Why I Think KotFE Ruined SWTOR

[Swissbob]

I love the fact that the game is easier and I can see the story without having to go what I went through (grinding) the first time I played it when it was first released. Sorry but there are other players out there, more casual that do not care about perfect numbers in armors and things like that. It would have been so much better if this game had been a single player game and not an MMO.

 

Yes. And you're part of the expansion's target audience I suppose.

 

Unfortunately, I am not in that audience, and the game, rather then appealing to you and me (through more conventional difficulty options), mostly excluded me. And that's why I say that the game is "ruined" for me.

 

So yeah, of course there will be people who disagree with me, and who love the new expansion, like you. And I'm happy for them/you. Its just too bad that others were left in the dust, so to speak.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Swissbob

[Dashtardly]

Knights of the Fallen Empire is the best thing that has ever happened to this torturous game people call an MMO. If there is one thing that holds the excellent class stories and well-written characters back is the MMO aspect. If this game will shut down any time soon, at least they did something good, and hopefully they'll focus all their efforts into making things Bioware are known for.

 

Well I am the polar opposite of your opinion (and I will admit that I also really enjoyed the story aspects of KoFTE, I did not and still don't enjoy a number of the other changes).

 

I have played through all 8 class stories (4 imperial/4 republic) and some more than once (Sith Warrior). Yes, it was a grind but it was still enjoyable because of story and play style differences. I have been subscribed (i.e., paying for the on-going game development and support) the entire time since launch.

 

With KoFTE - you have one story not eight. How many times will YOU play that story you LOVE over again? Without variation, most people are likely to get bored with it and stop playing. If they were subscribed then BW made a huge mistake which will show up in its revenue stream. If you were not subscribed (and don't subscribe after playing KoFTE) your coming or going doesn't really affect their bottom line and again they made a mistake since the content wasn't sufficient to hook you to stay.

[branmakmuffin]

Yes. And you're part of the expansion's target audience I suppose.

 

Unfortunately, I am not in that audience, and the game, rather then appealing to you and me (through more conventional difficulty options), mostly excluded me

So why are you still here trolling the forums?

[Unperson]

So why are you still here trolling the forums?

 

Uh, because it's his thread and somebody replied to it?

 

Why are you still trolling here?

[Icestar]

I am still having fun, the KotFE has brought a good time to me. Edited January 19, 2016 by Icestar

[well]

I am still having fun, the KotFE has brought a good time to me.

 

Uh oh! No cookies for you:mad: I love how these titles that pop out it seems weekly are so dramatic. It is like a soap opera. Crisis Hits Swtor on upcoming episode of As The Galaxy Turns:eek:

[branmakmuffin]

Uh, because it's his thread and somebody replied to it?

 

Why are you still trolling here?

To find out why he is still here trolling. I am no closer to an answer. Clearly, if he does not like the game, he should move on to another game.

[Swissbob]

To find out why he is still here trolling. I am no closer to an answer. Clearly, if he does not like the game, he should move on to another game.

 

You're in luck. You need look no further then the first post of the thread. I'll quote some of it below, but since I know you're one of the TL;DR types, here's why: I actually like the game. And while I no longer have much fun in its current state, I'm holding out hope it will improve, and I will continue to advocate for changes that can bring about this improvement in my eyes.

I’ve simply invested too much time, money, and most importantly, valuable emotional attachment to not only SWTOR, but KOTOR and the Old Republic Era of Star Wars as a whole to give up now. I simply, for my own sense of personal closure, need to see where the story is going. So, I will keep coming back, likely until SWTOR’s funding gets cut and its servers get shut down for good. After years of playing, hundreds of dollars spent, and countless fond memories of stock striking a Sith Lord I just pulled out of the air, hunting down a Jedi through the snows of Hoth, or flirting with every girl in sight with my dashing Smuggler, SWTOR’s hooks still reside in me. So, I’m along for the ride. For better or worse, I’ll be here for the years to come.

 

Oh wait, no..... none of that is right. The real answer is I'm just a super villain troll, who spends hours of his time trolling people with elaborate threads on the SWTOR forums.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Swissbob

[JMCA]

This kind of older generation BS is annoying.

 

WAHHHHHH JEDI AND SITH AREN'T THE STRONGEST FORCE USERS RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAH

 

This is the first time SWTOR hasn't been doing fan service and introduced something original to Star Wars in a long time.

 

This is a great step forward.

 

Get over it.

[durasteel]

To respond to the OP (I haven't read many of the replies):

 

I almost agree with you. I have a strong dislike for the "bigger, badder, more epic" adversary thing, although Zakuul is not remotely the worst offender (how big will the next death star be?) I do have a few points with which to talk you down off your ledge, however.

 

As you note at the end of your post, the KotFE story isn't over yet. When Vitiate did his thing on Ziost, it gave him some kind of revelation. We don't know what that is yet. The strength of the new empire is its drone fleet, which has at least two weaknesses that we've seen so far, and probably has more secrets surrounding its origin and ultimate purpose. The tech on Zakuul is not even in the same league with the Gree's, so that's not an insurmountable hurdle.

 

It might seem that your class story is rendered inconsequential because you're looking at all of the class stories at once. If you look only at the smuggler's story, for example, then the Republic still exists at the beginning of KotFE because you saved it from nefarious imperial plots and whatnot.

 

With regard to the difficulty, I don't know what to tell you. Having gone through the expansion with several characters, the only kolto station I've ever used was by accident, because it was right next to the panel to lower the force field on Korriban and I clicked on the wrong glowing box. The game's really easy now, but... the story's pretty good so far, and the characters (Lana especially) are superb. It's becoming more like an interactive movie in many respects, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you try, you can get your character killed, so the possibility of failure still has some psychological potency, even if it is not a practical risk.

 

I think the most important thing to me is this: I want to see what happens next. I am actually, sincerely curious about how the story of KotFE will play out, and that's going to keep my subscription active this year. I have a bunch of theories, and I want to see if they're right. I want to re-unite with my companions... well, most of them... and see what they're doing and who they became over the past 5 years. I want to see Arik's tantrum when he finds out my trooper is now Lana's cuddle bunny. Dude, she searched for me for 5 years, and you just sat in a trench with Forex writing letters and feeling sorry for yourself.. I digress.

 

For me, the expansion is fun. I hope it remains so.

[Tpar]

I feel roped in now.....Im curious as to how the story turns out but unfortunately I just feel like im doing dailies no real challenge just kind of doing it to do it.

 

and the predictability and un-originality of the story line was pretty sad. (off the top of my head I clearly remember a "your are only hope" quote ....like c'mon )

 

Oh and one small thing while i greatly appreciate being able to use HK-51 and Treek again im wondering HOW idk if I missed something in the plot but to me it just seems odd the after 5 years they just randomly show up at the beginning of chapter 9 in a cantina

Edited January 20, 2016 by Tpar

[branmakmuffin]

You're in luck. You need look no further then the first post of the thread. I'll quote some of it below, but since I know you're one of the TL;DR types, here's why:I actually like the game

Then play the game you supposedly like so much rather than complaining about how awful it is.

 

Or keep complaining. Whatever works for you.

Edited January 20, 2016 by branmakmuffin

[Swissbob]

This kind of older generation BS is annoying.

 

WAHHHHHH JEDI AND SITH AREN'T THE STRONGEST FORCE USERS RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAH

 

This is the first time SWTOR hasn't been doing fan service and introduced something original to Star Wars in a long time.

 

This is a great step forward.

 

Get over it.

 

Yeah, why should a game set in the Star Wars universe follow the most integral part of Star Wars lore?

 

This is kind of like if the LotR Rings of Power suddenly were made irrelevant by the new and improved Necklaces of Power forged by some new godly Wizard who just seemingly randomly arrived on the shores of Middle Earth.

 

Or if the Lannisters, Starks, Targaryns, Boltons, and White Walkers were suddenly conquered by an Army of Valkaeyrie that just arrived on the order of some all powerful God who no one had ever heard about before.

