Companion Change Feedback

[dlcman]

Hey there

 

I do not often post into forum, as I'm usually content with the way solo gameplay is scheduled. This time however I need to comment:

 

I main a burst scoundrel atm (great burst, medium single target dps, zero aoe), and since some players in my guild were complaining about the difficulty of heroic SF after tuesday's patch I decided to give it a try.

 

Having cleared RAV and ToS HM 8/10 (with above-mentioned scoundrel) I consider myself to be fairly acquainted with my class and mechanics in general.

 

To my surprise, clearing SF heroic solo with above-mentioned dps was no faceroll, but instead included CC'ing golden adds, keeping HoTs on me ALL the time, and pulling def cds in a strategic manner. While this can easily be expected from a raid experienced player, it is highly unlikely, that a " casual" (and I in no way see this as perogative) player can be expected to accomplish this without a lot of practise.

 

Therefore I have to renew my old opinion about the constant complaining in this forum (being something like: "Start learning your class, learn about def cds and so forth) into a: " if you want to accomplish chievos like "one for all" you will need to confront SF Heroic strategically and with a minimum of 208/216 TOKEN gear", provided you don't run DF Nim half asleep.

 

Thus the following goal has most certainly not been achieved:

 

 

 

For those players logging into the game for a relaxing after-work evening, the above statement is most certainly not true. Is it feasible?

It is, but without pulling a lot of CDs in the right time ( thus countermanding the "casual" player): I don't think so.

 

Finally a word on doing this as healer or tank:

 

Much much easier, since as tank you can mitigate the damage on your comp, and as healer you have scarce probs healing a tank comp and yourself, tha main issue is, when you dps and can't thraten all enemies, which will result in your comp dying Quite Quickly from add damage he can't heal (anymore).

 

Still: Generally comps were way OP at 4.0 but this extreme nerf is too far the other direction even for someone who still manages heroic mode alone, suggesting it's nearly impossible for someone who doesn't have the leisure to dig into a min-maxed rotation plus CCs plus selfheal plusplusplus

 

best Fina

 

After reading this post I am glad to say I feel like superman. If a progression raider thinks this heroic needs token gear then I am one hell of a player. It most certainly does not need token gear. I am also curious why casual means incapable of learning a class. I am about as casual as it gets but I know what interrupts are and how to use them. I also know how all the skills of a class work.

 

I think that the nerf was over the top but seriously the content is not impossible. I main a dps. I can still solo h2 sf without buffs.

 

I found this whole post insulting.

 

I am glad the companions are getting buffed for whoever feels they need it but I think posts like this are spreading a little misinformation that makes people who are casual feel they can't do something without a crutch.

[Mauvros]

Please rollback 4.0.2

 

Playing during 4.0-4.0.1 with the new companions was the most fun I've ever had in the game. It felt like the game had finally struck a perfect balance between the group and casual/solo content. You could enjoy playing the story missions, leveling, and heroics without the drama of toxic players or tedious grinds.

 

The changes didn't prevent me from grouping in the slightest as I still found things like heroics faster and more fun with other players. But at the same time not being limited to have to play them at the whims of others was liberating. The companions as they were, left the harder challenges where they belong - in the flashpoints, WBs, events, Ops etc. I love all this other group content as well, I simply do not want all content to be that time consuming, stressful or or exhausting.

 

I so fell in love with game during 4-4.0.1 was planning on re-playing each of the classes missions of both factions at least once if not more. I was also planning out long-term plans for working on all achievements and others things I had never even considered before with grinds as they were. I had also purchased more Cartel Coins than I ever had before as well. All due to my excitement and direction the game had taken.

 

To me the pre-4.0.2 companions completely opened up the game and made it so much more fun and accessible.

Please revert the companions to pre-4.0.2 levels and let the separate sides of the game both co-exist. Fun solo, casual/coop, story content and harder challenging group content like flashpoints and Ops.

 

As of now I have unsubscribed and am letting 3 months of my gametime run out and not planning on returning unless 4.0.2 is rolled back.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Mauvros

[Yodri]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

 

Thank you!

