BioWare: take the feedback for once and increase difficulty going forward

[montreau]

My Scoundrel also died a couple times ... plus some very near misses ... takes the enjoyment out of the story ... I honestly have yet to experience these úber companions the tiny minority on here keep complaining about ... if difficulty was increased i would again need to outlevel stuff +5 levels to comfortably enjoy the game ... oh wait ... can't due to level sync ... so increaing difficulty would remove several playstyles ... whilst right now there are choices for many playstyles ... those that find it too easy just lose the companion & remove some of the skills off your bar - fixed ... you get your 'Challenge' & I get to play my way too :-)

 

Level sync still makes it possible to outlevel any content. For example if you will outlevel Yavin 4 (level 58 story area turned into "challenging" daily zone for outgeared 60's) game will sync your maximum level to 62 (4 levels higher). If u will visit Hutta, you`ll notice that all mobs are grey and you are able to one-shot almost anything, same with any other planet.

 

When you propose to turn off abilities, unsummon companions or use bad gear, you are talking about LIMITING the playstyle not the playstyle itself. In other words - all you say is "i don't want to be limited and forced but i want to limit other player's experience just because they presumably can do what i can't", kinda egoistic, don`t you think?

Edited November 4, 2015 by montreau

[VanorDM]

So I say the first group should have a voice...but the second group should likely be completely ignored.

 

I'd agree, options are almost always better. But the problem is the 2nd group as you point out aren't actually interested in options, they just want to make it harder solely for the sake of their own preference.

 

It's very much a matter of them wanting to take their ball home since they can't play how they want. Because if they can't get their way, then everyone else should suffer.

 

Returning to the days of EQ or UO simply isn't feasible, games like that can't make it in today's market. I've seen a few that have tried, and they either failed or never even got off the ground.

[Kianabamin]

Oh come on, you know they will.

They are just keeping it super simple right now to get lots of new subs.

Then they will change everything about the game they just sold everyone on.

[VanorDM]

They are just keeping it super simple right now to get lots of new subs.

 

So given the track record of making the game easier as time has gone on, you think they'll suddenly reverse course and make it harder?

[crimsiden]

Just came back and wow...

 

I honestly cannot BELIEVE that the absolute lack of difficulty is being DEFENDED here . I mean omg it is honestly incredible that people can defend this crap, years ago this would not pass at all for a game.People would play it, laugh, and unsub forever but now people are actually defending a game that takes zero effort to level through...This is incredible

 

When I first played this game on launch it was the BEST leveling experience I have ever had an a mmo. The story was engaging, somewhat challenging, and consist of several ways of leveling up your character. I LOVED having to gear you companion then watching the effort you put in as they destroyed things or healed you through a **** storm. Loved how everything in the game was a reflection of your own effort, and the feel you got after defeating a difficult enemy. Only reason I ever left was due to deployment and the utter lack of end game.

 

Fast forward 4 years later I am retired from military and looking for a good mmo and its like across the board every game has become has become utterly trash. Wow, Tera, Aion, Guild wars 2, ff14, etc I have literally tried every mmo and all of them were the same bland rush to 60 spam dungeons ********. Since when has this become ok ? How is this fun? The main appeal to me in a mmo is the leveling experience, then dungeons were just something I did every once and a while when I had time. Now the leveling experience is trash and dungeons are the game. I honestly find that sad. But ya after all those I came back to swtor and it was by FAR the worst. At least in the others I had to like ya know fight. I put my companion on tank mode, press attacked and watched him take out 9 mobs one which was a gold star. How is this even a game anymore? Hell its barely even an interactive movie !

 

For those who defend by saying "put you companion away " you are retarded. Games should be about the developers throwing everything they have at you and you having to do your best to defend against it. Not them making it piss easy and you having to break one of your arms, play blindfolded, and hop on one toe to make it challenging. I should not have to limit the features of the game to create a challenge it should already be there ! Companions are the MAIN appeal of swtor and to say I have to rid myself of that in order to now the game is just silly,without companions the gameplay becomes boring and with companions its not even a game anymore.

 

I know this post is pointless but I am utterly disappointed in what mmos have become, and even more disappointed in what the community has become. I mean honestly guys, how can you defend this crap ?

[Djiini]

Just came back and wow...

 

I honestly cannot BELIEVE that the absolute lack of difficulty is being DEFENDED here

 

Wow, I can't believe people like having fun!

See my signature, please.

[Anaesha]

Just came back and wow...

