Setta Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Han Solo (best of the best smuggler) loses to Vader (best of the best Warriors) likely to Palpatine (best of the best Inquisitor) Luke (best of the best knight) as I don't recall in any reading that it was Han who stopped a Dark Side Luke. News @ 11, Han Solo shoots a tie fighter with his Millennium Falcon, destroying it along with the tie fighter next to it, while knocking Vader of course all with a single shot. Not only saving Luke's life, and allowing Luke to destroy the Death Star thus saving millions or even billions of people, but taking out the 2nd most powerful force user out of commission at the time. They do have plot armors to beat the force users one on one. They have no force ability to resist a force choke. One on one, that's all the force user had to do. Jedi don't force choke people. Not unless they want to be corrupted. In fact, if you actually pay attention to canon, Jedi hardly use force powers to win fights. They mostly use their light sabers, with a little bit of force powers to gain an edge. The force powers being the ability to let them jump high / move fast, or telekinesis to push people a short bit, or recover their light saber, when disarmed. Sith ok sure, they're different. They don't care if they force lightning everything or force choke everyone. Yet that's only half the force users. Also why do people always assume it's going to be a fight starting at close range, where the force user is in good position and has line of sight on the target? Seriously the hell is wrong with people? I can flip the terrain in the other's favor just as easily. Sith doesn't know that there's a sniper ready to kill him, with booby traps set along the path to the sniper. Grenades, mines, sonic disuptors, a force field on the sniper just incase, all tools that could easily be used to take a Sith out. Good chance that the Sith dies before the fight even starts, unless he has some sort of special immortality bs going on like Darth Sion, or someone similar. But hey the best of the best has to be mentally retarded in every scenario so the Sith can force choke them, and win the argument. Logic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannotDeny Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 -snip- But hey the best of the best has to be mentally retarded in every scenario so the Sith can force choke them, and win the argument. Logic..... The Sith or Jedi don't have to be mentally retarded either to walk into bombs and traps. Literally just use the force to move the mines/grenades back onto the sniper and deflect the blaster shots. Because that's the whole point of precognition and lightsabers. You could definitely screw them up with multiple blaster fire from different angles since they'd still have to react and block it, but steady and slow accurate sniper shots will never really hit a decent user. Call it god mode if you want, it is what it is. We could go back and forth on this all day but I'm always going to think a force user in general trumps a normal guy, even if he's skilled. Or else we might as well not even have "Star Wars" and just call it "Star Trek". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabenschwinge Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) While this is a video game, there are always constraints towards the script I'd like them to: 1) Stick with the story this time. No more "and now something completely different" unless the previous story is really concluded. The gap between Ziost and Knights of the Fallen Empire was massive. The link between them, that The Emperor, Vitiate and Valkorian are really somehow the same person appears highly artificial and hardly plausible. They neither look, sound, nor behave similar. I am not a fan of the current story as is, but it's better to stick with it than throw it all over board again and start with something different. 2) Sometimes it can be helpful for the to have really subtle schemes. The the enemy is immortal, has been killed at least twice and is still alive and can do anything he wishes is rubbish. Not even the Emperor in the original movies could do that. The tension between Vaylin and Arcann is something interesting to work with for example. Everyone expects Vaylin to become truly unleashes and replace Arcann in some way. Please do not make it that simple! There might be something deeper. Arcann's goals might not be as obvious as it appears and this might all be a scheme that does actually involve putting Vaylin on the Eternal Throne. 3) Let combat play out in the game, not in cut scenes. Particularly: Abstain from using excessive push backs against which there is no defence and throw the player character (and his allies) around for hundreds of meter. It has become all too obvious that pushing people around using Force powers has become a major means of story telling, because otherwise you wouldn't know how to get the actors where you need them for the next scene. A bit more subtle approaches and at least the resemblance of a choice would be nice. I think a lot of the discussion regarding the difficulty in the game in the forum is due to the fact, that the cut scenes make combat irrelevant. If the game wants you to loose a fight, you loose. If the game wants another actor to push your character around like a doll, he will. And there is nothing you can do about it. The cut scenes prove that fighting in the story is irrelevant, because the outcome is already set anyway and the other actor is so powerful that they could have defeated you any time they wanted to. They just chose not to. Even characters such as Senya nonchalantly remove the player character from the scene. 4) The story should have at least two different path in which it can split up. Some choices should matter. Particularly, design the cut scenes so that the player character is actually in control of things. 