Apockorties Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Here is my take on Healing ... The problem in my opinion isn't with a class or healer output. The problem is that the team dynamic in warzones allow for teams to run with multiple healers. That is what the problem is. No 4 man group should be allowed more than one healer which means no 8 man group should ever have more than two. I agree that having multiple healers cross heal themselves can be troublesome. The issue simple comes down to DPS rotations/interrupts/stuns and blocking escape routes. In general a DPS doing their job properly. Killing the most efficient way possible. I personal play all roles... heal on all three classes, tank on all three classes, and mDPS and rDPS on multiple classes. From the tank/healer prospective I will personally never spec into that role knowing that only X will get an invite into a war zone. I only DPS into solo ranked queues. Having multiple queue times based on a role IMHO is far worse knowing that I will have to wait a longer period of time just because I feel like healer or tanking or whatever. Saying this and knowing the average queue times I would prefer to play the role that has the shortest time. Having troublesome cross healers or OP whatever while it may not be fair most people will argue good players can compensate for the class' shortcomings. Just smile and remember that they can't hurt you while you are slowing killing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristrokratie Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Healing with more than one co-healer (at least for me) is super boring, I'd rather wait longer for queue pops than enter a warzone with 3-4 other healers (ofc they all have to be sages so they absorb the damage i could heal through with hots-.-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yeah, sure. Nice one. You make an accusation out of the blue and then the accused has to prove his innocence, or else he's guilty. Congrats. You just turned a centuries old basic principle of jurisprudence upside down. You brought forth an argument that healers and tanks are OP, I (among others) countered that healers and tanks are not OP and that most of time these complaints come from "bad" players or are based on the lack of matchmaking; you can counter this argument by submitting examples that showcase that the issue is neither a lack of personal skill or poor matchmaking but you refuse to. You don't have prove anything, but your unwillingness to share a simple screenshot, video, or stream to help support your argument lends credence to my statements and undermines your own stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garomaath Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 you brought forth an argument that healers and tanks are op, i (among others) countered that healers and tanks are not op and that most of time these complaints come from "bad" players or are based on the lack of matchmaking; you can counter this argument by submitting examples that showcase that the issue is neither a lack of personal skill or poor matchmaking but you refuse to. You don't have prove anything, but your unwillingness to share a simple screenshot, video, or stream to help support your argument lends credence to my statements and undermines your own stance. ^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garomaath Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 you brought forth an argument that healers and tanks are op, i (among others) countered that healers and tanks are not op and that most of time these complaints come from "bad" players or are based on the lack of matchmaking; you can counter this argument by submitting examples that showcase that the issue is neither a lack of personal skill or poor matchmaking but you refuse to. You don't have prove anything, but your unwillingness to share a simple screenshot, video, or stream to help support your argument lends credence to my statements and undermines your own stance. ^this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristrokratie Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 You brought forth an argument that healers and tanks are OP, I (among others) countered that healers and tanks are not OP and that most of time these complaints come from "bad" players or are based on the lack of matchmaking; you can counter this argument by submitting examples that showcase that the issue is neither a lack of personal skill or poor matchmaking but you refuse to. You don't have prove anything, but your unwillingness to share a simple screenshot, video, or stream to help support your argument lends credence to my statements and undermines your own stance. I'll even go a step further and say that most damage dealing classes are stronger than they should be and that most players don't know how to play their class properly against a healer. On my home server t3-m4 the quality of dds is really bad. I can basically do whatever I want on my ophealer. They don't know how to use cc, whom to focus and even worse how to kill someone. Their damage is fluff and I can easily heal through it. The best dds usually have like 1200 dps On ToFN though, there are sometimes really good players qing for regs. Those players usually end up trying