A Logical Argument For Nixing Level Sync

[zafrina]

I know there are many, many complaints about level sync so I'm hoping if BW sees enough of us talking about it and giving good reasons to change it, maybe they will. According to BW this was done based on feedback and personally I'd like to know exactly whose feedback they were listening to because it was awful.

 

It comes down to this: I worked very hard to level up 8 toons in 8 different classes to lvl 60 (now 65) and it makes absolutely no sense for BW to then take away all the hard work I put into those characters so that I can be like the noobs on whatever planet I'm on. I earned my levels and it's like being punished for achieving something.

 

If I want to go back to Hoth and get some planetary achievements and blow through elite wampas on my way to a datacron then I should be able to do that. If I want to ride through Dromund Kaas looking awesome because I'm lvl 65 as I pass by some newbie lvl 15's who think I'm cool and want to be like me when they grow up, I should be able to do that.

 

If they want to make things challenging for some reason then put world bosses in a special area where level sync turns on...I don't know (I'm not saying that's the answer)...I just know that this is seriously unfair and it takes the enjoyment out of going back to other planets for me.

[JWagner]

*grinds the npcs/mats/etc that I need for my Alliances missions*

*accidentally walks into the lv 65 shield generator area on the planet, not knowing, and gets blown away by cannons*

 

There are many reasons Level Sync is involved, and that's because the new content requires old-world visits. If you wanted to do tasks, you should have done so before Level Sync was in place. But I see no logical argument here except "I want to do this, without the extra time/work it requires."

[zafrina]

*grinds the npcs/mats/etc that I need for my Alliances missions*

*accidentally walks into the lv 65 shield generator area on the planet, not knowing, and gets blown away by cannons*

 

There are many reasons Level Sync is involved, and that's because the new content requires old-world visits. If you wanted to do tasks, you should have done so before Level Sync was in place. But I see no logical argument here except "I want to do this, without the extra time/work it requires."[/quote

 

You think that having to spend about 10 minutes on a planet justifies removing anywhere from 20-40 levels a player has earned? It doesn't. If I was afraid of hard work I wouldn't have 8 characters spread across every class and both factions; that was work. Me showing up on a planet to talk to recruitable companion for two minutes doesn't equal hard work.

This is supposed to be the personal journey of our characters, well my characters have fought hard to be where they are and it makes zero sense to remove that legacy from them. If I'm supposed to be the legendary Outlander then keep me legendary. I should be powerful and more than capable and keep whatever level I've earned. There are other ways to make challenges for players.

[JWagner]

And yet, oddly enough, you are still 5x+ stronger than if you were that level.

You keep your passives.

You keep your abilities.

The only thing that takes a hit is your stats.

 

So yet, somehow, it shouldn't be that much worse, synced or not.

I've gone out into the world.

I've experienced level sync.

And by gosh, it was so horrible being able to easily defeat my foes and barely take any form of damage.

[zafrina]

And yet, oddly enough, you are still 5x+ stronger than if you were that level.

You keep your passives.

You keep your abilities.

The only thing that takes a hit is your stats.

 

So yet, somehow, it shouldn't be that much worse, synced or not.

I've gone out into the world.

I've experienced level sync.

And by gosh, it was so horrible being able to easily defeat my foes and barely take any form of damage.

 

I've experienced it too and it's pointless. To use your own argument "And by gosh, it was so horrible being able to easily defeat my foes and barely take any form of damage" if that's the case (which it is), then why do it???

Level sync doesn't add anything of value to the game. Changes should add value or enrich the experience and level sync does not do that.

 

I love KOTFE; the story was enjoyable and engrossing and I like many of the other refinements, but level sync is useless and takes away from the hard work of players. The one interesting thing I saw was when I was in an OP group to take on world bosses and we could no longer ignore their mechanics because of level sync, hence my suggestion that if BW wants to make things challenging then fine, enable level sync in certain areas to make it interesting but not on every planet, everywhere.

[Palidasus]

I think having to pay attention to the mechanics again actually makes the game more fun, because you stop just blowing through everything on autopilot like your skill no longer matters, and it brings the game back into the gaming. It presents you with a challenge again to see if you can remember how to do the content or navigate it successfully. Which is a lot of the reason to play an MMO, I feel like.

