops.

 

that's not sad. that's fine, actually. until x-faction happens (never), that's the only remedy for faction imbalance: everyone play on the same side.

 

unless you want to monkey with the game play itself, which will prolly kill what's left of the population. of course, there will always be the window lickers who inherit the earth and all that. so who knows?

[mfourcustom]

? Edited August 22, 2016 by mfourcustom

[Saikochoro]

Honestly I remember when pub pvp meant "wow those guys are great." On both bastion and harbinger pubs used to be very good. In fact, on bastion I would say that pubs dominated up till maybe sometime in 2.0. Then it started to switch to imps. I also remember my first few toons on harbinger pubs were amazing. By the time I made my full transition over to harbinger though the pubs on bastion had been utter garbage for over a year and the pubs on harbinger were just as bad.

 

That is what makes it worse. If the pubs had always been terrible it wouldn't be so bad, but the fact that they used to be great is what is sad.

[-Bob-]

Honestly I remember when pub pvp meant "wow those guys are great." On both bastion and harbinger pubs used to be very good. In fact, on bastion I would say that pubs dominated up till maybe sometime in 2.0. Then it started to switch to imps. I also remember my first few toons on harbinger pubs were amazing. By the time I made my full transition over to harbinger though the pubs on bastion had been utter garbage for over a year and the pubs on harbinger were just as bad.

 

That is what makes it worse. If the pubs had always been terrible it wouldn't be so bad, but the fact that they used to be great is what is sad.

 

I remember this, I only played pub side on Wound in the force (merged to Bastion) since launch, for the longest time, never had an imp until Q pops were 30-45 minutes in between and the matches were just steam rolling over pubs, then i started rolling a few imps. I'm about 50/50 on Harb right now. Played some pub matches yesterday afternoon on a few toons. Those pub players just aren't as coordinated and the communication is almost non existent over there during the times that i play. But then again, imp side isn't always that great anymore either, it seems objective maps have turned into 16 man arenas.

[Technohic]

that's not sad. that's fine, actually. until x-faction happens (never), that's the only remedy for faction imbalance: everyone play on the same side.

 

unless you want to monkey with the game play itself, which will prolly kill what's left of the population. of course, there will always be the window lickers who inherit the earth and all that. so who knows?

 

I suppose you're right. Just sad that the faction itself is disappearing. Was on my sniper doing 65s a lot yesterday and i seriously didnt see a single pub. Mids i see them. But usually the same groups.

 

Hope they do cross faction soon. I miss my GS.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Technohic

[Schoock]

I suppose you're right. Just sad that the faction itself is disappearing. Hope the do cross faction soon. I miss my GS.

 

Then play it?

[Technohic]

Then play it?

 

Not going to sit there waiting for pops. Or gear up the keft side and weapons to sit there and wait

Edited August 22, 2016 by Technohic

[Greezt]

Not going to sit there waiting for pops. Or gear up the keft side and weapons to sit there and wait

 

Which server? On the ones I PvP on pubs get pops.

[Technohic]

Which server? On the ones I PvP on pubs get pops.

 

It's Harbs. It probably pops but I have not seen a pub so I am assuming its a lot longer wait.

[foxmob]

Which server? On the ones I PvP on pubs get pops.

 

the problem isn't just time between pops (which is better for imps on all 3 of my servers at this point). the bigger problem is that when WZs do pop, you have the same 4-7 derp teammates every time. occasionally that works in your favor b/c there's a good premade in queue. but that's really just as bad. it's defacto q-syncs. whereas on imp side, I'm as likely to pop same faction matches, which means I'm twice as likely to have different teammates every single time.

 

my point is that if you have a team of terrible players on imp side, you can queue up again with legit hope that they won't be your teammates the next time. or you can leave and queue while that WZ is in progress to get into a different rotation. but on pub side, there usually isn't another rotation. if you have 4-7 derps on your team for one WZ, even if you leave to get a different rotation, you likely won't pop until that WZ ends and the same 4-7 derps are on your team again. and they stay on your team for an hour or more. so it's either stop playing or faction dodge them.

Edited August 22, 2016 by foxmob

[TheLunarTick]

Not going to sit there waiting for pops. Or gear up the keft side and weapons to sit there and wait

 

 

 

...That's your prerogative but seriously, for those of you on Harbenger... wouldn't it make more sense to politely tell people that you all have basically decided you do NOT want people to cue for wz's on the pub side. I mean if the entire PvP community is going to just move to one faction do you really need to just come here and verbally attack them all the time? Couldn't you just inform them that the community as a whole has decided to like... do things a certain way?

Edited August 22, 2016 by TheLunarTick
Was too harsh. Don't want to make this personal against anyone.

