Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Calinaph]

Based on simple leveling, using my DPS spec/geared juggernaut, same tactics I have been using over the last few weeks and the only difference was that I had to be a little more careful when pulling gold/silver with multiple mobs.

 

At one point I had to use a defensive cooldown and another time I needed to heal up afterwards. So in my personal experience the only effect of the companion nerf is that I have to be ready to pop a cooldown occasionally and can't just faceroll everything.

 

as I said- not harder, just more annoying.

[LordArtemis]

Guys, we need numbers, not hyperbole. Please provide specifics if you can. Simply saying companions are "fine" or "garbage" is not likely enough to warrant a change and/or adjustment.

[Warjhinn]

1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

I do not approve of the change to companions.

 

Just thought I would throw that out there since you mentioned that input was important to you.

[CaptJames]

Guys, It is just my opinion, but I don't think they made the changes because of forum feedback. If they had they would have likely nerfed companions FAR more.

 

Yes, this is a substantial nerf, but it could have been (and I expected it to be) MUCH worse.

 

The companions I have checked so far remain substantially stronger than they were pre 4.0....but taking level sync into account, that is not enough....they need a bit more.

 

The problem is NOT the current strength, IMO it never was....the problem is level sync and what that means to most players. With a forced level downgrade a very strong companion is needed to have a similar experience to what we had prior to 4.0...which frankly was close to faceroll being that we overleveled the areas.

 

Overleveling to make the content easier is no longer an option....a strong companion is the ONLY option now if you wish to solo.

 

The folks that wanted the game to be harder will likely be disappointed....they will likely still find companions OP, and they will likely still BE OP in certain situations, just not as many as before.

 

So it is likely, IMO, that this change will make the majority unhappy....mainly because it is a bit TOO strong for casual folks, but nowhere near strong enough for hardcore folks.

 

I think a bit of an adjustment upward would solve that and make most folks at least acceptable to the change.

 

I'm sorry....WHAT!?

 

Companions are now weaker pre 4.0, definitely!!! (remember they had something called gear)

 

Kira Carsen could do 7-11k per tick on power strike (yes I know I don't have her again ...yet ). Now top damage ability on Nico Okarr, Rank 15 is 7k??

 

No they are not the same...they nerfed it too far and have made solo content unnecessarily longer and more irritating with the planet lvl sync. This is is just going to chase away more players. As SW is for all age groups, I want it to be around for at least a decade.

 

And the healing companions...OH MY GOODNESS...don't get me started. DOC pre 4.0 would take every companion to class, full 192s/some 196s and augmented. HPS was a bout 3k per second I think (can't remember). Now it's 1.1k!!!!!! on C2-N2 rank 10 for the same level1!!! lol

 

Ontop of this, there is now no uniqueness to any of the companions other than there damn mesh and textures.

[rantboi]

I know no one cares about dps companions but here's parses of rank 41 companion killing the same mob before and after nerf

http://imgur.com/WmYaBX0

 

got nerfed more than I was hoping but it's still good enough for heroics I guess

[silvershadows]

My patch is at 98.14 percent, as soon as I get in, I'll get in a SF and take some video, then upload it and see what we have. I'll include the video of me taking down the Exarch last night, prenerf, as well, for comparison.

[LordArtemis]

I know no one cares about dps companions but here's parses of rank 41 companion killing the same mob before and after nerf

http://imgur.com/WmYaBX0

 

got nerfed more than I was hoping but it's still good enough for heroics I guess

 

Thank you, that is exactly what is needed IMO. Actual numbers.

 

As one can see, at least IMO, this companion is underperforming by about 10 to15 percent across the board, whereas before they were likely overperforming around 20 percent.

 

Here is where a 5 percent presence/influence effect boost would come into play.

 

I would like to see someone post parse on a healing comp....preferably treek if possible.

Edited November 18, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Lexhorn]

I'm starting to get really tired of this. One last time.

- H2+ on Belsavis

- No companion

- No healing abilities

 

Either it's intended or I'm better player than most comment's on some of my other videos and on fleet claim.

 

This one + 1

[Lexhorn]

I know no one cares about dps companions but here's parses of rank 41 companion killing the same mob before and after nerf

http://imgur.com/WmYaBX0

 

got nerfed more than I was hoping but it's still good enough for heroics I guess

 

How do you generate this report ?

[DizzD]

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

Well, let them know!

[wycann]

My 2 cents on the companion issue. I am a solo player, I was extremely happy with the way the companions were as far as power. Please return them to such.

