KOTFE just not worth the grind

[Lexhorn]

Depends on what you consider better? … what do you want to do? … you did start playing the most story driven MMO of all time….LOL

 

Have you completed all the planet quest, leveled all 8 classes?

Have you unlocked all your companions?

Maxed out all companion affection?

Are you in 220 or 224 gear?

Have you maxed out all your planetary factions?

How about guild conquests / personal conquests?

Have you maxed your crafting? Are you making 220 gear?

Have you completed all the exploration quests?

Max out your 4 outposts?

How about saving for your very own capital ship?

 

This will be great if, for any of the points you mentionned, we could find info's about how to start to do it...You speak about conquest and personal conquest, but it is totally impossible to find any info's about this, even on the official website ....Same for exploration quests, and 220 or 224 gear ...

[Kaedusz]

Well, there are other MMOs. However, I warn you, I did a little odessy and played the majority. of them. Im back here for a reason. You dont realize just how many things SWTOR got right until you subject yourself to the competition. Just my opinion of course.

 

This. So much this.

[TarkaBear]

This will be great if, for any of the points you mentionned, we could find info's about how to start to do it...You speak about conquest and personal conquest, but it is totally impossible to find any info's about this, even on the official website ....Same for exploration quests, and 220 or 224 gear ...

 

Dulfy.net for all your SWTOR and **** needs.

[teclado]

From the perspective of a casual gamer who has been here from literally day one, or one who is more inclined to the story. I have never played an ops in my life, I rarely ever pvp, except once in a blue moon. It's why my first mmo was SWG, (well Tibia actually). It's also why I never touched WoW because I was too scared. This might be a better argument, if the pvp people didn't berate the newbies each chance they have. PvPers would have to be the worst players for that reason, they want new wzs, yet they are unwilling to teach newbies. You don't want to know the amount of times I've seen someone kicked, because they weren't able to pvp with the best. Where's the logic in that.

I had never touched an operation until late 3.x, and I didn't think that I ever would (been here since day 1 also). I found a guild with some really awesome people that helped change my mind. Now I run 3-4 times a week. Just coordinating with a group of 8-16 players is challenging and fun. Voice comms really help.

 

I've done a ton of pvp. Yeah, some people can be really harsh, but they are easily ignored. If you like pvp, you should do it. Don't let a few jerks discourage you. Ignore and even minimize chat if you have to.

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "kicked" from pvp. I think that it's possible to initiate a votekick in a warzone (or at least it used to be), but it doesn't do anything - hence nobody uses it. I know for a fact that it is impossible to kick anybody from a warzone. That's actually why some pvpers go a bit insane - it's not possible to kick afkers or trolls (yeah, there can be a good number of them), whereas it's absolutely possible to votekick in ops or flashpoints.

 

Regarding KotFE: I agree that it is not worth the grind. I've run it on two of my 15 eligible characters. The story was interesting the first time. Gameplay was too easy (and therefore boring). The companion affection thing - why should I care, really? I have one of my companion's affection at 9, which is plenty good enough to solo anything that I want (even heroic SF - pre-nerf, post-nerf, post-buff). So, my motivation to grind it higher = zero. I don't even really feel like running heroics. I run ops and warzones, do a little crafting, then call it a day. When chapter X comes out, I'm not sure that I will even run it.

[MandFlurry]

Those people complaining there is nothing to do are too noob to know what to do and where to find it. Or are just burned out ,which means it is time for a break.

 

That's Exactly the point. Me and most ppl in my Guild went through the KOTFE content too fast and have also done all the Heroics, a lot of them are fully geared to, not all but enough geared that they are sick of playing the game now because of the Fact they went through content like a wildfire.

 

Ppl like me that are decades older than them are still playing catch, and may never get through all the new content with but a few of my characters.

