Mass credit card fraud on the GTN

[branmakmuffin]

This ^^^

 

OP has a fundamental misunderstanding of credit card fraud. I would find it incredibly unlikely that there is a criminal organization out there that is using fraudulent credit cards to buy cartel items for in game profit. The suggestion is ludicrous. Criminals involved in credit card fraud are looking for REAL $$, not SWTOR credits.

It does not have to be the Mafia or the Yakuza for it to be unauthorized use of credit card numbers. Look at the names. Look at the prices. Look at what they sell. Do the math.

[thewitchdoctor]

I have been reselling ever since the game came out basically, and yes I know what I'm talking about massive dumps of hypercrates in the past on the GTN for about 3m each both on Harbinger and Shadowlands. No sane person would spend that 40$ for 3m in game, btw.

 

Just looked on Shadowlands GTN. 7 pm EST, Saturday, 7 Nov 15.

 

8 pages of Hypercrates. The highest is an embargoed crate for 24.0 million and the lowest is a present crate for 6.65 million.

 

The only example of undercutting I can see by more than a few hundred thousand (or an even million in the case of the embargoed ones running for 12+ million depending on flavour) is for an Outer Rim pack. Previous lowest is 12 million and then gets undercut - once - for 8.999 million. That seller's name, while it has an apostrophe, is not a random one.

 

4 listings of the present Underworld Alliance Hypercrate: 6.72 million to 6.65 million by 2 individuals. Whilst each has various accent marks and apostrophes in their names, they are arguably trying to be creative to get some desired name (i.e., not random names).

 

At *BEST* someone has already come along and scooped up your 'massive dumps' of hypercrates. More likely ... there has been a bit of exageration.

[thewitchdoctor]

It does not have to be the Mafia or the Yakuza for it to be unauthorized use of credit card numbers. Look at the names. Look at the prices. Look at what they sell. Do the math.

 

Again, besides exercising due diligence in refusing declined cards, what can Bioware *actually* do?

 

All you have as 'evidence' is people with random names and infrequent play time posting low prices on the GTN.

 

You only suppose that Bioware isn't, behind the scenes, 'following' the money. They have, at least once, made a big 'raid' on the RTM market this year. Those raids, like in the real world, probably occur after substantial 'intelligence' gathering.

 

People keep saying how 'obvious' it is that this is criminal activity. OK, what is this 'obvious' proof? And what, exactly, is Bioware supposed to do?

 

Keeping in mind that being a piss-poor steward of your money and buying a CM pack and pricing it for an instant sale is not a violation of the code of conduct.

[kcwin]

Let me explain how credit card fraud is used and why since some people are confused on this. The person or people will either use hacked accounts or use financial information that is floating around the black market. They then buy stuff and sell on the GTN until the account gets banned. They then make another account and repeat over and over. They do this in every MMO where is it possible for them to do it. They do it because they are basically PRINTING MONEY. They easily sell all game currency they gain from this and they make a lot of real life money. As a rough example say they get 50 million credits per server a day. Then looks at the spammer's price in game and you'll see the huge amounts of real life money they make doing this.

 

Also I don't expect Bioware to do anything to stop it because they most likely can't since its been going on for years now. The whole point of the post is to make people aware of it so hopefully it prevents some people from buying from these credit seller frauders. If you see someone with a gibberish name with many accents or possibly not. If they have a ridiculous number of level 60 tokens, hypercrates, gold packs, leveling bundles, etc.. Just buy from the next person who looks like an actual fellow player.

[Deyjarl]

Uhm, that is *all* you know of what you see on the GTN.

 

That's it. The rest is speculation.

 

You *assume* they are RMT. You *assume* Bioware doesn't do anything if told a compromised account has been used to buy their product. But you *know* nothing.

 

And that was the point of my 'one-sided' scenario.

 

So, do you have something beyond speculation?

 

No I don't assume all of them are RMT. That is why I said they INVESTIGATE, and if they find evidence then ban them.

 

So yes your scenario has no point other than to obfuscate the problem of of RMT and credit card fraud that goes hand in hand with RMT.

