BioWare: take the feedback for once and increase difficulty going forward

[Thunderstriken]

The only "challenge" in MMO multiplayer is to find x other players that actully care enough and learn simplistic mechanics. Bossess in WoW like MMOs are scripted, its like playing chess where your opponent makes exact same moves every time

 

Yes, as I said, I've yet to see an MMORPG even come close to realizing the full potential afforded them by a large group of players. Although being scripted certainly makes a raid encounter solvable, there is still the initial task at hand to find that optimal solution that will work every time. Furthermore, certain approaches that might work with one set of players could fail miserably with another. Above all else, a large group of players affords the encounter a significant level of randomness. Someone can DC, a player could be afk, could get a phone call, I've seen a person get up to make a sandwich in the middle of a boss fight before. It could also be something as simple as missing a heal, hitting the wrong key, missing a taunt, there's really almost no limit to the possible random events that can throw a previously solved encounter off script.

 

So the point you missed is that although the raid boss and his minions might be scripted (they don't have to be by the way), player action certainly is not scripted, and therefore opportunities constantly arise where a player or several players can use their skill and knowledge of the game to recover from a bad situation.

[Pahana]

Another thread to complain about something that a very small minority experience. I don't mind people expressing their point of view through the Prism in which they view things. As I said in other threads the constant creating of these threads is annoying. The people have spoken. The majority is fine with it. If you don't like it ..play a different game. Beating this dead horse to death.

 

On topic. The majority as reflected in the polls are fine with it. Now you can buy a level 60. It makes no sense for people who done the side quest a million times to make it even more grinds and longer then it needs to be. None at all. For the past three years people had the experience of useless companions. Now the formula has changed. What don't you understand about that. They are listening to feedback...good ones that wanted this change.

 

He's wrong for all kinds of reasons. People like him love to think they know what they're talking about.

 

Here's how to shut them up:

 

Elite Server...we will just need one because nobody really wants to play on these. Regular content will all use higher caliber mobs. You will have to prove you can do 4k+ dps on Star Parse in order to be allowed on this server. That way, all the casuals will be gone. Raids will start with hard mode, go through nightmare mode up to FML mode.

 

See? Problem solved. Give the 100 people who think they're leet this server and the rest of us can have fun.

 

Normal Servers...servers as is...

 

Fun Server...as it was just before 4.01 patch.

 

Also, you will find this in the patch notes if you know how to look for it. They just nerfed companions. And they beefed up 2+ missions. They don't state it explicitly, but they did. Go try it out, see what you find. Tried a few today with Khem (around lvl 17 influence), and couldn't believe how weak and stupid he got overnight.

 

I had been thoroughly enjoying 2+ missions solo. Still have to be a little careful with pulls and cc, but I was able to rock through 2+s to make up for the 12x exp loss for story-based missions (for those of us who think the rest is a massive waste of time--not fun). Oh look, someone is having fun...NERF. So the original poster got what he wanted. And I guarantee, BW will pay for it over time because people pay for fun and leave when things aren't. They'll blame the idea that the lvl cap bores people, but that's just not true. They could have left a lvl 50 cap and added story content, new companions, even new classes, and people would still come back to check it out. Their problem is endgame content not that things are "too easy."

[Mikahrone]

Yes, as I said, I've yet to see an MMORPG even come close to realizing the full potential afforded them by a large group of players. Although being scripted certainly makes a raid encounter solvable, there is still the initial task at hand to find that optimal solution that will work every time. Furthermore, certain approaches that might work with one set of players could fail miserably with another. Above all else, a large group of players affords the encounter a significant level of randomness. Someone can DC, a player could be afk, could get a phone call, I've seen a person get up to make a sandwich in the middle of a boss fight before. It could also be something as simple as missing a heal, hitting the wrong key, missing a taunt, there's really almost no limit to the possible random events that can throw a previously solved encounter off script.

 

So the point you missed is that although the raid boss and his minions might be scripted (they don't have to be by the way), player action certainly is not scripted, and therefore opportunities constantly arise where a player or several players can use their skill and knowledge of the game to recover from a bad situation.