 

Hopefully you will put your plans into action just as fast.

 

Keep in mind that overtuning a bit might compensate for idle AI bug for companions.

Once this issue is resolved a real fine tuning can take place.

 

Anyway just please put the FUN back in to the solo content for people who do not have raid/pvp gear.

 

Once again thank you for listening.

 

Regards,

Yodri

[Zanriel]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

This makes me so happy I'm literally getting a little watery eyed. Thank you! I hope it's something good.

[caronome]

The game in its current state is still very, very accessible. I'm struggling to think of what other games you might have played in the past that set such a low bar that caused you to think 4.0.2 made the game super hard.

 

There is a recent guide on WoWhead about leveling an alt from 90-100 - the entirety of the WoD expansion - in under 2 hours. I believe this involves very little combat. I also assume you have never played a beastmaster hunter in full heirlooms, including the new trinket which does major dps for 15 out of every 120 seconds. I am not saying which is easiest or too easy, just that IMO easy is not unique in modern MMOs.

[Braggalo]

After reading this post I am glad to say I feel like superman. If a progression raider thinks this heroic needs token gear then I am one hell of a player. It most certainly does not need token gear. I am also curious why casual means incapable of learning a class. I am about as casual as it gets but I know what interrupts are and how to use them. I also know how all the skills of a class work.

 

I think that the nerf was over the top but seriously the content is not impossible. I main a dps. I can still solo h2 sf without buffs.

 

I found this whole post insulting.

 

I am glad the companions are getting buffed for whoever feels they need it but I think posts like this are spreading a little misinformation that makes people who are casual feel they can't do something without a crutch.

 

Phew,

 

If this has made you feel insulted then i misspelled what I was trying to say. I did IN NO WAY wanted to express that a "casual" player necessarily does not know what interrupts, CCs and so forth are. What I was trying to say (and obviously failed to do) was: The SF H2's are in no way to betreated lightly as faceroll.

 

I have, however, lead a lot of pug GF OPs where players did NOT know what interrupt CC, etc were, and I have always tried not to blame 'em for it int the manner of: "douchebag, go l2p" but instead explaining to them themechanics of classes and boss figths.

 

Over the time I have come to realise that a lot of people do not want to learn this, but instead focus on story, lore and flavor. I do not blame them for this in the above-mentioned arrogant way (and i know a lot of people who do) but instead accept that there are a many ways to play this game.

 

All I'm saying is: At the moment a nodding acQuaintaince of all class skills will make it hard to solo Heroic SF and that is not what EA told people what it would be like

[Draewind]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

I will come back and read the forum post on Monday, and if it is promising, I will try the game out in the afternoon on Tuesday. That should be long enough to implement your changes. If it feels good, I will keep my subscription and continue playing. Otherwise I pull the plug and never touch it again.

 

I will check it out Monday if I am not too involved in another game. I am enjoying Diablo at the moment. It is an odd game, but solo friendly ;-)

[Nauticaa]

I think its going to take a lot more then some simple buffs to fix the companion problem.

[Skywalkher]

Bottom line:

 

I invested a ton of time and in game credits to take my companions to 50 influence to only have them nerf. My companions at 50 influence should be god like. I have been in game since early beta and invested 100's of hours of time and in game credits to max out my legacy and be a elite as possible. 4.0 was the cherry on top when it came to being rewarded for time investment and being a founder. That was taken from me in 4.0.2.

 

Give me back my OP companions, that is the way I want to play. It doesn't affect other players if I want to roll with an OP companion. I have invested my time and money into this product and I demand satisfaction.

[Nauticaa]

Bottom line:

 

I invested a ton of time and in game credits to take my companions to 50 influence to only have them nerf. My companions at 50 influence should be god like. I have been in game since early beta and invested 100's of hours of time and in game credits to max out my legacy and be a elite as possible. 4.0 was the cherry on top when it came to being rewarded for time investment and being a founder. That was taken from me in 4.0.2.