[Makillda]

- Hatred Assassin in full 208 comm gear using 186 relics, blue augments on all but the implants/ear

- rank 22 Lana healer

- I used the console at the beginning and grabbed all 4 lockers along the way

 

I decided to try soloing the Belsavis h2+ Star Fortress, mainly because I needed a paladin from that one for the achievement. In the first room, I knew that the heals were gimped a ton. Instead of Leeroy-ing every room after that, I played a bit more cautiously and made my way to the paladin. Two good things happened: it was the one I needed to pop the achievement (2 more to go for Fallen Knight) and I smoked it with little trouble.

 

The Praetorian was not too bad. The second paladin was one of the Force Scream users and he hurt me. Bad. I had to kite him a bit so Lana could top me off but I did not go down. I did pop the healing locker buff, though.

 

The ambush room was no problem. If you are in stealth when the knights pop out, you can CC one of them and take on the other solo. I killed the other 3 mobs before Mind Trap wore off, dispatched the other knight and started working through the reactor ring. I did finally die in the second console room because I got insta-gibbed by the spawn of four and a ground AOE at the same time. I was more careful and managed to get to the exarch fight with some minor difficulty.

 

The exarch fight was not that bad at all. I popped the turret and went to town on her. I did use the grenade and the healing locker ability, too, but not heroic moment. I always forget that exists. Anyway, I did have to kite a bit to let Lana top me off once in a while but it wasn't that much more difficult than before the patch.

 

tl;dr: Yes, they were nerfed. No, this stuff is not impossible to solo because of it. You will need to play it a bit safer but it can be done. Next test will be my PT. That should be interesting.

[SuperGrunt]

Never an issue for me, it's really simple, interrupt and nuke the companions, they don't have expertise. If you have PvP gear, they are basically 3 shot at worst and many times they wouldn't even survive 2 hits.

 

That's not really a fix. I was only at Influence level 10 with Kaliyo when I got into the battle in this video.

 

1 vs 1 Rakghoul Event PVP Battle

 

That should being you to just as the first fight is about to start, if not it starts around 2:17:40

[Ghisallo]

Well, it looks like the vocal minority got what they wanted, again...companion healing nerfed by 75% confirmed in game. As soon as these thread started popping up I predicted a ridiculous over nerf, and that's exactly what we got.

 

Can't say I didn't see it coming. Hope you all choke on your tedious grinding.

 

Hey look I show proof from one of the most respected non-profit polling organizations on earth that your poll was not to be trusted BUT you keep on with the "vocal minority" stuff.

 

That said the change was not done because of complaints. If you read Eric's posts it was their metrics that made them change this. You are one of the people who defended their use of metrics when it came to the nature of the expac...now suddenly their metrics are not to be trusted?

 

What arrogance does one have to have to have an attitude like this...one that boils down to "if the devs do something I don't like they must have caved into pressure" instead of what is usually the truth, namely, the devs do not think the aforementioned player's idea was right. Heck in the case Eric comes right out and says why tey did the change. If player complaints had anything to do with this it was only to prompt BW to look at their metrics and see the companions were over performing according to THEIR actual performance goals, not because of subjective player opinion.

 

You would be much better served to argue with BW over how and why they chose to set certain performance metrics. Then you address what is the real problem for you... just saying "they caved into..." doen't address any problem since that is not what happened.

[E-Zekiel]

Did some heroics on a few planets, and on average my companion was hitting about 60-70% as hard as I do.

 

As a shadow tank, prior to 4.0 (IE, at level 60) I was content with my companions doing about 110-120% of my own personal Damage. My damage came relatively close (bearing in mind I wear DPS relics), and I AM a shadow. But I still considered them my sidekick, as I did nearly as much damage, can think for myself, and have much, much more defense.

 

Now my companion has about 70% of my health as a DPS and about 60-70% of my damage.

 

I agree that the companions were overpowered before, and they needed to be toned down, but I personally feel they were toned down too much. They only needed maybe a 20-30% nerf. I personally feel a DPS companion should do about 150% of my damage. Prior to the nerf, they were doing about 3-4 times my damage, on average, excepting some extreme examples where I would stack buffs and hit particularly (and unusually) hard.

 

I did do Star Fortress H2 recently and felt my companion was too powerful, as I was able to fight the boss and largely ignore the mechanics when I swapped to my healer, but I really just honestly feel like this was an overnerf.

