Is Leap Back Ability an act of Suicide?

[ForceWelder]

We all went into this believing that the leap back was just a bad defense. A skill that had you move in a direction that you could not be sure of without wasting critical seconds ensuring you could move appropriately by changing camera angles.

 

And sure enough, I think this skill is going to lead to more Trooper death's than not. I mean seriously, how many fights in this game are done on ledges and high rise platforms? The answer is too many. Just this morning I was in a boss fight, needed to get some distance and used the skill. And if it wasn't for me bumping into an object I would have likely fallen to my death.

 

An object that both saved me and kept me from gaining any reasonable distance from the boss I was fighting thus defeating the purpose either way of using this very skill in the first place.

 

So I am curious. Are their any troopers / mercs out there who did commit suicide using this very lame and badly designed skill?

Edited November 20, 2015 by ForceWelder

[benficakungfu]

Ive sen many knights leap to their death!!

 

As mando i think u have to blame yourself there.

[ForceWelder]

Ive sen many knights leap to their death!!

 

As mando i think u have to blame yourself there.

 

How so?

 

As a knight or warrior you can see where you are leaping too.

 

As a merc / mando you cannot without adjusting your camera angle.

[Gyronamics]

It is exceptionally bad for casual mobility.

 

You will be thrown in the direction the back of your character is facing. This means you need to turn your character to face away from the direction you want to go in. Ideally you also back or forward move a little to be sure the direction is set. Then you can backleap.

 

Compare that to the slinger roll which is similar but you rotate your camera and you then roll in the direction of the camera.

 

So because you are hugely gimped in aiming this leap it cannot be used quickly at the same time as being accurate.

 

Everyone else who uses a camera aimed dash/roll can be both quick and accurate very easily.

 

On the other hand it has a niche use as a planned escape. You set up beforehand knowing that **** is going to happen and there's a safe zone which is big and low risk behind you. This does require a large amount of faith that the safe zone remains safe because you will blind leap into it.

 

Bottom line is it's clunky as hell and to cap it off it doesn't even have a good defensive on it without wasting a heroic.

[Fellow-Canadian]

It takes some skill to use as well as good positioning. Using this ability to it's potential is what separates good commando players from bad ones.

[CaptQuazar]

It takes some skill to use as well as good positioning. Using this ability to it's potential is what separates good commando players from bad ones.

 

Mercs/Mandos already have the deck stacked against them with DCDs without having to worry about finessing a skill that isn't all that great to begin with. It should be renamed Rocket Boots and designed to launch you forward, and Smoke Screen should be built in.

[Aetideus]

It takes some skill to use as well as good positioning. Using this ability to it's potential is what separates good commando players from bad ones.

 

Particularly useful against Concealment. Timing you roots and stun after the Roll end +1.5s for the evasion, gives 2 gaps - knock back and Rocket out to stay safe.

With Dec assin is more tricky, since there are a 10m stun, 30m mezze and Teleport every 30s. But Conc has to stay in 4m where punch is applicable.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Aetideus

[Theodulus]

On the other hand it has a niche use as a planned escape. You set up beforehand knowing that **** is going to happen and there's a safe zone which is big and low risk behind you. This does require a large amount of faith that the safe zone remains safe because you will blind leap into it.

 

Bottom line is it's clunky as hell and to cap it off it doesn't even have a good defensive on it without wasting a heroic.

Then your character turns by itself to stay on target with the channel you are doing and you jump backwards in an undefined manner. The ability is a joke and a mockery to everyone playing this class. Even if it was on a 10 second cooldown I doubt it would change anything at all.

[Fellow-Canadian]

Mercs/Mandos already have the deck stacked against them with DCDs without having to worry about finessing a skill that isn't all that great to begin with. It should be renamed Rocket Boots and designed to launch you forward, and Smoke Screen should be built in.

 

It could definitely use some tweaking, and I agree smokescreen should really be built in. Even if you fixed it though, a fight between a commando and a vanguard isn't going to be pretty. Life for commandos looks like it's going to be tough for a long time. At least the damage is there to kill someone, the only problem is just surviving melee's stupid burst and mobility combo introduced with 4.0.

[Gyronamics]

Then your character turns by itself to stay on target with the channel you are doing and you jump backwards in an undefined manner. The ability is a joke and a mockery to everyone playing this class. Even if it was on a 10 second cooldown I doubt it would change anything at all.

 

Let me clarify for you, I am not speculating.

 

I know, and you know what you have to do to make sure you go in the right direction so you obviously don't set yourself up so that firing will cause you to go in the wrong direction.

 

I raid every week 16m and/or 8m HM/NiM content and I do try and use abilities to get whatever benefit I can.

 

This week we have S&V buffed and there's all kinds of niche stuff you can do despite it being a low quality of life leap.