 

I havent miss anything. What you explain in detail can be simulated simply by throwing random crap at player in single player encounter (for instance tank fails to keep aggro in MP=boss randomly kills you in SP). You have your class and your job, with set abilties and thats it.

 

As i said the only challenge is finding x other people that care enough, game itself is not challenging. Actually MMOs are VERY simple. Encounter is exact same challenge every time you do it. Challenge of encounter does not change because you have lousy group, it just means you have lousy group, as its SAME encounter for everyone who plays it.

 

For you someone else failing is pretty much random event. If "Bobs the healer" cat jumps on his keyboard during boss encounter, how exactly can you have any effect on that? So throwing more people is just throwing more random elements into the mix, nothing more. The better the players you play with the "less randomness" youll have. Thats pretty much all there is to it.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[DalrisThane]

Bioware, I'm very happy with the reduced difficulty level. Thank you. I enjoy it just as it is. Heck, if you made it easier, that'd be fine too.

 

Oh, and if I am the minority player (as an ultra-casual)... if... then I'm apparently being catered to... over the majority!

 

THAT'S AWESOME! MORE PLEASE!

Edited November 4, 2015 by DalrisThane

[Anaesha]

I just want to say that ANYONE who truly believes that Casual players are the Minority and hardcore players are the majority is clearly on some damn good **** that they probably shouldn't be using.

 

This is your brain this is your brain on Drugs.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Anaesha

[LordArtemis]

Well, I naturally have strong unsubstantiated opinions on what was done right, and what was done wrong. Naturally they rarely line up with anyone else, as is the nature of opinions. For simplicity sake....

 

The game launched without expected systems in place, poor quality and full of bugs, poor support and was far to grindy/WoW clonish. The original dev team did not help matters with their arrogance and tendency to even insult their playerbase. The game bled subs at an alarming rate as a result.

 

I believe F2P/Market and the dismissal of most of the original team saved the game. I think the overall numbers have been on an upward trend ever since, most likely profit has. But it has been sporadic, with some great leaps in sub numbers followed by calamitous decisions that actually cost them customers.....

 

The balance crusade.

Lack of customization and removal of classic animations.

Disappointment with bolster.

Disappointment with GSF.

Disappointment with Strongholds.

Lack of proper communication.

Movement away from story focus for a while.

Poor handling of exploit issues.

The CSM debacle.

 

PVP and GSF continue to be major disappointments IMO, but I think Strongholds found enough utility to be accepted as a positive.

 

At the same time, there were many changes that were WELL received IMO, to balance out the overall mood.

 

CM and addition of armor/weapons/speeders/emotes.

Expansion of Legacy system.

12XP system

Game events

Training is free

Travel cooldown adjustments

Utility of Strongholds with Legacy Cargo and other terminals.

Difficulty reductions

Appearance designer

Treek and HK

 

You may or may not agree with this list, but if you do agree I would ask that you take a look at both lists and ask yourself....which list was one where difficulty was increased? Which one where generally difficulty and grind was reduced?

 

When they provided new systems for casuals and reduced the overall difficulty of the game, increased visual customization, increased utility and ease of travel things improved IMO. When they decreased any of that it had a negative effect.

 

Hence why the game is likely not dominating the market in this genre. With everything they do right, they do something wrong.

 

Overall the game continues to get easier as time passes. I believe it will likely continue in that regard, and I think this is the right way to go. A reversal of that trend would be a mistake IMO.

Edited November 4, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Jadescythe]

Im all for challenging solo content, I just dont think STORY is the place for it.

 

If you want to look up Liadri in GW2, and how only small number of players were able to beat it first time around. But that was side content in the event.

 

I actually WANT challenging solo content as that is chronicly missing in MMOs (one legacy of WoW, where Blizzard set it up that "solo=easy/casual" and "group=hard/hardcore" which is just the way Blizzard set it up and in no way some universal truth like people claim), but story/open wrold is not place for that.

 

Unfortunately, the main storyline is basically the only focus in the game right now. Everything else, including group content, had nothing new launch. And not everything has to be difficult, just something more than a predetermined kill regardless of your actions. I don't expect everyone to agree with my viewpoint, but I don't see the point in having combat at all if there is no purpose to the combat. All the combat in KotFE feels like it is just there to extend the time it takes you to watch all the cutscenes and not to actually enhance your experience.

[Wompoo]

The reduced difficulty level, is yawn worthy imo... when it comes to H2s which you need to grind like some cheap Asian MMO to keep the ball rolling (recycled content). As for story and difficulty not going together, absolute rubbish, "The Secret World" did it and did it very very well (and yes I still play that as well for its story). You know things are easy when you can shed your armour and run around in H2s in underwear and not die whilst fighting Champions. The problem is the companions are now godly., they are the real problem behind the mindless game play or face roll occurring now. However, the way they have designed progression for this content up date just compounds the issue, no godly companions means the repetitive grind of H2s and Fortresses would be crushing over time. All I'll say is the story in future episodes better be awesome or this game will be pensioned of to preschoolers and toddlers, while mum and dad watch as little Billy hits the I win key number 1.

[robertthebard]

And still you want this game as easy as possible

 

This game had some challenging fights before 3.0 and for most of the other fights if you went afk you would die. As it should be.

 

Where in what I said do you come up with that? Is it some irrational need to justify "but the game was hard"? Nothing about this game was ever hard, ever, unless it was hard before RotHC? That's about when I got here, and to this day I marvel at people crying about the "grind" to level, or the "grind" for gear. I look back at my days playing an older Korean Grinder, where in the time it took me to get 12 toons to cap here, w/out 12x xp, I might have gained 50% of a level, and I laugh at "grind" and at "challenging".

[TrillOG-]

You all can thank yourselves for the content being too easy. This forum *****ed and complained about how everything was too hard in 3.0 so now you have easy content but you're unhappy cause its too easy? Do you all even know what you want anymore?

 

You want something challenging then go into nightmare ops. If you don't raid then sorry to break it to you but you're never going to be happy because the content is not going to be difficult outside of operations. Which even then several if not all the ops got nerfed pretty hard so...

Edited November 4, 2015 by TrillOG-

[tomcn]

I'm baffled by OP, and I think Bioware might also be.

 

Look at it from Bioware's point of view -- they just added level-sync, which eliminates the face-roll over old planetary content by level-capped toons. Bioware could rightly claim that with 4.0, they introduced the biggest, most comprehensive difficulty increase in the game's history.

 

And yet OP is complaining that Bioware has made the game easier. smh

[WDreamer]

This game has been the easiest time I've ever played. Also I'm one of those players who mods up his gear as soon he reaches that required level and 4.0 is still so much easier with min/moderate presence. Saying to people who primarily play just the story missions you're supposed to get the challenge from OPs and Warzones or only from lvl 60 -65 is silly and ignorant thing to say. Dismissing your companion or playing naked even more so.

[Mikahrone]

This game has been the easiest time I've ever played. Also I'm one of those players who mods up his gear as soon he reaches that required level and 4.0 is still so much easier with min/moderate presence. Saying to people who primarily play just the story missions you're supposed to get the challenge from OPs and Warzones or only from lvl 60 -65 is silly and ignorant thing to say. Dismissing your companion or playing naked even more so.

 

Why its silly? Its SAME if you play naked or if BW buffs mobs so you need BiS gear. ABSOLUTELY SAME.

 

Yet, one is "silly" while other is "epic".

 

Youre not making any sense,

[Uruare]

Six pages of almost pure, butt ignorant hyperbole right here.

 

I like it. I like the fact that, at my skill level, I don't have to try very hard to do much of anything core to the storyline. I've been enjoying soloing the H2 star fortresses. It's not tremendously hard to do, but I'm chuffed that I can, in fact, solo them and rarely be bothered with dying.

 

The other evening, I wanted something a bit different, so I played Secret World all that evening.

 

Earlier today, I wanted to go retro and booted up Morrowind, and remembered all over again how much I hate those *** **** cliffracers.

 

A few nights ago, my boyfriend and I spent our Halloween morning playing Diablo 3 a bit, as he'd never seen the expansion stuff in it.

 

Do... Almost none of you play anything else?

 

I feel the need to ask this, because it sure looks like a lot of this pissing and sobbing is because a handful of very noisy people are throwing tantrums thaw the game isn't tailored to be their everything all the time.