 

I can understand this may have been an issue on PVP servers, but honestly, I have long felt that companions should not be a factor in PVP combat. Maybe disable their AI when under attack by a player, I don't know. I do think you guys majorly overdid it though.

 

This isn't something I'm gonna quit over, as I still have fun doing heroics (which are still very soloable) and I like how easy it is to group up with people now and how much variety grouping in general has compared to how it has been in the past. But as someone who does enjoy the game and doesn't really necessarily plan on going anywhere just yet, please give my words some serious thought.

 

DPS companions should out-DPS tank players, even if it's by a narrow margin at low ranks. All my level capped characters are tanks, so I can't really speak for tank companions. Healers should not heal as well as decently geared players, but they should feel like a major help in a fight, not someone who barely knows what they're doing, nor should they make me feel nearly invincible.

 

I personally feel the way they were at 60 with the 192 sets we could give them was balanced, myself. And I think if we wanted to cater a little to more casual players, *a little* stronger than that would also be acceptable. But as it stands right now, they feel weaker than they did at 60, and I don't think that's okay. Again, bearing in mind I can't speak for using them as tanks, only DPS and healers.

 

TL;DR - companions were overpowered before but the nerf was too much. They should feel like a sidekick, not the main attraction, but they should still feel significant, and I don't personally feel that they feel very significant right now. If it were real life or something, I'd probably see them as a liability rather than an asset. Companions should be able to hold their own, in my mind, just not as well as I do, personally.

 

Suggestion: It would have been better to grant a diminishing curve starting around a particular rank that grew tougher and tougher the higher you went. Meaning past a certain rank, maybe say 20 or 30, the gain per rank gradually shrunk and shrunk (though it was still there), while toning down their post 4.0 balance a bit. Basically, tone it down from where it was, and factor in a diminishing curve so that ranks do not make their power get out of hand, and try to use level 60 192 companions as kind of a jumping off point for how they should be balanced.

[Keta]

Well, let them know!

 

 

yeah, there are a lot of threads telling them exactly that now.

 

 

It's important to those of us who play at odd hours (compared to many) where finding a group is might nigh impossible.

[AdarnVote]

I haven't been able to get in game to test the new companion strength with heroic 2's as Eric said we could still solo them, but it seems to be very disheartening so far to hear that companions are basically worthless or next to worthless now.

 

If Bioware made solo play a struggle just because of a vocal, whiny minority then I will not be renewing my subscription come December even though I was having fun and enjoying the game - making it so people are struggling to level(as evidenced by some posts on the forum) in basic quests is not a way to balance anything.

[TheSeer]

I haven't got logged in so I can't say but it doesn't sound good for those who don't' have max influence, presence, and the other buff. What I don't get is why they don't use the test center, they could have put it there first. Got feed back and then made adjustment before they put it live. Now the damage will be done, it's just sad that they don't use the test center when that why MMO have them.

[Robocles]

Hey look I show proof from one of the most respected non-profit polling organizations on earth that your poll was not to be trusted BUT you keep on with the "vocal minority" stuff.

 

That said the change was not done because of complaints. If you read Eric's posts it was their metrics that made them change this. You are one of the people who defended their use of metrics when it came to the nature of the expac...now suddenly their metrics are not to be trusted?

 

What arrogance does one have to have to have an attitude like this...one that boils down to "if the devs do something I don't like they must have caved into pressure" instead of what is usually the truth, namely, the devs do not think the aforementioned player's idea was right. Heck in the case Eric comes right out and says why tey did the change. If player complaints had anything to do with this it was only to prompt BW to look at their metrics and see the companions were over performing according to THEIR actual performance goals, not because of subjective player opinion.

 

You would be much better served to argue with BW over how and why they chose to set certain performance metrics. Then you address what is the real problem for you... just saying "they caved into..." doen't address any problem since that is not what happened.

 

Metrics... you're delusional. Those "metrics" existed before they launched the game. They wanted the OP comps to get people to sub an extra month... then pull this ****. My rank 33 healing comp was healing me for 419. Let that sink in. 419. How about you play it then post?

[Robocles]

I haven't got logged in so I can't say but it doesn't sound good for those who don't' have max influence, presence, and the other buff. What I don't get is why they don't use the test center, they could have put it there first. Got feed back and then made adjustment before they put it live. Now the damage will be done, it's just sad that they don't use the test center when that why MMO have them.

 

Rank 33 healing comp... 419 a tic. /smh

 

Time to drop sub and play fallout.