 

Again I have to wonder at those that want to protect and defend RMT so much.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Deyjarl

[Aeristash]

 

EDIT-2 Let me explain how credit card fraud is used and why since some people are confused on this. The person or people will either use hacked accounts or use financial information that is floating around the black market. They then buy stuff and sell on the GTN until the account gets banned. They then make another account and repeat over and over. They do this in every MMO where is it possible for them to do it. They do it because they are basically PRINTING MONEY. They easily sell all game currency they gain from this and they make a lot of real life money. As a rough example say they get 50 million credits per server a day. Then looks at the spammer's price in game and you'll see the huge amounts of real life money they make doing this.

 

Your title is seriously misleading. You have no proof that the people selling are gold sellers, much less that they're on hacked accounts. Lots of people use alt code characters as a substitute in their name, when the name they want is already taken. That doesn't make them a bonified seller on sight. I know you're attempting to make some type of connection to cc fraud, but it's simply a theory. A vague indirect unsupported theory at that. It seems you're angry about being undercut in the selling war and you're looking for some stones to cast in the blame game. Smh... When I read the title, I thought you were going to be talking about people stealing others credit card information via the gtn. Not... this.

[kcwin]

Your title is seriously misleading. You have no proof that the people selling are gold sellers, much less that they're on hacked accounts. Lots of people use alt code characters as a substitute in their name, when the name they want is already taken. That doesn't make them a bonified seller on sight. I know you're attempting to make some type of connection to cc fraud, but it's simply a theory. A vague indirect unsupported theory at that. It seems you're angry about being undercut in the selling war and you're looking for some stones to cast in the blame game. Smh... When I read the title, I thought you were going to be talking about people stealing others credit card information via the gtn. Not... this.

 

My title isn't misleading at all, it is clear and right to the point. People don't use alt code characters on gibberish names when the gibberish name is already available. Is it really a coincidence that on every server(high pop at least) there is people with gibberish alt coded names that are listing 100s of millions worth of cartel items in the GTN all day every day? Then after days/week they vanish never to be seen again but another one appears and takes over?

 

Sorry but in this situation you need to use your brain and put 2 and 2 together. That will get you the only proof that is needed. What are you expecting to see wire taps and emails between the frauders and others bragging about it? Someone from Bioware isn't going to confirm it because they don't gain anything from doing so.

 

If you want to play this silly game of "you have no proof" even though there is enough to point to fraud then I want you to prove they aren't frauders.

[thewitchdoctor]

No I don't assume all of them are RMT. That is why I said they INVESTIGATE, and if they find evidence then ban them.

 

So yes your scenario has no point other than to obfuscate the problem of of RMT and credit card fraud that goes hand in hand with RMT.

 

Again I have to wonder at those that want to protect and defend RMT so much.

 

And you fail to answer the follow-up question. The IMPORTANT one.

 

What should or could Bioware do?

 

You only have circumstantial evidence. What are they supposed to do? You assume they arent doing anything behind the scenes - so what is it you want them to do?

[thewitchdoctor]

If you want to play this silly game of "you have no proof" even though there is enough to point to fraud then I want you to prove they aren't frauders.

 

Don't be ridiculous. No one can disprove a negative.

 

I want YOU and the others to provide some answer of WHAT, based on circumstantial evidence, Bioware should do?

 

EDIT: I dont want you to, really. I dont care 'cause I think this is a patently ridiculous claim. I'd like to see you try and support the second limb of your statement - that there is something Bioware should or could do.

Edited November 8, 2015 by thewitchdoctor

[Bannidles]

And you fail to answer the follow-up question. The IMPORTANT one.

 

What should or could Bioware do?

 

RICO their strongholds and wiretap their mailbox.

[kcwin]

I want YOU and the others to provide some answer of WHAT, based on circumstantial evidence, Bioware should do?

 

I want YOU to actually read stuff instead of picking random things and making clueless replies. I already said like 3 times that Bioware obviously can't do anything about it since it wouldn't be going on for the past couple years if they could. The point of the thread is to spread awareness of whats going on to prevent some people buying off frauders, do you understand now that I said it yet again?