 

Because of all your new abilities and bonuses you're still stronger than if you were say level 10, so you do still have an easier time and more tools at your disposal, but the mechanics now actually give you something to do again and reward you for playing smartly. So not only do you get to have the pride of being high-level, it brings back the pride of being able to display that you know what you're doing.

 

So I actually like level sync, it just makes the whole galaxy "gamier" again. It rewards you for being a good player everywhere you go.

[zafrina]

I think having to pay attention to the mechanics again actually makes the game more fun, because you stop just blowing through everything on autopilot like your skill no longer matters, and it brings the game back into the gaming. It presents you with a challenge again to see if you can remember how to do the content or navigate it successfully. Which is a lot of the reason to play an MMO, I feel like.

 

Because of all your new abilities and bonuses you're still stronger than if you were say level 10, so you do still have an easier time and more tools at your disposal, but the mechanics now actually give you something to do again and reward you for playing smartly. So not only do you get to have the pride of being high-level, it brings back the pride of being able to display that you know what you're doing.

 

So I actually like level sync, it just makes the whole galaxy "gamier" again. It rewards you for being a good player everywhere you go.

 

Palidasus, I appreciate your thoughts on that and I agree with you that having to be smart instead of just blowing through things can be rewarding which is why I think that they could incorporate level sync in certain areas ie Heroic Areas, World Boss areas etc but I don't think that me having to fight random standard level mobs on Taris or Hoth or wherever, on my way to something else is helpful or enriching to my gamer experience.

 

There's probably a way for them to use it but not in a way that makes entire planets annoying haha.

[azudelphi]

Was expecting a logical argument, got an appeal to emotion / preference instead

[ArtaxDarkmane]

I've experienced it too and it's pointless. To use your own argument "And by gosh, it was so horrible being able to easily defeat my foes and barely take any form of damage" if that's the case (which it is), then why do it???

Level sync doesn't add anything of value to the game. Changes should add value or enrich the experience and level sync does not do that.

 

I love KOTFE; the story was enjoyable and engrossing and I like many of the other refinements, but level sync is useless and takes away from the hard work of players. The one interesting thing I saw was when I was in an OP group to take on world bosses and we could no longer ignore their mechanics because of level sync, hence my suggestion that if BW wants to make things challenging then fine, enable level sync in certain areas to make it interesting but not on every planet, everywhere.

 

There is no logical argument present in most of this entire thread. I would support an option to turn off level sync if you receive no experience, treasure drops, and can gather no crafting materials while you have it off. If all you want is an ego boost then I have no problem with it. I am opposed to anyone getting anything in this game for no work or risk.

 

The level sync does one thing really well, it levels the playing field, making it easier to tailor missions that are a challenge, but not impossible without knowing ever trick related to what you are doing. I hated the snobbery of WoW. "Have you watched the videos so you know how t play this instance? I kicked you because your gear score was lower than ____'s." I like playing in a game where I don't have to do research to have fun. I am not overly thrilled with level sync, but it has provided a lot of new opportunities that I had not originally considered. I consider it a net positive.

[zafrina]

The level sync does one thing really well, it levels the playing field, making it easier to tailor missions that are a challenge, but not impossible without knowing ever trick related to what you are doing. I hated the snobbery of WoW. "Have you watched the videos so you know how t play this instance? I kicked you because your gear score was lower than ____'s." I like playing in a game where I don't have to do research to have fun. I am not overly thrilled with level sync, but it has provided a lot of new opportunities that I had not originally considered. I consider it a net positive.

 

The snobbery that you're talking about (which is rampant and annoying) isn't going to change because of level sync and has nothing to do this. No matter what, players are still going to be on the fleet pugging for players who already know the fights and who have the achievements and the appropriate gear. That won't change (without BW doing something else drastic). Maybe you should give BW feedback about that.

 

And since apparently humor masks logic and people need things stated plainly for them: what is the point of having us level at all if they're going do level sync? If they want to even the field then the entire exercise of leveling is pointless and they should just have us unlock skills alone and have no level, but they didn't do that. We still have levels and a now a new level cap. Instead they downgrade you and bring you down to the level of whatever planet you're on. It makes leveling up moot.

