PVP should be priority

[Ottoattack]

I have heard that story is priority, yet all we got was 8 hours of content that is no more than 7/10, with no replay-ability.

 

So, if you are expecting PvP or PvE or any playable content anytime soon GL.

[DariusCalera]

The PvP community has quite a bit of improving they could be doing as well, seeing as how interactions with the PvP players usually consists of "This is why you should lose" and "You suck because you lost."

 

You can stil get those responses from PvE as well. Especially in a PUG.

 

Very rarely will you get those response on a guild run just like you will very rarely get those responses if you run with guildies in PvP.

 

However, this also goes back to what I was saying earlier about the tutorials. Putting those ingame so that new players have a better idea of what is going on will cut down on statements like that as well.

 

As for the over all saltiness of PvPers here's something to contemplate:

 

PvP has not gotten a new WZ in two years. (Yes, that is two xpacs with nothing)

The last PvP "content" that BW added was the reduction of the prices of gear. Which, btw, people still complain about being too expensive. (Those complaining are usually PvEers jumping in WZs with <1k expertise ang getting wrecked)

PvP balance in Ranked is absolutey abyssmal.

The PvPers warned BW that 4v4 was a terrible game type and would lead to problems in balancing. They were ignored.

PvPers offered solutions to numerous problems, some of which were extremely well thought out and written, but were ignored.

 

The saltiness comes from the years of being ignored by the Devs.

 

If BW, as some players suggest they do, removed PvP totally from the game, you would also see a rather large drop in PvE as well because a lot of people enjoy both aspects and want both aspects to get the attention that they need in order to thrive. Remove one, and you remove a lot of what people do in their spare time inbetween operations.

Edited November 1, 2015 by DariusCalera

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This game was a PVP game from the start and created some of the best new maps for battle grounds in a long, long time.

 

MOBA games are hot right now because they are PVP oriented but you got MMOs like this game and WOW who have lost sight of that listening to PVE players and than wonder why their subscriptions are falling and the genre is dying.

 

The only game worth any time really is Wildstar in my opinion. They give you pretty much anything these games give you. I am frustrated with SWTOR because the restrictions it has implimented on to PVP along with piss poor management of the priority of PVP.

 

The major difference I see between this PVP and most of the popular MOBA PVP is gear barrier.

 

Those games I can jump in and play right now and worry not about if I'm under geared and will lose accordingly, I'll lose because players are better.

 

This game I can't just queue up and play on a level footing because of the stupid gear barrier, I have to grind just to get to a level footing for long term unranked pvp play.

 

Remove gearing, make PVP far more popular. Keep some sort of reward system in place etc. but just nothing to do with stat based gearing.

 

No doubt PVP players will say that this idea wouldn't work but then I am speaking from a player who hates PVP for the above reason and almost every time I raise it in chat I get tons of other non PVP players agreeing that it's a major turn off for them casually doing some PVP.

So disagree all you like, keep it as it is, it will never become more popular than it is and will not warrant any attention from Bioware because soo few people use it.

[Fardarter]

Before you can make PVP a priority BW would need to balance the classes, Since all "ranked" content is 4 man arena they would have a ton of work to do. Simply put some classes suck in arenas. So before you say make pvp a priority you should be saying make class balance a priority.

[Jaryk]

The major difference I see between this PVP and most of the popular MOBA PVP is gear barrier.

 

This game I can't just queue up and play on a level footing because of the stupid gear barrier, I have to grind just to get to a level footing for long term unranked pvp play.

 

Remove gearing, make PVP far more popular. Keep some sort of reward system in place etc. but just nothing to do with stat based gearing.

 

Two things here:

 

1) Since the recent gear cost reduction, I would hardly call getting on level footing a grind.

 

2) Even so, I have no issue removing the gear barrier; what I do have an issue with is removing stat customization. If you can think of a way to implement removing the gear barrier while retaining the players' ability to customize their builds, I'm all ears.

 

 

So disagree all you like, keep it as it is, it will never become more popular than it is and will not warrant any attention from Bioware because soo few people use it.

