So blizzcon just happened...I feel sad..

[TurtlesAWD]

Those goal posts look heavy.

 

Regardless, everything in that link is cited info. Not made up.

 

So the "yes" entry in peak players for FFXIV is cited?

 

This chart looks flawed.

[Knockerz]

Yet that's still much more subscribers then SWTOR will ever have! You speaking about a game thats 10 years old for crying out loud!! Of course its going to be on the decline now...

 

I use to play wow from start of the game to lich king. Personally I feel they are milking it. Yet its still the most played mmo out there. No matter how much you try to belittle it.

 

Facts are facts people a 10 year old game still has way more subscribers then this game.

 

10 YEARS

 

Now My main question is what is keeping a lot of people still in wow? After looking at Blizzcon it seems like a major factor is the Esport community.

 

I don't see people sticking around this game for long if there is only 8 hour story content every half a year.

 

I don't particular care about how many subscribers wow or BW has ect. I play an mmorpg because I like it. I don't profit from the large number or subscribers a particular mmorpg has acquired, so I don't care. If I like a game I will pay a subscription and if I don't I won't. If an mmorpg makes a change I find is game breaking for my experience I simply cancel my subscription. It's that simple. They don't make a game I don't like I take my business some where else. I don't complain on the forums or make threads. The best show of dissatisfaction is to take your money else where. That is what companies don't like the most.

 

I started playing wow in BC and stop playing about 3 months after cataclysm went live. I can assure it's not Esports that people keep playing WoW. During BC, the pvp community was very large in comparison today it's nothing. The number of gladiators was in the hundreds if not thousands were now it's mostly in single digits or at most two digits. Since the number of gladiators is based on a percentage of total number of participants, it's easy to calculate the number of players that are participating. That is why it's incorrect to say Esports is what is keeping people playing wow. It's also incorrect to say it's raiding.

 

The reason I think most people don't leave wow is because they invested so many hours into that game that it becomes difficult to leave. I invested a lot into Tera, but I decided that after the changes that happen last December that the game wasn't what I like any more and left it all behind. The same was true when I left WoW. I can let go of a game, but many can't so easily. I know two people that still play WoW and still raid in that game like I raided nearly 10 years ago. I would wager that at least one them hasn't done much with their life, but that is for a different discussion.

 

Blizzard mentioned that the number of people who participate in endgame raids is low where pvp is even lower. I'm not going to look up the post, but in general their data supports the same trend in any mmorpg that has raids in them. The majority of players do not take part in endgame raids or competitive pvp. That is why Wildstar failed. In short, most players are casual players.

 

Last thing I should mention it's not always easy to move into a new mmorpg. I tried final fantasy and was so bored that I never leveled a character past level 10. It's easier to return to an mmorpg that you are familiar and have higher level characters than to start from new, which is why you see people go back to old mmorpgs.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Knockerz

[Mikahrone]

Those goal posts look heavy.

 

Regardless, everything in that link is cited info. Not made up.

 

"No. of players" is very misleading as most of those numbers are just number of accounts created. WoW had over 100m accounts created quite a while ago, but that means very little to number of subs. Also, with WoW (as an exception) as available data is that only 50% of subs are actually active players, rest just pay for sub and dont play (one luxury that WoW has over all other MMOs)

[hadoken]

"No. of players" is very misleading as most of those numbers are just number of accounts created. WoW had over 100m accounts created quite a while ago, but that means very little to number of subs. Also, with WoW (as an exception) as available data is that only 50% of subs are actually active players, rest just pay for sub and dont play (one luxury that WoW has over all other MMOs)

 

Well that isn't unique to WOW, that describes me from like June til October in SWTOR

[ikinai]

Girls in white dresses with blue satin sashes

Snowflakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes

Silver white winters that melt into springs

These are a few of my favorite things

 

When the dog bites, when the bee stings

When I'm feeling sad

I simply remember my favorite things

And then I don't feel so bad

 

Or you could go watch some cat videos to cheer you up.

[Anaesha]

Girls in white dresses with blue satin sashes

Snowflakes that stay on my nose and eyelashes

Silver white winters that melt into springs

These are a few of my favorite things

 

When the dog bites, when the bee stings

When I'm feeling sad

I simply remember my favorite things

And then I don't feel so bad

 

Or you could go watch some cat videos to cheer you up.

 

Mary Poppins really? You're starting to scare me.

[hadoken]

Mary Poppins really? You're starting to scare me.

 

It did the trick. I completely forgot what I was thinking about.

[ikinai]

Mary Poppins really? You're starting to scare me.

 

Oh I'm just getting warmed up, took some time off the last two weeks getting my wisdom teeth removed, so now I'm even dumber than before

[Falensawino]

Facts are facts people a 10 year old game still has way more subscribers then this game.

 

10 YEARS

 

Now My main question is what is keeping a lot of people still in wow? After looking at Blizzcon it seems like a major factor is the Esport community.

WoW doesn't have esports. It's nothing like Starcraft esports. MMO's aren't spectator or esports friendly. WoW's esports arena matches and whatever seem like promotional gigs or an extension of marketing for the game than any standalone professional competition.