 

1st boss: extra distance maker with a turn/leap/turn to help get away from the rats

 

2nd boss: extra time on the robot before getting out of there to run to a rock during launch

 

3rd boss: when marked by a bomber you use it as a quick leap backwards towards the walls so you can have a bit more time on the boss and still not risk dropping a circle in middle.

 

Can't recall if it has any use in the rest because we've not even bothered finishing the op yet, about 10 hours this week just farming implants.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Theodulus]

Let me clarify for you, I am not speculating.

 

I know, and you know what you have to do to make sure you go in the right direction so you obviously don't set yourself up so that firing will cause you to go in the wrong direction.

 

I raid every week 16m and/or 8m HM/NiM content and I do try and use abilities to get whatever benefit I can.

 

This week we have S&V buffed and there's all kinds of niche stuff you can do despite it being a low quality of life leap.

 

1st boss: extra distance maker with a turn/leap/turn to help get away from the rats

 

2nd boss: extra time on the robot before getting out of there to run to a rock during launch

 

3rd boss: when marked by a bomber you use it as a quick leap backwards towards the walls so you can have a bit more time on the boss and still not risk dropping a circle in middle.

 

Can't recall if it has any use in the rest because we've not even bothered finishing the op yet, about 10 hours this week just farming implants.

Well I don't pve so I don't really care how well or bad it performs in pve. The ability is useless for pvp because you can't use it when you need to. You also need to spend an utility point for it to even be remotely useful. A point I'm quite certain many pvpers never will spend considering there are so many other necessary utilities that are required.

[Jherad]

Apart from the multitude of obvious problems with this ability in my usual gameplay mode (PvP), it's also annoying because it appears to launch you in the direction the SERVER thinks you are facing, not where your client does.

 

Much of the time these two directions are congruous. But if you hit a small pocket of lag or latency, you'll find yourself bouncing somewhere completely unexpected. This seems to be less of a factor for forward pointing abilities like the Jugg version, as they don't require a sudden shift in facing to go where you need to be.

[Gyronamics]

Well I don't pve so I don't really care how well or bad it performs in pve. The ability is useless for pvp because you can't use it when you need to. You also need to spend an utility point for it to even be remotely useful. A point I'm quite certain many pvpers never will spend considering there are so many other necessary utilities that are required.

 

Yeah I do get it, but knock it off QQ'ing to me when I've said ever since the words backwards leap were leaked by testers that it would be bad.

 

And no, you don't get to pretend I'm saying nothing just because you don't PVE. I also PVP, my example was to demonstrate what it can be used for and the same applies. A safe zone behind you which doesn't need high precision to jump into so when the highly expected aggro turns up you're already set. With some practice it can be used to move faster across open ground too.

 

If you find that firing is causing you leap aiming issues then hit your S key before the leap to make sure the reverse direction is set.

 

Let me say it again, I'm not and have not ever been happy with how it was implemented but I'm also not going round screaming that it can't be used for anything.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Theodulus]

Yeah I do get it, but knock it off QQ'ing to me when I've said ever since the words backwards leap were leaked by testers that it would be bad.

 

And no, you don't get to pretend I'm saying nothing just because you don't PVE. I also PVP, my example was to demonstrate what it can be used for and the same applies. A safe zone behind you which doesn't need high precision to jump into so when the highly expected aggro turns up you're already set. With some practice it can be used to move faster across open ground too.

 

If you find that firing is causing you leap aiming issues then hit your S key before the leap to make sure the reverse direction is set.

 

Let me say it again, I'm not and have not ever been happy with how it was implemented but I'm also not going round screaming that it can't be used for anything.

You found some extremely situational uses for it. Good for you. Meanwhile other classes actually got useful abilities where you don't have to define "safe zones" and take precautions to be useful. I get that you have a positive outlook on the class. I'm quite fed up with the ******** though and I'm not going to pretend everything is fine.

[Nihilatelife]

Merc/Mandos have been asking for this ability for years. And now you have it you're still not happy. What did you expect you would get from a disengage ability? Perhaps you/they should have been more specific about how the ability should work?

[Lalainnia]

Great in pve becasue we never have to deal with the issue of being rooted and mmost of the time its short bursts of movement like red circles and such. Pretty bad in pvp because when we do need it most likely rooted.. For me personally as a healer this is all the time would also be nice if it gave a speed boost of 50% for 3 seconds after using it. I'm also personally finding the cc immunity to be useless in pvp as no ones even bothered to try ccing me after jetting away with the exclusion of the rare deception lolslash.

[Theodulus]

Merc/Mandos have been asking for this ability for years. And now you have it you're still not happy. What did you expect you would get from a disengage ability? Perhaps you/they should have been more specific about how the ability should work?