[thewitchdoctor]

RICO their strongholds and wiretap their mailbox.

 

There we go! Go strong, Bioware or stay home!

[thewitchdoctor]

I want YOU to actually read stuff instead of picking random things and making clueless replies. I already said like 3 times that Bioware obviously can't do anything about it since it wouldn't be going on for the past couple years if they could. The point of the thread is to spread awareness of whats going on to prevent some people buying off frauders, do you understand now that I said it yet again?

 

I've read this thread. Circumstantial evidence is pointed out to make your claim that there is some rampant credit card fraud going on with the CM and that Bioware isn't doing anything about it.

 

But, you acknowledge they cannot do anything about it.

 

However, you want us, based on your circumstantial evidence, to not buy from these 'fraudulent' others ... and presumably buy from you.

 

So, yeah, sorry, if I don't take your PSA seriously. But thanks for pointing out again (I do admit you have earlier) that there isn't anything Bioware can do.

[Deyjarl]

What should or could Bioware do?

 

Do you comprehend English?

 

Do: Investigate, then ban the accounts if they are RMTs.

 

And no trading money between known RMT accounts, and accounts tied to fraud is not circumstantial. Heck I wish they'd ban the people who buy from the RMTs as well as the sellers. Couple games took that stance and it helped a lot.

 

But again you are desperate to excuse RMTs. Bioware, here is another one of the RMT users.

[thewitchdoctor]

Do you comprehend English?

 

Do: Investigate, then ban the accounts if they are RMTs.

 

As a word, 'investigate' means nothing on its own. Investigate what and how? Think realy closely about what you are actually suggesting here, if you can.

 

So, you think my 'gibberish' named toon is selling RMT-bought goods on the GTN and you report me.

 

What is Bioware going to do in its 'investigation?' Are they:

 

Going to look at what credit card was used? Who in Bioware is now going to be authorised to see my credit card number? What are they going to do with it? Call the issuer? Is the issuer going to be authorised to tell them there has been a claim by the owner the card is stolen? What if the player is not the card-holder? What if it is a foreign card issuer? Does, say, Germany with far stricter privacy laws have different policies in what banks can tell to a second party transactor? Who is going to do this additional work? What database is now going to hold the cards that are being investigated? If, presumably, the database holding the card numbers for CM purchases is encrypted and has no client information attached, wouldn't this new database now require account names and presumably real names associated? Wouldn't that be far more valuable in case of breach and therefore require even higher security which costs money? How much does all of this cost? And, far more importantly, why should Bioware take on this extra cost? Legally, beyond not charging a declined card, what is Bioware even obliged to do? What if my bank tells Bioware my card has had some suspicious activity, are they now obliged to tell me? Again, what if the player is not the card-holder?

 

And then this: so you didn't like my name and that I charged lower than you think is 'legit' and you report me. Is my account now on hold because of your false claim? Is Bioware going to put accounts on hold whilst they 'investigate' your assumption? Risk losing players because you think I charged too little?

 

So, let me ask reverse the question: do you even think of the obvious consequences of your 'call to action?' It really doesn't seem so.

 

But again you are desperate to excuse RMTs. Bioware, here is another one of the RMT users.

 

I haven't excused anyone of anything. I simply think you are patently absurd.

Edited November 8, 2015 by thewitchdoctor

[Yorioko]

I've seen a few threads about this in the past but this has really gotten ridiculous. The AH on Harbringer and I'm sure most likely other servers is filled with credit card fraud items. Credit sellers use this as a big source to get their credits to sell and it seems Bioware has no intentions on stopping it. This is ridiculous that if players actually support and spend money on cartel items they have to compete to sell it with credit card frauders. Not only is it a pain to sell because they log on either by hand or bot and constantly undercut. They also drive down the price so people will end up getting less out of their cartel purchases.