 

Defense of the Ancients used to be a Warcraft 3 community made map. DOTA1 spawned WoW's true killer, League of Legends. I think the sole thing responsible for bringing down WoW subscriber numbers is the MOBA genre. Blizzard lost and they're struggling to catch up with Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch. (First Person Battle Arena)

 

=======

I remember a time when Warcraft was an RTS. (Real Time Strategy) I used to play Warcraft II in the school's computer lab back in the 90's. This WoW you speak of, what is this...?

 

Blizzcon's like a second E3 in some ways, kinda fun to watch even if you're not a Blizzard fan.

 

 

Overwatch is probably the biggest headliner this year. This thread had no mention of Overwatch until my post.

 

 

Have any of you seen this video?

That video got it wrong in the opening seconds.

He says: "The thing about story modes or story-oriented players is they consume content rapidly."

 

I thought content locusts were the end-game Raiders. Consume end-game content rapidly and move on, drop sub for months until new end game is released.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Falensawino

[Sith_Ravager]

That video got it wrong in the opening seconds.

He says: "The thing about story modes or story-oriented players is they consume content rapidly."

 

I thought content locusts were the end-game Raiders. Consume end-game content rapidly and move on, drop sub for months until new end game is released.

 

Its only hard-core raiders with first server kills that do that...most other Raid Guilds stay focused on finishing content, and completing catch up raids...

 

Actually with some of the stuff Ive heard from my guildies, and Ive read here and on general chat...alot of players plan to do the same with this expansion...drop the sub until all the story is finished then resub and figure it out from there. So no real difference between story fans and hard-core raiders...

 

I can honestly see their point, EA/BW should have waited a few months more and tossed in a raid, and maybe a PvP world...that way you would have guaranteed subs for a little longer...

 

I see a mass exodus in the next few months, due to boring repetitive content (OLD boring repetitive content)...and lack of more story...its just not worth it to sub for a an expansion that isnt going to be complete for months, and at most gives an hour of gameplay...I hope not...but I kinda see the writing on the wall

 

Also while WoW has been going strong for 10 years, lets not forget that EQ has continued for 16 years now and just released a new expansion...and its NOT for a casual player...

[Mikahrone]

Well that isn't unique to WOW, that describes me from like June til October in SWTOR

 

Ye, but there aint 2,5+m of you and you havent been subbed the whole time. I would say only when you heard of KOTFE you subbed, and people stay subbed in WoW all the time no matter what. Even if they dont play. Probably if they completely abandon WoW it would still have quite a bit of inertia till it all wears off ;P

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Mikahrone]

That video got it wrong in the opening seconds.

He says: "The thing about story modes or story-oriented players is they consume content rapidly."

 

I thought content locusts were the end-game Raiders. Consume end-game content rapidly and move on, drop sub for months until new end game is released.

 

Thats because thats what WoWs all about, endgame and raiding, story and quests are really mindnumbing, and its no wonder noone ever read quests and just clicked it away. Thats why SWTOR never clicked with those players as story and interactive cutscenes are meat and bone of SWTOR. If youre not into that....i really dont know what youre doing here ;P *spacebar warriors FTW* hah

 

WoW has audience that was shaped by their game and systems they made. Whats the point of saying "LoL players arent into PvE" duh Should SWTOR be retooled to that? Because LoL has many more players than WoW, so thats the way to go.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mikahrone

[GalacticKegger]

Facts are facts people a 10 year old game still has way more subscribers then this game.

 

10 YEARS.

I'll also wager that after 11 years (released November 23, 2004 for those of you scoring at home) it probably also has more content than this game. Funny how that works. Edited November 6, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[Mikahrone]

Its only hard-core raiders with first server kills that do that...most other Raid Guilds stay focused on finishing content, and completing catch up raids...

 

Actually with some of the stuff Ive heard from my guildies, and Ive read here and on general chat...alot of players plan to do the same with this expansion...drop the sub until all the story is finished then resub and figure it out from there. So no real difference between story fans and hard-core raiders...

 

I can honestly see their point, EA/BW should have waited a few months more and tossed in a raid, and maybe a PvP world...that way you would have guaranteed subs for a little longer...

 

I see a mass exodus in the next few months, due to boring repetitive content (OLD boring repetitive content)...and lack of more story...its just not worth it to sub for a an expansion that isnt going to be complete for months, and at most gives an hour of gameplay...I hope not...but I kinda see the writing on the wall

 

Also while WoW has been going strong for 10 years, lets not forget that EQ has continued for 16 years now and just released a new expansion...and its NOT for a casual player...

 

Ye, except EQ has like 10k players. And SWTOR has to do with what it has. Im sure BW would be most happy if they could produce 8 different class stories, new WZ maps and OPs and FPs and <insert whatever you can think of> on monthly basis.

 

the reality is that they have to be very picky about what they do, and, opposed to WoW, they actually HAVE their own SP RPG playerbase instead trying to poach WoW players.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Rustweaver]

Think of it this way, in four days, everyone will be playing Fallout 4.

[Cedia]

Yeah, I left WoW because I didn't want to spend $15 a month for a story that contradicts its own lore every five minutes, and to be browbeaten by the worst community I've ever seen in an MMO, and I've been playing them since 1995.