[TheLunarTick]

When they finally get around to making all pvp cross faction (if they ever do), all of these threads will be null and void. I can't wait till that happens because then we'll actually have better and hopefully less one sided matches.

Queue times should also be faster.

 

Right, isn't it funny how the vocal minority has pretty much trolled themselves into obscurity? I mean, these people had their day and it was called Shadow of Revan. It was a terrible time for the average player I think, especially on the PvP servers. However, I'm glad that they did have their chance because it seems to have been the last straw as far as the devs were concerned or at least it seems like after that is when a lot of the changes we see today started coming around.

 

Sadly though I think that even with cross faction the people who are just out to ruin everyone else's day are going to find another way to do it, even though I do think cross faction will help to some degree. I almost want to say that factions are becoming an outdated idea in games like this just because as someone else pointed out in a different reply people will always tend to gravitate towards the winning side. So that might be different sides on different servers or it might go back and forth over time but the unfortunate thing is that not all new players that happen to end up on the lesser faction are going to stick with it or try another server.

Edited August 22, 2016 by TheLunarTick

[foxmob]

Translation: "If I cue on pub side I'm going to intentionally go in under geared and probably mouth off at my teammates about how terrible they are even though I'm not even trying to win which leaves them essentially short handed. Then I'm probably going to use voice chat to feed the enemy team information about what my team is doing."

 

I get it with me. I don't pull many punches on this board, but what about his posts makes you think he's that guy? are you just traumatized from what's happened to you in WZs?

 

look. the point is this: he could queue imp side in all 190 greens (or 180 or w/e) and still be a constructive member of the team, "undergeared" or not. or he could be an unconstructive, "undergeared" pub b/c the rest of his team is so dysfunctional that it really doesn't matter if he's mediocre, good or great.

 

maybe you call that being carried. iunno. I don't think so. I think there's enough of a mix and a large enough number of players in the imp pool that you can be constructive w/o being carried whereas your very existence on the other faction is pointless.

Edited August 22, 2016 by foxmob

[TheLunarTick]

I get it with me. I don't pull many punches on this board, but what about his posts makes you think he's that guy? are you just traumatized from what's happened to you in WZs?

 

look. the point is this: he could queue imp side in all 190 greens (or 180 or w/e) and still be a constructive member of the team, "undergeared" or not. or he could be an unconstructive, "undergeared" pub b/c the rest of his team is so dysfunctional that it really doesn't matter if he's mediocre, good or great.

 

maybe you call that being carried. iunno. I don't think so. I think there's enough of a mix and a large enough number of players in the imp pool that you can be constructive w/o being carried whereas your very existence on the other faction is pointless.

 

Sure it was a little abrupt of me to go at him like that and if you look back I did edit my post. However, that kind of stuff does happen a lot and I have a sneaky suspicion it's not just a random and uncoordinated effort or some guy doing it on his own all the time. It happens too often for that.

 

But to be fair it happens on the Imperial side too, just not as much. With that said I think "traumatized" is a little wishful thinking on your end. Whatever makes you feel important i guess...

[Technohic]

...That's your prerogative but seriously, for those of you on Harbenger... wouldn't it make more sense to politely tell people that you all have basically decided you do NOT want people to cue for wz's on the pub side. I mean if the entire PvP community is going to just move to one faction do you really need to just come here and verbally attack them all the time? Couldn't you just inform them that the community as a whole has decided to like... do things a certain way?

I dont know how you get any of this from what i said

[foxmob]

Sure it was a little abrupt of me to go at him like that and if you look back I did edit my post. However, that kind of stuff does happen a lot and I have a sneaky suspicion it's not just a random and uncoordinated effort or some guy doing it on his own all the time. It happens too often for that.

 

But to be fair it happens on the Imperial side too, just not as much. With that said I think "traumatized" is a little wishful thinking on your end. Whatever makes you feel important i guess...

 

perhaps you take traumatized as an insult. it's a fact. it's emotional memory. you see someone rage or you are raged upon and it sticks in your mind, affecting how you filter the world.

[Kurfer]

I have 5 imps and 5 pubs, when I play my imps I can usually get the dailies and weeklies done in two days across all characters. Good healers, good dps, strong team play.

 

When I play pubs it's an absolute abortion, we don't just lose we get steamrolled. If I heal my team gets tripled in dmg, if I dps I get 10+ deaths with 3 healers on my team below 1k hps.

 

I think the issue is that you have alot of family house dad casual types that play republic (the good side). They grew up with Luke Skywalker posters on their wall and want to be a Jedi. They are not much of gamers but they love starwars; they click and keyboard turn. They also look down on their keyboard and mouse when they use abilities.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Kurfer