to stnlock me to death and succed if I don't have a breaker (well triple stealth opener is mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganthen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 im really not seeing what a lot of the fuss is about. So, ive been playing my jugg quite a bit the last couple of days and i have to be honest, im seeing a lack of healers. most of the sorcerers that enter are dps sorc's, as a tank, id have loved to see some heals in these last WZ's ive done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganthen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 also, the problem with WZ's is not healing, nor is it sorcerers, it's very bad matchmaking combined with entirely too much CC. I just got out of a WZ where my team was: 4 juggernaut, 3 sorcerer, 1 marauder. Other team had a better mix, but it was 4 sorcerer, a sniper, and a couple others i dont recall. from what im seeing, at least on harbinger, there have been very few heal sorcerers queueing up. also, the CC in this game needs to be cut in half. it's ridiculous the amount of root, stun and slow that is passed around. It's not uncommon to be rooted, take 2 steps, rooted again, take 2 or 3 more steps, stunned, then when you can finally move again, you are perma slowed by every class that has a slow embedded into one of their natural attacks, and there is not enough CC break to counter that. You have to time your stun break just right, but once it's gone, most classes are vulnerable for a minute and a half, which in pvp, is a very long time. tank spec juggs fair a little better because they can have 2 additional movement impairment breaks, but still only 1 stun break. But, even with 3 impairment breaks, it really does no good, because there is no cool down on slows, and apparently, resolve does nothing for root and slow, only stuns, so you can effectively be slowed the entire game. I've never understood why gaming companies feel that they have to completely overdo crowd control. It's CC that is breaking the game. The team with the most usually wins. Defense needs to have a bigger role in pvp, as it sits now, it does very little. There should be some sort of benefit for wanting to play a tank spec in pvp, but, most people just take the immortal jugg, and replace all of the enhancements and mods and make them into a dps jugg, which is fine. But you have people, like me, who want to play a protection spec. Granted, my skill with the jugg is fairly low right now, but im trying to learn. I don't do a lot of dps, my goal is to be a shield for other people, by guarding, interceding, and debuffing the other team. All of my defense, shielding does nothing when facing the 2 to 3 madness sorcerers on the other team, as defense doesn't affect internal damage, which is what dps sorcerers use, as well as some melee classes. anyway, sorry to hijack the thread, but just wanted to drop that in here. I think a bigger problem than healing is the CC, which nobody seems to want to address. also, has anyone noticed a bug in the resolve system as of late (like today)? ive been noticing that stuns are not registering resolve, at least from what ive seen. Normally a hard stun will give you full resolve, but twice tonight, I was hard stunned and never had a drop of resolve pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganthen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) another match: 5 sorcerers, 1 guardian, 1 merc and one op. 3 of the sorc were dps, 2 heal. Edited December 31, 2015 by Ganthen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) .....................But look at the PvP forums. Everybody's tired of chasing this uber specc through the map without the chance of even touching it.................. This is correct. The forums are, and the game itself is, full of appalling DPS players, with no concept of how to actually play their class, or the warzone/arena they are in. All they see is a target to hit, want to kill it, and when they fail, whine like kids with skinned knees. They have zero understanding of combined team play and next to no situational awareness. The latter is actually in my honest opinion, the biggest problem with crap players. Edited December 31, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Buiware just make it so a giid dps can shut down a good healer. That's all I ask. They don't have to kill them but as t leeway make it so they are ineffective with a top notch dps on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Eliminated the cool down on interupts in pvp. Change the meta on uninterlutable healing if need be. Edited December 31, 2015 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) You brought forth an argument that healers and tanks are OP, I (among others) countered that healers and tanks are not OP and that most of time these complaints come from "bad" players or are based on the lack of matchmaking; you can counter this argument by submitting examples that showcase that the issue is neither a lack of personal skill or poor matchmaking but you refuse to. Double standards, huh? You don't provide any screenshots to backup your opinion, but then you tell me to provide some to backup mine. Okay. Let's make a deal. You provide screenshots that show us what a great DPS you are and how