I guess you are new here in these parts. That topic has been discussed to death and there have been several good suggestions. But looking at Bioware's track record wiht this class where they didn't for example bother fixing a broken set bonus for 9 months, fixing a bugged ability making people playing the healer spec unable to play it for almost 2 weeks after 4.0 launch etc. Bioware simply doesn't care about this class and how it performs in pvp.

 

I'm quite certain every commando/merc out there that read the leaked 4.0 changes could tell at an immediate glance that we kind of got what we asked for but it would be rendered ineffective by what every other class brought to the table. Nerfing overall mobility for mercs didn't rally help either.

[Nihilatelife]

I guess you are new here in these parts. That topic has been discussed to death and there have been several good suggestions. But looking at Bioware's track record wiht this class where they didn't for example bother fixing a broken set bonus for 9 months, fixing a bugged ability making people playing the healer spec unable to play it for almost 2 weeks after 4.0 launch etc. Bioware simply doesn't care about this class and how it performs in pvp.

 

I'm quite certain every commando/merc out there that read the leaked 4.0 changes could tell at an immediate glance that we kind of got what we asked for but it would be rendered ineffective by what every other class brought to the table. Nerfing overall mobility for mercs didn't rally help either.

 

None of that changes anything. Again, what did you expect to get out of a disengage ability? During the years people were asking for a disengage, did anyone ever think "hang on, there might be a problem with using your jetpack to fly backwards out of a fight"? Where was the foresight needed to see any problems that might arise from a backward leap? Did you really think that a disengage would work as an anti-focus tool in PvP with no downsides at all? And this isn't even taking into account the new gap closers that the other classes got. The OP is worried he might actually kill himself using his disengage! Did anyone bring up that possibility while you were all nodding and agreeing with each other?

 

Rocket Out is EXACTLY what you asked for and you got it. And surprise surprise, you're still not happy.

[Gyronamics]

None of that changes anything. Again, what did you expect to get out of a disengage ability? During the years people were asking for a disengage, did anyone ever think "hang on, there might be a problem with using your jetpack to fly backwards out of a fight"? Where was the foresight needed to see any problems that might arise from a backward leap? Did you really think that a disengage would work as an anti-focus tool in PvP with no downsides at all? And this isn't even taking into account the new gap closers that the other classes got. The OP is worried he might actually kill himself using his disengage! Did anyone bring up that possibility while you were all nodding and agreeing with each other?

 

Rocket Out is EXACTLY what you asked for and you got it. And surprise surprise, you're still not happy.

 

What is this manure?

 

Who are the "all" you refer to?

 

And where did anyone ask for a backward leap aimed by the physical orientation of the player model. Any other blind roll or dash in the game besides this is aimed by either having a physically oriented forward dash or a camera aimed roll. This manages to be the worst combo of physically oriented reverse dash to guarantee clumsiness in use.

 

The quality of life in the use of the mechanic is poor. It could have been camera aimed and still be able to send the character backwards in that direction by rotating them on ability activation.

 

And that is just the basic use not including issues of the heroic point tax or the counter use of all the new gapclosers which were pushed out at the same time. Hell, I also have an issue that it consumes a GCD and its total passive bonus is CC immunity for 1s but that's small beans compared to the fundamental problems.

 

Or are you taking the frequent "disengage" request and running with it as a blanket to excuse any disengage introduced thereafter no matter what might be considered wrong with them.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Nihilatelife]

And where did anyone ask for a backward leap aimed by the physical orientation of the player model. Any other blind roll or dash in the game besides this is aimed by either having a physically oriented forward dash or a camera aimed roll. This manages to be the worst combo of physically oriented reverse dash to guarantee clumsiness in use.

 

Did anyone specify for the ability to NOT work like this? No you didn't. All you asked for was a jetpack escape ability. And that's exactly what you got.

 

The quality of life in the use of the mechanic is poor. It could have been camera aimed and still be able to send the character backwards in that direction by rotating them on ability activation.

 

Quality of life issues are not priorities. If you wanted the ability to be designed that way then you should have specified it be made that way.

[Theodulus]

Did anyone specify for the ability to NOT work like this? No you didn't. All you asked for was a jetpack escape ability. And that's exactly what you got.

 

Quality of life issues are not priorities. If you wanted the ability to be designed that way then you should have specified it be made that way.

Since when was it the customers responsibility to actually balance the game? People filed thousand bug reports reporting set bonus etc not working but it took 9 months to fix it. What makes you think that they would actually listen and try to understand what we have asked for. Several people like Gyronamics have expanded on possible viable DCDs from the actual state of the game in 3.0 and earlier. What else can we do unless we get a time machine?

