Lack of Community and Depth - Why I believe this game will fail

[TYBERzan]

I agree nice post.

Bioware can do two things.

 

1.Continue on the path they are on .....Keep the game like a single player mmo , players and fanboys will finish it and cry cause nobody is playing it and its dying.

 

2.Make it more like a mmorpg , increase the server size , remove shards and get a community going, that will keep people playing and paying.

 

But if they expect mmorpg fans to pay for what is a single player mmo advertised as a mmorpg then they are sadly mistaken.

 

The fanboys will pay but most wont. And the fanboys are only 10% of the population.

 

I disagree with you on those numbers, most polls conducted by bioware indicate that the kotor and star wars fans make up a larger portion than just mmo players. But I think you guys need to keep your minds open, they are releasing a massive patch NEXT MONTH thats crazy fast, no matter what happens though, I shall never play a non fully voiced mmo anymore, with the voice acting most of the grind feel is removed for me.

[Syylara]

Pre NGE.

 

Box sales , 1 million

 

Subs , less than 200k.

 

Thats over 80% of people that PAID for the game didnt buy it.

 

THAT is why they had an nge in the first place, if pre cu was doing well, it wouldnt ever have happened.

 

Heres another statistic.

 

Barring its launch month, SWG, which until wow was the most expensive MMO made, had less subs than EQ, thats the original EQ , not EQ2 , for its entire life.

 

It was a failure in terms of subs , pretty much from the start, mainly because it was an absolutely broken game at launch, no speeders, no space , broken Jedi system.

It never recovered.

 

The "1 million units" figure they used was for both the base game and the Jump to Lightspeed expansion, which nearly everyone got.

 

This retention rates really weren't out of the pattern of most MMOs at the time. Notice how few companies will put both sales and subscription figures side by side.

[SonicViper]

Troll.

 

Enough said!!

[Jett-Rinn]

Honestly, I don't want it to fail.

 

This game was hyped for YEARS, so it doesn't surprise me that it's making so many initial sales. It's a great single player game much like the original KOTOR was. The entire point of my post was to assess its MULTIPLAYER aspects and how successful it will be as an MMO.

 

People will buy it, people will like it, people will play it. My question is, does it have what it takes to sustain players who want to play an MMO and not a single player game.

 

I honestly think the game will be a massive success with a non traditional market and honestly that is the only way a MMO with a subscription model can succeed today they have to create a new market. There is a giant demographic of CRPG fans that wants a more social experience but doesn't want a Raid or die MMO, then there is a huge amount of Non-raider MMO players that is sick of rush to end game then raid or die add in the Star Wars fans, crafters and casual PVP market and you have a big community that most developers have given the finger to over the past four years.

 

And they have all been begging to shove money in some companies pocket...Bioware was smart enough to take that money. I do know for a fact that Blizzard is in a panic right now...they have taken a really big hit to their casual base and those are the very same peopel they have been trying to win back since the Cataclysm fiasco.

 

So yes I foresee a very bright future for TOR and other MMO's that follow in it's footsteps.

[KnikesBlack]

SWG failed because SOE drove it into the ground and disregarded all user feedback regarding their ridiculous changes. Before that the game was considered successful, at least IMO. It was never as big as WOW and even before the new changes I doubt it had the potential ever even come close to WOW, but it had all of the aspects that I personally think a successful MMO should have.

 

If you're focusing on the success of SWG, you're missing my point. Yes SWTOR is doing great now, plenty of subs, good storyline, bla bla bla. I'm trying to picture what I'll be doing in this game 6 months, one year, two years from now. Maybe the masses will like doing these quests over and over again. I don't know, but I hope something changes. Like many others I've invested a lot of hope in this game over the years and I want to see it in a good light.

 

You guys know that we're not making these threads to try and drive the game into the ground, right? We're trying to get the attention of the devs in hopes that they will notice what we're noticing and start to turn the direction of this game more towards an MMO rather than a single player type game. This game has so much potential, and I want to see it succeed. I just don't think it will in its current state.

Edited December 27, 2011 by KnikesBlack

[FormlessOne]

I’m starting to agree with OP. I’ve waited for this game for such a long a time and as a result really don’t want to, but the gameplay speaks for itself. I can’t think of any reason to stay in a linear universe after the single player element of the MMO is finished. I’ll play for the rest of the month, then I’ll need something new.

 

SWG was a good game before "Smedley's Folly", and unfortunately SWTOR will have to suffer through comparisons between SWG and itself.

 

But, even without comparing it to SWG, this game has some real troubles. Basic features, things that should be in any MMO, just aren't here. For example, if your MMO supports guilds, then there should be something here besides a Guild chat channel - guild banks, guild abilities, a single meeting place exclusive to a guild, something like that.

 

An MMO is supposed to be a social place - yet this is, by far, the loneliest MMO in which I've played. Even talking to each other is a challenge. There's no visual indicator that someone in your area is talking to you (read 'chat bubbles'), and there's no way to move the UI around to bring chat tabs into your field of view. We're forced to stare at the bottom of the screen during much of our gameplay, to observe cooldowns, health, radar, companions, and so on, yet chat is firmly nailed to the top of the screen.

 

If the hype is true, then BioWare's betting the farm on this game - and they've spent a lot of money on it. Voice talent, world design, models, textures, sounds - why, then, didn't they spend more of that money on usability, globalization, or just plain UI development?

 

I honestly hope BioWare's folks came back rested from the holidays, because they have a hell of a lot of work to do to ensure this game makes it past the three-month mark.

[TYBERzan]

I agree nice post.

Bioware can do two things.

 

1.Continue on the path they are on .....Keep the game like a single player mmo , players and fanboys will finish it and cry cause nobody is playing it and its dying.

 

2.Make it more like a mmorpg , increase the server size , remove shards and get a community going, that will keep people playing and paying.

 

But if they expect mmorpg fans to pay for what is a single player mmo advertised as a mmorpg then they are sadly mistaken.

 

The fanboys will pay but most wont. And the fanboys are only 10% of the population.

 

I disagree with you on those numbers, most polls conducted by bioware indicate that the kotor and star wars fans make up a larger portion than just mmo players. But I think you guys need to keep your minds open, they are releasing a massive patch NEXT MONTH thats crazy fast, no matter what happens though, I shall never play a non fully voiced mmo anymore, with the voice acting most of the grind feel is removed for me.

[Lazzerswords]

The planets are extremely linear hallways. I think stranglethorn vale in WOW is bigger than all the palents combined seriously.

 

Crafting is pointless. WOW always had big bad that you heard rumblings when you were leveling. I have no idea what the endgame in swtor is.

 

 

That said Im still having fun. to me this isnt a MMO . More like a single player game with an option for multiplayer.

[GunFive]

SWG was still a massive failure. The game wasn't that great pre CU. Sorry.

 

I dunno I have played many MMO's to many to list big ones being SWG-WoW both Beta and open

 

SWG's original Pre-CU was the best MMO I have played.. yes support and servers might have sucked for awhile (ok the whole time but i still played it from beta to a few months after CU) i have never had so much fun due to the fact you have todo the things the OP is talking about its called a MMO for a reason... not CO-OP mode

[FormlessOne]

I disagree with you on those numbers, most polls conducted by bioware indicate that the kotor and star wars fans make up a larger portion than just mmo players. But I think you guys need to keep your minds open, they are releasing a massive patch NEXT MONTH thats crazy fast, no matter what happens though, I shall never play a non fully voiced mmo anymore, with the voice acting most of the grind feel is removed for me.

 

As a Rift player who's seen 6 expansions in 10 months, no, that's not "crazy fast" - especially when you realize that the "patch" is simply basic functionality they didn't finish for RTM. And they may not even ship all of the basic functionality they didn't finish, either. If next month's "patch" doesn't include significant improvements in the UI, gameplay, guild system, legacy system, and social functionality, it's going to be rough on them.

 

It's not a matter of keeping one's mind open - it's a matter of realizing that there are some good games out there now, like Rift, and some stunning games coming down the pike, like Diablo III and Guild Wars II, and that if BioWare doesn't get their collective asses moving on putting in place what even a basic MMO should have at RTM, this is going to be a very expensive flop. Players have finite amounts of cash, and finite amounts of time, and they tend to move on quickly if they can't spend either well - and, right now, this game isn't much of an MMORPG as it is a single-player, "on rails" MMO with missing features.

[Vaegaknight]

The planets are extremely linear hallways. I think stranglethorn vale in WOW is bigger than all the palents combined seriously.

 

Crafting is pointless. WOW always had big bad that you heard rumblings when you were leveling. I have no idea what the endgame in swtor is.

 

 

That said Im still having fun. to me this isnt a MMO . More like a single player game with an option for multiplayer.

 

What game are you playing?

[Vaegaknight]

As a Rift player who's seen 6 expansions in 10 months, no, that's not "crazy fast" - especially when you realize that the "patch" is simply basic functionality they didn't finish for RTM. And they may not even ship all of the basic functionality they didn't finish, either. If next month's "patch" doesn't include significant improvements in the UI, gameplay, guild system, legacy system, and social functionality, it's going to be rough on them.