 

I honestly cannot BELIEVE that the absolute lack of difficulty is being DEFENDED here . I mean omg it is honestly incredible that people can defend this crap, years ago this would not pass at all for a game.People would play it, laugh, and unsub forever but now people are actually defending a game that takes zero effort to level through...This is incredible

 

When I first played this game on launch it was the BEST leveling experience I have ever had an a mmo. The story was engaging, somewhat challenging, and consist of several ways of leveling up your character. I LOVED having to gear you companion then watching the effort you put in as they destroyed things or healed you through a **** storm. Loved how everything in the game was a reflection of your own effort, and the feel you got after defeating a difficult enemy. Only reason I ever left was due to deployment and the utter lack of end game.

 

Fast forward 4 years later I am retired from military and looking for a good mmo and its like across the board every game has become has become utterly trash. Wow, Tera, Aion, Guild wars 2, ff14, etc I have literally tried every mmo and all of them were the same bland rush to 60 spam dungeons ********. Since when has this become ok ? How is this fun? The main appeal to me in a mmo is the leveling experience, then dungeons were just something I did every once and a while when I had time. Now the leveling experience is trash and dungeons are the game. I honestly find that sad. But ya after all those I came back to swtor and it was by FAR the worst. At least in the others I had to like ya know fight. I put my companion on tank mode, press attacked and watched him take out 9 mobs one which was a gold star. How is this even a game anymore? Hell its barely even an interactive movie !

 

For those who defend by saying "put you companion away " you are retarded. Games should be about the developers throwing everything they have at you and you having to do your best to defend against it. Not them making it piss easy and you having to break one of your arms, play blindfolded, and hop on one toe to make it challenging. I should not have to limit the features of the game to create a challenge it should already be there ! Companions are the MAIN appeal of swtor and to say I have to rid myself of that in order to now the game is just silly,without companions the gameplay becomes boring and with companions its not even a game anymore.

 

I know this post is pointless but I am utterly disappointed in what mmos have become, and even more disappointed in what the community has become. I mean honestly guys, how can you defend this crap ?

 

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that when lvl sync was announced people were up in arms at how they earned their lvls and now they wouldn't be able to go to DK and face roll right over the mobs, solo FPs, or solo world bosses anymore and now they are complaining the game isn't hard enough could it?

 

Seriously you either want it hard or easy People need to make a choice because YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!!

[Nefla]

When was the generic, grindy MMO combat in SWtOR ever difficult? It was always repetitive with enemies all using the same behaviors and the player using the same "rotation" of abilities for every fight. Now it's just less tedious and time consuming.

[jakeobione]

Seriously.

 

The days of hard content in MMORPG's are dead and gone, and NEVER coming back. People don't want to slog through tedious tasks after working 8-10 hours a day at a job. The Generation that grew up with EQ are in their late 30's early 40's. They are not College students with noting but time on their hands, anymore. New MMO players grew up with WOW and games like it, ZERO Challenge (outside of World firsts guilds) of which a fraction of WOW player-base ever even competed.

 

Seriously folks, it's DEAD, AND GONE. NEVER EVER coming back. Developers and Publishers will never spend money on a difficult MMO. NO ONE WILL PLAY IT OR BUY IT, to pay off the initial investment or sustain it.

 

You want a challenge ? Do what I do, Buy a legacy copy of EQ off Ebay. Down load Project 1999 Server package, and play Legacy EQ up to The Scars of Velious (best expansion). No game or MMO will ever come close to that difficulty, and the server is alive and well, it's full with veteran EQ players.

You don't even have to pay a Sub fee, Project 1999 is FREE

Move on, folks.

Edited November 4, 2015 by jakeobione

[Nefla]

Just came back and wow...

 

I honestly cannot BELIEVE that the absolute lack of difficulty is being DEFENDED here . I mean omg it is honestly incredible that people can defend this crap, years ago this would not pass at all for a game.People would play it, laugh, and unsub forever but now people are actually defending a game that takes zero effort to level through...This is incredible

 

Believe it or not, there are many people who play a game primarily for story and characters, otherwise Telltale Games and Quantic Dream wouldn't exist and BioWare wouldn't be popular. If SWtOR had a fun combat system to begin with then more people would care about it and whether the enemies die too quickly or not but it doesn't. It doesn't test your reflexes and personal skill the way a game like ME3 does and it doesn't test your ability to strategize. It tests your ability to click the same rotation of skills over and over thousands of times throughout the game.

[strallart]

People are too retarded to able to complete a tact flashpoint. I am sick of seeing never ending amounts of DPS that have no idea what to do. Especially sorcs that spam force lighting and literally nothing else...

 

The game isn't helping with this by constantly making groups of ALL DPS....which is an instant fail with the quality of the DPS.

 

I would say that this level of stupidity has been here since launch, but It has 100% gotten way worse since KotFE.