 

Give me back my OP companions, that is the way I want to play. It doesn't affect other players if I want to roll with an OP companion. I have invested my time and money into this product and I demand satisfaction.

 

I agree. Influence should have a significant effect how well they perform in combat. The highest I have is 20 right now but I want to see a big difference once they reach 50.

[Shankking]

•Your level: 65

•Roughly Average Item Rating: 208 (offhand 216)

•Discipline: BH Mercenary

•Companion: Lana

•Companion role: Heal

•Companion Influence level: 16

•Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) Heroic

•Your personal experience while playing this content

 

I cleared all of Heroic Star Fortress up to the last boss. The challenge level up to that point was refreshing - not too easy like before. On the Exarch I could not get past the 3rd stage of that fight... wiped many many times and gave up. I know this class pretty well I think and I liked the challenge but had to quit I was not getting past that point. I have not tried the regular heroic 2's again. The repetition was boring me. I will try them again though.

[Zanriel]

Make rank 1 companions like they are now at 50... make rank 50 like they were at rank 20.

 

That would fix it. It would give people the option to make them as good or lousy as they want, and it will make grinding influence a LOT more rewarding!

Edited November 21, 2015 by Zanriel

[Jadescythe]

Well, if this comes down the way I would like to see it.....

 

Increase of base stats for companions by 5 to 10 percent and/or presence/influence effect boosted by 5 to 10 percent.

Increase of healing power by 10 to 25 percent.

Ability to toggle level sync.

Ability to toggle presence.

 

This would provide, IMO, the wide range of difficulty that most players seek....players could enjoy the early content on easy mode or find a challenge anywhere in the game, their choice.

 

You're going to see a 20-30% boost in companion effectiveness, not much else. For well geared, experienced veterans, the content is where they want it to be. Companions don't need to much of a boost to get everyone else there and they certainly don't want to trivialize level sync or make it optional. That was their method for making the heroics relevant.

[Obnxs]

I simply can't believe that the majority of max level players spent their time farming low-level heroics, perhaps world bosses, but not heroics.

 

You'd be wrong since they did it for decos.

[Psychopyro]

Well I know I'm a little late to the party, I broke a tooth last night and have been medicated so I did not get a chance to finish all my testing, however I did get a good bit of the heroics done with some feedback and videos... Sorry if the formatting sucks, but... If I get some finished, I'll update this post with them, still medicated though...

 

 

Below is a list of heroics with links to videos for every heroic quest. Quest feedback for each quest will be listed with a spoiler tag below each link in this post. The videos are raw, unedited gameplay footage.

 

Tython

• 
   
  There were no issues with this quest, nor did I expect there to be due to the fact that it was a starter planet quest
   
  

Coruscant

• 
   
  No issues with this quest
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with this quest
   
  
• 
   
  The biggest issue with this quest is lack of mobs that drop the item due to respawn being really slow and the loot item bug where you have to loot the item from the correct corpse
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with this quest
   
  

Taris

 

Tatooine

 

Nar Shaddaa

 

Alderaan

• 
   
  Issues with these quests. Data spikes take too long to respawn. Limited number of Joiners. Too few dens to collapse.
   
  
• 
   
  Respawn takes a long time for the crashed droid
   
  
• 
   
  Not enough mobs to complete the optional quest when it is being run by a few people.
   
  

Balmorra

• 
   
  Only 4 eggs in the kill the queen instance. When a lot of people are running it, there is not enough to finish optional. Some of the pulls have too many mobs to deal with carfully.
   
  
• 
   
  Mobs take too long to respawn, also the champion that is a sniper still acts as a Heroic 4 mob (high health, cc immune, high resist)
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with this quest
   
  
• 
   
  Only 3 mobs drop the required item. It is not a 100% drop. Loot bug also applies here as well. Respawns are slow
   
  
• 
   
  Optional quest not worth pushing death, as the droids pull the whole room.
   
