Billupsat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 You can keep mangling the language all you want, but nothing is forced. Google "Forced definition" and you'll see this: I've highlighted the relevant parts. There is nothing "forced" in this at all. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. It's VOLUNTARY. Nothing will happen to you if you don't get this companion. So you can keep saying 'forced' like it has some meaning, but the very essence of your argument, "that you are forced" to PvP is factually incorrect. You have an OPTION to PvP to get a REWARD you want. If you choose not to do it, no skin off anyone's nose. I could kiss you... I won't because I don't trust my internet connection, but thank you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) This guy gets it. Thanks. I will amend that if the PVP unlocked companions do provide impact on the KotFE storyline down the road I will have mixed feelings on this from a design standpoint and have to reassess where I stand. As it currently stands, the companions seem to serve only a cosmetic role... and as long as that is the case, I stand by my statement. Edit: I am still accepting of allowing companion unlocks via some legacy method (after having completed the mission once on a character) on alts via credits as an alternative to the mission. Much like HK. Edited October 26, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The companions, for the classes that never had them, are effectively just cosmetic unlocks. Cosmetics can be locked behind whatever content the devs so choose since they don't have an immediate impact on gameplay. Therefore, there is no "forcing" to do it. If warzones were required to advance from Chapter VIII to Chapter IX, I'd agree 100% that they shouldn't require that. But in this case, you are unlocking a skin; nothing more. Companions aren't gear. They aren't required for anything more than being a completionist... That isn't entirely true.. What companion is unlocked after M1-4X?? It was my understanding they are setup in a tier.. You can't move on to the next tier until you have an outcome with the previous companion.. Being cosmetic or not is irrelevant.. And it is forcing regardless.. I am being told to play PVP against my will in order to unlock this companion.. That is simply wrong.. Again cosmetic or not and you have no right to decide why someone does or does not want unlock him or play PVP.. Reasons are irrelevant.. You are just attempting to justify your view and there is no justification for this.. Bioware is completely wrong for forcing us to do 20 ware zones to unlock M1-4X.. There is no argument here and there is no other point of view.. We are being force to do PVP to obtain a PVE objective.. Like I said, it would be like them moving all the ranked PVP gear into the HM Ops.. Then you would be forced to do PVE to gain a PVP objective.. And that would be just as wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thanks. I will amend that if the PVP unlocked companions do provide impact on the KotFE storyline down the road I will have mixed feelings on this from a design standpoint and have to reassess where I stand. As it currently stands, the companions seem to serve only a cosmetic role... and as long as that is the case, I stand by my statement. Edit: I am still accepting of allowing companion unlocks via some legacy method (after having completed the mission once on a character) on alts via credits as an alternative to the mission. Much like HK. I would agree with that as well. Which is why I also think that the developers would do well to make any PvP companions not be essential to the on-going story. That doesn't appear difficult since they have created a great many new companions specifically for this content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingmar Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't really mind the requirement but I wish GSF missions would also count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 That isn't entirely true.. What companion is unlocked after M1-4X?? It was my understanding they are setup in a tier.. You can't move on to the next tier until you have an outcome with the previous companion.. Being cosmetic or not is irrelevant.. And it is forcing regardless.. I am being told to play PVP against my will in order to unlock this companion.. That is simply wrong.. Again cosmetic or not and you have no right to decide why someone does or does not want unlock him or play PVP.. Reasons are irrelevant.. You are just attempting to justify your view and there is no justification for this.. Bioware is completely wrong for forcing us to do 20 ware zones to unlock M1-4X.. There is no argument here and there is no other point of view.. We are being force to do PVP to obtain a PVE objective.. Like I said, it would be like them moving all the ranked PVP gear into the HM Ops.. Then you would be forced to do PVE to gain a PVP objective.. And that would be just as wrong.. It's not really any different than crafted war hero and battlemaster gear shells that require valor to equip. Cosmetics can be gated by whatever they want. Cosmetics are also not PvE, so your assertion that you are PvPing for something PvE related isn't relevant to the discussion. You have other companions that fill the same role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) That isn't entirely true.. What companion is unlocked after M1-4X?? It was my understanding they are setup in a tier.. You can't move on to the next tier until you have an outcome with the previous companion.. They aren't tiered. Only tiered companion is that you have to get a certain companion in the spoiler tag below before you can get the four companions from the Alliance contacts. Yuun has to be unlocked first. Then the rest are currently untiered. All parallel missions. If that changes, I will reassess my stance of course. Edited to be a tad less spoiling. Edited October 26, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) That isn't entirely true.. What companion is unlocked after M1-4X?? It was my understanding they are setup in a tier.. You can't move on to the next tier until you have an outcome with the previous companion.. Being cosmetic or not is irrelevant.. And it is forcing regardless.. I am being told to play PVP against my will in order to unlock this companion.. That is simply wrong.. Again cosmetic or not and you have no right to decide why someone does or does not want unlock him or play PVP.. Reasons are irrelevant.. You are just attempting to justify your view and there is no justification for this.. Bioware is completely wrong for forcing us to do 20 ware zones to unlock M1-4X.. There is no argument here and there is no other point of view.. We are being force to do PVP to obtain a PVE objective.. Like I said, it would be like them moving all the ranked PVP gear into the HM Ops.. Then you would be forced to do PVE to gain a PVP objective.. And that would be just as wrong.. Oh there most definitely is an argument here and just because your tiny brain can't see more than your own point of view doesn't mean that there aren't others. As for your 'tier' comment, we don't yet know that, that is indeed the case, if that turns out to be true, then we can revisit the issue. Otherwise, I think you've finally run out of steam. Also, the definition of forced was posted up on the previous page, I suggest taking a look at it before bemoaning how 'forced' you are to do PvP. Edited October 26, 2015 by Billupsat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 That isn't entirely true.. What companion is unlocked after M1-4X?? It was my understanding they are setup in a tier.. You can't move on to the next tier until you have an outcome with the previous companion.. Being cosmetic or not is irrelevant.. And it is forcing regardless.. I am being told to play PVP against my will in order to unlock this companion.. That is simply wrong.. Again cosmetic or not and you have no right to decide why someone does or does not want unlock him or play PVP.. Reasons are irrelevant.. You are just attempting to justify your view and there is no justification for this.. Bioware is completely wrong for forcing us to do 20 ware zones to unlock M1-4X.. There is no argument here and there is no other point of view.. We are being force to do PVP to obtain a PVE objective.. Like I said, it would be like them moving all the ranked PVP gear into the HM Ops.. Then you would be forced to do PVE to gain a PVP objective.. And that would be just as wrong.. Apparently you are impervious to logic. I have given you the ACTUAL definition of the word "forced" by reference to a source that is independent and authoritative. Yet you still complain that you have been 'forced' to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It's not really any different than crafted war hero and battlemaster gear shells that require valor to equip. Cosmetics can be gated by whatever they want. Cosmetics are also not PvE, so your assertion that you are PvPing for something PvE related isn't relevant to the discussion. You have other companions that fill the same role. I never viewed companions as comsmetic and your views do not dictate to others how they should view their companions.. Seriously you guys.. There is no way you can worm out of this.. We should not be forced to do 20 warzones to unlock a companion.. Cosmetic or otherwise.. There is no argument here.. Bioware should not force us to play PVP.. Nuff said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I never viewed companions as comsmetic and your views do not dictate to others how they should view their companions.. Seriously you guys.. There is no way you can worm out of this.. We should not be forced to do 20 warzones to unlock a companion.. Cosmetic or otherwise.. There is no argument here.. Bioware should not force us to play PVP.. Nuff said.. If nothing else, let me throw some CCs at the problem. "Official Imperial Substitution Allowance. The Imperial in question has been re-evaluated to be too important to risk in basic combat and will be replaced by a substitute of equal combat skill. 500 Cartel Coins." Edited October 26, 2015 by Infernixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Nonsense. We already know the companions that are crucial to the story. The Alliance window clearly marks them as "Main Characters". T7-01 is there, Scorpio is there. Forex? Nope, he's down there in the other category. Next. You are speculating. I am making an inference from the stated facts. The companions core to the story are delineated by the Alliance window. And? In Mass Effect 3 you also got War Assets from the story. Guess what? It wasn't enough! You had to prowl the galaxy to find more! What's to stop Bioware from saying: "Well, in this epic final battle, if you have less than, say, 30 companions in your alliance recruited, everyone dies"? Because that's what happened in ME3, and seeing how hard they work to emulate it, I can smell it coming from Wild Space! And what if to have a total of 30 comps we need to have Forex/Pierce? Then the story is ****ed unless you PvP and what was optional becomes forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I never viewed companions as comsmetic and your views do not dictate to others how they should view their companions.. He isn't your companion. If they were your companion, you don't have to go through any effort beyond a small conversation to get either of them. Otherwise, they were never your companion and they have spelled out what is required to get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I never viewed companions as comsmetic and your views do not dictate to others how they should view their companions.. Seriously you guys.. There is no way you can worm out of this.. We should not be forced to do 20 warzones to unlock a companion.. Cosmetic or otherwise.. There is no argument here.. Bioware should not force us to play PVP.. Nuff said.. Yes there isn't an argument here, Bioware shouldn't force you to PvP. Which is why its an option, as for your denseness and lack of coherency, inability to think logically, I can only assume you were dropped on your head quite a bit as a baby... don't even get me started on that lack of reading comprehension you keep demonstrating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I never viewed companions as comsmetic and your views do not dictate to others how they should view their companions.. Seriously you guys.. There is no way you can worm out of this.. We should not be forced to do 20 warzones to unlock a companion.. Cosmetic or otherwise.. There is no argument here.. Bioware should not force us to play PVP.. Nuff said.. You can apply this argument to literally anything in the game. "I don't want to do X to get Y, so give it to me in the way I want to get it". As long as not having it doesn't stop you from continuing to play the game, there is no reason to change it. Since you don't need this specfic companion to have a companion or to complete the story, there is no argument to be had, simply complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 They aren't tiered. Only tiered companion is that you have to get a certain companion in the spoiler tag below before you can get the four companions from the Alliance contacts. Yuun has to be unlocked first. Then