 

So yes, a Lot of ppl now are tired of doing the same thing over and over again with the stuff i haven't even gotten' to on 1 character

 

So, for a good sum of people playing other games would be better for now until we get new content. I think it is bad to wait til' February for new Storyline content unless they're having a lot of /bugs. They should put new Storyline content in January instead, as I think February is a Huge mistake unless they are having a lot of /bugs.

 

So for a lot of ppl playing some other good games would be good to do for some til' we get new content.

[ekwalizer]

Well, there are other MMOs. However, I warn you, I did a little odessy and played the majority. of them. Im back here for a reason. You dont realize just how many things SWTOR got right until you subject yourself to the competition. Just my opinion of course.

 

You are definitely not wrong. I've tested the waters in other games, but for me it comes down to being Star Wars. SWG got me into MMOs back in 2003 and as long as there is a SW game on the market, I will play that. Whether or not I choose to pay for it is another matter

[LogunOne]

You are still confused.

I didn't say that it wasn't "end game", I said it wasn't Elder Game and that they are Side Games.

 

Can you get your story companions to max influence before level cap? Yes.

Can you participate in Conquest before level cap? Yes.

Can you get 100% conquest Bonus prior to level cap? Yes.

Can you do H2s before level cap? Yes.

By the way, the Guild Ship provides very little bonus for Conquest; pales in comparison to the 4 Stronghold (not Outpost) bonus.

 

 

Can you purchase level 65 PvP gear before level cap? No.

Can you earn level 65 raid-gear before level 65? No.

Can you reverse engineer level 65 items for crafting prior to level cap in both actual level and crafting level? No.

 

I didn't make the definition, but you trying to change it reminds me of "7th Base" from Big Bang Theory.

 

I think you have a very static outlook of what endgame is and isn’t. I’m breaking endgame down to its mechanics and intent, endgame (or elder game) is simply a retention mechanic it’s there to provide a sense of achievement or progression (real or perceived) to keep you interested in working towards a goal beyond the end of the levelling and story elements of the game.

Endgame simply is a system of repeatable contentment that over time nets a positive effect on the players and eventually rewards the player with a statistical advantage.

To say that end game needs to be (X) to be considered end game is a bit short-sighted.

I can point you to a dozen failed MMO that have used the endgame you describe, so I don’t think that formula is some secret sauce for a successful in MMO.

[ZanyaCross]

So I've put 4 toons both republic and empire through the new expansion. Honestly I can't even force myself to remotely care about the story.

 

You care so little about it that you put four characters through it already?

[DarthDymond]

You care so little about it that you put four characters through it already?

Honestly that was my first reaction, too, but on reflection it's not really that extreme at all. KotFE has been out for almost two months now, on average s/he'd only have to be putting an alt through the story every two weeks. Dulfy's estimates put the storyline at 6-7ish hours without spacebarring, so that would be like three or four hours a week spent on the story.

 

I've only got my main through it at this point, but I learned a while ago I am far, far at the slow end of the content-consumption spectrum for the forum crowd.

Edited December 15, 2015 by DarthDymond

[DizzD]

4-6hrs of story with no replay value.

Weeks of grind for no discernible gameplay advantage.

 

Seems legit.

[ekwalizer]

I think you have a very static outlook of what endgame is and isn’t. I’m breaking endgame down to its mechanics and intent, endgame (or elder game) is simply a retention mechanic it’s there to provide a sense of achievement or progression (real or perceived) to keep you interested in working towards a goal beyond the end of the levelling and story elements of the game.

Endgame simply is a system of repeatable contentment that over time nets a positive effect on the players and eventually rewards the player with a statistical advantage.

To say that end game needs to be (X) to be considered end game is a bit short-sighted.

I can point you to a dozen failed MMO that have used the endgame you describe, so I don’t think that formula is some secret sauce for a successful in MMO.

 

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I said very clearly:

I didn't say that it wasn't "end game", I said it wasn't Elder Game and that they are Side Games.

 

End Game and Elder Game are not the same thing.

 

End Game and Elder Game content can be the same thing, but the two terms are not interchangeable.