 

Again, as others have repeatedly mentioned, despite the fact that hardcore pvpers are a small minority of the game, there are more than you seem to think there are. Add in the more casual pvpers, and there are a lot more than you seem to think.

 

But even if the pvp population was the size you say it is, there is no part of the game that does not warrant attention and development.

[XiamaraSimi]

No thanks. The majority of players I have talked to in game do not PVP. PVP has absolutely NO interest for me.

 

If you like it, great!! Have a blast. However, if this game had been a PVP game to start, I would never have started playing it.

 

My advice would be, if you want PVP, wait for Battlefront since that is basically PVP only....

 

This. All points. If you really really are jonesing for a "kill other peoole via pixel with lightsabers/as boba fett" fix, Battlefront will be more your thing.

 

PvP in this game is god awful, i was on ranked teams in WoW so its not like im gung ho anti pvp, but here in SWTOR? Ugh good god no thanks...

[Ottoattack]

Two things here:

 

1) Since the recent gear cost reduction, I would hardly call getting on level footing a grind.

 

People through this around all the time. This is 100% incorrect. The WZ comms cost of the gear is not the barrier, and never was. The credit cost is. 14 augs + kits is 2-2.5 million credits. That is a lot, and makes a huge difference. In fact, a min maxed, augged raid gear is light years of unaugged PvP gear.

 

This is the exact same reason that I do much PvE, cuz I do not want to drop that much credits on just one toon to be competitive in PvE. It is the same exact reason I do not tank on my main, PT, cuz I have no interest in farming this much credits to aug, just to be competitive.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Ottoattack

[howieloader]

People through this around all the time. This is 100% incorrect. The WZ comms cost of the gear is not the barrier, and never was. The credit cost is. 14 augs + kits is 2-2.5 million credits. That is a lot, and makes a huge difference. In fact, a min maxed, augged raid gear is light years of unaugged PvP gear.

 

This is the exact same reason that I do much PvE, cuz I do not want to drop that much credits on just one toon to be competitive in PvE. It is the same exact reason I do not tank on my main, PT, cuz I have no interest in farming this much credits to aug, just to be competitive.

 

If you've been subbed for any amount of time at all, you should literally be making 2-3M credits while you sleep... Come on... 2.5M credits is almost nothing in this game, and spending that to fully augment 1 character is not a wall stopping people from PvPing or doing end game PvE...

[Max_Killjoy]

Every single healthy MMO is all about offering a huge pile of different side activities for a very diverse group of people. Ultimately TOR is all about huge collection of different, often overlapping minorities doing their thing. You wanna keep it that way.

 

 

" I do not care for Activity Y but recognize it as integral part of the game. I see nothing wrong in thought of it getting some attention now, since it has not gotten any in years. "

Seriously, above is like bottom tier when it comes to unselfishness. Not. That.Hard. to reach.

 

Well said.

 

Almost every MMO "community" seems to labor under an infestation, a pandemic, of people who believe that whatever they like about the game is the only thing that matters about the game; that their favorite bit of the game is played by either a "silent majority" or the "master elite" and that their opinions are the only opinions that matter; that every other part of the game is "unfairly" receiving "unwarranted extra attention"; and that anyone who doesn't partake in their chosen bit of the game is a disgusting unworthy wretch who should quit the game, delete their account, and possibly jump off something tall, immediately.

[StarMagus]

PVP just isn't all that popular in this game. I mean look at the huge threadnaught of angst, hate, and tears that spawned from needing to do at most 20 matches for an optional companion.

[LordArtemis]

PVP players, in my unqualified and biased opinion, is likely a tiny fraction of the game population, probably the smallest representative group of players in the game. Even if you add those that casually engage in pvp or dabble I still think hardcore raiders would outnumber them substantially, and both of those groups together would likely represent less than a third of all players.

 

So no, IMO, PVP should not only be last on the list, it is frankly a waste of resources in most cases. AND the constant balance crusade that has brutalized most of the classes into pale shadows of their former selves has actually likely hurt the games ability to recruit and maintain subs IMO.

 

So PVP has done far more harm than good in my eyes.

