power-alex Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Did bioware break it? You have to play it absolutely perfectly, i.e. know exactly when burst is coming and be ready to heal up, use gcds. It is a total pug killer this time around. Why make it so difficult? I thought events were for fun, not for hardcore raiders. Edited December 9, 2015 by power-alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastLady Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I agree with u, we was yday in with 16ppl HM on T3-M4, all with 208 gear or better, 3 quick hits and our main Tank, a Shadow, falls down. Not fun atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 good, will check him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoAtreidesII Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Yeah, it seems like they broke it. This is the first time we've seen Xeno HM since he was scaled up to 65, and I believe they've overtuned it. Tanks just get crushed by normal hits - and we're talking about well geared tanks in all 220-224 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Are you not entertained ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 it was actually a lot of fun compared to last time gree were up. top the tanks and have them swap for thermal as it should be. dps taking aggro= one shot through barrier+healing trance so drop threat lol. dps check on cores was fine, we did it with 3 dps who stayed on the boss all the cores all the time. well scaled in my opinion, could have to kick some pug on wipes eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahrdol Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 We were having issues with SM let alone HM. One pug 16 M 0-3 story. Then I join 8 man and we completed but 1/2 people died in burn phase. Eyeless was pretty bad last rak event too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionAlpha Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Did 16man HM full pug on JC, 2 shotted it (2% on 1st attempt). Was pretty trivial to be honest. 2 Sintanks 3 merc healers 1 sorc healer Various classes of dps, very melee heavy though. Edited December 9, 2015 by LegionAlpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memo- Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Solotanked 8m HM on an Assassin. The damage was high (around 4.7k DTPS), but nothing unhealable. Adds are much easier than they used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardimuer Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 This sounds like a typical case of mechanics too stronk. It is normal for tanks to take more damage when they have the debuff from the boss, thus the need for a tank swap on the boss after his channel. Also, whichever tank has the debuff needs to be extremely careful when kiting adds. Obviously, it's easier with Assassin/Shadow tanks that can just stealth out to break the channel before getting stacks. The other tank classes have to do some fancy LOSing if they want to break the channel early. Eyeless was pretty bad last rak event too... Really? I tanked Eyeless 16man HM last event on a Sin tank with only 70k HP. The group had no issues. But I had good healers, I knew when to use my defensive cooldowns, and I had a cotank who swapped with me whenever I ran out of defensive cooldowns. In other words, we performed the mechanics correctly and succeeded as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 This sounds like a typical case of mechanics too stronk. We had 2 tanks both 216-224 geared and knew what they were doing. Debuff wasn't the issue. I'm not saying it's impossible. I personally pugged it 3 times already. I'm saying that it is unnecessarily stressful and borderline impossible for casual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimsblood Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 We had 2 tanks both 216-224 geared and knew what they were doing. Debuff wasn't the issue. I'm not saying it's impossible. I personally pugged it 3 times already. I'm saying that it is unnecessarily stressful and borderline impossible for casual players. I would like to make some sort of comment here about how you ARE a casual, but that really doesn't address this thread. If they reduce the damage output in this fight, then there is nothing for anyone to be engaged in. The mechanics already don't punish you. The only thing that does is the damage the boss does to a SINGLE TARGET. Two healers should just be pumping heals into a tank. A tank should also realize how intense the damage is and begin to rotate CD's. Since you usually have 2 tanks, both tanks should rotate CD's. The answer to this fight is to "push your buttons people!" Play your class, enjoy the challenge and then get the reward. The reward is not something that you are entitled to, it is there to prepare you for the next level of content (yeah, yeah...we don't have a next level in the foreseeable future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) If they reduce the damage output in this fight, then there is nothing for anyone to be engaged in. that is simply not true. There are a lot of interesting mechanics - tank swap on thermal tolerance, cores, kill adds, click panels. Quite thrilling burn phase with people dying all around. I'm just comparing it to the way it used to be, and we never had a problem with tanks dying to normal boss attacks. Are you saying before people had nothing to be engaged in in this fight? I think you're wrong. Edited December 10, 2015 by power-alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimsblood Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 that is simply not true. There are a lot of interesting mechanics - tank swap on thermal tolerance, cores, kill adds, click panels. Quite thrilling burn phase with people dying all around. I'm just comparing it to the way it used to be, and we never had a problem with tanks dying to normal boss attacks. Are you saying before people had nothing to be engaged in in this fight? I think you're wrong. It is true: 1) Thermal Tolerance: If the damage is less, than it is possible for a tank to just not swap. Also, having the second tank taunt during a really long cast is not engaging. That is like telling a dps to push his offensive CD when he needs to do more damage. 