 

End Game can also be Side Games but Side games are not Elder Games.

 

Elder Game involves meaningful progression as the retention mechanic. Most of your examples are simply time-sinks. While Elder Gaming involves a time sink, it is a time-sink with a purpose. You are getting better.

 

Just because something is a time-sink doesn't mean it is either Elder or End Game content. Elder Gaming requires progression. There is no progression for H2s. There is no progression for Star Fortresses (even the Hard Mode - if you can do one you can do them all). There is no progression for Conquests, you either make the leader board or you do not. There is no progression for companion influence - you just love them up with gifts - that is just a credit sink. There is no progression in Stronghold decorating! All you have to do it put the items in it. You could literally get to 100% by buying stacks of couches and chairs and wall lights, etc and just throw them all in there.

 

No content allowing for sub-max level characters can be defined as Elder Game content. But not all "max" level content is Elder Game content. Old school level 50 SM flashpoints were END Game content, not Elder. Black Hole was not Elder Game content. Section X was not Elder Game content. The HK-51 quest arc was not Elder Game content.

 

I'll give you HMFPs, as they function like mini-Raids. But that is about as far into your examples as I will describe as Elder Game.

 

I have never said this game suffers from a lack of things to do at max level. There are plenty of hamster wheels and have been since 1.0. Plenty of content is not a new concept for this game.

 

You are confusing ample variety of content at max level with "Elder Game" and to an extent "End Game".

 

I'm sorry if the fact that words have meaning upsets you.

[Tsillah]

32 at last count.

 

Well I have 4 characters that are level 60 and 20 characters that are level 65. So I know the feeling.

 

I've done the KotFE story on 3 of them by now. That's a very low count for me. Also I am not going to do the alliance stuff on more than 1 character. Also to me it's not worth it and I really wish that the Alliance thing was linked to my legacy. I have lots of alts but I still can only play one at a time, so it's not like I suddenly have time to level 24 alliances separately.

 

So I won't. And it is kinda disappointing to me at the same time.

[LogunOne]

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I said very clearly:

 

 

End Game and Elder Game are not the same thing.

 

End Game and Elder Game content can be the same thing, but the two terms are not interchangeable.

 

End Game can also be Side Games but Side games are not Elder Games.

 

Elder Game involves meaningful progression as the retention mechanic. Most of your examples are simply time-sinks. While Elder Gaming involves a time sink, it is a time-sink with a purpose. You are getting better.

 

Just because something is a time-sink doesn't mean it is either Elder or End Game content. Elder Gaming requires progression. There is no progression for H2s. There is no progression for Star Fortresses (even the Hard Mode - if you can do one you can do them all). There is no progression for Conquests, you either make the leader board or you do not. There is no progression for companion influence - you just love them up with gifts - that is just a credit sink. There is no progression in Stronghold decorating! All you have to do it put the items in it. You could literally get to 100% by buying stacks of couches and chairs and wall lights, etc and just throw them all in there.

 

No content allowing for sub-max level characters can be defined as Elder Game content. But not all "max" level content is Elder Game content. Old school level 50 SM flashpoints were END Game content, not Elder. Black Hole was not Elder Game content. Section X was not Elder Game content. The HK-51 quest arc was not Elder Game content.

 

I'll give you HMFPs, as they function like mini-Raids. But that is about as far into your examples as I will describe as Elder Game.

 

I have never said this game suffers from a lack of things to do at max level. There are plenty of hamster wheels and have been since 1.0. Plenty of content is not a new concept for this game.

 

You are confusing ample variety of content at max level with "Elder Game" and to an extent "End Game".

 

I'm sorry if the fact that words have meaning upsets you.

 

Its the same thing ....

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/End-game

http://ca.ign.com/wikis/wildstar/Elder_Game

 

The terms are interchangeable ... and you think the traditional ..”raid your butt off for months”... has been meaningful when you and I both know when the level cap is raised the gear on our backs with the giant shoulder pads becomes garbage again ..... LOL. Frankly I rather grind for the rep for an exotic mount that at least doesn't get devalued with the next level increase.