 

That said, I do think that if you can remove the constant balance efforts, remove the forced PVP aspects in the game there ARE ways they could encourage participation. And I would not be against such endeavors.

[DariusCalera]

People through this around all the time. This is 100% incorrect. The WZ comms cost of the gear is not the barrier, and never was. The credit cost is. 14 augs + kits is 2-2.5 million credits. That is a lot, and makes a huge difference. In fact, a min maxed, augged raid gear is light years of unaugged PvP gear.

 

This is the exact same reason that I do much PvE, cuz I do not want to drop that much credits on just one toon to be competitive in PvE. It is the same exact reason I do not tank on my main, PT, cuz I have no interest in farming this much credits to aug, just to be competitive.

 

Of course, on the other side of that, is the fact that any guild that runs PvE OPs will require you to augment your gear too. Unless of course, they really like carrying you for some reason.

 

Or, possibly, make a few friends ingame and see if they can make the augments/kits for your gear.

 

I've done this a few times for friends or new players that I was feeling friendly towards. They provided the mats, I provided the kits and augments and they got any crits as well.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

what I do have an issue with is removing stat customization. If you can think of a way to implement removing the gear barrier while retaining the players' ability to customize their builds, I'm all ears.

 

What are you doing now to customize your stats? It's soo vanilla since 4.0 would it be that much of a stretch really?

 

To alter stats now you have to basically have an entirely different piece of gear? Changing up your builds as in abilities would of course still be a thing since it's not really gear related.

 

Concept is to see how games like DOTA2 / LoL / CoD succeed and applying what can be applied to swtor whilst also seeing what differs and removing it and from my perspective the #1 issue is gear.

 

If I knew right now I could queue a WZ and I would be on level pegging it a 2 year veteran in terms of stats I would be much more inclined to play because I know skill is the only thing separating us, not that I enjoyed PVE and spent so much time playing PVE that for me to even try enjoy PVP I'm going to have to suck due to gear and grind.

 

There's an argument to be had that people can't even tell if they are getting better or not until they pass the gear barrier because the gear barrier can be inherently responsible for some of their failures. I.E. they may not have died or may have got that kill had gear been even. But since they can't tell this - all they can tell is they failed - they fail to learn a skill lesson.

 

Not to mention just the plain frustration at dieing so fast because of gear factors.

 

I just think back to games that I used to play quite competitively like the Jedi Knight series, Unreal Tournament series, Enemy Territory and remember sucking hard at those but enjoying learning to get better because I didn't have to think my gear being worse than someone else's was a core reason I'm doing poorly.

 

Add to that when you then have this MASSIVE amount of PVE content to do people can easily say "stuff that" and never really bother returning, you want to attract people to the content - not put barriers in their way.

 

The amount of people in support of the dumbing down of swtor ( companions now, how stupidly easy the story/bosses etc. are, bolster for everything almost ) also shows how casual and easy people want gameplay so if you don't adapt PVP to suit that then it's never going to pick up the numbers to warrant special attention.

 

Heck even when you do get gear you still have the meta crap about am I geared correctly, min/max etc. - it comes across as rather daunting. At least the dumbing down of swtor has helped that aspect somewhat.

 

Again, as others have repeatedly mentioned, despite the fact that hardcore pvpers are a small minority of the game, there are more than you seem to think there are. Add in the more casual pvpers, and there are a lot more than you seem to think.

 

But even if the pvp population was the size you say it is, there is no part of the game that does not warrant attention and development.

 

I didn't give it a number, all I know is that any aspect of the game that gets so little attention as PVP does is proof positive for me at least that it's pretty inactive in BW's metrics compared to everything else.

People have also put metrics around about similar ( if not this games ) MMO PVP for years now - how accurate it is I don't know nor can I be bothered finding which is why I tried to avoid the whole minority/majority argument in great depth but if people want to think it's a massive part of the games playing community and can't understand why it gets so little attention ... that's their problem.

 

In saying that, there is a new pvp map coming apparently *shrug*.

[Ottoattack]

If you've been subbed for any amount of time at all, you should literally be making 2-3M credits while you sleep... Come on... 2.5M credits is almost nothing in this game, and spending that to fully augment 1 character is not a wall stopping people from PvPing or doing end game PvE...