the rest are currently untiered. All parallel missions. If that changes, I will reassess my stance of course. Edited to be a tad less spoiling. Untrue, you need 4 comps recruited to access Doctor Lokin. So what happens if the next recruit by Theron Shan remains locked until Forex is recruited? Right now there isn't any but I can see several Republic only companions that could come through him. Same for Lana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 And? In Mass Effect 3 you also got War Assets from the story. Guess what? It wasn't enough! You had to prowl the galaxy to find more! What's to stop Bioware from saying: "Well, in this epic final battle, if you have less than, say, 30 companions in your alliance recruited, everyone dies"? Because that's what happened in ME3, and seeing how hard they work to emulate it, I can smell it coming from Wild Space! And what if to have a total of 30 comps we need to have Forex/Pierce? Then the story is ****ed unless you PvP and what was optional becomes forced. That's a lot of speculation. If that comes to pass, then I would agree with you. But there is absolutely no evidence that will come to pass and there is evidence to the contrary as I have stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 And? In Mass Effect 3 you also got War Assets from the story. Guess what? It wasn't enough! You had to prowl the galaxy to find more! What's to stop Bioware from saying: "Well, in this epic final battle, if you have less than, say, 30 companions in your alliance recruited, everyone dies"? Because that's what happened in ME3, and seeing how hard they work to emulate it, I can smell it coming from Wild Space! And what if to have a total of 30 comps we need to have Forex/Pierce? Then the story is ****ed unless you PvP and what was optional becomes forced. What ifs and maybes have no place in this discussion, if that happens, feel free to revisit the issue. Because right now, its 110% optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Untrue, you need 4 comps recruited to access Doctor Lokin. So what happens if the next recruit by Theron Shan remains locked until Forex is recruited? Right now there isn't any but I can see several Republic only companions that could come through him. Same for Lana. I have the quest for that companion and have not completed the PvP portion for Pierce/Forex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Untrue, you need 4 comps recruited to access Doctor Lokin. So what happens if the next recruit by Theron Shan remains locked until Forex is recruited? Right now there isn't any but I can see several Republic only companions that could come through him. Same for Lana. Hm if that's true is Tanno Vik counted? Cause I sabered the hell out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Untrue, you need 4 comps recruited to access Doctor Lokin. So what happens if the next recruit by Theron Shan remains locked until Forex is recruited? Right now there isn't any but I can see several Republic only companions that could come through him. Same for Lana. Spoiler tags reveal things: From Dulfy.net: A Kindly Old Monster (Dr.Lokin) Prerequisite: Acquired four companions from the alert system. Major Pierce/M1-4X will count as long as you talk to them even though you may not meet their requirements. So, just talking to them seems to count. So yes, I agree... if down the road it becomes a barrier, I will reassess my stance. Current evidence does not warrant that concern yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Untrue, you need 4 comps recruited to access Doctor Lokin. So what happens if the next recruit by Theron Shan remains locked until Forex is recruited? Right now there isn't any but I can see several Republic only companions that could come through him. Same for Lana. More unjustified speculation. We can assume the devs will act as they have now. Quoting Dulfy's guide: Acquired four companions from the alert system. Major Pierce/M1-4X will count as long as you talk to them even though you may not meet their requirements. What else you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) He isn't your companion. If they were your companion, you don't have to go through any effort beyond a small conversation to get either of them. Otherwise, they were never your companion and they have spelled out what is required to get them. Again.. Irrelevant.. When are you PVP'ers actually going to make a point?? You do not get to decide what is mine or not, nor how I view things.. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.. I do not like to being forced to play PVP.. Case closed.. You have no reply here.. You have no justification... There is no logic you can come up with that trumps this simple concept.. I do not like being forced to play a game in a manner that I don't feel I should.. My reasons are my own and you can agree with them or not.. I never asked for your agreement.. Go ahead.. Get desperate and use what ever symantics and labels you want.. It doesn't change the basic issue here.. All you people have done is hijacked this thread and not allowed a group of people to voice their concern about a single quest in the game.. And you wonder why so many people hate PVP.. It starts with the people.. Edited October 26, 2015 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 More unjustified speculation. We can assume the devs will act as they have now. Quoting Dulfy's guide: What else you got? My guess? More speculation, conjecture, unfounded ME3 comparisons to future unreleased content, the word 'forced' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Again.. Irrelevant.. When are you PVP'ers actually going to make a point?? You do not get to decide what is mine or not, nor how I view things.. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.. I do not like to being forced to play PVP.. Case closed.. You have no reply here.. You have no justification... There is no logic you can come up with that trumps this simple concept.. I do not like being forced to play a game in a manner that I don't feel I should.. My reasons are my own and you can agree with them or not.. I never asked for your agreement.. String out and use what ever symantics and labels you want.. It doesn't change the basic issue here.. All you people have done is hijacked this thread and not allowed group of people to voice their concern.. And you wonder why so many people hate PVP.. It starts with the people.. Not a PvPer, and for the record we've made several points, you're the one losing this debate 'Majik' Edited October 26, 2015 by Billupsat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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