Edited November 4, 2015 by strallart

[Anaesha]

Believe it or not, there are many people who play a game primarily for story and characters, otherwise Telltale Games and Quantic Dream wouldn't exist and BioWare wouldn't be popular. If SWtOR had a fun combat system to begin with then more people would care about it and whether the enemies die too quickly or not but it doesn't. It doesn't test your reflexes and personal skill the way a game like ME3 does and it doesn't test your ability to strategize. It tests your ability to click the same rotation of skills over and over thousands of times throughout the game.

 

Just like every other mmo out there on the market.

[Nefla]

Just like every other mmo out there on the market.

Which is why I hate MMO's. I play this game because it's a story driven BioWare rpg with 8 different stories and sets of companions, not for the crappy combat.

[jakeobione]

Believe it or not, there are many people who play a game primarily for story and characters, otherwise Telltale Games and Quantic Dream wouldn't exist and BioWare wouldn't be popular. If SWtOR had a fun combat system to begin with then more people would care about it and whether the enemies die too quickly or not but it doesn't. It doesn't test your reflexes and personal skill the way a game like ME3 does and it doesn't test your ability to strategize. It tests your ability to click the same rotation of skills over and over thousands of times throughout the game.

 

Correct.

 

Which is probably why Bioware decided it's best to just speed up the tedious and awful combat in this game. Bioware made a fatal mistake with the Engine choice. It sabotaged any chance of meaningful PVP/Combat. The raids even suffer from the awful Engine this game runs on.

 

So Bioware is concentrating on what the engine does well with.

[Jadescythe]

This debate always ends up the same way here. With the anti-change group talking about hating grinding, not wanting the game to be hardcore, and how the game was never challenging. When in reality, no one is asking for a death to force you to reroll or for trash mobs to take 10 minutes to kill. If I wanted a game of purely cutscenes and dialogue choices, I'd be playing a Telltale game (nothing against them, they can be fun). If there is no chance of failure, then my actions are irrelevant (much like my choices in this game which turned out to be irrelevant as well).

 

This game needs to have combat that drives and enhances the story, not combat just to take up more time that you can literally AFK through. There are only 2 ways to die in the game as it is now. First, put your companion in DPS spec and pull too many mobs where you have aggro and don't heal at all. Secondly, put your companion in tank spec and pull too many mobs where you have aggro and don't heal at all. As long as your companion has aggro or they are in heal stance, there is no chance of dying.

[Mikahrone]

What feedback? didn't we had a poll and you loud mouth minority got beaten to the curb in end results? shut up already.

 

Yup they even made a poll to try and show their muscles, but it turns out it juts skin and bones

 

Naturally, then they proceeded to try and discredit their own poll

 

They whine on forums 24/7, same names day in day out. And then they expect that the game should be tuned to them lol It aint happening, BW listened to them in past 3-4 years and it didnt work *shocker* It has something to do with bad feedback.

[Anaesha]

Which is why I hate MMO's. I play this game because it's a story driven BioWare rpg with 8 different stories and sets of companions, not for the crappy combat.

 

Yep the combat and how easy or difficult it is or isn't means about as much to me as the TP I used this morning in the john. What I care about is the game's story content and how each class isn't playing the same cookie cutter story like most MMOs each class story is unique to that class.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Another thread to complain about something that a very small minority experience. I don't mind people expressing their point of view through the Prism in which they view things. As I said in other threads the constant creating of these threads is annoying. The people have spoken. The majority is fine with it. If you don't like it ..play a different game. Beating this dead horse to death.

 

On topic. The majority as reflected in the polls are fine with it. Now you can buy a level 60. It makes no sense for people who done the side quest a million times to make it even more grinds and longer then it needs to be. None at all. For the past three years people had the experience of useless companions. Now the formula has changed. What don't you understand about that. They are listening to feedback...good ones that wanted this change.

 

Mr Apple,

 

Would you please elucidate for us how you have arrived at the conclusion that this is a 'very small minority'? I think that the board community would like to know how you have such a direct line to the developers tools that show for you just how many people are affected by the OP's described issue, and how this relates to the overall population of players.

 

Please note as well that while some might consider his complaint a 'feature' others certain consider it a detriment.

 

Some may want things to be very easy because they lack the capacity to play a game of any level of complexity and would instead prefer to be spoonfed every aspect of the 'game' so that they just select conversation options to advance to the next section and they enjoy the pretty lights as they mash their hands on the keyboard during the combat sequences even though, in reality, it has no affect on the outcome.