  
• 
   
  Not enough mobs for either optional if there are multiple people doing the quest
   
  
• 
   
  Droids spawn too slowly when multiple people are doing the quest
   
  

Hoth

• 
   
  No issues with this quest
   
  
• 
   
  Drops are not 100%. Not enough mobs with the low drop rate
   
  
• 
   
  Can release prisoners while in stealth
   
  
• 
   
  Terminals have very slow respawn. Travel between the 2 locations for signal jam is tedious
   
  
• 
   
  First and Second challenge bosses still behave as Heroic 4 mobs (high health, high resist, CC immune)
   
  
• 
   
  Too few droids for each drop. Area is constantly farmed by gold farmers, as you can see in the video
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with quest
   
  
• 
   
  Drops are not 100% which makes getting items hard when multiple people are doing the quests due to slow respawn
   
  

Belsavis

• 
   
  No issues with quest
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with this quest. I did bypass mobs, but I could have easily cleared them, just did not want to bother
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with quest
   
  
• 
   
  The Tyrant still acts as a Heroic 4 mob (High Health, High Resist, CC Immune)
   
  
• 
   
  Captives can be freed in stealth
   
  

Voss

 

Corellia

• 
   
  Optional Quest not worth the time to clear to get to it
   
  
• 
   
  No issues with quest, could have cleared mobs if I wanted to
   
  
• 
   
  Mobs see stealth as if it were still a Heroic 4. Makes it impossible to use stealth tools to manage pulls
   
  
• 
   
  Mobs see stealth as if it were still a Heroic 4. Makes it impossible to use stealth tools to manage pulls
   
  

Ilum

• 
   
  Mobs have a wide agro radius. Optional is too long to bother with. Mobs are too densely packed, very easy to accidently pull to many when comp gets knocked into another group
   
  

Makeb

• 
   
  Some of the pulls are still too many. I avoided most of them because I know which ones they are
   
  
• 
   
  No real issues with this quest
   
  
• 
   
  Clicking all 4 items very hard to do. Died 2x doing it. DOT should probably be toned down, or clickables reduced. Timer in 2nd and 3rd room is very tight, may need to increase time to click. Mobs are also very thick. Also alarm droids can pull you into more mobs making pulls very hard
   
  
• 
   
  Mobs are a bit dense and come very fast during turrets. Mobs are overly dense through the whole instance.
   
  
• 
   
  The mobs spawn 4 silvers at a time. As soon as you kill 1, 2 more spawn. It comes way too fast and too many. It really needs to be toned down IMO to either 2 silvers at a time, or 1 silver and 3 normals
   
  

The Star Fortress

[LordArtemis]

BTW...I strongly believe that, had they launched 4.0 with companions in their current state folks would have been enraged about level sync.

 

The reason the rage died down quick, IMO, is because folks realized it wasnt that bad with powerful companions. They only realized the true effect of level sync in my eyes after 4.0.2.

 

All the latest patch did from my perspective is illuminate how serious level sync is as far a fundamental core game change.

[LordArtemis]

You're going to see a 20-30% boost in companion effectiveness, not much else.

 

Well, I posted what I felt needs to happen, and to be fair you are simply speculating....besides, my target is just south of somewhere between where we were and where we are.

 

For well geared, experienced veterans, the content is where they want it to be.

 

I couldn't disagree more. There are plenty of well geared experienced veterans that were unhappy with 4.0 and unhappy with 4.0.2. In fact, I would state that it is likely the vast majority of folks that were unhappy with both states are well geared veterans.

 

Companions don't need to much of a boost to get everyone else there and they certainly don't want to trivialize level sync or make it optional. That was their method for making the heroics relevant.

 

I think, again, you are speculating here. Though I agree they dont need much of a boost, I dont feel that a boost would trivialize content any more than it was trivialized prior to 4.0.

 

Heroics remain irrelevant, as does the entire early game. It is simply a vehicle to acquire companion gifts and some gear...and that is pretty much what it always has been for veteran players.

 

End game is where the relevancy sits IMO. The early game is for story, boosts and crafting, nothing more.

[Lyaise]

You'd be wrong since they did it for decos.

 

Of course that's ok, as long as they realize that they are farming content below these max'd characters.

But don't then forum bash this lower content as being too easy.

[Ghisallo]

Actually it is the group of raiders that is most dominant on game forums.

 

And it is their feedback which leads to changes as like the companion nerf.

 

.

 

On other Games.. maybe... not on SWTOR. Why, because real raiders laugh at SWTOR. Trust me years ago when I was a raider (and I mean close to a decade ago) I laughed at WoW because the raids were easy there compared to what I did.

 

This game is actually pretty much like real life. People sit and stay silent until they get pissed off or REALLY happy. The then come out of the wood work raging and only those in a complete sense of denial miss this fact. Example I saw A LOT more posts cheering the "focus on the story" stuff. Story people REALLY Happy in April/May. Then I saw a lot of people upset about companions at launch. Then I saw a lot more people after the nerf.

 

Emotion drives posting on these forums, not game preference or logic.

 

Unless of course you want to accuse ric and BW of lying when you look at the listings on the OP here. They clearly had a plan, that can actually be confirmed by the set up of the heroic SF if you care to look at the content logically. The only way you come to the conclusion that raiders made BW make this change is if you are so filled with hubris that you think your opinion MUST be the right one.

 

Even if you have that hubris it begs the question...

 

WHY PLAY A GAME WHERE THEY LIE TO YOU.

 

so then we have to ask, is it hubris? Or does the person that says that and stays at a game where they are blatantly lied too simply a player that cries when they don't get their way BUT will still stay regardless of their teeth nashing?

 

It can't be both, if you are a logical human being. Pick one.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Psychopyro]

On other Games.. maybe... not on SWTOR. Why, because real raiders laugh at SWTOR. Trust me years ago when I was a raider (and I mean close to a decade ago) I laughed at WoW because the raids were easy there compared to what I did..

 

Yea I love all these "Hard Core Raiders" that have no friggin clue what it was like back in the day.. But wait, they all say WoW was the first MMO ever so I mean well...

[thebobmaster]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

You know what? Even if I'm not entirely pleased by the buff, the fact that you are making an effort, and gathering perspectives in far more ways than just forums, I applaud you. THIS is the level of communication I would like to see. If something goes FUBAR, own it, explain that you are aware of the problem, and at least let us know that you are working on it, rather than making us hope that a problem is being solved.

[Ghisallo]

Yea I love all these "Hard Core Raiders" that have no friggin clue what it was like back in the day.. But wait, they all say WoW was the first MMO ever so I mean well...

 

Exactly. Even when WoW was at it's height the raids in EQ2 made the WoW raids look like dungeons and EQ lol... corpse runs ftw. SWTOR purposefully dumbed down even the NiMs from what those raids were...just by different degrees. I came here to chill out and when I saw that the casual vs hardcore battle was going on here I had to say... OMG both sides of that argument here are some pretentious, overly self indulgent sobs". here SM raids is little more than a 8 or 16 man open world heroic. HM... an 8-16 man dungeon. What they call NiM is a 8-16 man easy mode raid in every other game.

 

Still however people have to maintain a purely subjective peckng order, just moving the goal posts so they can say, on both sides...

 

"I'm SPECIAL!!!" it would be depressing if it didin't make me laugh.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Psychopyro]

Hey folks,

along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

-eric

 

One thing bothers me about this... They have been pretty clear as to what they expect H2 to be... Since we've had this explained to us, and they are now looking at it again, I'm almost afraid they are going to make the H2s solo and the SF instance Solo or Tactical....

[Neoforcer]

Heroic Star Fortress isn't a solo quest :^)

 

ya it is it has achievement for soloing it why would the devs do that i wonder because it group content?

[Riven]

End game is where the relevancy sits IMO. The early game is for story, boosts and crafting, nothing more.

 

Not for the VAST majority of players. Most players don't do OPs, a very large part doesn't even do FPs. They do story content as in leveling characters and do planetary stories. Mostly solo stuff basically.