2) Cores: can be ignored. Missing them does not punish you. I skipped cores last night because the dps wasn't meeting the check for the fight. On top of that, cores do not need to be tanked or killed in certain orders. You do not need to open them up to damage in any way. You just switch a target and dps. There is no raid damage during this phase for healers. There are no mechanics for tanks. The health pool on the cores is not tuned enough to force your tanks and healers to put out damage. 3) Adds: Kiting a group of adds around is not that engaging, although it is something. However, the damage they put out will be more than the boss if you pull the bosses damage down. The next argument we will see on the forums will be "why do ADDS do more damage than the boss!?!?!?! PLS NERF." I will give you like 1/3 of a point for the adds just because they hit so hard. 4) Panels: Sooooooooooooooooo, clicking on a panel when you have ~30 seconds to do so is an engaging and challenging mechanic? REALLY!? Really dude? Come on! That's like saying clicking on your class buff is a engaging mechanic for raids -_- 5) Burn phase: I can give a point here to it being engaging. But, do you nerf the damage in the burn phase if you nerf the rest of the boss damage? The burn phase isn't that hard if your tanks know how to taunt the boss or if your healers know how to heal. If they don't, people will start to die which can push the adrenaline up and engage the others. Personally, this fight was never engaging before. I went into it the first week it was launched in 16 M HM and we one or two shot it (memory is a little fuzzy) and just sort of ignored it. It was more a waste of time than anything else. But that's just me. I think the fights need to be looked at as a whole. Xeno doesn't require complex mechanics. Xeno requires your healers to heal ONE target and your tank to rotate CD's. Those are the basic jobs of those two roles. They are simply forced to do them. If they don't...then you wipe. I think that is fair. If you don't do your work, should you get paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) I'm not saying it's impossible. I personally pugged it 3 times already. I'm saying that it is unnecessarily stressful and borderline impossible for casual players. Wait, you're talking about SM or HM? If it's the latter, maybe you should remember what the "H" in there stands for. I give you a hint, it's not for "Hand me the loot":rolleyes: Edited December 10, 2015 by Torvai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) It is true: tough crowd. Every mechanic when understood, can be referred to as 'eh'. Your arrogance is noted though. So boss dealing over half of tanks hp in one hit makes this fight more engaging to you? From what you say I understand that you haven't even done this fight this event, so why write here? Wait, you're talking about SM or HM? If it's the latter, maybe you should remember what the "H" in there stands for. I give you a hint, it's not for "Hand me the loot":rolleyes: is it for Hand me the loot right now? dude, I'm comparing this fight to what it was before and it was called HM then as well. I just think that greatly increased damage on normal boss attacks is uncalled for. Anyway, I've adjusted and told my groups what to expect from this fight, we have been able to clear it in 2 tries with every group. In the end, when boss dies, everyone is thrilled and congratulates each other feeling like they achieved something, which is great. But I'm afraid that many groups fail and come out frustrated and with a feeling like they wasted their time and credits, which is what this thread is about. This event is kind of rare and rewards are unique. It used to be a lot simpler and still not a complete faceroll which was perfect for a boss fight which you can fight once per toon per several month. Edited December 10, 2015 by power-alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasTheLost Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Before 4.0 wasn't this boss level 55? Can't remember. If it was, than that's why it was easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auroroavalor Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 So the damage profile for a HM boss is in line with other HM bosses that aren't EV/KP. I'm sorry mate, but I've healed and tanked this fight repeatedly on 8m and 16m and the only thing interesting is the spike damage, and even then, it's pretty pathetic, sub 3k EHPS which is less healing than say SM sword Squadron at level 60. you may want to consider that either your healers were bad, or your group was HM EV ready which actually means you should stick to SM. #carriedby3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowflit Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Two healers should just be pumping heals into a tank. A tank should also realize how intense the damage is and begin to rotate CD's." Yes, this is the way to clear Xeno HM. However, for an event driven fight that will primarily be pugged, the burstiness of the damage is unfriendly. Especially when people doing the fight only remember the old versions and are coming at the new version fresh. It doesn't need to be changed, it's just unfriendly. If the damage output was the same but averaged out, then healers (and tanks) would have no trouble with the fight. It would be obvious that tanks need a lot of heals, and similarly clear that tanks need to rotate CDs. The problem is the [dodge, 80% shielded and topped off, dodge, 40%, dead] pattern. Without incinerate being a factor. With one or two healers simply focusing the tank with spam heals, there's no issue. Spam healing falls in your same unengaging category though. Frenzy phases? Fine. The entire time a tank is tanking the boss? Bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) So far, I've killed the boss three times in HM this week and I do feel it is overtuned. The tanks receive very large hits, the healers need to constantly focus heal the tank and the DPS check is quite tight. Yes, the boss is doable, and easily doable with a guild group who knows what they're doing, but an event boss like this should not be difficult. After all, it is part of the event and I feel that everyone who wants to do the event should be able to do it. It is not fun when a single boss takes more than an hour because organizing a PuG 16-man group takes so much time and you have to motivate players to not leave after the first wipe. But the main reason why I think this boss should be nerfed is because it is pretty much the only source of Gray Helix Components (ignoring the heroic quest because it only rewards one Gray Helix per day). Now that the devs added tons of Gree decorations to the vendor, you need hundreds if not thousands of Gray Helix Components and that is not possible if you can only run SM with a PuG group. Of course, they could also just offer another way to farm Gray Helix Components without nerfing the boss, or reduce the vendor prices; I'd be fine with that as well. Edited December 11, 2015 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caphalon Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 So the damage profile for a HM boss is in line with other HM bosses that aren't EV/KP. I'm sorry mate, but I've healed and tanked this fight repeatedly on 8m and 16m and the only thing interesting is the spike damage, and even then, it's pretty pathetic, sub 3k EHPS which is less healing than say SM sword Squadron at level 60. you may want to consider that either your healers were bad, or your group was HM EV ready which actually means you should stick to SM. #carriedby3.0 I do agree with you, except for the burn phase. The boss hits with ~80k hits and no defstats except for shield, absorbs damage and damage taken reduced work at all. And i do mean none. I mainlay play Assassin and he has no usefull defs except for dark ward. Defence Chance(MR/FT) is useless so Deflection as well as Force Cloak have no effect. Damage reduction is useless as well so he hits through armor and Overcharge Saber is useless except for it's heal. Recklessness does help but if he hits through your shield you're dead. On the other hand most raidutilitys like Sniper Shield and Sonic Rebounder work so in most 16m raids u have at least some of those and the new tank adrenal works as well .Maybe they just intended the burn like that. Kill him before he kills you. Nonetheless this boss in 16m sm hits harder(only in burn) than ANY 8m NiM boss(can't speak for 16m NiM because i don't run those) which might be overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 We had 2 tanks both 216-224 geared and knew what they were doing. Debuff wasn't the issue. I'm not saying it's impossible. I personally pugged it 3 times already. I'm saying that it is unnecessarily stressful and borderline impossible for casual players. in fact it was healers fault. keep them topped. one can even die if out of cds, the deal is that no dps should die and you should click fast the console. why is bad if an HM raid boss is hard for casuals? don't they have enough content to faceroll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasTheLost Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 After all, it is part of the event and I feel that everyone who wants to do the event should be able to do it. It is not fun when a single boss takes more than an hour because organizing a PuG 16-man group takes so much time and you have to motivate players to not leave after the first wipe. Everyone can do it. SM is a walk in the park and it's for everyone. I healed my group yesterday only using kolto shots and I'm far from being a good healer and far from optimized gear. Actually I had to ask my group to please do something that damages them cuz I'm bored. HM is different and it's definitely not for everyone. Didn't managed to down it cuz my tank toon is not so good yet and we lacked dps. But it's doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I mainlay play Assassin and he has no usefull defs except for dark ward. [...] Nonetheless this boss in 16m sm hits harder(only in burn) than ANY 8m NiM boss(can't speak for 16m NiM because i don't run those) which might be overkill. Why do I get the feeling you never set foot in a NiM instance when you think dark ward is a def cd? Also, bosses like raptus and calphayus may want a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caphalon Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) Why do I get the feeling you never set foot in a NiM instance when you think dark ward is a def cd? Also, bosses like raptus and calphayus may want a word with you. I only named Dark Ward because it is the only assassin skill that helps against the hits in his burn phase. No idea why but those hits go through damage reduction and ignore defence chance(FT and MR) but they can be shielded. And In his burn phase he actually hits as hard as raptus just that pretty much every real def is useless(again why i mentioned dark ward). Edit: And every hit is as hard as raptus' abilities like rising slash. So imagine raptus doing one every 3 seconds without you flying to safety. Edited December 11, 2015 by Caphalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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