 

Others may feel that they are having their enjoyment diminished because a game that was one of the easiest MMO-RPGs ever to be released when it was released I Dec of 2011 has been continuously made even easier to the point now where any schmuck can login for the first time, follow a trail of breadcrumbs and be level 65 within the span of 10 hours of play. That the rewards for doing the quests have been exaggerated, the number of quests required to be performed diminished, that all the 'special' things that were once found by taking your time and exploring have been made easier to acquire and all effort except that as measured by forced tedium with a predetermined result (you're going to win, no matter what, unless you purposefully make choices designed to make you lose) so that you ride a train to the end.

 

This may capture your imagination and be wonderful. Your experience may be different though the contents of that experience are exactly the same as the OP's.

 

Perhaps the OP wanted to express to the developers that they _are not_ part of a 'minority' as you term it and provide for them some feedback. Contrary to your spurious accusations in this thread and others, this player (The OP) has not started numerous threads on this subject (see http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=209042) and they are not required to post in a thread approved by yourself to express their opinion.

 

You do not know that this is a Minority v Majority issue. Heck, BioWare does not even have any information regarding that at this time. Just because many people subscribed to get the new content, does not mean they are all enjoying it equally just because someone posted a poll on a third party site with no protections against multiple voting from rotating IP's etc and where the poll itself was flawed because not everyone who wants a difficulty increase thinks it needs to increase across the board for all players, etc.

 

So stop with your constant assertion that you have some more perfect knowledge of the majority or the Minority. Stop acting like people expressing their opinions need to be contained under some arbitrary location that you deign appropriate.

 

Wake up and understand that even some in the Majority might come to find what they are currently 'enjoying' LESS enjoyable over time as they start to see that they are on rails and they are rushing to the end, predetermined, result with little real ability to affect the outcomes... eg.. it takes MORE effort to purposefully fail than it takes to succeed.

 

Just as well, some in the so called 'Minority' might just change their minds and determine that they are OK with the new direction of the game and adjust.

 

You just don't know and you most certainly do not have access to any tools or special knowledge that allows you to make the sort of blanket pronouncements you do when you respond.

 

For MANY the game is 'borked'. It has zero difficult and zero learning curve. They are upset that the 'most difficult' content is the content they do with other players and not because the content itself is difficult but because the players they are selected to play with are of such poor ability that they make the content undoable so much so its preferable to kick them out and pull out a companion and which point the content becomes trivial.

 

And its ot the new players fault. The game has been made so trivial and easy that they never once need to learn along the way how any of their buttons work. Interrupts, not necessary. cleanse, not necessary. Recognising AoE's not necessary. Learning an encounter and reacting to visual cues from the opponents to mitigate their effects.. not necessary. The 'modern' SWTOR player has all of this mitigated by the complete lack of difficult that has been introduced at most every level of the game.

 

And while it may seem fun in the short term, many find that over time this becomes tedious, onerous and not fun.

 

It is their right, as a customer, to tell the producerof a product what they don't like about the product, and if the producer of the product decides that they donot care, then the consumer has a right and a duty to stop providing the producer with their currency.

 

Just bear in mind that MOST of these people complaining at present have been consumers of the product for far longer than you and are invested in the product to a level in which you are not. For example, if I quit, I am tossing away a significant amount of money invested in cartel items and useless shiny things I purchased because I wanted to support the games producer and let them know I supported the game to keep it going.

 

The OP and others, are just telling the producer of the game, this source of income, _far in excess_ of the income you will likely ever provide for them with your opinions, is in jeopardy.

 

The producers of the game will likely watch and take time to see if this is acceptable to them or not. If they are making enough from 'new' customers that have shorter subscription cycles and lower product buy in that mitigates their losses from the players who purchased and stuck with the game as long as it was a MMORPG then the game will remain as you like it.

 

But again.. the OP and others have every right to express their opinion. I see that they get far more replies to their opinion from people who share it, than you did when you attempted to start a thread sharing yours.

 

Maybe this 'minority' has been quietly accepting the changes in the game as the price to pay to attract casuals but the price just now became one they were unwilling to pay. Maybe their voices have been in a minority because they just didn't bother to raise them until the proverbial 'last straw'. For all you know, there may be a significantly large silent majority who agree with them and they are only now represented by a more vocal minority on the boards. Maybe they are the people who have been bleeding off as subscribers for _years_ because the game has been continually dumbed down until it reached a point you were able to comprehend it and enjoy it.

 

Maybe it is truly a minority at this point because its the few remaining diehards, which, BTW, were responsible for 80%+ of their CC purchases and thus the largest chunk of their revenue.

 

So we'll see how it plays out.

