Fevee Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Hence the title, it seems Bioware thinks a few kolto stations at the midboss fights means that flashpoints are suddenly all role neutral. No, that's not the case. Flashpoints are suddenly missing the required roles to even make it to the midbosses. Plus, you're sticking low-level players into complex flashpoints where they don't know their classes or have enough of a rotation to survive the battle. I don't care if everyone is bolstered to level 65; flashpoints have become hair-pullingly aggravating and tend to end in a quitting team. Fix it back to the way it was, not all flashpoints were created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoofa Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The number of tactical flashpoints I've had to drop out of is scary. I can cope with explaining mechanics to people (to a degree) but after the third wipe it's time to move on. When I'm queuing for HM and one pops I have everything crossed that the majority of the team will be lvl 65. Last night we had 4x 65's and it was great. We had a wipe, it was fun - felt like we would always complete it, but a bit of a challenge. Throw in a couple of lower levels instead and suddenly it's not fun any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heromofo Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 The number of tactical flashpoints I've had to drop out of is scary. I can cope with explaining mechanics to people (to a degree) but after the third wipe it's time to move on. When I'm queuing for HM and one pops I have everything crossed that the majority of the team will be lvl 65. Last night we had 4x 65's and it was great. We had a wipe, it was fun - felt like we would always complete it, but a bit of a challenge. Throw in a couple of lower levels instead and suddenly it's not fun any more. Yeah they can help us here by boosting players more and dropping the enemies health abit. If this mechanic is to stay because way too many wipes and i have been with lower levels that knew what to do. Just could not take the hit took hours to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatT Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Yeah they can help us here by boosting players more and dropping the enemies health abit. If this mechanic is to stay because way too many wipes and i have been with lower levels that knew what to do. Just could not take the hit took hours to finish. it's not that. Healers don't get their interrupts until about lvl 24. But some fp bosses are very hard to heal without one. (thinking of Hammer) bolster does not help one when they don't have the skill trained yet. They should at least section them out to say, 35 and under, 35-52 and 52-65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevee Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 After my level 58 DPS finds itself defeated after a few mobs on the supposedly-low-level flashpoint of Athiss, it reminds me that the healerlessness of our group needs a proper queue. Role neutrality in flashpoints was a stupid idea. Fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 - Heal before pull - Use CC, if you don't have long CC or it cannot be used then use stuns - Interrupt (this is very important in some flashpoints like Taral V) - Know the boss fight (Maelstrom Prison still causes a lot of problems for newer players who don't ask) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 There are only two tactical FP bosses that are a real struggle for people: Ortuno and Jos/Valk. Every other boss, with some explanation coupled with a willingness to listen, is pretty easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 There are only two tactical FP bosses that are a real struggle for people: Ortuno and Jos/Valk. Every other boss, with some explanation coupled with a willingness to listen, is pretty easy. I'd put Maelstrom Prison in with that as well, at least for Kilran. His snipe is brutal right now, if you aren't close to full hp it'll kill you, never mind that he now rolls back and start sniping as soon as you finish the conversation with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'd put Maelstrom Prison in with that as well, at least for Kilran. His snipe is brutal right now, if you aren't close to full hp it'll kill you, never mind that he now rolls back and start sniping as soon as you finish the conversation with him. I play mostly Imp-side. I have not done MP since 55 was the cap. So I will defer to those who do play Rep-side re: MP and Taval V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolfunk Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 There are only two tactical FP bosses that are a real struggle for people: Ortuno and Jos/Valk. Every other boss, with some explanation coupled with a willingness to listen, is pretty easy. I disagree. Some the Cerzka Meltdown is pretty tough even with explanation. The kolto nodes don't help. Some pulls, like in Athiss, were designed with trinity play in mind. Example being the 6 droids before the first boss in Athiss. People that understand CC (and have it) get past this fairly easily. A group of 4 without any CC (Marauder/Sentinel, really low level players, etc...) will struggle and probably wipe more than once. The problem I see is that much of the tactical versions to old flashpoints is they slapped "tactical" and "bolster" into the design without accounting for actual gameplay. Sure, most of these flashpoints are doable with 4 DPS. However these 4 DPS have to not only know the ins and outs of their class, but also understand that using the Kolto station is *everyones* responsibility. I've watched far to many people just sit and turret damage (snipers, sorcerors, mercs, etc...) and never move then die. Some even do this while sitting right next to a Kolto and never ever touch it. Its just stupid. Given the complexity of some of the flashpoints they probably should add brackets to them. Like Black Talon/Esseles and Hammer Station in a 10-20 range, Athiss 20-30, and so on and so forth. The only really faceroll easy tacticals that I find are the ones that were designed with solo mode active since Shadow of Revan. Those are so dumbed down on mechanics many can complete them without too much issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbidbleh Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The bonus boss in Maelstrom Prison is brutal with no healer since there is not Heal thingies on him. Some lvl 55 -60 -65 bosses have a bit too much HP and take ages to kill. but most dungeons are doable. I actually liked the WOTLK dungeons where you could Zerg bosses in under 30 secs if you do Bloodlust and all go DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) I disagree. Some the Cerzka Meltdown is pretty tough even with explanation. Then maybe the explaining or the listening is sub-par. I've seen some players' explanation for The Vigiliant as "Break boxes, avoid AOEs." Some new players don't