 

But sure I can do pre-emptive "Hey Bioware, can you please stop being stupid, play the *********** game, actually do some pvp and make the merc/commando viable for all sorts of pvp like giving it a DCD that isn't garbage. Oh and please make it FOTY while you are at it.". Is that good enough for you or do I need to invent a time machine to see how Bioware's balancing will affect the game? I guess a public beta 2 months before expansion release could have helped too but Bioware in their infinite wisdom thought it wasn't needed. After all only stupid people play Commando healers etc.

[Gyronamics]

Did anyone specify for the ability to NOT work like this? No you didn't. All you asked for was a jetpack escape ability. And that's exactly what you got.

 

Quality of life issues are not priorities. If you wanted the ability to be designed that way then you should have specified it be made that way.

 

Boy are you full of garbage.

 

A vast amount of specific and non-specific talk has gone on in these forums about dam near every conceivable failing of the class. With zero dev involvement.

 

The development team doesn't talk to players and it is incredibly rare that they suggest they would like to hear (not discuss) what people think about something.

 

At best they might look through threads without saying anything. Players have NO say other than ************ at each other and hoping someone reads it and then takes away the right idea.

 

Clearly you know nothing of how things work so go back to the rock you were under where you believe some kind of player/dev interaction really happens.

 

The developers had full control of how they implemented it and the players had nil. Understand that.

[Nihilatelife]

What makes you think that they would actually listen and try to understand what we have asked for.

 

Bioware did listen and did understand what you were asking for. You were asking for a jetpack escape ability. And that's exactly what you got.

 

If you wanted a jetpack escape ability that gave you baseline immunity to leaps, was off the GCD, made you immune to CC for the duration, had it's trajectory based on something other than the physical direction the player model was facing, and whatever else you want, then you should've asked for that instead of "a jetpack escape ability". Bioware isn't going to understand specifics that aren't given to them.

 

Now surely these problems would have been brought up somewhere during the years the Merc/Mando community were asking for it if they had the foresight to see them. But no, they weren't, and you expect Bioware to just magically pull solutions to these problems out of their hinds. This is your ability Merc/Mando community, not Bioware's. You asked for it, and yes you do have the responsibility of making sure it works properly.

 

But all you gave them was "jetpack escape ability". And again, that's exactly what you got.

[Theodulus]

Bioware did listen and did understand what you were asking for. You were asking for a jetpack escape ability. And that's exactly what you got.

 

If you wanted a jetpack escape ability that gave you baseline immunity to leaps, was off the GCD, made you immune to CC for the duration, had it's trajectory based on something other than the physical direction the player model was facing, and whatever else you want, then you should've asked for that instead of "a jetpack escape ability". Bioware isn't going to understand specifics that aren't given to them.

 

Now surely these problems would have been brought up somewhere during the years the Merc/Mando community were asking for it if they had the foresight to see them. But no, they weren't, and you expect Bioware to just magically pull solutions to these problems out of their hinds. This is your ability Merc/Mando community, not Bioware's. You asked for it, and yes you do have the responsibility of making sure it works properly.

 

But all you gave them was "jetpack escape ability". And again, that's exactly what you got.

 

Can you tell me on the doll where the electronet touched and violated you? The only thing the merc/commando community asked for was a DCD similar to other classes DCD that forces opponents to swap targets. A DCD allowing a merc/commando survive the initial burst. Some people that played wow figured a leaping backwards ability could help in the mobility department and suggested such. Others suggested baselining several utilities to the class like the PT and making kolto overload actually useful on its own. Several suggestions that would force opponents to attack another player or waste their initial burst.

 

I don't think in our wildest dream that was coming for mercs in 4.0 was a nerf to overall mobility. And certainly I don't think anyone said "give us a 20 meter backward jump, make it figure out direction from where the model faces, add another "must have" masterful utility to make it somewhat not useless, don't solve the issues the class have to survive burst and nerf HO while you are at it because mercs are obviously overperforming in pvp".

[Nihilatelife]

Boy are you full of garbage.

 

A vast amount of specific and non-specific talk has gone on in these forums about dam near every conceivable failing of the class. With zero dev involvement.

 

The development team doesn't talk to players and it is incredibly rare that they suggest they would like to hear (not discuss) what people think about something.

 

At best they might look through threads without saying anything. Players have NO say other than ************ at each other and hoping someone reads it and then takes away the right idea.

 

Clearly you know nothing of how things work so go back to the rock you were under where you believe some kind of player/dev interaction really happens.

 

The developers had full control of how they implemented it and the players had nil. Understand that.

 

1. It's not the developers job to read forum posts or to communicate with the players. Getting any direct feedback from them is a luxury, not a requirement. You better learn this and fast.

2. If they weren't listening you wouldn't even have Rocket Out.