 

So, I'm curious. Am I in some strange minority that, when I want a hard game, will load up Dark Souls and not SWTOR?

 

I have emulators for pretty much every emulated system in existence, and man... Man oh man, some of those old Nintendo games were hard.

 

Nintendo Hard, in fact.

 

Pick up a NES emulator and look up the 'Wizards and Warriors' from if you want to hate your life forever because you never realized how bad you actually were at a game ten year olds used to beat.

 

Get yourself a Sega Master System emulator and look up the ROM 'Golvelius' if you like Zelda-esque games that will quite possibly make you feel ashamed that your ever dared call yourself a gamer when actually, all this time, you were an infantile scrub coddled to the point of hilarity by pretty graphics and 'lolpuzzles' that practically solve themselves for you if you just cry harder.

 

Like some grind? You know you do.

 

I've got ever character on a Final Fantasy 3/6 SNES emulator save, all level 99, Illumina acquired, Paladin Shield unlocked.

 

Hard is it there in all the forms you ever wanted, and more that you never wanted, no matter what it is exactly you want.

 

Go ye forth and find it, ya damn bawlbabies.

 

Play SWTOR for what SWTOR is if you like anything about it.

 

Or go play that which you do enjoy.

 

Why is this hard?

 

Am I a magical Responsible Adult Fairy that takes unimaginable responsibilty for my own enjoyment of what I spend my time doing, and will do what I enjoy rather than just sit and scream and scream and scream at the thing I don't enjoy right now?

 

What the actual frack is up here?

Edited November 5, 2015 by Uruare

[Darkbloom]

An old argument has always been to separate the mechanics between PvE and PvP, maybe it could be taken further to separate the game into group and solo content.

 

You start to lose the Jack of all trades master of none that an mmo lumbers under and instead start to have separate games that share a central account/ social hub and art assets.

 

Bioware, listen to people like this guy. Don't listen to angry people!

 

Go ahead and make different modes of solo experience in the game, just like there are SM and HM ops now. Great idea! I even think it would be a great idea to make HM versions of everything, entire HM planets, who cares.

 

But I've been playing on again and off again since launch, and it is really fun to see so many people playing the game now. Please don't drive them away.

[Ruapehu]

Six pages of almost pure, butt ignorant hyperbole right here.

 

<snip>

 

What the actual frack is up here?

 

So, to summarise your post: "If you want a game where the combat involves you actually having to think go play something else". Be careful what you wish for.

 

I resubbed this evening, persuaded by the hype about a good story. The story so far for my 60BH (Merc) on its own is good however that is spoiled by the fights which cannot even qualify as faceroll. To be faceroll the combat would imply that you have to press more than one button. I played the character "properly" through the chapter 1 tutorial, using all the abilities in the right places as I used to when I played last until I found that the waves of faceless red-shirts including characters and elites died just as easily and did just as little damage when I sat in the middle and spammed "1". Sometimes I would have to move into line of sight but that was by no means needed as the companions foisted on me killed everything anyway even in healer mode. I got as far as the start of Chapter 4 before becoming bored and switching it off.

 

If a level 60 created using the boosting system is overpowered for the storyline then who balanced the equipment?

 

Please tell me the storyline gets harder further in or are the "press 1 until everything is dead" fests just filler between conversation options?

 

Bioware have a fantastic opportunity with the hype flying around to do with everything Star Wars, I just hope they do not miss the boat.

[Jaxtarii]

When "difficult, rewarding" content was in vogue, what you had was the handful of players who were able to burn through content through a combination of time and/or gear overpowering and a skill advantage becoming bored once they'd consumed that which they wanted, and would find ways which negatively affected their fellow player, either by taking over landing areas on PvP servers and destroying low levels who landed, keeping World Bosses perma-dead by soloing them upon spawn, even without needing anything the boss provided, by belligerently lashing out at more casual players, deriding their limitations, etc.

 

The decision to remove theorycrafting from the main storyline was quite possibly, among the best decisions in the history of MMO's. I hope that content can be made that supports the theorycrafter playstyle, and the min/maxer style, but it should never be the primary culture of a game, ever, and BW has done something truly amazing by extracting the urge to min/max from the story thrust of the game.