even know what AOE means (I know because I have been asked more than once). Edited November 22, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canareth Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The bonus boss in Maelstrom Prison is brutal with no healer since there is not Heal thingies on him. Some lvl 55 -60 -65 bosses have a bit too much HP and take ages to kill. but most dungeons are doable. I actually liked the WOTLK dungeons where you could Zerg bosses in under 30 secs if you do Bloodlust and all go DPS. WOTLK also had Blood Death Knights (and plenty of them...) who could handily tank a boss without outside healing long enough to get it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbidbleh Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Then maybe the explaining or the listening is sub-par. The quake guy kill people too fast to kite him to pulsing green thing so, no really explanation fault especially if you are 4 melle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) The quake guy kill people too fast to kite him to pulsing green thing so, no really explanation fault especially if you are 4 melle The desert boss is the hardest of the 3 Core Meltdown bosses, but I do it all the time with other players' low-level characters. Some need an explanation and are willing to listen, some need an explanation and are unwilling to listen (the smallest category by far) and some need no explanation because they know it well and just happen to be on a low-level alt. I have vote-kicked many of the second type after a wipe. First thing I ask in a tactical is "Anyone's first time?" If I get no answer, I check the other players' characters. All Legendary? Then I don't press it because I'll assume they have at least a rudimentary understanding of how to do it. If I get no reply from non-Legendaries, I'll ask again. Still no reply, I ask "Do you read English?" Still no reply, I vote-kick (which usually goes through with the explanation of "Not willing to communicate"). If I get an answer "Yes, first time" I'll give a run-down of my understanding or how things work (which I don't claim is flawless). Edited November 22, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atalantia Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) The only one I cringe think about getting when there are only 2 55 or above is manaan the boss before the talk with the doctor is just was to OP for lowbies The rest of the instance isnt that hard with 20-30 but that Boss is a nightmare without 2 55+'s Edited November 22, 2015 by Atalantia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Tactical flashpoints are an exercise in futility atm. Waaay too many wipes. Still, at least when someone rage quits I can break out my level 30 Healer companion & say "lets DO this guys".........oh wait. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbidbleh Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Tactical flashpoints are an exercise in futility atm. Waaay too many wipes. Still, at least when someone rage quits I can break out my level 30 Healer companion & say "lets DO this guys".........oh wait. Never mind. This was funny, My 42lvl Lana would help if not for nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniGanon Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 IMO Tacticals have never been role neutral. A Healer was always necessary. Everyone else can be whatever, but the Healer slot is non-negotiable and the absence of one is cause for immediate leaving. Of course, some people find away as a 4xDPS group, but I sure as hell don't want to take that gamble when I don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muljo_Stpho Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Why do people in this topic keep suggesting that they re-add maximum levels for when you can queue for things? Minimums, sure. That would address the complaints in this topic by making sure everyone is high enough to have the abilities that the flashpoint was designed to assume that we would have. But leave them open all the way to level cap after that. It's nice not losing options in the queue as you level up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakhathKilrathi Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) IMO Tacticals have never been role neutral. A Healer was always necessary. Everyone else can be whatever, but the Healer slot is non-negotiable and the absence of one is cause for immediate leaving. Of course, some people find away as a 4xDPS group, but I sure as hell don't want to take that gamble when I don't have to. lolwhat The old tacticals were so easy that having a healer just slowed a group down. Literally none of them were difficult. Edited November 22, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyel Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 lol so much this! I've taken to respeccing my toons to Either tank or healer on both pub and imp sides, without them its just too painful, at least i can carry the group up to a point anyway. Also, HM's need restricting to 65's and a gear check would be useful, tried a few times with a 50 or 60 tank when i was healing and it was just too painful, i dont join HM's unless the whole team is 65, and im sitting here hoping they arn't in all green gear which happens all too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) IMO Tacticals have never been role neutral. A Healer was always necessary. Everyone else can be whatever, but the Healer slot is non-negotiable and the absence of one is cause for immediate leaving. Of course, some people find away as a 4xDPS group, but I sure as hell don't want to take that gamble when I don't have to. Please, a healer has never been necessary in Tacticals. Sure, if I get into a group with a healer it's a nice luxury (same with a tank), but it's hardly necessary. The only one I cringe think about getting when there are only 2 55 or above is manaan the boss before the talk with the doctor is just was to OP for lowbies The rest of the instance isnt that hard with 20-30 but that Boss is a nightmare without 2 55+'s That's Ortuno. It's not so much you need 55+s, it's more you need people who know how to do it or are willing to listen. Wipes happen because 1 or 2 get caught in his puddles despite clear discussion pre-fight about his trigger, the puddle expansion and the need to steer clear of them. Edited November 22, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Healer in tactical = easy mode Healer + tank in tactical = faceroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Large trash packs need a damage nerf, some boss abilities need to be tweaked and better balanced (e.g. a mistake hurts, but it doesn't outright kill a player), and bolster needs a bit of an increase at the lower level (especially HP and DR, but even raw dps / heal levels are absurdly low on bolstered lowbies compared to actual 65s wearing actual 65 gear). Edited November 22, 2015 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts