So, can anyone explain why the "OP" companions were a bad thing for everyone?

[Pirindolo]

The people who were and are happy with the overnerf of the companions are the players that barely use them, cause they are busy doing NIM and HM ops mainly.

 

Those people that were asking for a nerf, and are now so happy with it, are very high skilled and are always saying "learn to play" to other players. But so surprisingly they were unable to toggle off some (or most of) their "OP" companion abilities, to make their gameplay harder. No, instead of that they were complaining and asking to make things more difficult and more tedious for everyone. Every player in the game must play their way, ane every player in the game must be as skillfull as they are, or else leave.

 

Can any of those players, please, say what was wrong with the "OP" companions? What was wrong, really?

 

Were your Nim or HM ops affected by the "OP" companions? Maybe the HM FP? Did you feel threatened by low skilled, casual players being able to do H2 in a fast and comfortable way? Or were you forced to use your "OP" companions with all the abilities toggled on?

 

What was wrong?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Pirindolo

[NeuroticCupcake]

It was because they were too stupid to figure out how to dismiss or pacify their companion in order to get the "hard mode" back. It's that simple.

 

For anything that mattered in the game, companions were a non-issue. Organized PVP? Nope, they don't come up at all. Operations? No one with half a brain would choose a dumb companion that can't move out of stuff for an operation. Hard modes? Ditto.

 

But hey, now that lots of grindy solo stuff wasn't as intolerable as it used to be, ****, the game is becoming uber casual! Whaaaa! We're going to cry and whine like little babies because that guy over there isn't having to spend half an hour getting through a single instanced mission on Tattooine, and I'm too stupid to hit that second companion button to turn mine off so I can take a little longer doing stuff so I can feel ELEETZ! Whaaa!

 

It's pathetic all around.

[JWagner]

I like to solo, but even I agree, the companions were a bit high-strung. We are supposed to be the heroes, not our companions.

Now, I disagree with how much they cut them back as well. They should still be feasible as they were, but their strength didn't need scaled back as much as they were.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

The people who were and are happy with the overnerf of the companions are the players that barely use them, cause they are busy doing NIM and HM ops mainly.

 

I'm pretty much a solo player. On a particular frisky week, I might get the weekly done for HMs or tacticals, rarely ever both. I have done two SM ops total, nothing harder. I like having my companion there helping me, and found it boring that they were essentially carrying me through.

 

Those people that were asking for a nerf, and are now so happy with it, are very high skilled and are always saying "learn to play" to other players. But so surprisingly they were unable to toggle off some (or most of) their "OP" companion abilities, to make their gameplay harder. No, instead of that they were complaining and asking to make things more difficult and more tedious for everyone. Every player in the game must play their way, ane every player in the game must be as skillfull as they are, or else leave.

 

I don't recall ever posting they should nerf companions, though I have stated my opinion that the game was too easy since I played through SoR.

 

Can any of those players, please, say what was wrong with the "OP" companions? What was wrong, really?

 

It wasn't challenging enough for me.

 

Were your Nim or HM ops affected by the "OP" companions? Maybe the HM FP? Did you feel threatened by low skilled, casual players being able to do H2 in a fast and comfortable way? Or were you forced to use your "OP" companions with all the abilities toggled on?

 

No, no, no, and no. Why should I have to tweak my companions in order to make the game more challenging? I don't care enough to go through that. I'll play as long as its fun, and move on once its not. Its a moot point, BW does not seem to have a good track record of making changes based on forum posts. I believe they did this based on numbers they were seeing in game, not because a few people said they should, but who knows.

[Pirindolo]

I'm pretty much a solo player. On a particular frisky week, I might get the weekly done for HMs or tacticals, rarely ever both. I have done two SM ops total, nothing harder. I like having my companion there helping me, and found it boring that they were essentially carrying me through.

 

Ever noticed that the companion bar has some toggleable abilities? Just turn some of them off to make them less powerful. That easy.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Pirindolo

[NeuroticCupcake]

No, no, no, and no. Why should I have to tweak my companions in order to make the game more challenging?

Well hell, with that logic the game should have been the most challenging thing ever for you. I mean, why should you have to tweak your OWN character in order to make the game LESS challenging. Why aren't you running around in the white pants/boots/chest and unstatted weapon you started with, using only the three or four abilities the game forces you to start with. That's about as hardcore as it gets at 65, which surely you can handle being the super awesome hardcore player you are!

 

I mean, gearing up? Ugh, tweaking things to suit your gamestyle is so hard and annoying. To hell with that, man. And having to visit a class trainer every few levels, or apply talent points. This is a GAME Bioware, I don't want to have to click stupid stuff in order to play! /wrist

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by NeuroticCupcake

[-Spc]

Because people like to punish themselves, if they get too good stuff.

[HarleysRule]

To suggest you should intentionally gimp yourself to make the game enough of a challenge that you can't just randomly mash buttons to beat it is ignorant. The game was never hard or time consuming to level in. 4.0 made pre-65 content trivial. Did they over nerf? Probably, but par for the course.

[Pirindolo]

I insist: Did any of the defenders of the nerf toggle off the healing/dpsing abilities of the companions? It was as easy as a few clicks to make them way less powerful. Or even more simple: why didn't they play with the companions in passive mode? It was so easy if they really wanted to have a real challenge.

[EightSided]

There was nothing wrong with companions the way they were. Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game.

 

If Biofail had been smart, they would have left them alone and let people use the grind to 65 to learn how to play the game, then added harder endgame content. Essentially two games in one. Learning game, real game.

 

All those people who re-subbed gone again.

 

And until the download fiasco is fixed, its still an ongoing faceplant for them.

[ZanyaCross]

Because, and this is going to seem counter-intuitive to some, having no challenge means people would get bored fast in this game and leave. Oh they say that having a heal-bot who can keep them topped off through nearly any assault, no matter how they play, might is fun for them, but I guarantee you that it wouldn't last long.

 

One of the most brilliant lines in The Matrix was when Smith said that the machines' first attempt at the virtual world was a complete disaster because they had tried to create a perfect utopia for humans to live in.

 

We need to have challenge in our lives, because without that there's no sense of real accomplishment either.

[Master-Nala]

Can any of those players, please, say what was wrong with the "OP" companions? What was wrong, really?

 

What was wrong?

 

That's easy. Artificial challenges like dismissing your companion, using them in a weaker role, or turning off some of their abilities, isn't a real challenge. What makes an accomplishment 'fun' is that you needed to overcome it. If at any time, you can just fiddle with a few settings and win, that's no longer any fun.

 

Now does this make it harder for less skilled or committed players? Yes, no doubt. But then nothing prevents those players from getting better. That's the corollary to your argument that people could make things artificially higher. Likewise, people could play better. Which solution is best ultimately lies with the developers.

[NeuroticCupcake]

To suggest you should intentionally gimp yourself to make the game enough of a challenge that you can't just randomly mash buttons to beat it is ignorant.

Yeah, it's far less ignorant to insist EVERYONE get gimped instead!

 

True story!

[Master-Nala]

Yeah, it's far less ignorant to insist EVERYONE get gimped instead!

 

True story!

 

It is, in fact. Suggesting that people purposefully use only a part of their abilities doesn't create real challenge. Changing the game so that everyone has to use their abilities makes the game actually challenging. Whether you actually want the game to be challenging is another issue.

 

But there is still plenty in the game to do that doesn't include soloing the Star Fortress H2.

[HarleysRule]

There was nothing wrong with companions the way they were. Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game.

 

If Biofail had been smart, they would have left them alone and let people use the grind to 65 to learn how to play the game, then added harder endgame content. Essentially two games in one. Learning game, real game.

 

All those people who re-subbed gone again.

 

And until the download fiasco is fixed, its still an ongoing faceplant for them.

 

Let me guess...you don't think telling people to turn off companions or intentionally under gear is telling people how to play?

 

Is this your first MMO? If you think only elitist basement dwellers could solo almost everything in this game before 4.0, or that leveling in this game was a grind, you should probably stick with FarmVille.

[NeuroticCupcake]

There was nothing wrong with companions the way they were. Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game.

Whole-heartedly agreed.

 

If Biofail had been smart, they would have left them alone and let people use the grind to 65 to learn how to play the game, then added harder endgame content.

Partially disagreed. A slight nerf was in order, particularly for healing companions. The real problem is the tuning of level syncing, especially for fights that were actually meant to be challenging (like most of the bosses in the Chapter 3 finales). It was pretty obvious because even without a companion, you still blew them up like nobody's business. But because the dimwitted elitist few couldn't figure out how to dismiss or pacify their companions, clearly it was the companions that was trivializing it all! Truth!

 

The hilarious thing is that the only content that (should) be challenging is the group stuff. Organized PVP, operations, and hard modes. In those cases, and those cases alone, I wholeheartedly agree that strong companions are a bad thing. Fortunately, they're a non-issue in all of those things, "OP" or otherwise. So using that as your rationalization for why the ridiculous level of nerfing was done is... well, ridiculous.

 

10%-25% nerfs over a few patches would have made far, far, far more sense. But nope, they just chose to make them useless to appease the minute handful of whiny babies who were too stupid to figure out how to dismiss them. THAT'll get them from making lots of threads and complaning on the forums! (As opposed to now, when it's even GREATER than it was before.)

 

All those people who re-subbed gone again.

Completely agreed. I'm one of them.

[Polly_Pocket]

Because, and this is going to seem counter-intuitive to some, having no challenge means people would get bored fast in this game and leave. Oh they say that having a heal-bot who can keep them topped off through nearly any assault, no matter how they play, might is fun for them, but I guarantee you that it wouldn't last long.

 

One of the most brilliant lines in The Matrix was when Smith said that the machines' first attempt at the virtual world was a complete disaster because they had tried to create a perfect utopia for humans to live in.

 

We need to have challenge in our lives, because without that there's no sense of real accomplishment either.

 

That's a tad naive. If you want challenge, go do HM/NiM. If you want a challenge try to solo Star Fortresses without the buff for the One and Only achievement. But to say players need a challenge while doing mediocre grindy/solo content in between story cut scenes while leveling appears out of touch or ill-informed.

 

Personally, I PvP and run HM/NiMs, so the change doesn't really affect me at all. I tested out the damage nerf to my 30 influence HK-51 and found it absolutely laughable though. Not only that, but his tanking felt far worse than before, not better.

 

I had started to level new characters again, because it was fun stomping low level planets again. Now, I think i'll pass. Nobody find's "challenge" while questing and leveling. They just find tedium. Strong companions fixed the tedium, but now that its back I think I'll pass and stick to HMs/NiM and PvP.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Polly_Pocket

[EightSided]

Because, and this is going to seem counter-intuitive to some, having no challenge means people would get bored fast in this game and leave. Oh they say that having a heal-bot who can keep them topped off through nearly any assault, no matter how they play, might is fun for them, but I guarantee you that it wouldn't last long.

 

One of the most brilliant lines in The Matrix was when Smith said that the machines' first attempt at the virtual world was a complete disaster because they had tried to create a perfect utopia for humans to live in.

 

We need to have challenge in our lives, because without that there's no sense of real accomplishment either.

 

So instead, nuke companions from orbit and DRIVE the re-subbers away. This makes perfect business sense!

 

This was something that was done for casual gamers and was working fine. No one was stopping you from toggling your companion to passive or gearing them down to make it more challenging. Your way of playing is not my way of playing. Just like you spend your money on things you want and I spend it on things I want. To try and say people should play a certain way is foolish. We'll all end up playing the same class, with the same gear, following the same rotations if you had it your way.

 

Your idea of challenging may not be the same as mine. No, I don't like being 3 inches from the monitor in a boss fight having to time each skill down to its split second in my rotation to win. Now THAT'S boring. To others its excitement.

 

I wish I could see the numbers but I'll bet the majority of players were seeing content they will never see again because they're being forced back into groups. Not to mention those that were having fun vs the elitists who think the game should be played this way and this way only.

 

Biofail at its best...

[TUXs]

There was nothing wrong with companions the way they were. Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game.

 

If Biofail had been smart, they would have left them alone and let people use the grind to 65 to learn how to play the game, then added harder endgame content. Essentially two games in one. Learning game, real game.

 

All those people who re-subbed gone again.

 

And until the download fiasco is fixed, its still an ongoing faceplant for them.

 

You're right.

 

The forced descaling was fine with the companions the way they were...but this nerf just destroyed everything enjoyable and it ensures that no player will ever be able to travel without extreme challenges awaiting them everywhere. Get knocked off your speeder? Expect to die. 2 mobs chasing you? Expect to die.

 

The companions were absolutely OP, but not by 75%...the change yesterday needs to be reverted as quickly as possible or Bioware will pay the price with subs. It's FOOLISH what they did yesterday...absolutely FOOLISH! This is a casual game...the hardcore players can travel without a companion if they want.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Ever noticed that the companion bar has some toggleable abilities? Just turn some of them off to make them less powerful. That easy.

 

Too lazy. I just log in, play, fail, learn from my failure, gear up, or both. If I log in one day and the game is no longer fun for me, I'll move on. If that explains it better than my previous post.

[Pirindolo]

the change yesterday needs to be reverted as quickly as possible or Bioware will pay the price with subs.

 

Nah, they won't reverse it. 3 or 4 days later they will say that they have paid attention (as usual) to what their customers are sayng, and they will soften than nerf by 25% more or less. Since the neginning their planned nerf was 50%, but they will do the same as always: down 75% and then up 25%.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Well hell, with that logic the game should have been the most challenging thing ever for you. I mean, why should you have to tweak your OWN character in order to make the game LESS challenging. Why aren't you running around in the white pants/boots/chest and unstatted weapon you started with, using only the three or four abilities the game forces you to start with. That's about as hardcore as it gets at 65, which surely you can handle being the super awesome hardcore player you are!

 

I mean, gearing up? Ugh, tweaking things to suit your gamestyle is so hard and annoying. To hell with that, man. And having to visit a class trainer every few levels, or apply talent points. This is a GAME Bioware, I don't want to have to click stupid stuff in order to play! /wrist

 

 

lol, nice, but imo gearing and leveling up along with becoming more competent in the game is part of the fun. Tweaking my companion down or dismissing them, or removing gear, opting to use fists only, playing with no AC, any of those other things I could do instead of just playing the game (leveling, gearing up, etc) is of no interest to me. I sure hope its ok that I have an alternative preference. I don't know what I would do if you don't accept that.

[ZanyaCross]

I had started to level new characters again, because it was fun stomping low level planets again.

 

And how long do you think the novelty of that would have lasted?

 

This was something that was done for casual gamers and was working fine.

 

Casual gamers would have gotten bored and left as well once the novelty wore off. You don't want to believe me, you don't have to, but it's completely true.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

There was nothing wrong with companions the way they were. Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game.

 

If Biofail had been smart, they would have left them alone and let people use the grind to 65 to learn how to play the game, then added harder endgame content. Essentially two games in one. Learning game, real game.

 

All those people who re-subbed gone again.

 

And until the download fiasco is fixed, its still an ongoing faceplant for them.

 

I don't believe they made this change based on "Just a small minority of elitist basement dwellers who think they're entitled to tell you how you should spend your money and play your game", but I could be wrong.

[SmilingFace]

This nerf is so rediculous in my opinion I really hope in the next patch they will include something like a $50 one off 200% 5 minutes exp booster pack in the cartel market so at the very least this extreme change to companions can be somewhat explained. Leveling was fun before this patch, in my opinion. Edited November 18, 2015 by SmilingFace