 

My Opinion, if BioWare is going this way they should also do what Elder Scrolls did and make this game a single purchase. You buy the box, you get basically everything. Because the value of 1 hour of story content monthly is not enough to justify a $15 dollar subscription. if you are going to turn this into a single player game, with a single player narrative experience, it needs to be priced accordingly. If this was the game on release, I would have paid my $60 dollars (I paid far more than that for the collectors edition) and finished it, coming back only occasionally to check it out when I got bored. Just like every other SP-RPG game I have played. I would not have spent the over $600 dollars on a subscription alone that I have spent, if the game was released in the form it has now. I wouldn't have needed to. I would have downloaded it for free, I would have subbed or $15, and in less than two months (30$) I could have had every class to max level and the story all consumed. So I would have paid LESS than most of the SP-RPG's on the market.

 

And arguably, I would have had less fun than those as well because look at The Witcher 3 for example, or the coming Fallout 4. If Fallout 3 and New Vegas are any indication I am going to spend far more time in those games and I pay for them once _and_ they have some difficulty which can be scaled on a per user basis to ensure the game remains fun and rewarding.

 

You though need to stop. The 'Majority' has spoken to you about your 'contributions' to the board and the threads you deign to come in and muck up. Very few are supporting your view in these threads, so if your model holds true, you should just accept the majority opinion and shut up.

[Mikahrone]

Yep the combat and how easy or difficult it is or isn't means about as much to me as the TP I used this morning in the john. What I care about is the game's story content and how each class isn't playing the same cookie cutter story like most MMOs each class story is unique to that class.

 

Yup, its soooo funny:

 

Before: push buttons 1,2,3

Now: push buttons 1,2 OMG! ITS BRAINLESS NAU

 

Even funnier is that this comes from people who claim to be experts in the game.

 

To me it only shows how "high end" PvE is....

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Jadescythe]

Yup they even made a poll to try and show their muscles, but it turns out it juts skin and bones

 

Naturally, then they proceeded to try and discredit their own poll

 

They whine on forums 24/7, same names day in day out. And then they expect that the game should be tuned to them lol It aint happening, BW listened to them in past 3-4 years and it didnt work *shocker* It has something to do with bad feedback.

 

You do know the person who made that poll was against making a change, right? They have multiple posts in that thread telling people like you that they were on your side and you wouldn't listen. So you keep making these smug posts when in reality it makes you look ridiculous.

[DarthCalame]

I want SWG!

 

LMAO - HAD to say it!

Edited November 4, 2015 by DarthCalame

[Mikahrone]

You do know the person who made that poll was against making a change, right? They have multiple posts in that thread telling people like you that they were on your side and you wouldn't listen. So you keep making these smug posts when in reality it makes you look ridiculous.

 

Nope, it was one of yours.

 

It makes couple of you even more ridiculous.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Nefla]

This debate always ends up the same way here. With the anti-change group talking about hating grinding, not wanting the game to be hardcore, and how the game was never challenging. When in reality, no one is asking for a death to force you to reroll or for trash mobs to take 10 minutes to kill. If I wanted a game of purely cutscenes and dialogue choices, I'd be playing a Telltale game (nothing against them, they can be fun). If there is no chance of failure, then my actions are irrelevant (much like my choices in this game which turned out to be irrelevant as well).

 

This game needs to have combat that drives and enhances the story, not combat just to take up more time that you can literally AFK through. There are only 2 ways to die in the game as it is now. First, put your companion in DPS spec and pull too many mobs where you have aggro and don't heal at all. Secondly, put your companion in tank spec and pull too many mobs where you have aggro and don't heal at all. As long as your companion has aggro or they are in heal stance, there is no chance of dying.

 

Tell me honestly before the companions/etc...were changed, how often did you die in a fight? (especially against regular enemies) How often did you beat an enemy by the skin of your teeth and think "wow that was a challenge, it took all my skill and strategy to beat them!" The "challenge" of SWtOR combat was always just hacking away at bloated health bars. The chance of failure was always very low, and even if you did die all you do is revive on that very spot and try again.

[jakeobione]

Tell me honestly before the companions/etc...were changed, how often did you die in a fight? (especially against regular enemies) How often did you beat an enemy by the skin of your teeth and think "wow that was a challenge, it took all my skill and strategy to beat them!" The "challenge" of SWtOR combat was always just hacking away at bloated health bars. The chance of failure was always very low, and even if you did die all you do is revive on that very spot and try again.

 

I can count on Two hands how many times I have died in SWTOR since Beta... Not even kidding.

Edited November 4, 2015 by jakeobione

[Anaesha]

I want SWG!

 

LMAO - HAD to say it!

 

Bad Darth BAD go sit in the corner and think about what You've done!!