Is Bioware/EA contractually obliged to keep this game going?

[Colow_Leper]

Hmm

 

As far as I can see, whether contractually obliged or not, the consensus of this discussion is that EA will spend as little as they can going forward.

 

It's likely, therefore, that the game itself will continue to suffer - which will be reflected in falling subscriptions as well as falling cartel market sales - thus forcing further cuts in development costs - and round and round we go.

 

Doesn't bode well for the long term.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Colow_Leper

[Keta]

EA still hasn't pulled the plug on Dark Age of Camelot. Seriously, it's still rolling along. I doubt there's any plan to pull the plug here. At least not by EA.

[Colow_Leper]

EA still hasn't pulled the plug on Dark Age of Camelot. Seriously, it's still rolling along. I doubt there's any plan to pull the plug here. At least not by EA.

 

I would think that they would, assuming that they're not making a loss - I just don't think that they'll be "pushing" the title.

[Falensawino]

You may want to read this then http://swtoreconomics.com/2015/12/10/an-analysis-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-from-eas-financial-reports/.

EA is paying a lot of money to have exclusive rights to develop a Star Wars MMO and that’s a big issue.

He's going to need to cite his sources for that.

 

Because Disney has two mobile star wars canon MMO's

1. Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes by EA Capital Games, released on November 24, 2015
   
2. Star Wars: Uprising by Kabam (not affiliated with EA), released on September 10, 2015
   

 

Then there's Disney Infinity 3.0 by Avalanche Software (not affiliated with EA), released on August 30, 2015. ( a PC game)

Edited December 12, 2015 by Falensawino

[DarthDymond]

He's going to need to cite his sources for that.

 

Because Disney has two mobile star wars canon MMO's

1. Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes by EA Capital Games, released on November 24, 2015
   
2. Star Wars: Uprising by Kabam (not affiliated with EA), released on September 10, 2015
   

 

Then there's Disney Infinity 3.0 by Avalanche Software (not affiliated with EA), released on August 30, 2015

Key word there is "mobile" - Disney retained the rights to make or license mobile and social Star Wars games, but EA has an exclusive licensing agreement to produce all big-budget Star Wars games.

 

The actual specifics of how they distinguish between the respective categories would likely be defined in pages and pages of the actual contract, spread across several sections, subsections and appendices. The quick-and-dirty summary they released for public consumption breaks it down as:

• "While EA studios will develop for the core Star Wars gaming audience, Disney Interactive will focus on delivering new Star Wars games for casual audiences on mobile, social, tablet, and online gaming platforms."
  

Edited December 12, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Colow_Leper]

He's going to need to cite his sources for that.

 

Because Disney has two mobile star wars canon MMO's

1. Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes by EA Capital Games, released on November 24, 2015
   
2. Star Wars: Uprising by Kabam (not affiliated with EA), released on September 10, 2015
   

 

Then there's Disney Infinity 3.0 by Avalanche Software (not affiliated with EA), released on August 30, 2015. ( a PC game)

 

It was stated earlier that the rights were for "non-mobile" - Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes and Star Wars: Uprising are mobile apps.

 

Disney Infinity is a "toys-to-life" sandbox game covering all of the Disney IP (although 3.0 was specifically set with the SW characters).

[Ghisallo]

EA still hasn't pulled the plug on Dark Age of Camelot. Seriously, it's still rolling along. I doubt there's any plan to pull the plug here. At least not by EA.

 

EA/Mythic doesn't run DAOC anymore... That and UO are run now by Broadsword Online Games... EA has a "Partnership" system where they publish and/or handle billing etc for independent development houses. It was apparently part of a severance deal for Mythic Co-founder Rob Denton, one of the co-founders of Mythic, who formed Broadsword with 14 other members of the Mythic staff who left with him. Heck it might even have been that while EA bought the Mythic Label they did not actually buy the IP. If they did wholely own the IP then I would find it hard to believe EA didn't call their lawyers the minute Mark Jacobs started the kickstarter for Camelot Unchained.