you shut down healers on your own, and then I'll provide the screenshots that you wanted to see. Deal? Unless that you can't provide those screenshots because - obvioulsy - you're not the great DPSer that you pretend to be, but rather just a healer who's trying to avoid overdue incoming nerfs. Edited December 31, 2015 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganthen Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Buiware just make it so a giid dps can shut down a good healer. That's all I ask. They don't have to kill them but as t leeway make it so they are ineffective with a top notch dps on them. This is already the case. I posted a video in one of the other threads where I had a sentinel totally shut me down, and kill me, in the span of about 3 minutes. Last night, I was in a voidstar and had an assassin that was putting out so much damage that he got me down to about 1/3 health in no time flat, and someone else joined in, i was done. We met again a few minutes later in that match and, again, that time i was able to survive, but the margin was very close. Im starting to record all of the matches of my sorc healer, ive got about 5 or 6 videos up so far. I never claimed to be the best, but i think im fairly average, and my videos show it. Yeah, I can survive single dps attacks, problem is, they make me focus a lot more on myself than the rest of the team. That is the goal here isn't it? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEYPAPS3XORWA5Yn0gX9v-g for anyone that wants to take a look, (and no, im not fishing for views), but, I would think what you see in these videos represents the average person playing a sorc healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboooo Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Healing is way out of wack. I played 4 65 warzones yesterday. Where no one died it. It was boring as hell. Plus the made you get to 65 quicker. So there not much choice to either fight in 65 wz or quit. They can do what they want With healing. But I don't see how the game is going to go on, with 65 pvp like this. I know I'm looking for a new game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Double standards, huh? You don't provide any screenshots to backup your opinion, but then you tell me to provide some to backup mine. Okay. Let's make a deal. You provide screenshots that show us what a great DPS you are and how you shut down healers on your own, and then I'll provide the screenshots that you wanted to see. Deal? Unless that you can't provide those screenshots because - obvioulsy - you're not the great DPSer that you pretend to be, but rather just a healer who's trying to avoid overdue incoming nerfs. I'm not sure how I can show you a screenshot that highlights me shutting down a healer by myself, I can show you screenshots where I out dps my entire team. Some of these are older because they are what I have uploaded to the net. Pre 3.0 game vs 4 healers, I doubled the next highest person's dps Team ranked match vs double healer, this is pre 4.0 though I don't recall the actual patch Random solo queue reg arena vs double healer, I pulled 4-6x the dps of everyone else on my team 4.0 match that I solo queued into as a lightning sorc, both teams had a healer, notice that I pulled almost 2 million more damage than anyone else on both teams Solo queuing regs on my pt, we actually have two sorc healers here but still lose (perfect example of how healers =/= auto win, once again I out-dps the next highest dps on my team by ~900k) Arena vs 2 healers, slightly below 4k dps on my sentinel (I'm queued with the healer, but the other two are pugs) I'm not a screenshot whore, but I think these screenshots show that I can and do pull more than my fair share of dps and that having a stacked healing team does not equate to an auto win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta_leader_ Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I find it funny how everyone is like, "all DPS in this game are bad", "90% of healer are bads".. But everyone on the forums seems to be a pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I find it funny how everyone is like, "all DPS in this game are bad", "90% of healer are bads".. But everyone on the forums seems to be a pro A lot of the legitimately excellent PvPers hardly ever complain about anything. Perhaps that's just because they just play what works and don't get hung up on class diversity and what not. Certainly they need find no excuses for poor performance because they perform well. Full disclosure: I am a bad and don't consider myself one of the above mentioned excellent PvPers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) A lot of the legitimately excellent PvPers hardly ever complain about anything. Perhaps that's just because they just play what works and don't get hung up on class diversity and what not. Certainly they need find no excuses for poor performance because they perform well. Full disclosure: I am a bad and don't consider myself one of the above mentioned excellent PvPers. I think most of the actually good pvpers have one of every or almost every AC so they don't have to worry about what's strong and what's not. Edited December 31, 2015 by Iona_Var Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts