Lower tactical groups to 3.

[Khevar]

Says most players including hardcore raiders.

"Most players"

 

Sure, sparky. Whatever you say.

Perhaps you are, I am as well but only to a point. Wiping 10 times to tarval 5's last boss with 4 different group compositions is too much for me though.

This surprises me. Quite a bit actually.

 

The derp sentinel group I was with last night had more troubles with trash than they did on the General.

 

Not sure what would have been different on your fight than mine. Granted, it's entirely possible that the fight could have flat-out bugged for you. It's not like BW is known for bug-free content.

You like doing tacticals because of the challenge, then go do HMFP's.

I do both. And SM ops. And HM ops (not as much now that my guild fell apart from lack of new ops content).

Most groups of people, no matter what level they are, where this is both their first mmo and first toon, cannot clear most tactical fp's as they are now and that is why I am complaining about them.

I've been hearing this for over 3 years now, about every type of end-game content.

 

I personally don't mind dealing with newbies, greenhorns and the like. Unless they're jerks or rude, I actually tend to enjoy it. Some of the more rewarding experiences I've had in a pug were with a new players, who got better by the end and thanked the group.

 

And who knows? Some of those people may go on to run HM FPs and do better than they would have otherwise.

[Sinapus]

I don't believe that for a minute -- unless you can provide some combat logs to back up your statement.

 

Perhaps it only seems that way if you're used to running flashpoints with a healer.

 

I've done several tac runs so far. Either a 4 dps group or a 3 dps/ 1 tank group in each case. Mismash of level from low to high. The only times I've run into troubles were if the group:

 

1. Didn't rest between pulls.

2. Pulled multiple groups.

3. Didn't use CC.

 

If you're having troubles in a tactical FP, but your group isn't playing smart -- then don't blame the content.

 

So essentially the wackiness that ensued during Kuat Drive Yard runs pre-4.0?

 

(Haven't tried any flashpoints in 4.0, and have been reluctant to do so with all these horror stories. I may just decline groups that don't have a class capable of tanking and healing in it.)

[Katahn]

So essentially the wackiness that ensued during Kuat Drive Yard runs pre-4.0?

 

(Haven't tried any flashpoints in 4.0, and have been reluctant to do so with all these horror stories. I may just decline groups that don't have a class capable of tanking and healing in it.)

 

That's starting to feel like a wise rule to follow. Groups with a tank/healer +2x dps do the best. Multiple tanks/healers is fine, so long as there's at least one of each. Every flashpoint I've run without both (minus the original TFPs) has been, at best, very difficult. Every time we've had someone drop I have pulled out a companion for healing (I play tanks) and then we do just fine.

[Sinapus]

That's starting to feel like a wise rule to follow. Groups with a tank/healer +2x dps do the best. Multiple tanks/healers is fine, so long as there's at least one of each. Every flashpoint I've run without both (minus the original TFPs) has been, at best, very difficult. Every time we've had someone drop I have pulled out a companion for healing (I play tanks) and then we do just fine.

 

Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

 

Especially since I think I'm pretty much a "casual" player. I don't play flashpoints very often and I think I've played exactly 3 hardmode flashpoints, all on my scoundrel. 2 were for the HK parts (couldn't use groupfinder for storymode False Emperor due to being higher level and I really am bad at soloing this sort of thing) and I got through them, but I really don't get into it very much. OTOH, when I do get into a group I try to play the role I'm assigned, even if I don't have my rotation perfect or my gear to the "ideal" spec that all the really good players insist is needed.

 

So it's possible that the tacticals now are still setup for casual players, just not for... inept ones?

[mephistosaurus]

I have been grouping with guildy's when they do the tac weekly, then vote kick me or other guildy so 3 of us can break out a companion. We just take turns being the kicked player so we can have comanion heal or tank mobs. . It saves so much on repair bills when you get 3 lowbie players. Ripping agro on a 65 sucks. My sorc mage tanks, and my operative heal tanks (no clever name yet)

[Griad]

Says most players including hardcore raiders.

 

 

 

Perhaps you are, I am as well but only to a point. Wiping 10 times to tarval 5's last boss with 4 different group compositions is too much for me though.

 

You like doing tacticals because of the challenge, then go do HMFP's. Most groups of people, no matter what level they are, where this is both their first mmo and first toon, cannot clear most tactical fp's as they are now and that is why I am complaining about them.

 

Not true i love the way they are tuned now and i have still not done a FP that i didnt finish and why should they be quick and easy this is where players should learn how to use stuff not in 8 man raids or hardmode, might aswell start them on the path of learning how mechanics work in tacticals

[Jianka]

I don't like KDY "free prisoners" scenario as prisoners break your companion.

Otherwise, 3+companion = best possible thing. Fortunately, people drop group without healer from the start so don't even need to kick.

Not true i love the way they are tuned now and i have still not done a FP that i didnt finish and why should they be quick and easy this is where players should learn how to use stuff not in 8 man raids or hardmode, might aswell start them on the path of learning how mechanics work in tacticals

You learn nothing from tactical, except for location of nearest med droid. In fact, HM's are easier and more educational.