If they want to make things challenging then why not have elite creatures or higher level bosses sync up to where you are when you're on planet? Then things would be challenging and all the hard work players have done would not be erased. It is illogical to erase all the work players have done to get their characters to where they are just to make the content challenging. Logically there are other ways to accomplish making the game interesting and challenging that could incorporate facets of level sync (pay attention to the earlier conversation) in different ways without it being permanent or throughout every planet, everywhere. I think level sync could be useful if they changed the mechanics of where and how it's activated and I'm not remotely the only person who thinks this.

 

Out of all the pro-level sync arguments, only one person actually made any good points and that was Palidasus. No one really laid out any well-founded reasons why level sync is good or at least more good than bad.

Edited October 28, 2015 by zafrina

[zafrina]

Was expecting a logical argument, got an appeal to emotion / preference instead

 

Check the previous post.

Edited October 28, 2015 by zafrina

[TUXs]

My only comment on this is - I'm not at all a fan of 24/7 combat on planets I've previously visited and liberated. The agro range is ridiculous and annoying. I don't care about the ttk mobs, it's the inability to avoid combat that drives me crazy.

[zafrina]

My only comment on this is - I'm not at all a fan of 24/7 combat on planets I've previously visited and liberated. The agro range is ridiculous and annoying. I don't care about the ttk mobs, it's the inability to avoid combat that drives me crazy.

 

TUXs that's part of what I'm talking about; the monotonous interruption that comes from having to fight every mob on a planet because now I'm the same level as them. It's tedious because yes, the agro range is annoying.

[azudelphi]

Check the previous post.

High level mobs on low level planets creates a grief-friendly environment.

Levels still provide active use abilities, utility points, base stat gains, and passive changes.

More players (regardless of level) creates a larger pool of players available to assist lower level players.

In practicality, the negatives of level-sync haven't been noticeable to myself or my guild mates. There are a few fights that need tuning maybe, but they are limited and could be fixed in 4.1.

 

My only comment on this is - I'm not at all a fan of 24/7 combat on planets I've previously visited and liberated. The agro range is ridiculous and annoying. I don't care about the ttk mobs, it's the inability to avoid combat that drives me crazy.

Aggro range reduction to "true" level as opposed to "sync" level is a good idea in my opinion.

[zafrina]

High level mobs on low level planets creates a grief-friendly environment.

Levels still provide active use abilities, utility points, base stat gains, and passive changes.

More players (regardless of level) creates a larger pool of players available to assist lower level players.

In practicality, the negatives of level-sync haven't been noticeable to myself or my guild mates. There are a few fights that need tuning maybe, but they are limited and could be fixed in 4.1.

 

 

Aggro range reduction to "true" level as opposed to "sync" level is a good idea in my opinion.

 

To clarify I'm not suggesting that there be high-level mobs that attack low-level players, but more of a 'instead of bringing me down, bring them up approach' in that if I a level 65 player engage a mob they could level up me. They do that already during Bounty Week so they know how.

 

And yes, I agree adjusting the aggro to your true level would be helpful and less annoying.

[TUXs]

Aggro range reduction to "true" level as opposed to "sync" level is a good idea in my opinion.

This would be an ideal solution imo! Keeps most players happy.

[ScarletBlaze]

There is a logical argument for keeping level sync and that is for people that want to help guild members that are lower leveled than you so you can help them without hurting their xp when killing mobs. Some of us actually do help guild members and friends that are lower level than us.

 

There are also guilds that enjoy grouping with the lower levels and running with them because they are guild members so completely nixing the level sync, no.

[TUXs]

There is a logical argument for keeping level sync and that is for people that want to help guild members that are lower leveled than you so you can help them without hurting their xp when killing mobs. Some of us actually do help guild members and friends that are lower level than us.

 

There are also guilds that enjoy grouping with the lower levels and running with them because they are guild members so completely nixing the level sync, no.

Absolutely this is a plus of the system...it's a great idea that has few negatives...the only "big" issue I have with it is what I mentioned above.

