Grazzt Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Well, I gotta be honest here, I played another chapter and ... oh my God the gameplay is so stupid Watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, this just goes on forever !! As a matter of fact, I was so bored that I just "exit area" right in the middle of my next chapter without even finishing it and I don't think I'll even go back to playing KOTFE anymore... I have absolutely zero interest in seeing where the story goes as it has nothing to do with the Star Wars universe, and if I have to AoE another bunch of Skytroopers I think I'll just kill myself Alright, I'm gonna go watch the last episode of Star Wars Rebels, now that's something interesting Edited December 3, 2015 by Grazzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslanderRebel Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well, I gotta be honest here, I played another chapter and ... oh my God the gameplay is so stupid Watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, this just goes on forever !! As a matter of fact, I was so bored that I just "exit area" right in the middle of my next chapter without even finishing it and I don't think I'll even go back to playing KOTFE anymore... I have absolutely zero interest in seeing where the story goes as it has nothing to do with the Star Wars universe, and if I have to AoE another bunch of Skytroopers I think I'll just kill myself Alright, I'm gonna go watch the last episode of Star Wars Rebels, now that's something interesting ok op here it is. Chapters 1 thru 3 and 9. Thank god. Chapters 4 thru 8. Someone put me out of my misery please. FTW: tell Koth to have a "meaningful death" when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitusOfTides Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Chapter 9 is the best! You don't AOE anything, in fact you don't even fight anything! All you do is meet your alliance, then go to the cantina to flirt or not flirt! If you flirt, you even get to choose who to flirt with! OMG THE CHOICEZ. This should just be the whole game. No more pesky combat or movement! Just click words and allude to having relations with the same fictional characters as everyone else has too! Edited December 3, 2015 by TitusOfTides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linyivee Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Well, I gotta be honest here, I played another chapter and ... oh my God the gameplay is so stupid Watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, watch a cinematic, take a useless decision, AoE Skytroopers, this just goes on forever !! "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" and "Dragon Age: Origins" were the last true BioWare created role-playing games. After "Dragon Age: Origins" had ran its course, BioWare moved away from traditional role-playing games. "Dragon Age II", "MassEffect", and "Star Wars: The Old Republic" are dialogue driven cinematic movies, which give you the illusion of freedom and choice. BioWare loops all of your dialogue options to the same end-result. Traditional single-player role-playing games contained: (1) player character customization, (2) npc-companion customization, (4) skill trees (lock picking, stealth, health, etc...), etc... "Star Wars: The Old republic" doesn't allow players to earn and add points to basic skills. BioWare does know how to make neat story revelations; however, they have major writing issues with: (1) lead ups, (2) story tempo, (3) character development, and (4) romance options for heterosexuals. BioWare started to add romance options in "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic". Once they got to "Dragon Age: Origins", the game showed that BioWare was having fun. As a result of hitting it big, BioWare started to add too much drama. "Dragon Age II" and "MassEffect II" were the starting point of BioWare's push to dumb down rpgs. Chapter 9 is the best! You don't AOE anything, in fact you don't even fight anything! All you do is meet your alliance, then go to the cantina to flirt or not flirt! If you flirt, you even get to choose who to flirt with! OMG THE CHOICEZ. This should just be the whole game. No more pesky combat or movement! Just click words and allude to having relations with the same fictional characters as everyone else has too! "Knights of the Fallen Empire's" biggest mistake is that the NPCs drive the story. Players no longer control the overall outcome of the story. Your player character is just a pawn. Even though you have the ability to voice an opinion, the NPCs end up overriding your decisions. When Koth or Senya (sp?) betray your trust, especially on the Sith side, the player does not have the ability to kill or exile those npcs. Koth, as far as I am concerned, has a game stopping personality, which interferes with my ability to enjoy the overall story. Edited December 3, 2015 by Linyivee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitusOfTides Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Koth, as far as I am concerned, has a game stopping personality, which interferes with my ability to enjoy the overall game. Yeah, especially when he's trying to take ownership of my ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linyivee Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah, especially when he's trying to take ownership of my ship. I agree. When Koth's crew called him captain, I felt that my importance and authority was diminished. As I move through the story for the third time, I am: slamming the spacebar, choosing anti-Koth options, trying to progress the romances, and racing to the end. Edited December 3, 2015 by Linyivee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) NPCs drive the story. Players no longer control the overall outcome of the story. Your player character is just a pawn. Is that because it is more of a centralised approach though, as in no longer class exclusive story? I must admit that some of the choices leave the player without any control whatsoever (although it can be argued this also happens in the Agent storyline). Previous choices do make a difference in this though. I think this is where it comes down to "Choices matter". You make the choice earlier on in the storyline, you get to see how that decision plays out later on in the storyline. The only downside to this style of writing and interaction between the player and NPC, is that the player has no remedy if they do not like the outcome, leading to a disconnect between the player and the story itself. Compared to simply being able to press escape in the class story, and choose a different option. KotFE is a fundamentally different style of playing SWTOR, it's completely disconnected from how we've all levelled our characters up to this point. I know a lot of players have been saying "choices matter" disparagingly, however if you look at KotFE so far, those choices do matter, just perhaps not when you're expecting them too. Edited December 3, 2015 by Transcendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linyivee Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Is that because it is more of a centralised approach though, as in no longer class exclusive story? I must admit that some of the choices leave the player without any control whatsoever (although it can be argued this also happens in the Agent storyline). Previous choices do make a difference in this though. I think this is where it comes down to "Choices matter". You make the choice earlier on in the storyline, you get to see how that decision plays out later on in the storyline. The only downside to this style of writing and interaction between the player and NPC, is that the player has no remedy if they do not like the outcome, leading to a disconnect between the player and the story itself. You may be right. As you play as the Warden, within the game "Dragon Age: Origins", the character you represent means something. Koth's presence takes away the moral compass, which the player character used to control. Koth also takes away the central role, which gives the player a feeling of importance. Since the player character cannot control the board, the incentive to continue playing has diminished. Players don't have control over which companion to utilize. Players don't have control over who to banish, recruit, or kill. Player don't have control over how to deal with betrayal. Players don't have a choice in destination. Players don't have a choice over which ship to keep. Players don't have 'noticeable' secondary options. "Dragon Age II" failed for similar reasons. I feel as though "Knights of the Fallen Empire" is fighting my choices. I think the expansion has become a game stopper. I am currently trying to race through dialogue, for I know that my player character has no control. I am finding my third play-through to be annoying. Compared to simply being able to press escape in the class story, and choose a different option. KotFE is a fundamentally different style of playing SWTOR, it's completely disconnected from how we've all leveled our characters up to this point. "Knights of the Fallen Empire" feels more like a cinematic movie, which the player gets to choose a series of irrelevant dialogue options. Outside of trying to progress the romance options, I see no other reason to sign up for chapter nine. I am finding that the story is fighting me, and it has become a major turn-off. Edited December 4, 2015 by Linyivee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I feel as though "Knights of the Fallen Empire" is fighting my choices. With the way that the choices have been set to influence the outcome later on in the story, instead of instantly as they were in the 1-50 story (in the main), I'm finding that the outcome of those choices is in direct opposition to my "head cannon" for one of my characters. Now bear in mind I've got 110 days playtime on this one character alone, she's saved the galaxy countless times, gone from full dark side to full light side (without using diplomacy). mind tricks. She is my player character, with my own head cannon, so having a writer take control of her is treading a very fine line that I personally have found has already been crossed. In a book the writer creates the characters and brings them to life with how they write, ultimately what they choose to do with those characters is entirely their choice. In a game, the player themselves spends time developing their own characters (within a defined range of choices, and some not defined by the story itself), so ultimately we should be the ones deciding the path of our character within that story. Some of the decisions with the story (Valkorian linked choices specifically) have seen my character doing things she wouldn't have done, or quite simply wouldn't have happened. So story wise, although the writer has succeeded in gaining an emotive reaction from me as a player, they've done it in completely the wrong way so far. So I do agree with you in some respects about KotFE fighting choices. I don't think that's a good thing, and it's made me refrain from wanting to run through KotFE on other characters. Edited December 4, 2015 by Transcendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarkashae Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 But maybe something good could come out of this : if SWTOR is going the single-player way, and with Disney now owning LucasArts, maybe we'll have a real MMORPG based on the Star Wars universe someday in the future ? I hope so. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xo-Lara Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 To answer and issue from the original post: You really should be able to take a friend with you through KOTFE. I haven't done it, but I'm sure there shouldn't be a problem. However, if you never change your options in the social preference to allow you to do the same class phase you may have trouble. I'm sure that all classes are in the same phase for the expansion story. In the past, you were only blocked if it was the same class. Now, you will get blocked all around now if you forgot about the preferences toggle. However, I am really enjoying the new style of play that the chapters bring and would only suggest a few tweaks. For me the continuity is holding out pretty good, but I am used to playing with a larger amount of gameplay and story disconnect as my characters are RP characters and they may have nothing to do with the class stories in character. I'm basically just enjoying the story on it's own. I would suggest waiting to see the ground shaking choice results though. If the player were to make galaxy rending decisions every chapter, we'd not only get a pretty flimsy story, but it would be all over the place. It would be hard on the writers to keep it from looking every bit as contrived as it would have to be, and it would not likely result in satisfying choices for players as the overall story would be of poor quality. However, if you don't believe me, try writing out a chapter as a personal challenge and try to anticipate how players might want to react, how the companions will react, and still keep it on a halfway sane larger storyline. You'll find that it's pretty hard and hard to do in a month especially. Don't forget to factor in time for revising. That's all without considering the actual storytelling quality. Writing may seem easy but it's actually quite hard. On a side note... I like Koth. I feel like I'm in the minority here, but, then again, he likes my sage too. That may be part of the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzt Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 So I do agree with you in some respects about KotFE fighting choices. I don't think that's a good thing, and it's made me refrain from wanting to run through KotFE on other characters. Actually, I find myself in a position where I don't even wanna finish it with my first character, and seeing all of the above posts conforts me in the fact that I really don't care about this expansion anymore The only thing is, none of my Companions