 

It's not a matter of keeping one's mind open - it's a matter of realizing that there are some good games out there now, like Rift, and some stunning games coming down the pike, like Diablo III and Guild Wars II, and that if BioWare doesn't get their collective asses moving on putting in place what even a basic MMO should have at RTM, this is going to be a very expensive flop. Players have finite amounts of cash, and finite amounts of time, and they tend to move on quickly if they can't spend either well - and, right now, this game isn't much of an MMORPG as it is a single-player, "on rails" MMO with missing features.

 

Diablo III is not amazing. This makes the rest of your post invalid. They watered the game down to accommodate console play. Enjoy your crapfest.

[Lu_Bei]

When I first played Guild Wars, everyone on the forums were making "I HATE THIS GAME IT WILL FAIL I WANT TO KILL MYSELF" threads. Now Guild Wars 2 is coming out. Edited December 26, 2011 by Lu_Bei

[Rhazz]

Another guy who knows why the game will fail. How original.

[Itose]

SWG is shut down. It failed.

 

And was a different kind of game.

 

"I've used SWG as a comparison because to me it was a game that had all of the basic elements any MMO should possess. "

 

Did you even bother reading his post or just jump straight to the 'reply' button?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Itose

[ObiQuixote]

I think the op made a mistake in using SWG as an example to compare this to, because while I agree with the conclusions about what feels wrong about this game, there are many other single and multilayer games that would have made much better comparisons. Skyrim for example. That game possible has an interface worse than this (PC), but so far it's a much better game in terms of it's open world feel and immersion factor. From the start it was rewarding to explore the world around me instead of being lead down hallway by the nose.

 

As for SWG, probably the buggiest POS game ever made. Never made it beyond the alpha stage of development. Yet it survived 8 years as a subscription game. Think about that, despite being the buggiest most mismanaged MMO project to date, it made money for 8 years and people still loved playing it for years on end. Not many MMO's can claim that.

 

I agree with the OP, I don't think this game will be able to survive. It's just to expensive to develop and maintain. I hope I'm wrong but in my opinion it really feels like it's going to take a Warhammer scale nose dive in about 45 days.

[Bdatik]

The planets are extremely linear hallways. I think stranglethorn vale in WOW is bigger than all the palents combined seriously.

You're just flat out wrong. So wrong that most people will label this statement as trolling.

[Jett-Rinn]

 

I agree with the OP, I don't think this game will be able to survive. It's just to expensive to develop and maintain. I hope I'm wrong but in my opinion it really feels like it's going to take a Warhammer scale nose dive in about 45 days.

 

 

 

Fortunately what you are hoping will happen and what will actually happen are two separate things.

[FormlessOne]

Did you even bother reading his post or just jump straight to the 'reply' button?

 

He's trolling. Ignore him.

[KnikesBlack]

I think the op made a mistake in using SWG as an example to compare this to, because while I agree with the conclusions about what feels wrong about this game, there are many other single and multilayer games that would have made much better comparisons. Skyrim for example. That game possible has an interface worse than this (PC), but so far it's a much better game in terms of it's open world feel and immersion factor. From the start it was rewarding to explore the world around me instead of being lead down hallway by the nose.

 

As for SWG, probably the buggiest POS game ever made. Never made it beyond the alpha stage of development. Yet it survived 8 years as a subscription game. Think about that, despite being the buggiest most mismanaged MMO project to date, it made money for 8 years and people still loved playing it for years on end. Not many MMO's can claim that.

 

I agree with the OP, I don't think this game will be able to survive. It's just to expensive to develop and maintain. I hope I'm wrong but in my opinion it really feels like it's going to take a Warhammer scale nose dive in about 45 days.

 

I specifically tried to avoid comparing this to a single player game. I wanted to compare the single player feel of this game to the multiplayer feel of a real MMO.

[Nussianis]

Honestly, the OP has a point....while some of you are saying this game has a HUGE number of people signing up to play it, doesn't mean it will 6 months from now. Sadly the MMO market is flooded right now, and even though I personally have no interest in Guild Wars 2, there is a LOT of hype flocking around that game, just like this one did before it was released. BW really needs to step it up to keep people interested in this over that, which already seems like steep challenge given the excitement for it.

 

A lot of my friends who have been playing MMO's for years, are disappointed so far the Co-op single player feel this game has going for it so far, on the other hand my friends who are newer to MMO's are loving this game because the single player feel makes them feel more comfortable to the point where people are just turning off general chat because its ruining the experience for them...