[Zharik]

Was expecting a logical argument, got an appeal to emotion / preference instead

 

quoted for truth

 

I keep hearing the same whine every time. "But now I'm UNDER 9000!?!?!?! All my precious POWER?!?!?"

[ThePocketFox]

I was one of those who wasn't pleased with a mandatory level sync at first, mostly because I assumed it would mean every mob on the planet would aggro me as I traveled to my destinations. But after playing for a few days and giving it a chance, I've noticed... well, basically no change at all. I'm still way more powerful than even elites, and not even champions have given me much trouble (part of that is in thanks to my companion, of course, but I digress). I still look cool because level sync doesn't suddenly make you appear like you're in starter gear. And, to be honest, as I'm questing around for my Alliance, I only really remember I'm synced when I glance down at my portrait. Even the aggro hasn't been bad. In fact, to my pleasant surprise, I've found level sync actually increases immersion for me... which I suspect is part of the point, since you're revisiting all these old planets; Bioware wants those revisits to mean something, as it were.

[ArtaxDarkmane]

My point exactly, and why I have no problem with level sync. Also, the only reason to want to remove it is for free looting and materials gathering. I have no problem with people having to compete on relatively level terms with those who are questing and trying to improve skills.

[TurtlesAWD]

I worked very hard to level up

 

If a game is making you work hard under the promise of having fun later it has arguably failed as a game already. Most RPGs that aren't MMOS do not require max level to be obtained before the player is allowed to have fun, including tabletop games like dungeons and dragons where max level is rare for an adventuring group to make it to, due to either character death or just the group moving on to something else.

 

Level is a part of the equation of character power but it isn't and should not be the be-all end-all goal of an RPG. The game itself needs to be fun behind that, rather than a carrot/horse simulator. Level sync is a step towards the game itself being fun to play.

[TurtlesAWD]

It's also worth noting that level sync has already been a mechanic in game - in pvp in tactical flashpoints.

 

Funny how you don't hear people complaining in these cases of level being normalized for the purpose of having fun.

[Yomitako]

I've also noticed little, to no difference when it comes to level sync. Aggro range is tightened a little bit, but these mobs aren't exactly knocking me off my speeders instantaneously either. I've re-routed my path a couple of times, but the extent of it has been maybe a 2-second detour of shooting the gap between mob packs.

 

If I had to place a thought as to why level sync became mandatory, is the possibility of adding more dynamic events into the game, where everyone can participate, help one another, etc. Bounties already sync to your level pre-4.0, and it remains that way now with a more globalized version of it. So this isn't exactly a new concept either. The difference now, is that if you're max level, searching for a bounty on say, Coruscant/Dromund Kaas, that lvl 15 player is also looking for the same bounty, the two of you can now team up and work towards taking the bounty down.

[Kilikaa]

I know there are many, many complaints about level sync so I'm hoping if BW sees enough of us talking about it and giving good reasons to change it, maybe they will. According to BW this was done based on feedback and personally I'd like to know exactly whose feedback they were listening to because it was awful.

 

It comes down to this: I worked very hard to level up 8 toons in 8 different classes to lvl 60 (now 65) and it makes absolutely no sense for BW to then take away all the hard work I put into those characters so that I can be like the noobs on whatever planet I'm on. I earned my levels and it's like being punished for achieving something.

 

If I want to go back to Hoth and get some planetary achievements and blow through elite wampas on my way to a datacron then I should be able to do that. If I want to ride through Dromund Kaas looking awesome because I'm lvl 65 as I pass by some newbie lvl 15's who think I'm cool and want to be like me when they grow up, I should be able to do that.

 

If they want to make things challenging for some reason then put world bosses in a special area where level sync turns on...I don't know (I'm not saying that's the answer)...I just know that this is seriously unfair and it takes the enjoyment out of going back to other planets for me.

 

I see no logical argument here. All I see is a whine post about not being able to lolstomp mobs with a single hit. Level synching is fine. Older planets are fun again. Not to mention that with all your abilities a level 65 can still stomp through mobs fairly easy. Nothing has been taken away from you.

 

You have two choices...

1) quit the game.

20 Suck it up, cupcake, and play the game.