5) Give the player character at least the impression they were in control of thing. Even if the story splits up it's still scripted. But right now we're feeling like being pushed around by others and being merely a figurehead for the alliance whose true leader is Lana. A very good example where it was done better was the Imperial story ark for Makeb. One had the impression that the player character was actually the leader of the team, even though you couldn't really decide anything. It can sometimes help to let the player character come up with a scripted idea in a cut scene. 6) Involve the Gravestone in the gameplay. A space battle in which the player commands the Gravestone in player perspective from the bridge would be something I'd like to see. I've always been waiting for something like this in Mass Effect (with the Normandy of course). I realize that it is a tough thing to make interesting, but that's the challenge, isn't it. Edited December 9, 2015 by Rabenschwinge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setta Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Sith or Jedi don't have to be mentally retarded either to walk into bombs and traps. Literally just use the force to move the mines/grenades back onto the sniper and deflect the blaster shots. Well the good news is that no matter how flawed your opinion is, you're 100% entitled to it. Sorry, but Jedi don't constantly know everything that's going to happen, never have never will. If they did Anakin would never have been trained as a Jedi. The clones order 66 would have been seen through by at least one Jedi master and they'd have been warned ahead of time by their god mode premonitions. There are about a million other flaws in your so "God mode premonitions", that I could go through and pick off 1 by 1, but honestly it would be a waste of my time. Sure Jedi and Sith can get a sort of premonitions, they're usually vague as ****, and at best help guide the force user to make some sort of choice down the road. Though I don't know of any on the spot combat decisions that it's ever helped with, unless you count deflecting blaster bolts with a light saber as one of them (not actually the same thing). Battle meditation, which actually requires the force user in question to be meditating are much more accurate, and can help the tide of combat via premonitions but that's not happening in combat either since the force user would actually have to be meditating, so nix that also. Point being is if the traps aren't visible they're not going to see it. Take a look at the battle between Pong Krell and the clone troopers. Ya he wiped the floor with the fodder, but all it took was 1 trooper with a plan to distract him, and lure him into a trap, and that was pretty much the end of that Jedi (Dark Jedi, w/e you wanna call him) . Then after that they stunned his *** with a blaster and took him into custody. Killing him was pretty simple after that too, despite him being awake for it. He didn't use his uber god mode to escape as so many people on here would claim is super easy to do, because "MAGIC!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannotDeny Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Well the good news is that no matter how flawed your opinion is, you're 100% entitled to it. Sorry, but Jedi don't constantly know everything that's going to happen, never have never will. If they did Anakin would never have been trained as a Jedi. The clones order 66 would have been seen through by at least one Jedi master and they'd have been warned ahead of time by their god mode premonitions. There are about a million other flaws in your so "God mode premonitions", that I could go through and pick off 1 by 1, but honestly it would be a waste of my time. Sure Jedi and Sith can get a sort of premonitions, they're usually vague as ****, and at best help guide the force user to make some sort of choice down the road. Though I don't know of any on the spot combat decisions that it's ever helped with, unless you count deflecting blaster bolts with a light saber as one of them (not actually the same thing). Battle meditation, which actually requires the force user in question to be meditating are much more accurate, and can help the tide of combat via premonitions but that's not happening in combat either since the force user would actually have to be meditating, so nix that also. Point being is if the traps aren't visible they're not going to see it. Take a look at the battle between Pong Krell and the clone troopers. Ya he wiped the floor with the fodder, but all it took was 1 trooper with a plan to distract him, and lure him into a trap, and that was pretty much the end of that Jedi (Dark Jedi, w/e you wanna call him) . Then after that they stunned his *** with a blaster and took him into custody. Killing him was pretty simple after that too, despite him being awake for it. He didn't use his uber god mode to escape as so many people on here would claim is super easy to do, because "MAGIC!!" No dude that's not what I meant. They have spider-sense, so they can quickly react in the moment. Obviously a bunch of blaster fire from different angle will demolish them, but I didn't mean god-mode premonition like you seem to think. It's literally a quick reflex/nudge that something is wrong right before it happens, not minutes before or something. I don't know why you think I said god mode, you must really hate Force Users if you rag on them so much. Just saying man it's what differentiates Star Wars from every other space sci fi. I'd rather keep them overpowered in the end. And yes traps will work, that's dirty fighting after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analyst Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I am not completely sure, but I had an impression that Force-users "danger sense" helped them predict the opponent's decisions and sense intent to kill, directed at them. I emphasize - opponent and intent. I had an impression that it wouldn't work against inanimate threat (droids, automatic traps) or someone outside the Force perception. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was the most problematic aspect of fighting Yuuzhan Vong for the Force users: being invisible to the Force, they couldn't be predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setta Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 No dude that's not what I meant. They have spider-sense, so they can quickly react in the moment. but I didn't mean god-mode premonition like you seem to think. It's literally a quick reflex/nudge that something is wrong right before it happens, not minutes before or something. Since the clone wars cartoon are still considered canon as far as I know. Here's your spider senses at work by a Jedi Master. I'll find some movie references for you later if you like, (this was just on hand so) I don't know why you think I said god mode, you must really hate Force Users if you rag on them so much. Just saying man it's what differentiates Star Wars from every other space sci fi. I'd rather keep them overpowered in the end. And yes traps will work, that's dirty fighting after all! Your quotes : Call it god mode if you want, it is what it is. The Sith or Jedi don't have to be mentally retarded either to walk into bombs and traps. Literally just use the force to move the mines/grenades back onto the sniper and deflect the blaster shots. Because that's the whole point of precognition and lightsabers. Do you not how a trap works, or mines for that matter? Cause it's either you don't understand that they're hidden and are sprung on you when it's to late too react, or truly do believe that they (force users) will know what's going to happen before it does and can avoid all sorts of dangers, all the time, despite evidence to the contrary. Also dirty fighting? Seriously? Cause as the saying goes there's no such thing as a fair fight, and honestly other then Jedi, and maybe a few select people, everyone fights dirty. The Sith even preach that ****. Hell I imagine there are even Jedi who fight dirty as well but I digress. Anyways, no I don't hate force users. Obi-Wan & Yoda are two of my favorite SW characters, who would easily make my top 5, maybe top 3 even. I do hate the idea that people buy into that force users are on some DBZ level **** and can't be stopped by anyone other than another DBZ force user, when that's clearly not true with evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Anyways, no I don't hate force users. Obi-Wan & Yoda are two of my favorite SW characters, who would easily make my top 5, maybe top 3 even. I do hate the idea that people buy into that force users are on some DBZ level **** and can't be stopped by anyone other than another DBZ force user, when that's clearly not true with evidence to the contrary. So your favorite two Jedi are ones that were never killed by normals because they were the awesome force users and not run of the mill. Not saying average Jedi/Sith can't be taken down, saying you're not going to kill the ones the like of Anakin (and thusly the PC) by a clone trooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setta Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 So your favorite two Jedi are ones that were never killed by normals because they were the awesome force users and not run of the mill Gotta admit I love this desperate attempt of grasping at straws here. I like Obi and Yoda, because unlike other Jedi these two are in my opinion what a Jedi should be. Regardless of how strong or weak they were compared to the rest of the people in the SW universe, or how they ended up dying. That in itself actually has 0 to do with why I like them, and why your arguments are always going to be flawed based on power levels alone. To me they didn't abuse their powers or their position to do as they please, unlike a number of other Jedi before them. They didn't fall to the dark side like dozens of other Jedi before them either. They were in my opinion the truest representation of what a Jedi is, showing restraint and wisdom on a consistent basis. Granted they weren't perfect and even they screwed up here and there, but compared to how much back story they have vs other Jedi, and how in almost every scenario they did the right thing unlike other Jedi I respect them, and thus why I like them. For at the very least that makes them better people than I am, because if I had those powers I would not be able to have the self restraint, morality and wisdom that these two have shown on a day to day basis. Even if I tried to do the right thing, and be the hero, there would be some questionable choices as to how I'd go about things to achieve those goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I want the romance element more permissive for example I am the wrath the best killer in the galaxy a beast I can not be tied to just 1 women people like him and Darth Nox are people of power and influence you do not have only 1 women its a dirt the name of powerful and influential people by not having at least a mistress its a matter of prestige. That is what bugs me that you are forced to chose in true fashion for a man of your station your wife knows but does not do a thing so she will enjoy the privilege of such a position and your mistress well she will also enjoy the position as the second lady in the wrath's life. Real life example most kings that ever existed, Tiger Woods, Bill Clinton, people that say there secret agents to marry rich women and many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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