 

The biggest mistake Blizzard ever made was the transition from Wrath of the Lich King, which was derided by hardcore players as overly easy, too accessible by the filthy peasants, etc, which led to Cataclysm, which led to the most massive subscriber exodus in the history of MMO's, more people cancelled than subscribe to most other MMO's. KotFE, and princible of removing theorycrafting from the solo game and from the storyline, is among the best choices this game has ever made, which will have broad appeal to the market. Clamping down to placate people who are motivated by how exclusionary their HM ops are is the most certain way to doom this game.

[WDreamer]

Why its silly? Its SAME if you play naked or if BW buffs mobs so you need BiS gear. ABSOLUTELY SAME.

 

Yet, one is "silly" while other is "epic".

 

Youre not making any sense,

 

Because it looks silly and breaks immersion if you're fighting mobs naked just to have the fight become interesting / rewarding . Duh.

Edited November 5, 2015 by WDreamer

[Pagy]

Another thread to complain about something that a very small minority experience.

Minority? prove that.

I don't mind people expressing their point of view through the Prism in which they view things.

apparently you do, as you're again, whining in another thread about people posting their opinions. after playing the game for two weeks.

As I said in other threads the constant creating of these threads is annoying.

so dont click on them.

The people have spoken. The majority is fine with it.

prove it.

[crimsiden]

So, to summarise your post: "If you want a game where the combat involves you actually having to think go play something else". Be careful what you wish for.

 

I resubbed this evening, persuaded by the hype about a good story. The story so far for my 60BH (Merc) on its own is good however that is spoiled by the fights which cannot even qualify as faceroll. To be faceroll the combat would imply that you have to press more than one button. I played the character "properly" through the chapter 1 tutorial, using all the abilities in the right places as I used to when I played last until I found that the waves of faceless red-shirts including characters and elites died just as easily and did just as little damage when I sat in the middle and spammed "1". Sometimes I would have to move into line of sight but that was by no means needed as the companions foisted on me killed everything anyway even in healer mode. I got as far as the start of Chapter 4 before becoming bored and switching it off.

 

If a level 60 created using the boosting system is overpowered for the storyline then who balanced the equipment?

 

Please tell me the storyline gets harder further in or are the "press 1 until everything is dead" fests just filler between conversation options?

 

Bioware have a fantastic opportunity with the hype flying around to do with everything Star Wars, I just hope they do not miss the boat.

I am in the same boat, once I realized how easy the game became i just stopped. Just quit Tera like after only a month cause it was too easy, now I come to this and its even worse. I mean the guy you quoted says just play another mmo, but is there really any hard mmos out there anymore? Answer is not really. What SWTOR did isn't unique or original every mmo is doing it. Making their game piss easy so people can feel that they are good at something.

[Djiini]

Minority? prove that.

 

That's a falacy. Just because it's impossible for us to prove means you can dispute what anyone with two eyes can plainly see.

[Pagy]

That's a falacy. Just because it's impossible for us to prove means you can dispute what anyone with two eyes can plainly see.

thats convenient, claim something is "plainly seen" with no proof.

 

good job lol

[Anaesha]

thats convenient, claim something is "plainly seen" with no proof.

 

good job lol

 

It's no different then the people in your camp claiming they're the majority like they did with lvl sync.

[Ouardajason]

So? if you wan to suffer in pain and agony - strip your character clothes off - cover your self in honey - piss off some africanized honey bees - zone into a flash point

 

For the love of god you can just sit there and spam regular attack while eating a sandwich, no casual can tell me anything about it feels right. The story is great but the entire experience feels lackluster given no effort goes into anything you fight.

[Ruapehu]

It's no different then the people in your camp claiming they're the majority like they did with lvl sync.

 

Can you answer this question: Does the combat get any more challenging after the start of chapter 4. I understand that one persons challenging is anothers faceroll but I am trying to find some confirmation that challenge exists outside of the usual reply of "play the game with your character naked and punch everything to death" shtaco.

 

If it doesn't then I can unsub again, uninstall and leave you all to have your spat about who is the majority or not until they realise what opportunity passed them by and switch the lights off.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ruapehu