Edited December 16, 2015 by LogunOne

[DreadtechSavant]

Disagree, but you don't have to like it OR even do it.

[ekwalizer]

It the same thing ....

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/End-game

http://ca.ign.com/wikis/wildstar/Elder_Game

 

The terms are interchangeable ... and you think the traditional ..”raid your butt off for months”... has been meaningful when you and I both know when the level cap is raised the gear on our backs with the giant shoulder pads becomes garbage again ..... LOL. Frankly I rather grind for the rep for an exotic mount that at least doesn't get devalued with the next level increase.

 

Well if it is on someone's Wiki it must be correct .....

 

As to the rest of your post, I largely agree. But I think it is a mistake to neglect "traditional" Elder Game content such that Bioware has, in favor of more "modern" Elder Game content.

[Vize]

I canceled and am stepping away from the game as well. Started July 2010 and it was a great ride. I tend to agree with most of the comments on here, but definitely not "rage-quitting". Maybe it's not having the time for the game, or maybe it's not making enough time for the game. We all know the game was going south for years and I was fine with that since it's the game I started with. This current foundation just gives me a "twilight zone" feeling where up is down and down is up. I see where they were coming from and the game needed a breath of fresh air and I'm sure we can all agree on that, I just personally don't choose to breath the new air is all.

 

With the new Star Wars movie coming out soon this game will be just fine for quite some time so I wish everybody well

[Bella-Anastasia]

How many casuals actually focus on end game? How many guilds have dozens of players but have a hard time fielding Ops teams? Or Conquest parties? Judging by the operations GF queue times and the insignificant number of GF L2P complaints there are a lot of casuals who want little more than a taste of true end game, if at all.

 

If MMO casuals are even close to 50% of the core SWTOR player base then Bioware was stupid (imho) for trashing the level appropriate vanilla design system in favor of a KOTOR 3 wannabe. Because that's half the player population who play SWTOR for a moderately challenging alt progression game. This game gave birth to the term "altoholic." I'm guessing that is why Bioware bumped the character slot capacity all the way up to 40 ... just in case. Yet they killed a moderately challenging alt progression early game by making it one size fits all. That's insulting to Star Wars fans who like choice in their actions, and action with their story.

 

I really wonder how many of those who lamented that SWTOR wasn't KOTOR have actually played KOTOR.

 

The many (as you assume) who burned out on the vanilla design were likely MMO vagabonds. Every MMO has them. They should not be what a AAA MMORPG developer builds their game around. Placating the vocal minority nearly killed this game before it got off the ground. Did they not learn?

 

Just like I wonder how many people are actually founders.....

 

I think you are wrong, I remember playing as Revan and watching him take off his mask and revealing his old self to me. I remember my shock as I found out that I was revan. I remember how you start on the endar spire and crash on taris, I remember killing davik and escaping taris' bombardment. I remember collecting the maps to find the star forge, and I remember the fight against malak and the cheat code that could turn him into a dancing twilek.

 

Should I go into my experience playing kotor 2? If so do I choose to talk about the restored content mod parts, you know with the droid planet?

 

The problem isn't the focus on story, it's the adherence to World of warcraft like gameplay. To the grind that was originally forced on us in the game, to having to repeat the same 5 to 7 types of quests four different times on each planet, to the disregard for the story by having situations set up where you are told "We are about to be killed, please come and help us." Yet you were practically forced to pick up all the sidequests after that, and then complete three of those side quests before actually saving the people that were just begging for you for help.

 

The gameplay could have been so much better, the mechanics could have been better, the quests and everything else could have been so much better. But instead of taking a risk and doing something somewhat new then, they decided to rehash the old, to give us what was already given us. Sure, they gave us story, choice and voice but that's all cinematic, the gameplay is disappointing then and now but with the grind gone, the forced side quests gone, and level sync, things are getting better.