 

There is the issue right there, DCUO is a fail train because it only takes about 15 hours to get to max level with a incredible shallow story line to it and the majority of the game is nothing but a end game grind fest of boring raids/alerts that after a week of doing them its no longer any fun its just a chore.

 

On the flip side here we have SWTOR which has an incredibly rich and intricate storyline to it, but sadly so far feels more co-op than MMO. While I like the idea of companions, how many of us have been going into flashpoints with just 1 other person and our 2 NPC companions and doing just fine? I know me and my wife have, so have my co-worker and his buddy from college.

 

Who's to say what will happen to SWTOR 45 days from now, but believe me those of you saying, "If you don't like just leave." You're not helping yourselves here, the DCUO community did that and until it went to a very poor F2P model, they were reduced to 2 servers, a US and EU server with a PvP and PvE phase to them. Because of that, updates and new content stopped because the revenue stream stopped.

 

People were waiting HOURS to get into raids and alerts because there wasn't enough people there because SOE wasn't trying to compromise with the community as a whole. Sure now there is new content, but the community is flooded with people who are more obnoxious and annoying than the people who were actually bringing up valid points when the game 1st came out.

 

 

Just to clarify something, I am very excited to have a story based MMO on the market, rather then WoW and DCUO where I felt my character was, as far as the story was concerned, a person of very little importance and nothing more than a gofor. I just hope BW starts to make grouping something of more value rather than just a means to getting some unimportant social gear.

 

SWTOR has it right so far with the leveling aspect of the game, but when people are turning general chat off because its ruining the single player feel that the game has for them how do you fix that?

Edited December 27, 2011 by Nussianis

[Kazu]

The vocal minority keeps talking about the game failing but it looks like they are pushing close to two million subs already, Gamestops brick and mortar stores won't be getting stock in until late January and they may have to suspend digital sales because the game is growing too fast.

 

But yeah failzor is written all over it.

 

 

yeah and when they all realize that after you're done with your first rep and imp character you have nothing more to do since the only replay value is the different classes story line which represent less then 10% of the 1 to 50 experience and not worth doing the same hundreds of borings quests they will all quit.

[Amanzuul]

The reason people turn the chat off while experiencing the storyline of the game is so we don't have to read the trolls telling us all why they think the game sucks or is going to fail. Who wants to see that while you are experiencing the game? Pay $50 for the game and $15/month to watch self proclaimed MMO experts spout their tripe about the game?

 

Time will tell if SWTOR has the staying power of other famous MMO's. I hardly think that less than a week into it you can draw any conclusions. The communities on the servers will take some time to sort themselves out, not everyone knows who the helpful players are and who the trolls are yet. Myself I have witnessed a very talkative group of players on "The Constant" and lots of groups form for all kinds of aspects of the game.

 

This game has what others I feel have been missing, a direct feel and connection with the character you are playing. You hear them talk, you can select your responses, and this impacts your play. And companions add a feature I have not seen in other MMO's making the tedious part of crafting and gathering far less so. And who hasn't felt the thrill of making a lightsaber, or joining the great hunt, or killing your master? Just today I got my ship on my Jedi Consular, WOW!!!! what a rush.

 

I am guessing though none of what has been written here is really going to change anyone's mind on what they think of the game. Those who love it will continue to love it, those who hate it will leave, and those who get bored with it probably get bored with everything else out there or they wouldn't be playing this game.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Amanzuul

[Nussianis]

The reason people turn the chat off while experiencing the storyline of the game is so we don't have to read the trolls telling us all why they think the game sucks or is going to fail. Who wants to see that while you are experiencing the game? Pay $50 for the game and $15/month to watch self proclaimed MMO experts spout their tripe about the game?

 

Been on a lot of servers and not once have I ever seen chat filled with people saying how bad this game is. Only during open beta did I see that.

[DigitalDigital]

I agree nice post.

Bioware can do two things.

 

1.Continue on the path they are on .....Keep the game like a single player mmo , players and fanboys will finish it and cry cause nobody is playing it and its dying.

 

2.Make it more like a mmorpg , increase the server size , remove shards and get a community going, that will keep people playing and paying.

 

But if they expect mmorpg fans to pay for what is a single player mmo advertised as a mmorpg then they are sadly mistaken.

 

The fanboys will pay but most wont. And the fanboys are only 10% of the population.

 

completely agree.

I was thinking, sweet! millions of people are going to be playing, it's going to have a Great community! NOPE! it's empty and dead inside the game, it's a single player game... it's so disappointing to me, I was so excited to be part of a huge community, not a zone/world with 50ish people.... it's really SO DISAPOINTING!!