[LordArtemis]

I'm sorry....WHAT!?

 

Companions are now weaker pre 4.0, definitely!!! (remember they had something called gear)

 

Kira Carsen could do 7-11k per tick on power strike (yes I know I don't have her again ...yet ). Now top damage ability on Nico Okarr, Rank 15 is 7k??

 

No they are not the same...they nerfed it too far and have made solo content unnecessarily longer and more irritating with the planet lvl sync. This is is just going to chase away more players. As SW is for all age groups, I want it to be around for at least a decade.

 

And the healing companions...OH MY GOODNESS...don't get me started. DOC pre 4.0 would take every companion to class, full 192s/some 196s and augmented. HPS was a bout 3k per second I think (can't remember). Now it's 1.1k!!!!!! on C2-N2 rank 10 for the same level1!!! lol

 

Ontop of this, there is now no uniqueness to any of the companions other than there damn mesh and textures.

 

Khem Val

 

Prior to 4.0

 

Melee 2278-2654

Bonus 1872

Accuracy 94.8

Critical 11.4

Multiplier 50

Health - 56271

Armor - 5182

 

After 4.0

 

Melee 4025-4263

Bonus 3482

Accuracy 100

Critical 15.54

Multiplier 50

Health - 115911

Armor - 0

 

After 4.0.2

 

Melee 2729-2967

Bonus 2186

Accuracy 100

Critical 13.71

Multiplier 50

Health - 91271

Armor - 6133

 

Disclaimer; part of the better numbers is basing it on my stats, which have improved slightly, improved presence based on legacy datacrons and of course high influence.

[Robocles]

I haven't been able to get in game to test the new companion strength with heroic 2's as Eric said we could still solo them, but it seems to be very disheartening so far to hear that companions are basically worthless or next to worthless now.

 

If Bioware made solo play a struggle just because of a vocal, whiny minority then I will not be renewing my subscription come December even though I was having fun and enjoying the game - making it so people are struggling to level(as evidenced by some posts on the forum) in basic quests is not a way to balance anything.

 

Eric obviously doesn't play the game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Guys, we need numbers, not hyperbole. Please provide specifics if you can. Simply saying companions are "fine" or "garbage" is not likely enough to warrant a change and/or adjustment.

 

Do you need numbers or do you need people saying whether or not they are able to do the content they could do before and what is intended for them to do ( heroics and other solo content, don't really care if people can't use comps in FPs to be honest since that's arguably group content ).

 

You put up some numbers earlier but to be honest who cares? What matters is whether or not people can do the content.

 

The only number in conjunction with that I'm interested in is influence level because as I said for day 1 of these overpowered comps - BW would nerf it so people had to start raising influence to compensate.

 

I would be interested in 50 inf companions and how the content compares to before personally.

[Noyjitat]

They nerfed rank 50 companion healing by over 50% on one power and 75% on the other. Fix this or i'll have to consider finding another game with sane balance passes.

 

Check my numbers here:

Jaessa with rank 50 inf and all datacrons Previous and current stats

 

Soothe

previous

12919 heal with a 7.4 cooldown

Current nerf

3558 - 5033 with a 7.6 cooldown

 

So you nerfed the healing over 50% and it now does a random heal finally you also increased the cooldown

 

Ameliorating force

previous

18809 health 2.79 second channeled

Current nerf

 

4345 channel over 2.85 seconds

 

You greatly neutered this power and words cannot describe the frustration here.

 

Mending

Previous

4874 over 9 seconds with 11.2 cooldown

current buff

6336 over 9 seconds with 11.4 cooldown

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=854099

Edited November 18, 2015 by Noyjitat

[Robocles]

Khem Val

 

Prior to 4.0

 

Melee 2278-2654

Bonus 1872

Accuracy 94.8

Critical 11.4

Multiplier 50

Health - 56271

Armor - 5182

 

After 4.0

 

Melee 4025-4263

Bonus 3482

Accuracy 100

Critical 15.54

Multiplier 50

Health - 115911

Armor - 0

 

After 4.0.2

 

Melee 2729-2967

Bonus 2186

Accuracy 100

Critical 13.71

Multiplier 50

Health - 91271

Armor - 6133

 

Disclaimer; part of the better numbers is basing it on my stats, which have improved slightly, improved presence based on legacy datacrons and of course high influence.

 

Influence 50 I assume... my rank 33 comp isn't near that health any more.

 

And armor doesn't do a damn thing on comps atm... the story was fun, but the game is broken.