 

I loved it at first, went to the first BlizzCon and even bought an original Collector's Edition. Then the changes came, the catering to the loudmouth elitist raiders... ugh, I left after Lich King and never looked back.

 

SWTOR's biggest problem in the beginning was trying to compete with WoW instead of sticking with what BioWare is good at, and that's story and character development. I think they got it right with this expansion, if they could only fix the bugs and polish it a bit more.

[Makillda]

WoW hemorrhaged subs over the past year because World of Garrisons sucked hairy sacks. Draenor was actually fun but the game devolved pretty quickly into "log-in, check Facebook game, maybe raid, log-off." It was completely boring.

 

I'll likely sub back up to try Legion just like I've jumped back into every expansion since BC. Will it be good enough to keep me and the rest of us who are willing to give them another chance playing long-term? Who knows?

[Jeweledleah]

what amuses me about it is that unless they are hiding something up their sleeve? WoW is about to go close to a year with NO NEW CONTENT. and the new expac and cool as it looks? is $60 not counting subscription.

 

the hilarious part is when you go to MMO-champion, the mood is the direct opposite. up to and including people bringing up leaving WoW and enjoying TOR instead.

 

whatever issues I have with KOTFE (and there are many) WoW makes me actualy appreciate it.

[Mikahrone]

what amuses me about it is that unless they are hiding something up their sleeve? WoW is about to go close to a year with NO NEW CONTENT. and the new expac and cool as it looks? is $60 not counting subscription.

 

the hilarious part is when you go to MMO-champion, the mood is the direct opposite. up to and including people bringing up leaving WoW and enjoying TOR instead.

 

whatever issues I have with KOTFE (and there are many) WoW makes me actualy appreciate it.

 

And people laughed when i said long time ago Blizzard decided minimal investment in WoW because its not worht it.

 

For one thing, Blizzard is VERY business savvy, and they know that any increased investment will have very poor to no return. So why waste money? They are driving on inertia for quite a while now and they will milk every penny they can. They moved on from WoW.

 

It lasted for 11 years and it will last some more. It brought in absurd amount of money. But all things come to an end, and if you want to be successful you have to know when to quit and move on (also true for Titan). In a nutshell, Blizzard is going out of MMO genre (unless you count MOBAs and digital TCGs as MMOs) and that was sealed with cancelling Titan.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Canareth]

The only thing that will ever challenge WoWs relative size will be the first decent VR MMO. Age of Conan, Warhammer, SWTOR, TESO - none of these came close.

 

But the people that made WoW a world unto its own are in their late 20s and 30s now. Apart from independently wealthy folks and stay at home parents, no one has time for that anymore. WoW started bleeding subs left and right at the end of Wrath and has just kept going from there. Warlords is widely considered a garbage expansion and it all but crippled the game.

 

It's a different world now.

[Angror]

I wouldnt count WoW outta it yet. There movie is set to launch in 16 which will increase their subs just as the new Star Wars movie will do for this.

 

I played both games for years now. Each has its ups and its downs. In the end it comes down to a personal preference

[SithKoriandr]

Mary Poppins really? You're starting to scare me.

 

that was The Sound of Music. Wrong Julie Andrews movie

[Mikahrone]

I wouldnt count WoW outta it yet. There movie is set to launch in 16 which will increase their subs just as the new Star Wars movie will do for this.

 

I played both games for years now. Each has its ups and its downs. In the end it comes down to a personal preference

 

but thats just it, movie will hit, subs will raise, and all that without Blizzard doing anything about WoW, the game itself.

 

Unless they are really very good at hiding stuff (i *really* wouldnt count on it)

[wolfyde]

I wouldnt count WoW outta it yet. There movie is set to launch in 16 which will increase their subs just as the new Star Wars movie will do for this.

 

Urgh, did you see the trailer for that movie? Underwhelming would be an understatement.

I agree with what someone said on twitter; when your CGI orcs look worse and more fake than the ones LoTR did over 10 years ago, that's bad.

Die-hard Blizz fans will go and see that movie, but I seriously doubt it will bring in a lot of new players to their game itself.

[Jumajin]

Urgh, did you see the trailer for that movie? Underwhelming would be an understatement.

I agree with what someone said on twitter; when your CGI orcs look worse and more fake than the ones LoTR did over 10 years ago, that's bad.

Die-hard Blizz fans will go and see that movie, but I seriously doubt it will bring in a lot of new players to their game itself.

 

Now see, that didn't bother me about the Orcs, but I'm not overly interested in a Warcraft movie, either.

 

What is baffling me is that absolutely no trailer I have seen so far has made me want to rush to see Episode 7. Every trailer I've seen for Star Wars: Episode 7 has, honestly, looked absolutely boring. Might be the first Star Wars film I just wait for on Blu-Ray.

 

And fact: Neither movie is going to bring a lot of players into either MMO. There is actually very little cross pollination there, as even SOE found out with SWG and the prequels. I will bet money that Episode 7 is not going to suddenly create an influx of Star Wars MMO players, either.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Jumajin