 

Also you miss why a game like DAOC keeps going anyway. I'll use EQ as an example. If EQ and EQ2 were still "successful" why did Sony sell em to a private equity company? Answer they weren't. They had kept both games going for so long because EQNext was still in development and when you have an IP that is completely tied to a video game you try to keep games in the public eye while the next one is in development.

 

Well after 3 complete tear downs and rebuilds of EQNext, finally followed by EQ Landmark, which is little better than a "pay us for the privilege of playing in a game that is a focus group for and beta test of features considered to be in EQNext, they aren't even CLOSE to a release date yet. So they had both in maintence mode for a bit but finally cut em loose.

 

This dynamic does NOT exist with Star Wars, you don't need to keep this IP in the playable space for it to be recognized and for fans to gobble up the next game when it is released. It is actually far easier to justify shutting down a game like Star Wars than it is a purely digital IP.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Ghisallo

[SaerethDL]

they need to have the funeral for this game already, its been dead a long time, and they just have it walking around like weekend at burney's

[DarthDymond]

they need to have the funeral for this game already, its been dead a long time, and they just have it walking around like weekend at burney's

Overall, I'm enjoying this game more since KotFE came out than I have since Oricon was released.

 

I don't begrudge anyone who finds that the game's current direction isn't their cup of tea and ceases supporting it, but that doesn't mean it's 'dead'.

[Colow_Leper]

Overall, I'm enjoying this game more since KotFE came out than I have since Oricon was released.

 

I don't begrudge anyone who finds that the game's current direction isn't their cup of tea and ceases supporting it, but that doesn't mean it's 'dead'.

 

I enjoyed it too - once... The replayability (or lack thereof) is where I have a problem. Playing a game should be something that you enjoy doing - further runs through 4.0 would be a chore for me. It wouldn't be so bad were I to have some guild mates along, but it's solo stuff (which is also somewhat of a change for the worse, I feel).

 

It's why I get the feeling that EA is just "going through the motions". Were they serious about this game for the future, then they'd be investing more time and effort in progressing class quests etc.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Colow_Leper

[Costello]

I get a feeling they get a better pay out if they can sink TOR.

 

With the many lay off's TOR has suffered I suspect the employee comes to the end of his contract and it isn't renewed, nothing new standard practice. However should the plug be pulled they may be hoping (or contractually obliged) for a farewell package, which would explain many of the choices.

 

So trashing the game does seem to be their goal. Which is a little comforting that the massive class imbalance, lack of end game content; with a short story where choices really don't matter is believed to be good for the game.

 

If people are finding replayability in Kotfe good for them. I suspect for many space bar has become the second most used key after spamming aoe damage to burn through the mobs. I'd be surprised if anyone came back for the story, played through Kotfe and will remain a sub to wait on February. I suspect if story is your big lure then 1 hour in February may seem a little light and better off waiting till next December and getting a good chunk.

 

Likewise if the level 60 freebie was used to play through Kofte its replay value is already limited as they only have one character to play it with. If you couldn't get a level 60 character over the last 4 years you aren't going

[Ghisallo]

I enjoyed it too - once... The replayability (or lack thereof) is where I have a problem. Playing a game should be something that you enjoy doing - further runs through 4.0 would be a chore for me. It wouldn't be so bad were I to have some guild mates along, but it's solo stuff (which is also somewhat of a change for the worse, I feel).

 

It's why I get the feeling that EA is just "going through the motions". Were they serious about this game for the future, then they'd be inversting more time and effort in progressing class quests etc.

 

This pretty much my issue. First go through... Decent. I expected a more compelling ending to chapter 9, a cliff hanger of sorts to encourage people to come back for Chapter 10 but it wasn't bad. The problem is this... The story being shared made dragging my 2nd level 60 a boring experience I had to force myself through. At least in SoR I had that once class specific chapter to look forward to but I can't bring myself to do it on a third.

 

Moving onto the " playable" content, First the OP state and now the not quite as OP state means that both of my characters don't even have gearing up to look forward too as an incentive to grind out side of even just SM OPs because the purchased 220 gear is underwhelming, but how many more times can I do encounters that are 2-3 years old?

 

I woukd have NO problem paying a subscription for the next two months if there was simply something new to do, story and solo quests would be fine. I played this game for my first year on my own, no guild etc because I had new stuff to do. Once I finished one character, even with many of the same side quests, the story quests were unique. Now different people may have different tolerances of boredom, but I don't know many people who could tell me honestly "yeah I definitely stay subscribed non-stop when the only knew thing I will see is going to be episodic content on a monthly to bi-monthly basis and fluff rewards."

[Colow_Leper]

I woukd have NO problem paying a subscription for the next two months if there was simply something new to do, story and solo quests would be fine. I played this game for my first year on my own, no guild etc because I had new stuff to do. Once I finished one character, even with many of the same side quests, the story quests were unique. Now different people may have different tolerances of boredom, but I don't know many people who could tell me honestly "yeah I definitely stay subscribed non-stop when the only knew thing I will see is going to be episodic content on a monthly to bi-monthly basis and fluff rewards."

 

I agree - if what is coming out is short, single thread, solo chapters, then they'd need to be putting out a new chapter every couple of weeks in order to keep our attention. If the players have to wait for a couple of months or more each time, there's going to be less and less people about - and a lot of those that are still about will only be concentrating on a few alts.

 

Mind you, seeing as it seems to be taking them a month or more to get a new patch to work properly, could you imagine what the game would be like with a new patch every fortnight?

[LordJestR]

I always felt this particular forum is filled with people who think content is made by having a monkey bash a keyboard for a few hours. No concept of master plan, timetable, weekly schedule, work phases whatsoever.

 

But I guess that is to be expected of people who is so free they can type long paragraphs about whether a video is going to "die".

[Ghisallo]

I always felt this particular forum is filled with people who think content is made by having a monkey bash a keyboard for a few hours. No concept of master plan, timetable, weekly schedule, work phases whatsoever.

 

But I guess that is to be expected of people who is so free they can type long paragraphs about whether a video is going to "die".

 

I would like to think most people get the concepts of plans, budgeting and schedules. Most of the complaints I see are people disagreeing with the decisions surrounding those three topics, not denying they exist.

[Colow_Leper]

I always felt this particular forum is filled with people who think content is made by having a monkey bash a keyboard for a few hours. No concept of master plan, timetable, weekly schedule, work phases whatsoever.

 

But I guess that is to be expected of people who is so free they can type long paragraphs about whether a video is going to "die".

No no - I can appreciate the effort involved - unfortunately, with the development teams shrinking, there's not going to be enough "effort" to go around.

 

You see, the thing is, someone can come along and say "You have no idea how much effort is involved" - but there's a huge amount of "effort" involved in getting anything to market - if you bought the latest iPhone and it didn't work, would you shrug and say "well, it takes a lot of effort to make a phone that actually works"?

 

And, I may add, these forums are not really a way of getting feedback to the company (unfortunately) the moderators are somewhat "selective" about what they respond to. They are much more to do with "chewing the fat" about what people think about new content and whether or not the game is going to continue to be viable.

[Colow_Leper]

But I guess that is to be expected of people who is so free they can type long paragraphs about whether a video is going to "die".

 

It's not a "video" - a "video" is a stand alone item - that's the end of it.

 

Titles like SWTOR are on-going entities with lives of their own - without proper care they will "die" ie cease to attract the required numbers to sustain them.

 

And yes, we are "free" to criticise - we pay the money that keeps this game going in the first place.

 

Oh - and it's "are so free", not "is".

Edited December 12, 2015 by Colow_Leper

[LordJestR]

You see, the thing is, someone can come along and say "You have no idea how much effort is involved" - but there's a huge amount of "effort" involved in getting anything to market - if you bought the latest iPhone and it didn't work, would you shrug and say "well, it takes a lot of effort to make a phone that actually works"?

 

This example is kinda stupid. But I do appreciate the attention. You have to forgive any typos as I am on my phone but I try to pay more attention.

[DarthDymond]

And, I may add, these forums are not really a way of getting feedback to the company (unfortunately) the moderators are somewhat "selective" about what they respond to.

Community Team doesn't post replies to many of the players' posts =/= Community Team doesn't read and pass along the content of those posts to the development teams.

[LordJestR]

I would like to think most people get the concepts of plans, budgeting and schedules. Most of the complaints I see are people disagreeing with the decisions surrounding those three topics, not denying they exist.

 

Well the complaints I have seen are pretty much the equivalent of the spoilt kid, after opening all the presents, start screaming about why hee didn't get the toy he wants for Christmas.

[Ghisallo]

Well the complaints I have seen are pretty much the equivalent of the spoilt kid, after opening all the presents, start screaming about why hee didn't get the toy he wants for Christmas.

 

UMMM you need to look in context. Devs are QUOTED as saying they begin new PvE content upon KotFE launch (SDCC cantina). The dev who made the post explaing the why "recycled" PvE content and not new said it was a one time measure to make said future development easier. THEN yesterday they say "no plans for new PvE content."

 

This is a matter of people getting their back up because, at best they were simply strung along, at worst they were outright lied to. There is a difference.

[Savej]

...THEN yesterday they say "no plans for new PvE content."...

 

... that BW can tell us about. Note that story content and things like new planets are, technically, PVE content. But nothing in EM's statement was the equivalent of him saying "nothing's happening with new fps and raids".

[Ghisallo]

... that BW can tell us about. Note that story content and things like new planets are, technically, PVE content. But nothing in EM's statement was the equivalent of him saying "nothing's happening with new fps and raids".

 

No it was NOT what they can tell us bout... please reread it. he was rather clear... new story content and a single PvP warfront, that's it. No new, lets use the term "repeatable" PvE content.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Savej]

No it was NOT what they can tell us bout... please reread it. he was rather clear... new story content and a single PvP warfront, that's it. No new, lets use the term "repeatable" PvE content.

 

EM:

 

"We know you are looking for more information on the timing of future group content. Although I cannot go into any details yet I will say this… We are actively working on a new Warzone, and we are looking to start revealing details in February (Insert my usual disclaimer of all things are subject to change). On the PvE side, we do not have anything specific to announce at this time but we will certainly share more information as we have it."

 

"nothing to announce" != nothing is being worked on. The new wz existed and was known about by some unmentionable methods almost 6 mos ago but only now are we getting announcements about it.

[DarthDymond]

Devs are QUOTED as saying they begin new PvE content upon KotFE launch (SDCC cantina). The dev who made the post explaing the why "recycled" PvE content and not new said it was a one time measure to make said future development easier. THEN yesterday they say "no plans for new PvE content."

I am of the opinion that BW may end up producing more Ops or they may not - largely depending on how well the KotFE model performs. But my personal theory aside, when Eric said that they "do not have anything specific to announce at this time" on PVE that does not at all contradict what was said about starting development on new PVE content after KotFE's launch.

 

They are only just now in a position to announce the work underway on a new PVP map, and still two months out from officially announcing what it will actually be. But it's not like they just started work on that map recently. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that, just to throw out some random, purely hypothetical time-frames, they had been laying the groundwork for it for months already, and to get to that point they would have had to be developing it on their internal dev shards for a good while before even that.

 

Even if they started development on a new Operation the very next day after KotFE launched, we'd still be in "nothing to announce" territory for a few more months at this point.