 

When there are 4 DD's they can only learn to wipe. And if you have healer and tank it is no longer tactical, but story mode.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Jianka
reply

[ShawDou]

So let me get this straight.

 

The ONE run where I had a truly horrible group of Leeroy Jenkins sentinels, who were dramatizing every bad stereotype of players of that class, did everything poorly, and acted like 12-year-olds on a sugar high -- you're saying THAT run should have been quick and easy?

 

/shudder

 

What the heck is wrong with a tactical flashpoint requiring the faintest bit of skill?

 

Ok, tell me when you finish Blood Hunt with random 4 lvl DPS group

 

Wrong with them is, that some higher level flash-points are written in mind that you already have bunch of dps defense and utility skills. So when yo star them as low level player with nothing to counter boss mechanics it will only make you frustrated.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ShawDou

[Torvai]

When there are 4 DD's they can only learn to wipe. And if you have healer and tank it is no longer tactical, but story mode.

Cleared false emperor this weekened with 4 level 15 base classes, one of each. So no heals, no taunts, next to no dcd's, no real cc, only 2 8 sec mezz and 3 hard stuns. Sure we wiped here and there, but we finished it in ~ 1 hour.

[Jianka]

Cleared false emperor this weekened with 4 level 15 base classes, one of each. So no heals, no taunts, next to no dcd's, no real cc, only 2 8 sec mezz and 3 hard stuns. Sure we wiped here and there, but we finished it in ~ 1 hour.

And what exactly have you learned?

To use your abilities? "level 15 base classes" have abilities?

You learned aggro management? Without tank?

Trinity? With 4 DD's?

You learned how to use cooldowns? Oh, wait, "level 15 base classes".

 

You might have practiced boss tactics, but other than that - how to wipe here and there for ~ 1 hour.

I'll give you hint - you can do HM False Emperor in ~ 20 minutes. If tactical take more, than there is a bad tuning, no way around it.

 

Or you trying to tell us, that it is normal and perfectly balanced for tactical to take more time and effort than Hard mode?

[Torvai]

And what exactly have you learned?

To use your abilities? "level 15 base classes" have abilities?

You learned aggro management? Without tank?

Trinity? With 4 DD's?

You learned how to use cooldowns? Oh, wait, "level 15 base classes".

 

You might have practiced boss tactics, but other than that - how to wipe here and there for ~ 1 hour.

I'll give you hint - you can do HM False Emperor in ~ 20 minutes. If tactical take more, than there is a bad tuning, no way around it.

 

Or you trying to tell us, that it is normal and perfectly balanced for tactical to take more time and effort than Hard mode?

 

I'm saying they're doable. And not that they're impossible, like some folks around here try to imply

 

Look, I'm not saying they're not overtuned, considering the fact that all sorts of players get grouped together, with both a vast skill and character level difference. But they're not as bad as most people here claim they are.

But don't worry though. The nerf will come sooner or later. It always does, cause Bioware doesn't want to loose paying customers

Edited November 2, 2015 by Torvai

[ShawDou]

I'm saying they're doable. And not that they're impossible, like some folks around here try to imply

 

If you want go into exact: You are saing that one of the easier tactical FP is doable with group of organized low level players. (btw never mentioned what type of group you did it, i suppose 1T 2D 1H).

 

I say all the time that some of them are good and some need tuning down, because they are too hard for non organized group of pugs which is why group finder exist, to group you with people you dont know.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ShawDou

[Torvai]

If you want go into exact: You are saing that one of the easier tactical FP is doable with group of organized low level players. (btw never mentioned what type of group you did it, i suppose 1T 2D 1H).

I said we were base classes. Meaning no advanced classes, so no trinity and no heals or taunts.

I say all the time that some of them are good and some need tuning down, because they are too hard for non organized group of pugs.

Will do BH today or tomorrow. But it won't shut up the nay sayers:rolleyes:

Edited November 2, 2015 by Torvai

[Alphasgimaone]

The issue isn't that there impossible, some aren't even all the difficult. The issue is they're extremely inefficient and exist beyond their intended scope and purpose.

[Khevar]

Ok, tell me when you finish Blood Hunt with random 4 lvl DPS group

Yeah, I haven't had to do that one as a tactical yet -- so no opinion one way or the other.

 

I did end up in a HM Blood Hunt however, but it failed due to low dps output.

 

The two adds come in every 40 seconds, and have around 92k hp. I was doing about 5000 dps according to starparse, but we wiped with 4 adds out. Napkin math suggests the other dps was probably doing around 1500 for that to occur.

 

/sigh

[KendraP]

I did end up in a HM Blood Hunt however, but it failed due to low dps output.

 

Yeah I know the feeling I had similar problems on HM blood hunt last night. The group just decided to leave and queue for a different one. We got directive 7 and had no problems.