 

Anyway, I could go on, but yeah. It's okay to do "new" stuff within a license, but if you take the single most important conflict in the entire lore between the two most important forces in the galaxy (The Light Side/Jedi/Republic vs. The Dark Side/Sith/Empire) which takes center stage in almost every major Star Wars story, and make it suddenly irrelevant.... well, don't be surprised if some of the people who are here almost specifically for the Star Wars license aren't so happy.

 

And calling the desire to stay true to the Star Wars lore "older generation BS", with all caps "waaahs" and saying "get over it" doesn't really present much an argument, or move the discussion along at all.

[well]

This kind of older generation BS is annoying.

 

WAHHHHHH JEDI AND SITH AREN'T THE STRONGEST FORCE USERS RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAH

 

This is the first time SWTOR hasn't been doing fan service and introduced something original to Star Wars in a long time.

 

This is a great step forward.

 

Get over it.

 

Isn't it time for your nap? Let me put you on a time out. Not my day to read post from pouting little kids who have filled their pampers. I have no problem with KOTFE just curtain climbers they escape their playpen.

[JMCA]

Yeah, why should a game set in the Star Wars universe follow the most integral part of Star Wars lore?

 

This is kind of like if the LotR Rings of Power suddenly were made irrelevant by the new and improved Necklaces of Power forged by some new godly Wizard who just seemingly randomly arrived on the shores of Middle Earth.

 

Or if the Lannisters, Starks, Targaryns, Boltons, and White Walkers were suddenly conquered by an Army of Valkaeyrie that just arrived on the order of some all powerful God who no one had ever heard about before.

 

Anyway, I could go on, but yeah. It's okay to do "new" stuff within a license, but if you take the single most important conflict in the entire lore between the two most important forces in the galaxy (The Light Side/Jedi/Republic vs. The Dark Side/Sith/Empire) which takes center stage in almost every major Star Wars story, and make it suddenly irrelevant.... well, don't be surprised if some of the people who are here almost specifically for the Star Wars license aren't so happy.

 

And calling the desire to stay true to the Star Wars lore "older generation BS", with all caps "waaahs" and saying "get over it" doesn't really present much an argument, or move the discussion along at all.

 

People like you have no imagination whatsoever.

 

Just watch. With Alexander Freed, Drew Karpyshyn, etc. back as writers, Zakuul is going to be as memorable as Revan once they get the story rolling.

 

Doesn't it make Jedi and Sith more interesting in the future to know that they both overcame an empire that was stronger than both of them until they learned what it takes to earn back their place?

 

Nobody likes Mary Sues. Well except you I guess.

[gnoams]

I've played up to reaching the planet odessen, and agree with a lot of this thread. My biggest problem with it is that each class had a personality as written by the bioware team. Once you hit kotfe, all their different personalities get wiped. You still get your original voice actor, but they are reading the same lines now regardless if you are a smuggler, sith or w/e. I'm fine with playing along the rails of the story bioware felt like telling, I never had any meaningful choices in the original content and wasn't expecting any in this either. But the story being told in kotfe is written for "the outlander," and there is not even cosmetic changes to flavor responses slightly different to make sense for the different characters, they all read from the same script. I started playing through the story a second time, and quickly resorted to spamming the spacebar to skip everything because it was exactly the same.

Even so, I was enjoying the story (the first play through) up until I had to fight the main villain... and he's a total pushover, doesn't barely touch me and then wins via cut scene (not just wins, but thrashes me so hard it never should have been a contest in the first place). It just felt so lame. It might have been cool if the whole fight was just a cut scene, but when my smuggler wipes the floor with him in the gameplay only to trigger a cut scene where the opposite happens, it totally killed the suspense of disbelief and just made me roll my eyes. Then to be followed up with a section where my character is no longer voiced and so loses the last vestiges of her personality, and I'm feeling very bummed about the future of this game.

[Swissbob]

People like you have no imagination whatsoever.

 

Just watch. With Alexander Freed, Drew Karpyshyn, etc. back as writers, Zakuul is going to be as memorable as Revan once they get the story rolling.

 

Doesn't it make Jedi and Sith more interesting in the future to know that they both overcame an empire that was stronger than both of them until they learned what it takes to earn back their place?

 

Nobody likes Mary Sues. Well except you I guess.

 

Wait, did you just call the entirety of the Republic, the Sith Order, the Empire, the Jedi Order, and the Light and Dark Side of the force a "Mary Sue"?

 

And as for your question, no, by making the Jedi and Sith and the Light Side and Dark Side irrelevant and seem like total pushovers.... no, that doesn't make them more interesting.

 

What's interesting about them is that they are the two most powerful forces in the galaxy, fighting for the fate of trillions.... and now they are shown to be nearly totally powerless compared to the "Zakuul Side" or whatever its name is. If the "Zakuul Side" is so strong, where is it in the rest of the entirety of Star Wars lore? If there is another side of the Force that can topple both the Dark Side and Light Side, why doesn't it come up ever again?

 

Imagination is one thing, totally ignoring the core aspects of the mythos your story takes place in is another.

[IanArgent]

I dunno - having just run my second char through KotFE; by the end of Ch 9, you're putting together an Alliance of Rebels to fight an Evil Empire. If there aren't that many Force users in the Eternal Empire, well, there weren't that many force users in the Galactic Empire, either.

 

Dropping the clash of Jedi vs Sith empires is leaving the baggage of KOTOR behind, but they're not getting off the reservation of the overall SW universe, both Legends and movies. I always thought it was a little goofy, anyway, for the SWTOR-era Sith Empire to use the iconography and ship designs of the Galactic Empire from 3000 years or so later, when that Galactic Empire was the inheritor of the SWTOR-era Republic.

[JMCA]

They haven't made it irrelevant.

 

They've laid down a gauntlet to the entire Light / Dark paradigm and said:

 

"Prove your ways are strong enough."

 

It's hard to imagine someone more close-minded about Star Wars and what it could be.

 

You'd have every single expansion or story arc read explicitly from a set of "rules" that limit any scope or creativity.

 

Why can't BW reach further? Why can't Zakuul be an almost insurmountable opponent?

 

Why can't there be a morally relativistic, grey area, civilization that sees the Force in a more practical way?

 

You'd appreciate the story more if you went into it with an open mind instead of expecting it to conform to your "rules."

 

@Ian

 

Yes, that's the right word. Baggage. Fan service is baggage and what they're doing is evolving Star Wars with KotFE. This period could become a lot bigger than just "legends" if they do it right.

Edited January 20, 2016 by JMCA

[Swissbob]

They haven't made it irrelevant.

 

They've laid down a gauntlet to the entire Light / Dark paradigm and said:

 

"Prove your ways are strong enough."

 

It's hard to imagine someone more close-minded about Star Wars and what it could be.

 

You'd have every single expansion or story arc read explicitly from a set of "rules" that limit any scope or creativity.

 

Why can't BW reach further? Why can't Zakuul be an almost insurmountable opponent?

 

Why can't there be a morally relativistic, grey area, civilization that sees the Force in a more practical way?

 

You'd appreciate the story more if you went into it with an open mind instead of expecting it to conform to your "rules."

 

@Ian

 

Yes, that's the right word. Baggage. Fan service is baggage and what they're doing is evolving Star Wars with KotFE. This period could become a lot bigger than just "legends" if they do it right.

 

 

Yes, my severe, close minded, creativity limiting 'rules' of "Don't break the most integral part of Star Wars lore."

 

I'm not reading Lord of the Rings to learn about the Necklaces of Power, I'm not reading/watching ASoIF/Game of Thrones to see a random Army of Valkyrie slaughter everyone, and I'm not playing a Star Wars game to see a third side of the force be invented and then go on to dominate the Light and Dark Side.