 

For anyone who wasn't aware of this or doesn't know what to look for. These frauders will have long gibberish name with accents. For example Hägerçiugÿo (this is not an actual name of one of them just an example so not naming and shaming). They make names like this to make it difficult to report them. Not like it matters if you report them because they will be right back at it with another account. The items I see the listing most recently are level 60 tokens, hypercrates, and gold packs but I'm sure they list other items as well. Level 60 tokens on Harbringer right now are almost all completely from 2 credit card frauders.

 

I hope this thread will at least spread some awareness. Tell your friends, guilds, other players in game not to buy from these scumbags. Buy from the next best seller who doesn't appear to be a frauder. Support your fellow players and not credit card fraud credit sellers.

 

EDIT: Of course the fanboy army comes running defending this credit card fraud because they think I'm saying something bad about the game. You want proof? Add them to your friends list if you can catch them online or type their name. They will be a low level character and they will log on/off every so often all day to undercut. After a while you will never see them again because Bioware eventually bans them. They then make new accounts with long accent gibberish names and repeat so they are always there. It is pretty much common sense. Also players that make names with accents look nothing at all with how the frauders do it. The fact that people who have no idea what is going on will come here and defend it is sickening.

 

EDIT-2 Let me explain how credit card fraud is used and why since some people are confused on this. The person or people will either use hacked accounts or use financial information that is floating around the black market. They then buy stuff and sell on the GTN until the account gets banned. They then make another account and repeat over and over. They do this in every MMO where is it possible for them to do it. They do it because they are basically PRINTING MONEY. They easily sell all game currency they gain from this and they make a lot of real life money. As a rough example say they get 50 million credits per server a day. Then looks at the spammer's price in game and you'll see the huge amounts of real life money they make doing this.

 

Also I don't expect Bioware to do anything to stop it because they most likely can't since its been going on for years now. The whole point of the post is to make people aware of it so hopefully it prevents some people from buying from these credit seller frauders. If you see someone with a gibberish name with many accents or possibly not. If they have a ridiculous number of level 60 tokens, hypercrates, gold packs, leveling bundles, etc.. Just buy from the next person who looks like an actual fellow player.

 

 

I think I lost you here? How is this Connected to the GTN?

I realy really really USE the GTN in game dayly and almost all the time, never seen fraud there.

 

What I think you refer to are all the morons shouting out offers to buy credits, 2 million for 3 USD etc etc. some even mail People, a few "Nice ones" even send a token 1 credit in the mails....LOL.

 

Here is why I can't see this as a problem.

 

Cartel coin can not be traded.........

 

In game credits are FREE, not even particulary time consuming to get MILLIONS of either, so the only ones that really cry fraud here are

 

1 those that believe somone actually WANT to pay real Money fro free credits.

2 those who believe that cartel coin can be traded.

 

AND if you are DUMB enough to actually pay 3 USD in stead of playing for 1 hour, then sure you may feel cheated of the credits you fooloshly ordered in stead of got through the game

 

TRUST ME!........if there IS one free thing swtor the it is LIMITLESS and free credits ( actually not limitless, I have heard and seen referances that 43 Millions and then some millions more was the cap" , but I Call this limitless)

[Theeko]

you can probably have nearly 1b on one toon to cap, just like Swg but yeah there have been mass amounts of CM items before they changed it to the gold boxes somehow, usually every weekend in the past there have been like 4-5 pages all from the weird ascii names for 3-4m each in the past both on harbinger and shadowlands.

[Deyjarl]

As a word, 'investigate' means nothing on its own. Investigate what and how?

 

Laughable if you think someone isn't qualified to review charges there. CC transactions go both ways, they have rights also. The paranoia you have of someone "reviewing" is pretty ridiculous.

 

But I wasn't even suggesting that. They can look to see where in game currency is coming and going from that character.

 

They have well known accounts already that they know or have banned because of RMT. They can look to see if that account is transferring credits to those accounts now or in the past regularly. They can build up quite a bit of evidence that takes it past circumstantial that way, then start looking at CC transactions, etc.

 

But again the ridiculous fear you have of them well within their rights to protect themselves from fraud is amusing and uniformed. Time to take off the tinfoil hat.