 

It does not exactly take 15 minutes to farm 2.5M credits, it takes a good chunk of time of doing the most two boring activities in the game: dailies and crafting. It is okay to aug once, but if I need to do it on every toon once for PvP and once for PvE to be competitive, it just does not work. I either have to dedicate ridiculous amount of time doing brain-dead, uninteresting activities, or just restrict myself to few toons with few specs.

 

Also, just because you and I have been playing the game since ever and are sitting on stockpile of 30-40 million, that does not mean everyone else is. It is a fortune for majority of the population.

 

Remains the most important question, why the f**k is the most important aspect of gearing to PvP requires killing mindless mobs

 

 

BTW, if PvP is of any significance (which is to safe to say it is not) first thing BW needs to do is remove the effects of gear, augs, datacrons and stims in WZs. PvP should not be gated by anything. This is the biggest turnoff for new players, and the biggest hurdle even for PvP veterans like me to invest time trying new specs.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Ottoattack

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The pure butthurt in this thread from PvEers about PvP is amazing...

 

The PvP community has quite a bit of improving they could be doing as well, seeing as how interactions with the PvP players usually consists of "This is why you should lose" and "You suck because you lost."

 

Called that one well Mourkoth.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Of course, on the other side of that, is the fact that any guild that runs PvE OPs will require you to augment your gear too. Unless of course, they really like carrying you for some reason.

 

Or, possibly, make a few friends ingame and see if they can make the augments/kits for your gear.

 

I've done this a few times for friends or new players that I was feeling friendly towards. They provided the mats, I provided the kits and augments and they got any crits as well.

 

Only really HM now, everything else is bolstered.

 

I don't get why they bothered bolstering PVP then had it so anyone in proper PVP gear was light years stronger anyway ( yes, hyperbole but on par with the general feel of PVP ) - defeated the purpose of bolster to begin with.

 

Maybe they should just try some pure bolster PVP where it's level and class = stats you get. You still pick your build but that's it. Maybe an extra mode to test it out *shrug* just throwing ideas out there because PVP does seem like it should be more fun than it is.

[DrakerNoir]

They should certainly give pvp more attention than they have in the past. I know that everyone uses the argument that this is a pve centric game but that does not make it a pve exclusive game. I do both but lean heavily toward the pve content but I do believe that pvp is an important part of the game. If the answer to those asking for more pvp is 'go play Battlefront" then it can also be said that those who only want an rpg game are better off playing Final Fantasy or Kotor. It's an mmo and it consists of both sides.

[midianlord]

[soapbox-in-brief]

 

True PvP-focus can only work in a sandbox, never a class/level/vertical-progressed themepark, because of among other things, the "level-wall," and restrictions on what classes can do what things in what situations better, with little or no counters by hard-coded design. (Run-on sentence is much go!)

 

(Although, granted, I have yet to see how rally-down will work in wPVP...Ideally, I hope to see some gankers crying about no longer being able to one-shot people 20+ levels below them with impunity.)

 

Among actual MMOs, EVE-Online is the only game that ever got this truly right.

 

[/soapbox-in-brief]

 

Face it, this is not a PvP game, and never was. There was a time when I did almost nothing but at end-level --On Mercs. And Slingers. And Sorcs when they sucked ****-- and believe me, it stopped being fun real quick.

 

It's a great fun thing for extra creds/comms/gear/XP whilst levelling, and the occasionally amusing diversion for ***** and grins at level-cap --not to mention a great way to quickly "ghetto" a set-bonus for raiding with, now that they've genericised them across both game-modes-- but in this game, that's all it is.

 

Come join us in EVE-Online if you fancy yourself a "real" PvP player.

 

Most such here would last a month, if even that. So to those, in advance:

 

Ur stuffs, I can haz?

Edited November 2, 2015 by midianlord

[Bothan]

Ok, I get that TOR is mostly a story-driven game, but hey, you really want to wait whole year just to play 6 hours? Or 1 month to play 30 minutes? I don't think so. PVP should be BioWare's priority, because this is something that players can play forever. We have a lot of top-selling games that only have PVP. Story should be something... additional, something players would look forward to, but not the highest priority.