are available anymore now, and I cannot call them even when I'm not playing KOTFE, is there a way to get my Companions back without having to endure KOTFE to the end ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayla_Sana Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Actually, I find myself in a position where I don't even wanna finish it with my first character, and seeing all of the above posts conforts me in the fact that I really don't care about this expansion anymore The only thing is, none of my Companions are available anymore now, and I cannot call them even when I'm not playing KOTFE, is there a way to get my Companions back without having to endure KOTFE to the end ? In reality, there are only 8 chapters of content. The ninth introduces you to the daily area at Odessen. Once you are there, and you talk to some people, you can use the terminal and get your old companions back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzt Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 In reality, there are only 8 chapters of content. The ninth introduces you to the daily area at Odessen. Once you are there, and you talk to some people, you can use the terminal and get your old companions back. Damn, you mean that I have to suffer through this whole KOTFE thing to get my Companions back ? Well, I'll be sure not to do it with any other character then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 so please sit down and enjoy your "AOE 3 skytroopers and proceed to next cutscene" experience.haha i nailed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzt Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 He he you sure did, I can't believe how stupid this gameplay is But it seems I will have to suffer through it just to get my Companions back, whoever had this stupid idea should be forced to play this stupid expansion for the rest of his life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 do you really need your companions back? they are all the same now and if they are involved with the story you'll get them back anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzt Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Well, for this character, I really want Khem Val back, I don't really care about the others as I have some of them on other characters, but Khem Val is supposed to be the bodyguard of my Sorcerer Or maybe I could just summon Nico Okar that I got from the subscriber reward, will this work or will he also be missing in action while I was supposed to be in carbonite ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretfur Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 So, I'm at Chapter III of Knights of the Fallen Empire, and although the story, cinematics, camera moving and everything are really awesome, so far this has absolutely nothing to do with a MMORPG I feel like playing a really nice single player game, or even a console game (we even have the "saved progress" feature ), but that's not really what I'm looking for when playing a MMORPG ... I mean, SWTOR wasn't much of a MMORPG to begin with, but are they taking this to the next level ? Most chapters are like this and it is a great story and has some really good game play...and yes it is much like playing a single player game until you start the Star Fortress runs, but hey, its a great ride and a lot of fun. Enjoy it for what it is...SWTOR has never been that MMORPG-ish anyway, part of its charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) the allies you have are entirely not meaningful given that they are all identical now. as for koth running out on you, i doubt it will change the story. at all. its the difference between him storming out of the room or just leaving casually. oooooooooooooooooh it's such a big difference! You will never - I repeat never - find the kind of change that would satisfy you in this type of game or story. It's the difference between micro consequence and macro consequence. BioWare write micro consequence stories and choices, not macro ones. If that's what you're looking for, you're going to be eternally disappointed - Although you seem like the sort of person who's disappointed with everything anyway. Edited December 4, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 SWTOR has never been that MMORPG-ish anyway, part of its charm. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Oh, and to answer the OP's question: Yes, they are, and they're glorious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzt Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Yes, they are, and they're glorious Well it seems you didn't read most of the posts here, including mine, as your sentence is completely antithetical If all chapters are like that, then there's nothing glorious about it, it's a complete disaster and that may make me cancel my sub for the first time ever since the game was launched... I'm not one to act on impulse though, so I'm gonna wait until I finish all 9 Chapters (and get my Companions back ) before I decide anything, besides there are still a lot of cool features I love about this game, and I still have a few storylines to finish, but let's just say that if it is the direction SWTOR is taking, then it's definitively not the game for me. It's no big deal and I'm pretty sure Bioware will be able to survive without my monthly sub, but I'm not gonna force myself to spend my time doing something I don't enjoy Edited December 4, 2015 by Grazzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzt Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) So, after some thought and consideration, and playing through the KOTFE exepnsion, I've decided that SWTOR is no longer a game for me For the first time ever since launch in 2011, I've uninstalled the game from my computer ... I still have 5 more days to my subscription though, so I can still discuss with you all for a short while, but I guess that's 'bye bye' for now I'll probably check back in a few months to see what has been going on, but I'm afraid that the 100% single-player route it has taken is not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. Edited December 12, 2015 by Grazzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkaBear Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 So, after some thought and consideration, and playing through the KOTFE exepnsion, I've decided that SWTOR is no longer a game for me For the first time ever since launch in 2011, I've uninstalled the game from my computer ... I still have 5 more days to my subscription though, so I can still discuss with you all for a short while, but I guess that's 'bye bye' for now I'll probably check back in a few months to see what has been going on, but I'm afraid that the 100% single-player route it has taken is not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG. You forget that QYZEN makes you go kill world bosses, and MX makes you do PVP. Not purely singleplayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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