 

And every single Star Wars story doesn't necessarily have to be the same old Light vs. Dark conflict every single time. I'd be fine with a story that offers a new take, explores further, or even challenges, albeit in a more subtle way, the Light Side vs. Dark Side paradigm, (something like KOTOR 2, for instance) or even has nothing much to do with it.... But it can't totally contradict that conflict/paradigm. It can't be something that essentially erases it and makes it seem pointless.

 

You say it doesn't make the paradigm irrelevant. Well, for one, that dichotomy no longer exists. Now there is a new side of the Force, neither Light or Dark. What now is the point of the Light Side and the Dark Side of the force if you can become even more powerful without either? All of Darth Sidious' and Yoda's musings on the force are now disproven. Sorry Yoda, but there is something more powerful then the Light Side. The Zakuul side.

 

And by the way, maybe I did go into it with an open mind, and didn't like it anyway. And now the Dark Side and the Light Sides of the force are "fan service"? Fan service, baggage..... a Mary Sue (even though it isn't even a character).... any other terms you'd like to throw on it?

[JMCA]

It presents a premise that the religious cults of the Jedi and Sith are the only ones left standing, not that they ever were the strongest.

 

I find this period to be some good "dirty little secret" period, where Jedi and Sith are proven to be incompetent in their ways alone, but have to work together to take down a big bad superpower that manages to show them, through adversity, what it really takes to maintain control of how the Force is used in a galaxy.

 

It also presents an opportunity for enemies to become allies, and perhaps bonds being formed between them, or even an entire historical period in Star Wars where Jedi and Sith were just history lessons of a single Force Order which transcended both.

 

Cain and Abel are a story of brothers breaking family bonds that has endured over millennia - what if that's possible in Star Wars too?

 

The galaxy could evolve into something that the re-separation of Jedi and Sith would be tragic rather than a triumph, which would add more depth to Star Wars than the permanent medieval stasis of Light and Dark.

 

What if the Eternal Empire, upon its defeat, ushers in an era tantamount to the Atlantis Myth on Earth - paradise galaxy wide, Light and Dark coexisting, strengthening one another?

 

What if the Force is mastered in this period to a degree that not even the Infinite Empire could?

 

That...

 

is what is possible when you don't just pander to the base.

Edited January 21, 2016 by JMCA

[EliteSeraph]

The fact that each character reads the same lines is far more of a blow to the enjoyment of the story than the abandoning of the classic light vs dark themes. I stead of having that feeling of individual investment and unique approach that your character takes, it's all the same.

 

That lessens the game in my opinion.

 

As to where the story goes from here, that's a tough one. because Disney is in the picture, it could seriously cause issues. If they're on board with the game, the story might have to bend to their will. If Disney isn't involved, BW can do almost whatever they want since it isn't canon anyway, as long as they avoid copyright issues.

 

Either way it will be interesting to see where they finish this Zakuul stuff. I've always been a fan of stories where people who don't like each other are forced to work together for survival.

[Feeblezak]

The ongoing mass exodus will be the death knell for the game. I expect a 2017-2018 shutdown.

[JennyFlynn]

I have to say, I actually agree with a lot of this. I've leveled 4 different classes now from 0 to 65 throughout all the content and something just feels.. not quite the same.

 

Gonna put some of my thoughts in the spoiler box just in case.

 

 

I don't think all our "work" as a hero has been undone in the blink of an eye. To us, it's the blink of an eye yes but to everyone else it's developed over a span of 5 years. 5 years we've spent in carbonite. To me, if anything, the helpless state of both the Empire and Republic at the moment further proves how valuable and needed we as the hero are. When it all starts, the only thing really going on is our discovery of Valkorion's empire and the twins having attacked both sides but there's no Eternal Empire rule yet. There's no room for that until we've been taken out of the equation so in that sense, we're still the same powerful hero we've always been. Just not as "unique" as before which is my biggest gripe at the moment. It doesn't matter what class you play, the chapters are the same. Your companions are the same. Sure there's different choices but none of it fully matters. Regardless of your class, your companions react the same and do the same thing and everyone's running around with a Lana or Theron now which is fine in a way since they're extremely popular characters but I feel that otherwise, BW has missed the mark when it comes to individual identity of the classes you play. Perhaps it'll come in future chapters but I fear it won't since that aspect was sorta already fading out the moment you started Hutt Cartel. Your companions kinda stopped caring about who you were or what you did, whether you cheated on them or not, no longer cared to talk to you in private and tell you about their life or their own adventures. And now half of them are recovered, the rest are in limbo and whether you reunite with them or not, they still pretty much don't give a flip. For instance, I love playing a Smuggler. I like their sassy attitude, the way they behave with words and body language, their conversation options and the likes but once you hit the KotFE chapters especially, you can't tell the difference between playing a pure light Jedi or a Smuggler with an attitude, really. I miss that most of all.

 

[Shades-Of-Red]

Personally I love the changes KOTFE brought to the game, but then again, I didn't really play any of the previously released content until recently. When I found out Bioware planned on going in the direction of the great story telling that I loved about KOTOR and KOTOR 2, I had the urge to give the game a try again (my third time), well that and I had just seen the new movie. Any ways, I tried two previous times to play the game and nothing could draw me into it, it was just another MMO, but with a Star Wars title. Given Bioware was behind it, I had originally hoped the game would be similar to the KOTOR series, but just in MMO form. Nope, didn't feel anywhere close, or so I thought. Putting the rest of my post in the spoiler box so I don't ruin anything for potential new players.

 

 

When I first gave the game another try, of course I used my level 60 token, because who wants to grind levels? I really didn't so I made a level 60 sith assassin, was fun, went through all 9 chapters and I loved the direction they went, but again I had no idea of previous content because I never played it. So I rolled a level 60 sith jugg and did the same exact thing, played the 9 chapters and did end game content to build my alliance. After doing this for two weeks, I finally said screw it, and deleted my 65 sith jugg, and started at level 1. Something must've changed whether it be the leveling, my urge to just play a Star Wars game, or maybe I just finally gave a fair chance, but I LOVED the sith warrior story, well all but the end where you face off with Darth Baras, I felt unsatisfied with how I ended him. I felt he deserved worse than he got, but overall the story was great, the interaction with the companions was enjoyable as well, but I did want to kill Quinn after he betrayed me. Onward, I played through the Hutt Cartel and SoR expansions, and though they were fairly enjoyable they definitely did lack one thing that made the class stories fun: the companion interaction. It just stopped, like seriously? I stopped there and rerolled my sith jugg into a sith marauder, because I always liked the idea of using two lightsabers. So now I'm back at the end, farming heroics to get those supply crates to increase my influence with everyone yada yada.

 

Now onto a real review of KOTFE now that I've played all the content, and actually have a clue of what people are talking about. Personally I still like the direction they took with the game. You've spent all of the game being the man (or woman), the one who has pretty much done it all, I mean after all isn't that why Lana worked so hard to break you out? For the first time though you're pretty much powerless and need to regroup in order to even have the slightest chance at defeating an enemy that is stronger than you. It's great!

 

I see people referring to how their character doesn't feel the same, and I can understand that, but maybe look at it this way? You're in a completely different world now, and though your reputation remains with you, things have changed. You're an outcast. You're part of neither faction, because neither really exists anymore, just remnants of what they used to be, but that doesn't mean they're completely gone, because once the Eternal Empire is defeated, I'm assuming the two factions will rebuild, and hopefully BIoware will make good use of that in future content. The companion interaction has improved from the lackluster effort that was put into the previous two expansions. Sadly, everyone pretty much has all the same interactions with the new companions though you do have the option of who likes you and who doesn't. I mean Koth hates me, because I do things differently than he would. I'm no savage, but when you're weak and need to get the **** outta dodge, stopping to save lives just doesn't seem to be on the top of the list of things to do at the moment for a Sith, but then I turned around and helped those soldiers in the endless swamp that HK had found, because they could be potential allies. All in all, I like what they did with the new expansion and look forward to seeing what comes with the new chapters. I just hope our past companions play a bigger role than just helping in the alliance, because if they go back to being the mindless drones they were after the class stories, I'll be very disappointed.