 

That's you, not everyone. I loathe PvP. I would rather sit through seventeen straight showings of The Human Centipede than participate in even the introductory PvP mission.

[branmakmuffin]

PvP is a marketing check-box. Deal with it.

 

That's you, not everyone. I loathe PvP. I would rather sit through seventeen straight showings of The Human Centipede than participate in even the introductory PvP mission.

My Priority Missions terminal will forever and always have the "Intro to Warzones" quest. There is nothing BWEA can do to get me to PvP.

Edited November 2, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[DarthVengeant]

Clearly the OP never played KOTOR 1 or II.

 

That had zero pvp in it.

 

PVP is about 15% of an MMO, and that is how it should stay. Otherwise, what exactly is the point of a story?

[Jedi_riches]

Should PvP be a priority - certainly not, PvP players are a small minority in this game probably the same size as the hard core raiders.

 

Should PvP be given a little attention - Probably yes, but what can you give them probably new maps only but you can only bring so much to the same style all the time.

[JCabFer]

Almost everyone is not only happy without PVP, but they seem to hate it, and they would be much happier if it was removed from the game

 

I would like to ask all of you, who can play without PVP (and even without operations and FP's) for months, what do you do? Replay over and over the story with different classes? Send companions on crew skill quests to give presents to them, to gain affection? Travel from one planet to another, believing you are really some one from the "real" SW universe? I mean, it is cool, and necessary, to have a strong story, and I know many people want one.

 

But taking into account that this is a MMO, first M: MULTIPLAYER, if you are playing your story class endlessly, why would you play this, if that is SINGLE player? Like another story game, I could play it for some weeks, a month, two... But not for years... I see it as if you had KOTOR, and tried to play for 4 years, having an expansion once a year... I think it is impossible, and I find it hard to believe that anyone would do this...

 

As a MMO I think BW should work harder on MULTIPLAYER content, aka: operations, FP and PVP. But leaving it all abandoned? No way...

 

I think all the replies here seem to defend this only-story-path BW seems to have taken, because the MULTIPLAYER players (not only PVPers) have been leaving, since BW forgot this is not only a single-player-story-game.

 

And almost everyone says "if you want to PVP go play another game, PVP in swtor is awful". THAT IS THE POINT!! We want BW to work harder on PVP so it is not so bad, and everyone wants to play more multiplayer content.

 

Really, if you all want to play only story, why does it need to be an ONLINE game? why does it need to be a MULTIPLAYER game? That doesn't make any sense.

 

If you just don't want to do any multiplayer content, it's fine, don't do it, but don't beg BW to not focus (a bit) more on multiplayer content, please.

 

MMO, if there is no PVP nor operations, it is not a MMO. Remeber it, please.

[JCabFer]

And one thing I forgot to mention: being not a PVP game as you claim, why one of the restrictions for not being subscribed is to have only 5 PVP games in a week? That limit is ridiculously low!

 

I think PVP is the only reason I've been subscribed for that long (even though, at first, I was like the majority of you, I never wanted to touch PVP, and when I did, I sweared once again I wouldn't touch that ********* again). But here I am, several years later, PVE content cleared, and bored. I want to PVP and I learned to do it with every class.

 

If I am not getting new content for PVP at least they could remove that limit, 5 PVP a week is just too few games...

And "this is not a PVP game", so its impact will be very low, won't it?

 

PS: yep, I don't know how I could be here for so long just playing the same WZ over and over. I think it is more engaging and funny than playing the same stories over and over...

Edited November 2, 2015 by JCabFer

[Loranae]

The only thing baring me to do PVP or to try it again on this game (my first character is rank 55 and never went back) are ...... the players.

 

Agressivity, vulgarity, personal attacks, yelling, insults, cheating and macroing and more .... there is nothing appealing in all this.

 

I used to do some pvp on other games, and could do sometimes all day long, and was having fun but here .... no way.

i dont need my pride to be glorified that much.

 

So i only go to pvp when i need some coms, or when the game itself force me to do it for some quests